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 You Must Like Your Daily Sex
Smooth 165 posts, incept 2020-03-26
2020-05-18 21:15:06

"Yeah, be careful with Vitamin D supplementation. It is entirely possible to overdo that and if you do it's VERY, VERY BAD. This is NOT Vitamin C where taking too much just means you******it out and, in the extreme case, you get the ****s."

Vitamin D is extremely hard to overdose on. It will take well north of 10,000 IU per day for many weeks to even come close.
M1919a2 862 posts, incept 2015-07-18
2020-05-18 21:38:20

Whether you have the letters MD or JD after your name - the common denominator is PRACTICE of ...

As I have said to my numerous MDs the above, with emphasis that PRACTICE is exactly what you and I both have done because ... drum roll please ...

Neither of us know what the hell we are doing, we're just PRACTICING!!!!!

If you have problems with that ...

Just saying

Reason: were and we're is not the same
Smacktle 8k posts, incept 2009-01-20
2020-05-19 06:11:57

So sick of all this.


I don't care what the Japs do.

Use your Ticker Balls
Tritumi 2k posts, incept 2008-11-29
2020-05-19 06:12:03

@Mangymutt, thanks for your comments. Cultural norms are, as Karl has stressed, extremely important in how this has developed and how it is playing out. Your notes on Japanese homogeneity are spot on. The diversity conflict dynamic is marginal at best here. The reflex antiauthoritarianism also. "The nail that sticks up gets hammered." is well understood here. For my part, it is "when in Rome, do as the Romans do."

When I was in NYC in mid-March, folks were just beginning to realize what was happening. Some on the subways wore masks and gloves. I had no sense whatsoever that these folks were signaling anything to do with social justice mongering. Since I wasn't wearing masks, just using sanitizer, early adopters is what I figured they were.

Once artifacts are politicized, of course, there is no denaturing the symbolism with which they are freighted. Thus masks, headscarfs, Maga hats, and other nearer-my-god-to-thee regalia become more important for their message than for their inherent value or lack thereof. Fortunately, I never watched US news, other than CSpan, so I can claim lack of meme infection, so to speak.

More and more I hear echoes of Kurt Vonnegut. So it goes. Thanks again.
Spence 5k posts, incept 2009-09-11
2020-05-19 06:12:20

M1919a2 wrote..
Clearly, you will have a reaction/comment on this report at Breitbart and Fox Business Cavuto's reaction.

I saw that Cavuto rant live. What an idiot. Never liked that guy.
Emg 598 posts, incept 2012-11-20
2020-05-19 06:12:35


"Nursing homes account for 81 percent of the countrys covid-19 deaths, according to Theresa Tam, Canadas chief public health officer, a far greater proportion than in the United States."

So we've literally wrecked our economy because nursing homes won't stop the disease spreading.
Spence 5k posts, incept 2009-09-11
2020-05-19 06:12:43

M1919a2 wrote..
Clearly, you will have a reaction/comment on this report at Breitbart and Fox Business Cavuto's reaction.

Sheesh, I saw that Cavuto rant live. What an idiot. Never liked that guy.
Mannfm11 9k posts, incept 2009-02-28
2020-05-19 06:12:49

M1919a2: Neal Cavuto is destined for CNN.

The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Magus 3k posts, incept 2008-05-04
2020-05-19 07:42:35

Three reasons for the TP shortage 1) as has been noted, 40% of TP was consumed at work. Takes a bit of time to retool for packaging/quality and you have to be sure Its worth it (is not a very temporary swap). 2) its bulky and heavy, which means its expensive relatively to ship compared to other items on the truck, especially long distances. This why I have had very limited trouble finding it in Charlotte where several firms have d/cs but my friends and relatives elsewhere cant find it. 3) people are hoarding. I think my wife and I have enough for nearly a year at the moment. Just a small amount of space in our garage and laundry room.

"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of f
Pika-steph 57k posts, incept 2007-09-11
2020-05-19 13:05:14

I'm going to disagree vehemently with the information regarding vitamin D SUPPLEMENTS. The "science" behind D supplements are as faulty and rigged as climate change. It is NOT difficult to overdose. I nearly died in 2017 from my doctor having our entire family on 10,000 IU/day for about 3 years. My kidneys were failing, my blood pressure had gone from normal all my life to 280/190 (no, I'm not kidding you) and one night, out of the blue, I started having grand mal seizures...

For an entire year, I was in and out of hospitals and even went to Cleveland Clinic when no doctors had any answers. They ALL found nothing "wrong" with me to have caused all this, but they had plenty of pills to give me, BP meds, anti-seizure meds, beta blockers....I was headed for dialysis and complete kidney failure and no one could tell me why. I think all told I probably saw more than 35 different doctors in more than 8 specialties. Not a single one thought there was anything wrong with the D supplements I was taking, and they all encouraged me to keep taking them.

My 25(OH)D was 47. My doctor and all the doctors who saw me thought I was till low. Some of them wanted to RAISE my D supplements. The only blood test that was coming back out of range was serum calcium - and of a range between 8.5 and 10.2 (Quest) mine was 10.3 to 10.5. No one thought this was of concern, nor did they relate it to my problems. My parathyroid testing was normal (PTH).

Now I'm going to tell you a secret: 25(OH)D is an INACTIVE MOLECULE! 25(OH)D is what every doctor tests and by which they judge "deficiency" and by which they based the test upon that @Tickerguy references above regarding correlation to morbidity and severity of COVID. AN INACTIVE MOLECULE HAS ZERO INFLUENCE ON THE IMMUNE SYSTEM. Yes, you have all believed a lie and your doctor has bought it hook, line and sinker because allopathic doctors have no time for research beyond what is presented in their quarterly subscription publications. There is, like most scams, someone getting very rich off of this lie, his name is Dr. Michael Holick and the NYT actually did an expose on him in 2018, which was very quickly spiked. It went right to archives nearly immediately.

Vitamin D: Shadowy Money Behind It

Vitamin D, the Sunshine Supplement, Has Shadowy Money Behind It
The doctor most responsible for creating a billion-dollar juggernaut has received hundreds of thousands of dollars from the vitamin D industry.

Aug. 18, 2018
New York Times (archive):

Of course, I didn't know this when I was fighting for my life; it was presented to me by a scientist who was introduced to me by someone who had recognized my symptoms. Jim is a very prominent researcher who once worked with Nobel Prize recipient Kary Mullis (who ironically developed the PCR test being widely used to diagnose COVID and is entirely NOT designed to do such a thing). Jim taught me that 25(OH)D is an inactive molecule AND he taught me the things that saved my life: There's another measure of D and that D3 is ONLY ONE MOLECULE of a substances with MANY, most of which regulate calcium in the body and NONE of which can be found in the supplement - the calcium regulation/protection metabolites are created ONLY through synthesis on the skin. Imagine taking an isolated molecule the SOLE purpose of which is to raise serum calcium. In its natural form, it has dozens of other co-created metabolites that protect the body from the dangerous effects of high calcium. But in its supplemental, isolated form NONE OF THOSE PROTECTIONS EXIST! THIS is what people are doing by taking D3. This is what doctors are prescribing to their patients, chasing an arbitrary, made up number they claim represents the 'ideal' level of an INACTIVE MOLECULE. Does this sound at all smart?

I will quote from one of his myriad of papers on the subject:

Ok. They convinced you to take D3. May be you convinced yourself looking at all the science that blamed low serum 25D for most human illness. As Ive said before numerous times thats biologically impossible unless it resulted in a lack of 1,25D.

Now they will acknowledge this molecule, 1,25D exists, and may be even that its the end goal yet they still will want to talk you out of testing it.

Do you know the difference between the D3, the 25D, and the 1,25D?

25D is hydroxyvitamin D. Its been hydroxylated once. By the liver. Its stored there.

1,25D is dihydroxyvitamin D. Its been hydroxylated two times. By the liver and then sent to the kidneys. Its an ACTIVE molecule. Has a diurnal rhythm and an 8-12 hour half life.

For 99% of you the story ends there. Sadly. In fact that will include most doctors.

But the 1,25D is an ACTIVE SUBSTRATE to make...........wait for it.............

The TRIHYDROXYVITAMIN D molecules. Here are some.

17,20,23(OH)3D3, 1,20,23(OH)3D3, 1,20,22(OH)3D3, 1,20,24(OH)3D3, 1,20,25(OH)3D3, 1,20,26(OH)3D3.

And a host of dihydroxyvitamin D molecules as well, unknown to the masses.


A couple bonus unknown hydroxys for good measure.

The ones that REALLY matter. 20(OH)D3 is your naturally produced sunscreen.

Time to realize the true level of the scam. Every single molecule I listed in this post you make ON THE SKIN directly from UBV exposure. THEY CANNOT BE MADE FROM AN ORAL SUPPLEMENT. Unfortunately, we do not yet have a way to measure their levels in the human body.

I will apologize in advance for the problems Im creating for you with your Doctor. Your body will thank us.

Here is an article by Stephanie Seneff, PHD who is a very prominent scientist/researcher at MIT, which further explains the MASSIVE difference between D supplements and the sun. I encourage everyone who is seeing this to read this. We have been lied to about sunscreen (another multi-billion dollar business).

Sunlight and Vitamin D: Theyre Not the Same Thing


Sulfate synthesis in the skin captures the suns energy. Adequate sunlight exposure to both the skin and the eyes is vital to our long-term health.

Among other functions, sulfate supports blood vessel health, the bodys electrical supply and the delivery system for important molecules such as cholesterol, vitamin D, dopamine and melatonin.

Evidence indicates that sunlight protects against cancer, heart disease, hypertension and bone fractures.

The benefits of sunlight exposure are about much more than vitamin D.

Many studies show that vitamin D supplementation cannot reproduce sunlights health benefits. Moreover, excessive vitamin D supplementation can aggravate systemic sulfate deficiency, which will drive calcium buildup in the arteries.

Both sunscreen and glyphosate interfere with synthesis and production of melaninthe bodys natural mechanism of sun protection. Aluminum in sunscreen disrupts sulfate synthesis. These disruptions may explain why melanoma prevalence has steadily risen in tandem with the increased use of higher sun-protection-factor sunscreens over the past two decades.

We have been brainwashed into believing that the sun is toxic, whereas in fact it is life-giving. I am a great fan of sunlight exposure to both the skin and the eyes. The sun has been a resource for Planet Earth since the beginning of time, and biological organisms evolved with a constant supply of energy they could count on every day with the rising sun. Plants use the energy of sunlight to convert inorganic carbon into organic matter, with the help of chlorophyll. Why would animals ignore such an obvious energy source? Just as plants need sunlight to grow, sunlight plays an essential role in energizing animals, including humans.

I believe that the mechanism with which we safely exploit the suns energy is through the oxidation of sulfur to sulfate, with the help of cholesterol. This reaction takes place in the skincatalyzed by sunlightand it is vital to our long-term health.

Read more complete with an enormous list of research references and studies:

And another article highlighting the massive harm being done by sunscreen:

Is Sunscreen the New Margarine?

Current guidelines for sun exposure are unhealthy and unscientific, controversial new research suggestsand quite possibly even racist. How did we get it so wrong?

These are dark days for supplements. Although they are a $30-plus billion market in the United States alone, vitamin A, vitamin C, vitamin E, selenium, beta-carotene, glucosamine, chondroitin, and fish oil have now flopped in study after study.

If there was one supplement that seemed sure to survive the rigorous tests, it was vitamin D. People with low levels of vitamin D in their blood have significantly higher rates of virtually every disease and disorder you can think of: cancer, diabetes, obesity, osteoporosis, heart attack, stroke, depression, cognitive impairment, autoimmune conditions, and more. The vitamin is required for calcium absorption and is thus essential for bone health, but as evidence mounted that lower levels of vitamin D were associated with so many diseases, health experts began suspecting that it was involved in many other biological processes as well.

And they believed that most of us werent getting enough of it. This made sense. Vitamin D is a hormone manufactured by the skin with the help of sunlight. Its difficult to obtain in sufficient quantities through diet. When our ancestors lived outdoors in tropical regions and ran around half naked, this wasnt a problem. We produced all the vitamin D we needed from the sun.

But today most of us have indoor jobs, and when we do go outside, weve been taught to protect ourselves from dangerous UV rays, which can cause skin cancer. Sunscreen also blocks our skin from making vitamin D, but thats OK, says the American Academy of Dermatology, which takes a zero-tolerance stance on sun exposure: You need to protect your skin from the sun every day, even when its cloudy, it advises on its website. Better to slather on sunblock, weve all been told, and compensate with vitamin D pills.

Yet vitamin D supplementation has failed spectacularly in clinical trials. Five years ago, researchers were already warning that it showed zero benefit, and the evidence has only grown stronger. In November, one of the largest and most rigorous trials of the vitamin ever conductedin which 25,871 participants received high doses for five yearsfound no impact on cancer, heart disease, or stroke.

Read the rest with copious links to resources, studies and references:

But, but, but you might be thinking, I feel so much better when I take D supplements. Sure you do, because D3 is a secosteroid it acts in the body precisely the same way that taking prednisone acts. For people with chronic pain, auto-immune (an over active immune system), it SHUTS IT DOWN! This is why D3 can be used in a controlled manner TEMPORARILY to tamp down a cytokine storm. D is an immunosuppressant. This from a biologist who has been doing research into controlling auto-immune disorders for many years.

Vitamin D supplements are immunosuppressive

For many years, vitamin D supplements have been recommended in high quantities for patients with a range of problems. However, this article describes how the most recent high-quality studies on vitamin D supplementation no longer support such claims. Nevertheless, many patients who take vitamin D supplements still report feeling better. This begs the question: Why!?

It is important to take a closer look at vitamin D. The various forms of vitamin D are not actually vitamins in the traditional sense. Instead, all forms of vitamin D are secosteroids, sharing a close structural and functional resemblance to steroids.

My research, done in conjunction with the non-profit foundation Autoimmunity Research Foundation, suggests that, when taken as a supplement, the secosteroid vitamin D acts in a manner similar to that of other steroid-based medications. These medications, such as prednisone, work by slowing the activity of the immune system.

Other studies additionally support the possibility that the form of vitamin D derived from food and supplements 25-hydroxyvitamin D or 25-D is immunosuppressive. Several studies show that 25-D slows the activity of immune system proteins and blood cells. Researchers studying the effects of 25-D in patients with multiple sclerosis have concluded that vitamin D has multiple immunosuppressant properties and that, on the whole, vitamin D confers an immunosuppressive effect.

Immunosuppressive medications or substances have been shown to successfully palliate symptoms in the short-term, but have negative effects on a patients long-term health. One reason for this is that any medication that slows the immune response allows pathogens in the microbiome to better survive. This can promote the dysbiosis or imbalance of the microbiome often observed in inflammatory disease.

When autoimmune disease was thought to result from the immune system attacking self, immunosuppressant medications were believed to help control this overactive immune response. However, as I describe here, the theory of autoimmunity is being re-evaluated. It is now more likely that autoimmune disease results from infectious processes and microbiome dysbiosis.

Read the rest here:

Link to study:

And here is one more thing, the active form of vitamin D, the one that really counts, which is never measured 1,25(OH)D, is controlled entirely by gene expression. You may have been wondering about "VDR" mentioned in some of the above articles, his is "vitamin D receptor". These little receptors are one of the most powerful in the body. They turn on and off in response to sun exposure and your own genetic makeup, which is mainly a matter of geographical evolution.

What is further extremely dangerous about D3 supplementation is that once the body becomes saturated with this isolated molecule, the ratio of all the other metabolites is thrown off and in a desperate attempt to modulate the effects of this (not the least of which is kidney damage) the VDRs will take over other receptors in the body, most notably, cortisol, and thyroid. Take any amount of D for very long and you end up with slowing thyroid function. Oh, but I'm just gaining weight because I'm getting older....everyone does. And everyone gets massive amounts of D3 supplementation if they eat any dairy, couple that with the copious amount of supplements sold and pushed....well...there's a whole lot of thyroid issues that are subclinical and usually undiagnosed because it is T3, the thyroid function never measured by most doctors that is severely inhibited.

If you're interested in how VDR and gene expression works, here's just one study:

The Vitamin D Receptor: New Paradigms for the Regulation of Gene Expression by 1,25-Dihydroxyvitamin D3

Last but not least, that pill you're putting in your mouth and that additive to our dairy is a synthetic molecule manufactured from industrialized oil obtained from sheep's wool. It has a half-life of just under 30 days. This is one of the longest half-lives known and it is stored in the fat tissues after ingestion. This means that it takes a year and a half for that pill you took to be unmeasureable in your body. This is why it has taken me so very long to even be out of the woods. To get back to "pre-D supplement health," if I ever can, will take about 4 years from when I stopped the supplements.

Veterinarians have known of the actions of D3 for a very long time and it is DEADLY to small animals. It destroys the kidneys and causes severe renal potassium wasting. (This, BTW is precisely what happened to me and I still suffer from renal potassium wasting 2+ years on.)

Merck Veterinary Manual Describing Cholecalciferol Poisoning:

Information provided by a corporation that manufacturers cholecalciferol (D3) for BOTH rat/animal poison AND human supplements. They actually ADMIT is is poisonous to ALL living things. Think about that: They manufacture it for both 'supplementation' and poisons - in the same facility!

What is frightening is many pet food companies are now putting it in pet food! In cats in particular who are prone to urinary and kidney issues, this is shortening their lives substantially! Not to mention, there have been numerous recalls because of pets dying from too much D3 in the food. "Too much" is relative since NONE should be in pet food (or our dairy for that matter)!

While this video is quite simplistic and over-general, the premise is true with regards to the actions of isolated D3 supplements:

I could go on and on here. This was the reason I was absent from TF for long time. I was nearly dead. My husband has kidney damage and my son has heart damage from the D supplements our former doctor had us taking. I was the worst off, however and nearly had kidney failure. It took finding a holistic physician (who I have mentioned a few times in The Bar) and his running a 1,25(OH) test and something called an ionized calcium test. The latter measures calcium through the entire body and mine was so high, Quest could not give it a definitive number other than to say it was out of range of their ability to measure it. Keep in mind, as I mentioned above, this was at the same time my SERUM calcium was barely higher than the normal range! The body will literally destroy itself trying to keep serum minerals in a very, very tight range. Suffice it to say, tests for serum mineral levels are absolutely no advance warning of impending doom as when a mineral imbalance finally appears in the serum, you can be assured that elsewhere your situation is very dire. For measurements of potassium and magnesium the RBC test (red blood cell) is far more informative and instructive for the purposes of maintaining health. Likewise ionized calcium gives far more information, much earlier than serum calcium.

For all intents and purposes I should be dead - and mind you, my D level, that was commonly measured was only 47. Doctors have deemed the ideal level of 25(OH)D to be 60-80. If I had continued to try to get there, I would assuredly be dead now. My diagnosis: Severe hypervitaminosis D and acute hypercalcemia. The D supplements had stripped more than half the calcium from my bones due to the massive demand the D3 was making for calcium.

I have clawed my way back over the past 3 years, but I have a long way to go. At this point I am grateful that my blood pressure is back to normal and I have not had a seizure in almost 2 years. I am taking no pharmaceuticals when not long ago I was taking more than a dozen. Also along the way, I discovered I am not alone; that vitamin D overdose is far from rare, it's just not recognized and appears as other things that are so very common like high blood pressure and low thyroid function. I also found a Facebook support group that has over 25,000 people ALL recovering from D supplement toxicity and another group which has over 185,000 members at least a third of which are also recovering from D supplement issues of one sort or another.

I also am going to give credit to @Tickerguy for turning us all on to LCHF 8+ years ago. That has been my WOE all this time and IT is the SINGLE REASON that I do not have massive calcium deposits in my heart and arteries. It is the SINGLE REASON I did not have a stroke when my blood pressure was so very high. It is the SINGLE REASON I have a Coronary Calcium Score of ZERO. Besides finding Jim and my holistic doctor, Karl's advice to eat LCHF is probably the reason I'm still alive. HIGH INSULIN/GLUCOSE AND HIGH CALCIUM TOGETHER ARE GUARANTEED DEATH! In that regard, whenever I see this false information, fraudulent science and complete misunderstanding of the mechanism of D, I feel compelled to speak out because it may save someone's life.

Do understand that this is the briefest of summaries I could possibly present regarding what I know about Hormone D. There is much, much more to this powerful hormone as you might guess from the above list of metabolites. If anyone wants to know more, please feel free to reach out, I can provide much more information.

"Obama is the dark-center of the anal fissure of a chancre infested, hemorrhoid laden asshole preparing to pucker and spew endless jets of diarrhea."--Chthonic

Reason: Fixed URLs, grammar, spelling...ugh
Ebt 370 posts, incept 2018-12-22
2020-05-19 14:24:28


I believe all you say, I guess I don't know as much as I think I do.
I take 2000 iu in a multi, and another 2000 to get to 4000. Maybe I'll stop the 2nd 2000 and just be fine with the multi. My understanding is the K2 + Vit A + magnesium all work together....and at a reasonable its a positive, not a negative.

I knew too much D3 could be dangerous, but never realized it was to that extent.

Pika-steph 57k posts, incept 2007-09-11
2020-05-19 15:34:17

@Ebt - A lot of people think taking K2 will keep the "calcium in check". Not true when taking an isolated molecule of a dozen+ molecule substance. Not true when you are basically eliminating all calcium modulation by not creating those metabolites - which are only created ON THE SKIN.

If you have been taking D for any length of time I will warn you that stopping will create very unpleasant side effects. Detox is a real thing. However, your body will thank you in the long run.

Vitamin A is the other big fat soluble nutrient, but unlike D is not created by the body at all. A in its preformed state, retinol, must be obtained from diet, only found in ANIMAL sources, and the current daily requirements are wholly inadequate. Beta carotene is not vitamin A - as it must be converted by the body into retinol and even the very best converters can only convert 2%.

What's ironic is that retinol is the true immune system controller and it, along with its backup storage in the liver, are completely destroyed by D3 supplements (NOT by D metabolites synthesized by the sun). My vitamin A was critically low. I am still working to bring it back up. The destruction of vitamin A in the liver is the primary cause of the severe thyroid function impairment caused by taking D3 supplements.

"Obama is the dark-center of the anal fissure of a chancre infested, hemorrhoid laden asshole preparing to pucker and spew endless jets of diarrhea."--Chthonic
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