There's An Off Ramp - But It Has A Price
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2021-08-31 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Editorial , 4370 references Ignore this thread
There's An Off Ramp - But It Has A Price*
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The Israel data has told us both what pharma did, what they probably knew, but also how to get out of the box.

And yes, there's a way out of the box.

A reminder: The spike protein that is part of Covid-19, and which all the current vaccines instruct your body to produce is, by itself, pathogenic.  This was first published as a pre-print, it came out before we went on a wild jabbing spree, the original study that set off the alarm bells came in September of 2020 and when the study work was done it was dismissed by many as being "not peer reviewed" (who remember, endorsed a whole bunch of other bull**** such as masks, denial of early treatments and so on.)

Well, that excuse is gone now.  Two articles, both now published, and which I originally discussed as pre-prints before we mass-jabbed people are now out in public and published form here and here.

Both demonstrate quite-conclusively that the spike protein alone, absent the rest of Covid-19 "the virus", is pathogenic.

Again, in case you missed it further up near the top, all of the current vaccines deliberately produce that spike protein, which by itself causes disease, specifically clotting-related disease, in your body.  Deliberately causing your body to produce that pathogen (which then elicits the antibody response) is how all of them work.

This means there is no safe way to vaccinate against this disease because introducing the spike into your body, no matter how you do it, inherently runs the risk of serious clotting-based disorders.  You might or might not get nailed but there is no avoiding the risk.  That same risk is what kills you, most of the time, if you actually get Covid-19 and die but the premise that you avoid that risk when taking a jab is a lie.  You cannot; the risk is inherent in introducing the spike into your circulation and there is no way around that with an IM injection because the muscles of the body are very well-perfused (that is, there's a lot of blood flow in them) even if the person who performs the injection does not hit a blood vessel, and they might.

These facts are not up for debate on a scientific basis any longer.  They also fully explain the myocarditis, pericarditis and myriad other so-called "rare" events that occur with these jabs such as strokes, heart attacks and other clotting-based disorders.  In addition the data is that the 2nd shot in the 2-shot series is much more dangerous than the first, which implies an exponential expansion of risk. 

Whether that expansion of risk bleeds back off over a couple of months or so is entirely unknown as it has not been studied.  Without a data set of hundreds of thousands (so as to get statistical significance) and both baseline and follow-up d-Dimer testing, at minimum, we will never be able to put numbers on this, nor get a decay rate on the risk if it decays, and nobody is doing those studies.

That's the bad news; if you take repeated shots and the risk does not bleed off then eventually you will kill yourself.  If, for example, the risk on the first shot is 1/100,000 (extremely rare), on the second 1/10,000 (that's a bad pattern) and the risk does not bleed off over the space of three or four months then the risk from the third is 1/1,000 (that's 0.1% and quite nasty) while the risk from a fourth jab rises to 1% at which point you're in the ballpark for a severely morbid person when it comes to Covid-19 infection itself killing them.  The fifth jab would put the risk of getting screwed at ten percent, which is approximately the rate of death from the original SARS and the sixth would be odds-on as literal suicide.

How many jabs did you say you're willing to risk taking again?

You cannot get your health back if you ruin it by being stupid.  The younger you are the worse the risk is in terms of years of enjoyable life lost.  To take that sort of risk when you're 85, fat, diabetic, you have an almost-10% risk of death in the next year from all causes  and the Coof is 10% likely to kill you is very different than to take that same risk to your health when you're 17, male, have a BMI under 25, there's not a damn thing wrong with you medically, your all-cause risk of death (most of it by violence) is 7/10,000 and your risk, by the CDC's numbers, of Covid-19 killing you if infected is approximately 1/100,000.

No two people are the same in terms of risk and medical status but this much is certain: That anyone is contemplating, say much less jabbing, the public with a now proved pathogen on a repeated basis without doing this scientific work first is worthy of immediate and summary execution as if they're wrong people are going to die in huge numbers as a direct result of that willful blindness, advocacy and action.

We knew all of the above before the first of 2021 and before any material number of jabs went into arms.  What were dismissed as "pre-print" follies have now been published formally and have turned into scientific fact

Never mind the now-documented risk of evasion and even enhancement due to ordinary viral mutation.  This too is now scientific fact.  There is no possible way to reformulate and re-jab everyone fast enough to stay ahead of this; even Pfizer's CEO has said it will take 95 days to reformulate their jab and then you must produce and deliver it, which of course cannot happen with the flick of a wand.  The virus can and does mutate faster than you can adapt the jabs to it which means you are now taking risk without benefit since the odds of evasion to each "new" formulation you work on during the time in question approach 100%, especially if you test the new versions for excess risks unlike the original trials.  Like it or not that's the data; Mother Nature is faster than we are and there's nothing we can do about it.

But remember, I said we also now know there is an exit ramp, and there is.  That knowledge is newly-developed and can greatly limit the damage if we use it instead of, once again, denying scientific fact and continue down a road that we now have every reason to believe, based on the data currently available, is very likely to lead to ruin for hundreds of thousands or even millions of Americans.

When the trials were being done last fall I found it utterly astonishing that both Moderna and Pfizer had set their dosing to produce extremely high antibody titers -- 10x, 100x or more than produced by natural infection.  That looked at the time to have been a truncated series of dose:response trials undertaken in the interest of Warp Speed; that is, "be fast rather than accurate."  Obviously you do not want to err on the low side (you get no protection) so if you're going to screw it up the direction to do so is on the high side, assuming toxicity at that level is reasonable  It turns out the decision wasn't reasonable, however, because doing that wildly increased the risk of the above reactions, since to produce that sort of high antibody titer you needed to put more spike into the body and we now know the spike, standing alone, is dangerous.  (Incidentally the CDC still claims the spike is harmless, despite two peer-reviewed and published papers documenting otherwise and all the in-field adverse events which dovetail exactly with what those papers describe.)

But, as Israel has now shown with conclusive data antibody titers from vaccination wane at 40% a month while those from infection decrease at a much slower rate and in fact broaden in terms of recognition to the virus over time.

Why?

The broadening is indicative of B-cell recall, which is utterly crucial for lasting immunity.  Antibodies do not circulate forever in the blood and other tissues; they eventually degrade and are replaced -- if your body's immune system has been trained.  Your B-cells are largely responsible for this, along with T-cells and a whole cadre of other components of the immune system.  This is why monoclonal antibody infusions protect you right now, when infected, but do not provide lasting immunity on their own.  The infection itself does, but not the infusion.  If you give the infusion to a non-infected person you wasted it; they have protection for a short period of time but it goes away.

The evidence from these now-published decay rates is that B-cell training does not happen with any of these vaccines.  This is important and, it would appear, both Pfizer and Moderna (along with J&J) either knew or should have known this.  In fact they all may have deliberately rigged their studies to be submitted for EUAs knowing the failure to produce a durable immune response was not going to be discovered due to time considerations.  This cannot be proved without a bevvy of subpoenas of course but it is a reasonable and rational explanation for setting the dose and produced titer where they all did.

You can bet the vaccine makers will all do everything in their power to evade disclosure of what they knew and when in this regard because if in fact they knew that B-cell induction did not happen and deliberately set dosing to produce a result intended to game the EUA process that is quite-arguably intentional misconduct which is the bar that must be cleared to void their legal immunity for all of the adverse events PLUS all those who got infected as the defectively-produced immunity waned.

Consider a 40% per month decay rate for these injections and a natural infection that produces a titer of "100" (units don't matter for this purpose, nor does the actual number -- just the ratio.)

If the jab produces an original titer of 1,000 (10x as much) you get the following titer level on a monthly basis for the jabs:

0: 1,000
1: 600
2: 360
3: 216
4: 129
5: 77 
6: 46

At six months you're probably below the protection threshold.  Note that it takes 12 months, starting from 100 with a 5% monthly decay for natural infection, to reach the same titer.

So why does the titer decay so much slower if you get infected?  Simple: It doesn't actually go away; natural infection trains your B-cells which is a durable response and thus capable of immediately restoring protection if you get challenged with the virus again, which you will.  This is why the Cleveland Clinic, following their employees who got infected, found zero re-infections over more than a year's time among more than 1,000 infected and recovered individuals.  It is also why a recent study found that natural infection and recovery was 13x as protective as the jabs.

This is how every other virus works and with natural infection by this virus most of the titer is to the "N" protein which cannot mutate materially and still be a virus capable of infecting and replicating in humans.  The vaccines do not include any part of the "N" protein and thus cannot produce a response to it.  In other words all of the "escape" and even "enhancement" concerns with the vaccines don't happen if you get naturally infected and beat the bug.

This is, incidentally, why humans and all other animals exist on this rock; our immune system has evolved over millennia to prefer targeting future protection, post-infection and recovery, toward the parts of a virus that don't change very much if at all.  In addition that recall capacity frequently migrates into the marrow where it becomes decades-long if not permanent and we already know that happens with Covid-19 because a small study was done that proved it.  These parts of the immune system and actions by it confer a survival advantage and thus were naturally selected for over the space of hundreds of thousands or even millions of years.  Disbelieving that which is the very reason you survived your first few months after being born, and why humans and all other animals exist, is flat-out stupid.

The vaccines, it appears, fail to produce this B-cell response; that is a very reasonable explanation for why their antibody titers decay so fast.  The manufacturers may have known this, which if true explains why they set the dosing where they did.  Had they set dosing to produce a titer equivalent to natural infection within three months protection, by the Israel data, would have all but disappeared and the EUA-generating trials would have failed as there would have been no statistical difference in infection rates between those who got the actual shot and placebo by the end of the trial.

The bad part of this decay is being seen now with Mental Midget Fauci and others arguing over the "need" to get a third, fourth and so on jab and on what interval that will be required.  Since we do not know if the risk of adverse events from those jabs compound on an exponential basis it is flat-out insane to suggest such a path forward even absent the antibody to circulating strain mismatch which we also know is a serious concern and raises the risk of both OAS and vaccine-driven enhancement of disease along with simple evasion of the antibody protection.

But the fact that B-cell recall appears to not be generated by the jab also means you can exit the jab highway and, while you will take a materially-higher risk of adverse outcome from infection than an unvaccinated person for a period of time, likely six to twelve months, it is not a lifetime risk since that mismatched B-cell training which would have screwed you on a durable basis did not, by the data thus far, happen.

Some of this is hypothesis at this point in time -- but it is a reasonable hypothesis as to what happened, why it happened, and what we had better do before we allow the wanton re-jabbing of people on an on-going basis with shots that intentionally produce a known-dangerous condition, by the now peer-reviewed science, in the human body.

First and foremost we must stop treating recovered people as if they need anything morenot only is that false it's dangerous as the data is that prior infection is roughly thirteen times as protective as vaccination.  If you actually had Covid-19 and recovered there is no scientific evidence you need anything more -- not now, and not in the future.  Yes, failures will occur; nothing is 100%, ever, in medicine.  But you are far more-likely to be safe on a durable basis than via any number of jabs.

At the same time we must stop lying to those who we claimed had Covid-19 by crazy-high Ct PCR test but have no other evidence of infection.  Many of those people didn't actually have the disease; they either had nothing or some other viral disease such as influenza.  The CDC is now claiming that a "significant" percentage of people, biased toward young and high Ct value PCR tested individuals, did not seroconvert.  The near-certain explanation for that is simple: They never had Covid-19 at all and the test readouts were false positives.  To back this up if you believe that there was no influenza last year in America, which is what the CDC has repeatedly claimed, you're a flat-out nutcase.  Further, as I pointed out in November of 2020 we knew the false-positive rate on these tests was nutjob-level high because by the CDC's data every single person in America was likely infected and that made the winter (and this summer's) surge mathematically impossible -- yet they both happened.  The only explanation is that many of those who we claimed had Covid-19 by PCR test in fact either had nothing at all or some other viral infection.

An inexpensive antibody test will differentiate those individuals and must be made available on request for private, in-home use.  These tests exist today but forcing people into a pharmacy where the price is 10x higher because you're paying the tech to stick your finger, where ID is required and the data is transmitted to the government is outrageous, especially after we lied to tens of millions of people in the first place.  If you're not at risk you deserve to be able to know you have circulating antibodies as a matter of private, medical fact for no more than the cost of an at-home pregnancy test.  If you are at risk because despite being told you had Covid-19 you never really did then likewise, you deserve to know on, again, a private medical basis.  This technology exists right now, it is nearly 100% accurate, it is in most Krogers and many other locations right now, and must immediately and permanently be sold OTC on a "no questions asked, use at home as you wish" cash basis exactly as were the BinaxNOW tests sold in WalMart for a few weeks around here.

We must also stop ignoring both existing drugs that help blunt the virus' impact and continue work, where appropriate, on finding new ones.  Simply put the jabs do not work to produce durable protection, they may over time enhance disease, they are much more-dangerous than any other common vaccine and we cannot possibly reformulate and distribute them faster, even without testing each new iteration which is ridiculously stupid by the way, than the virus can evolve to escape the cage we attempt to put it in.  Both Zelenko and FLCCC, among others, have protocols that appear to work.  I personally used a blend of a few of them and believe it was effective.  Case studies are not proof but you'll no more convince me it didn't work than you will convince someone who got jabbed and then infected that it would not have been worse had they not taken the shot.

We must insist and enforce that doctors be doctors and thus act as advisors, not deciders.  It's your ass and thus it must be your choice as to how and with what you use to treat this virus since you, and only you, are stuck with the consequences.

The only option we have is to live with the virus and learn how to treat it; natural immunity, even against all "variants" by the data works.  The jabs do not; they produce non-sterilizing and temporary protection at the risk of severe adverse events up to and including death with an unknown and potentially-compounding exponent for each repeated jab.  They should remain a personal choice but only with full and fair disclosure and full legal consequences for anyone concealing the facts as they develop.

In any event since we now know these jabs are non-sterilizing and their protection rapidly decays anyone attempting to mandate them needs to go to prison immediately as they are not mandating the induction of durable sterilizing immunity, which confers a public benefit, but rather are mandating the exponential accumulation of personal risk of serious medical events including heart attacks, strokes and death in the scientifically-proved absence of any public benefit.

That is legally a battery and it is occurring with the reasonable expectation of causing great bodily harm or death to the person being coerced.

That, on the science, fully-justifies the use of whatever level of force may be necessary to stop it immediately.

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Wifi
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They'll just keep making up more BS and moving the goal posts to suit their narrative at all costs. It's madness.

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Jwm_in_sb
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I love you Karl but that ramp will be closed figuratively speaking.
Truthseeker
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Excellent delineation of the facts. As you point out, there have been indications for months that this was the case, certainly sufficient for anyone to hesitate in joining this medical experiment. To do so now simply flies in the face of WHAT IS KNOWN FOR CERTAIN.

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Neonsignal
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If the article showing existing wild mutations that add up to ADE is correct
( https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/.... ),
then the odds of ADE arising in a population with waning jab immunity seems very high, and could happen quickly.

If that happens, anyone who just got a booster is ****ed.

Therefore, everyone must get boosters right away!

Like the "source control" theory of masking vs personal protective masking, these people never tire of pushing a plan that requires 100% compliance to work, and surprise, it immediately fails.

Rowdypeasant
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You have written a lot of great tickers and like I have said previously you have likely saved many lives.

This is in my opinion the best ticker on this subject yet. Will be sending the link to many friends and family.

Thanks for your continued work!
Augeries
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The .gov will double down. They will never admit fault. The media is already at war with ivermectin.

"Look at these right wing conspiracyists, they're eating horse medicine and ending up in the ER!!!"

Well yeah, cause they don't understand dosing, which is one of the things doctors is SUPPOSED to be for. Luckily it seems a larger number of people intend to refuse the 3rd shot, so maybe the pushback will start getting stronger. In the meantime, hold your ground. Don't accept the jab, don't accept mandates, and laugh at the people who do. We have to avoid ending up like some ****hole country such as Australia.

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Thelazer
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I know I'm a Ghoul for suggesting it.

But you know, all these Karens I see.
The ones begging for there 5th Jab, Begging to Jab there kids in pre-school.

I won't shed a tear if 50% of them die off in upcoming year.
They bought the ticket, they take the ride.
Erroldo
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another masterpiece summary and analysis for the rest of us, of the science on covid. So, a possible outcome for those jabbed, is their antibodies decay toward 0x0 over time, both neutralizing and binding antibodies, lessening ADE for example? With added risk in the period of neutralizing decay when binding is high, until that becomes low.
So stop the jabbing and focus on treatment. Let's get the infection and treat it hard since positive to reduce the death? and of course focus on new treatments for the infected. Make mono antibodies treatment more available.

But no..... more mass jabbing is promised, and more variant is coming.
I am here in New York, and if the virus spreads easily as they say in delta, then just walking in crowded Manhattan is enough to catch it. We cant avoid it. I am convinced of Karl's prior statements (more than once here): It is a matter of when we get it, not if we get it. Just by people interaction, I dont see how we can avoid it forever, just by being human, unless to totally live on a farm in the country as a hermit.
Winesorbet
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Fascinating article from France about how COV is causing accelerated aging by damaging telomeres. I've linked to the Twitter post on it. You will need to run it through Google Translate. Well worth it.

https://twitter.com/Parsifaler/status/14....

Reason: link was broken
Drole
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I've not located a proper write up of this study out of Portugal.

An ongoing year-long study of 9000 health professionals...

They find that after three months, the level of antibodies dropped to one-sixth of the value detected after taking the two doses of vaccine. And at the six month mark, it is lower still.


It also says that in those who had already been infected, the drop in antibody levels was smoother...aka longer lasting immunity. I think this might be infected people who were then vexxed, but can't be sure based on the articles.


A couple other bits.... immune response decreases with age and sex with women and younger people developing/ maintaining stronger immunity from vexxing.


So most folks at TF might then say, what the heck is the point of taking the jab?

But no, officials in PT instead conclude:
"Serological tests are not recommended in Portugal or in other countries as a basis for decision-making on the status of protection conferred by vaccines against covid-19", arguing that "the efficacy and effectiveness of vaccines cannot be measures exclusively" by these tests."

Guess they are hoping for a b-cell Hail Mary??

Franco
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Quote:
you will take a materially-higher risk of adverse outcome from infection than an unvaccinated person for a period of time, likely six to twelve months


Why do you think that?
Cmoledor
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Morning Karl. Outside of the people who use their brains, no one will pay attention to the actual science. If anything, they double down over and over on stupid. But thank you for doing the work no one else will do.

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Troymt
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Thank-you for this information.
I sincerely hope that the exit you talk about turns out to be as presented. All of my immediate family got the vax except for my wife and I. I hate to think that the ADE and OAS potential they are currently exposed to is a permanent condition. Hopefully it wanes, otherwise we truly are in deep **** as a country as a result of what is coming.

(Of course we ARE already screwed as a nation due the last 100 plus years of criminal congressional conduct. But that is off topic)

I personally believe that the people running this Coof ****show have NO INTENTION of actually following the science. So I expect the jab to become mandatory soon, and civil war 2.0 to commence shortly thereafter. I know for a fact that no one is going to put the needle in me without first having won the fight that will precede such an event.
Kikknback
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The evidence you posted shows clearly this is a GENOCIDE.

There is zero reason to continue, and to do such is a Crime against Humanity, as it has been from the very beginning as we waited for the solid scientific evidence to prove it.

Start the Nuremberg Trials, and sentence the accused with the death sentence they deserve for murdering the hundreds of thousands they have killed.

The shots knowingly cause death and create lifelong disabilities, and there is zero chance they never knew this from the beginning being they ignored every single standard vaccine protocol used to protect the people from harm.

The Criminal Medical-Industrial Complex, Government at all levels, and Media at all levels are guilty of TREASON for their parts in this massive worldwide GENOCIDE of innocent people.

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Nadavegan
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"We must insist and enforce that doctors be doctors and thus act as advisors, not deciders."

The rise of Corporate Medicine renders this a moot point. The MBAs have already decided, long before your little appointment. The doctors have been given their orders, and they will comply.
Tickerguy
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@Franco -
Quote:
Why do you think that?

Because the evidence is that the jabs do not produce B-cell recall. If they did then the decay rate would be nowhere near what it is, as the B-cells (along with your spleen and other parts of the immune system) replenish antibodies in circulation, and in response to challenge can almost-immediately replenish them to sufficient levels to provide protection against significant disease.

Since that's not the case with the titers produced by the jabs the rational explanation is that B-cell induction does not occur, just as it doesn't if you get monoclonal antibodies.

Vaccine-enhanced disease relies on the continuing presence of said antibodies since that's what causes it; you have binding but not neutralizing antibodies, and that makes the virus more-able to get into your cells rather than less. If the titer wanes to zero over time because there was no B-cell induction then the risk declines to zero too. OAS relies on B-cell induction as well; that is a mis-training of the immune system such that it responds incorrectly. Again, no B-cell induction and THAT risk declines to zero over time.

This of course assumes you stop getting jabbed. If you KEEP doing so then you keep renewing the risk. But -- if induction had occurred then those risks would be permanent -- there would be no way back through the one-way door.

It appears, based on the Israeli data, there IS a way back out. You simply have to stop taking the jabs and accept that FOR A WHILE you will be at enhanced risk, but not FOREVER.

Now stopping the jabs may, depending on the level of government and private-actor stupidity, involve extreme actions -- up to and including eating people and making sure that families have nothing worthwhile to hold a funeral with. If so, well, that's the choice but THEY are the ones forcing you to do so, and that must ALWAYS be kept in mind.

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Blackcrow
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Texas
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Yet, our major hospital chain that was first to mandate the jab is now "measuring" antibody titers to "guide" who "needs" a booster.

My eyeballs just rolled outta my head at that.

Meanwhile, I am seeing 1-2 of their employees or patients jabbed by this hospital's employed doctors PER WEEK with blood clots post jab. These patient have zero other clinical risk factors for blood clots and their testing for an inherited predisposition to clots is negative.

This is extremely worrying. We are taught that the coagulation system functions in a delicate and dynamic balance, a million reactions with positive and negative feedback loops occurring every second to keep you from clotting or bleeding. (It is such an amazing systen, like your immune system, you might start believing in a Creator.)

With the exception of heparin induced thrombocytopenia (HIT), with or without thrombosis (HIT-T), which occurs when you introduce heparin and trigger an immune response to form uncontrolled clotting, your coagulation system stays in balance and you don't get uncontrolled clotting or bleeding in the course of everyday living.

BTW, the vaccine induced clots are exactly the same mechanism - antibodies to PF4.

Now we have an intervention, the jab, that completely tips this balance to the clotting side, blowing through your bodies natural anticlot defenses. And this response, since it is immunologically based, SETS THE PERSON UP FOR INCREASED RISK WITH FUTURE JABS.

That is what happens with HIT. If you have the HIT antibodies, a subsequent exposure to heparin triggers a catastrophic clotting cascade within several days due to an amnestic response. (This is one if the things that gets a hematologist out if bed at 2 am.) Usually these antibodies wane after 100 days, presumably the B cells arw tamped down as well, and you can rechallenge with heparin, if you really really must, with low risk for clot.

Who knows how long the jab associated immune response lasts and if there is a feedback loop to suppress it?

Will the "booster" jabs, like heparin rechallenge, potentiate this immune response to clot or will the B cells be subject to a natural negative feedback loop?? Who the hell knows and NO ONE IS PUBLISHING on this!!!!

The increasing potential mortality from repeated jabs may not be ADE - it may be to increasing catastrophic clotting.

Of note, not one of the referring docs of this system admit the jab was responsible for their patient's clot. Not one.

In fact, they want my "clearance" to give the patient......a booster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, my head just exploded a bit there.


Wishiunderstood
Posts: 73
Incept: 2008-12-17

NY
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Wow, too much logic and common sense in one article! I wish there were some signs that sanity could prevail but I'm not seeing any in any mainstream reporting yet. I hope this gets the widespread attention it deserves. Thank-you for your relentless work on this!!

With the mandates, threats of job and liberty loss I'm starting to hear people say, "I guess we'll have no choice but to get it at some point." It makes me so angry, I actually yelled at my poor father-in-law yesterday when he said it to me ("I can't believe you even said that, how can you say something so defeatist, I will never get it no matter what, if everyone has that attitude we may as well just turn our guns in now too!!!", etc. - lost it a little then felt bad because he seemed a little taken aback, ugh).
Whitehat
Posts: 5926
Incept: 2017-06-27

Elsewhere
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well said Karl, would add that the only option is a serious recognition of the screw-up.

We must hard stop, get back to normal life and place support in place for those who have vexxine based problems until their bodies manage to detox from this thing if possible for any or all. The support for people who could still be exposed to the coof does not change from the workable protocols discussed here regularly.

That's it. We might have to triage the people who were vexxed, monitor and perhaps even support some for close to a lifetime dependent upon damage which does not heal, is terribly expensive and involved to heal and even for inability to detox from the vexxine.

These two short paragraphs are the only options which must be done in concert to unwind this thing. The lists of consequences are much longer and harsher as the above comes with realization.

Deal with reality, or reality will deal with you.

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smiley

"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven," Satan's monologue in the first book of John Milton's Paradise Lost
Quantum
Posts: 194
Incept: 2021-05-18

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This is a real tour de force, and should end the discussion. But I don't see anyone heading for the off-ramp. They're grinning maniacally and hitting the accelerator.

Tickerguy
Posts: 177010
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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I was VERY, VERY concerned @Whitehat when this started that you were going to get narrow, spike-based, mis-matched B-cell induction in which case the damage would be permanent and, if the virus evolved to be enhanced by that mismatch you were ****ed and there was nothing we could do about it.

The Israeli data along with the study out of Cleveland Clinic on reinfection has convinced me otherwise. The latter I absolutely trust because it was NOT based on PCR testing but rather on clinical illness and, since among their staff members, was likely close to 100% reliable in terms of segregation between "yes and no" on who actually had the virus. Between those two it is CLEAR that natural infection DOES induce B-cell recall, it is extremely broad and durable -- and may be lifetime. It probably is against severe outcomes, provided you're not immune-compromised. This is why OC43 RARELY kills anyone these days, but it killed a ****-ton of people in the 1890s. The virus is still there and is still mutating -- but you're not dying from it until and unless you're immune-system-****ed, and then occasionally people do.

The Israeli data fully explains WHY the manufacturers set the dosing where they did and it also STRONGLY implies that B-cell induction does NOT take place from the jabs. Between those two things you DO take a hideous risk as the titers wane from the jab, BUT the risk also wanes. If you DID get B-cell induction from them it would not and the risk of being screwed would be permanent.

On the data, it isn't.

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Ktrosper
Posts: 4683
Incept: 2010-04-06

ft collins co
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Wonderful Ticker, thank you.

re: exponential risk of multiple jabs
Yep, most people don't live a life that enhances maintenance/repair. My guess is that the damage will add up/compound. We'll probably see strong evidence of this as booster programs get going.

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The unexamined life is not worth living.-Socrates
The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law.-Aristotle
Liberty exists now in the spaces government has not yet chosen to occupy.-Doc Zero
I anticipate that 10 Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders will blow me this evening.-K.D.

Jwm_in_sb
Posts: 3330
Incept: 2009-04-16

California Desert
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Okay...apologies for being pessimistic. How do we get these points across to folks? Particularly the jabbed? That is the biggest problem. Institutions won't listen but I think individuals might if we can make points without it devolving to an argument immediately.

It will have to be from ground up.
Shadowmask
Posts: 669
Incept: 2021-05-24

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The smart plan would be let the coof run around school and reach herd immunity while the jabb's titers wane. More immune people who couldn't spread it to the jabbed.
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