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 Demographics Is Destiny
Abelardlindsey 2k posts, incept 2021-03-26
2023-11-07 17:51:11

I am always immediately suspicious of anyone telling me to make personal life decisions on any basis other than rational self-interest.

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Its all in the mitochondria.

Its the future and...you're not.
Doladin 223 posts, incept 2022-01-15
2023-11-07 18:04:04

@Fenriswulf
Thank you!

I worked very hard to find a good wife, and spent very little on luxuries to afford my own house (with a garage). I understand many won't have the diligence or luck to be in this position.

If inflation increases, or UBI comes in, I am mentally prepared to homestead and leave corporate life, become another parasite on the system. I'm also prepared to expatriate to Russia, eg, if it presents itself as a spiritual successor to 1776 America.

Need to stay open minded. My inlaws fled Yugoslavia (but still support multiculturalism..) my grandparents were post WW2 migrants. As Fenriswulf said, life has ups and downs. We're smart and adaptable, we'll make it work.

If TPTB wants us to be a rootless brown mess of people, sure, but that means no fighting for King and Country so I will become more mobile to be in the community that I align with. To think only 2 generations ago, everyone knew their neighbours, left their doors unlocked, had much in common, could find a thin healthy partner... money printing and open borders, hey
Abelardlindsey 2k posts, incept 2021-03-26
2023-11-07 19:57:33

Religious right types like Vox Day are their own worse enemies. Their "my way or the highway" mentality alienates people like myself who would otherwise feel common cause with them in the fight against the recent leftist psychosis that seems to be everywhere these days. Instead of viewing themselves as part of a broader coalition fighting for liberty, they see themselves as being right about everything and anyone who disagrees with them as being wrong. This is NOT the way to win friends and influence people.

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Its all in the mitochondria.

Its the future and...you're not.
Fenriswulf 42 posts, incept 2021-10-16
2023-11-08 09:48:26

I was scratching my head because I didn't see a commenter saying just have 15 kids. Then I realized ya'll were referring to another blog, so I read it. He's saying the same thing I was, just differently. One thing you have to learn is to strain out the angry reactive stuff and get to the heart of the argument to see if it is worth something. Reactivity is always telling you something over target for that person - a deeply held belief that may not even be on point- both your reactivity and their reactivity -learn to read that too. Also remember reactivity shuts off the cortex and drops you into the brain stem so you may be as much as 20 IQ points dumber in the moment. Try not to argue from the reactive for that reason alone. No one is 100% right and no one is 100% wrong so pick the mostly right and learn to strain. That said, perhaps my reading comprehension is off but I did not see TG say don't have kids, only there is enormous societal pressure driving a direction and if you want it reversed at the societal level, incentives have to change. This is true. Pointing out the truth is not a black pill. The black pill is a choice. To have the good the true and the beautiful you need to see the true. all of it. It is foreseeable that we are going through a population bottleneck. Literally it is in the data now. That turnip shaped demographic is a population bottleneck. At least in most places except Africa. It's mild now but we can see it accelerating. Is that not what we are discussing? You can go with that flow or buck that trend. How bad no one knows, but it could be a once in a millennia block buster if you factor in the potential jab damage. Which means potential opportunity not for me or most of us but for the grandkids and great grands. You can subscribe to gambling that you can make the trend work for your progeny. That's the other guy's point, which also implies you are not trying to hold back the societal tide (which works in your favor, should you pull it off). Incentivize within a small survival group that IS within your personal reach and capability. Yes? Some of my forefathers came in the late 1600s to this land and they farmed, had on average 12 kids, all of whom survived because farmers don't starve. They lived on average into their 70's and that cycle repeated up until the 20th century. They made a good stab at civilization that lasted for a while. It isn't that you need 12 kids now, but the potential for that in 40 years, which means a base that can reproduce still. That base needs to have a good enough childhood to be future oriented in a positive way. It's not for everyone and that's the point. It is a choice to make with eyes open, based on the available data, knowing nothing is certain. Has it ever been otherwise?

The Amish and the Mormons are still having big families. Didn't some commenter say the Amish shall inherit post collapse America a few posts ago? Wasn't that the exact same point? The Catholics did this up until mid last century here. It is the pattern generally after a bottleneck such as War. I don't see it as an empty emotional rant (reactivity aside) but as an alternative strategy based upon the same theory (severe population bottleneck happening) upon which to place your bet. Perhaps a small number of X and millennials and gen Z ARE saving us, just not in the way some wish - that is to make it roses for us old people for little effort on our part. I have not read the Generations books, but from the summaries this is The Ask.

Where there is a will, there is a way. Live with less (one room sod house anyone?) Multiple generations under one roof, pool resources, move somewhere cheaper, become Amish 😛, etc etc.

Perhaps the new slogan should be Learn to Farm.
Abelardlindsey 2k posts, incept 2021-03-26
2023-11-08 09:49:49

The decision to get married and/or have kids, like any other personal life decision, is an intensely personal one. Others (outside society) can offer advice. But the actual decision and follow through is purely personal. It is socially inappropriate behavior to "second guess" or criticize the private life decisions of private persons. I have no tolerance for this behavior at all, and neither should any of you. People here are respectful of this. But people like Vox Day exhibit the inappropriate behavior in their writings quite often.

We can discuss the socioeconomic factors that influence fertility and that it fine. But the decision of an individual to make a personal life decision such as to have kids is purely a private one, never to be questioned in a public forum. My life is private, not a subject of public debate.

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Its all in the mitochondria.

Its the future and...you're not.
Ee4fire 1k posts, incept 2011-03-24
2023-11-08 17:52:11

I find this post interesting and sad. As the father of 3 young adults, I look back and asked would I have them again? The answer is yes. Was it all fun and easy? Absolutely not. There were a number of years where the income was below average, and the finances were really tight. Mrs. EE and I had decided before we were married that she would stay home so our children would not be sent to day care. We lived in a smaller house, homeschooled, drove used cars, did not eat out much, and kept the Christmas gifting to a minimum. One year the finances were so tight my aunt and uncle supplied the kids' Christmas gifts.

Life has taught me if you wait until the right moment or circumstances to do something, you will likely never do it. I have missed out on things, because I thought waiting for better circumstances was a good idea. Both sets of grandparents had their difficulties before they had easier times. Children require time and sacrifice, but there are usually great rewards. Watching them grow, learn, and figure their way in life is a rewarding experience. Being a parent can be the best job in the world as well as a difficult one. My one grandfather died when my dad was 10 and left my grandmother with 3 young boys to raise on her own in a town where they had no relatives. She persevered and all three grew up. She told me her faith pulled her through the rough times. Her faith took a bit hit when my uncle was killed in a plane crash at the age of 22. Yet, she kept going and maintained her faith.

All of you who made choices not to have children have your reasons. But do you know what you missed out on? I have memories of youth sports, crazy antics, funny comments, and coming home from work and getting attacked with Daddy's home and huge hugs, etc. Makes up for all the rougher times. There were a few times when I wanted to throw one or more of them through a door, but I didn't. However, I don't remember the bad times as much as I do the good ones.

Imagine if all of our ancestors decided it was too tough during the rough times and wars not to procreate. Where would we be? I am sure some of you are thinking in a much better place. In reality most of us would not have existed. Life isn't about things or wealth to me. It is about the next generation learning from the good and bad we do and making things better. In the current state of things, it looks hopeless at this point. But there have been worse times in history then now and people procreated, and things got better before they went bad again. The cycle started over again.

Karl, you support your daughter making the choice to not have children. You write on this forum about the trips and other accomplishments your daughter has made. She has you to share in trips and accomplishments. When you are gone, who is she going to share these with? She could have a spouse, but at some point, she will be alone. Maybe she won't care, but she won't know until she gets there. Young people don't think far enough ahead. I have met some very lonely older people with no family. Unless you have friends in the same boat, you are usually alone during what should be good times. You have a ton of knowledge and expertise to pass on to a young person.

The world is going to go on. some generations will have it easier than others. The WWII generation (my grandparents) suffered through two world wars, a depression, the cold war, political upheaval, and many other obstacles to an easy life. They made the decisions to make the sacrifices to provide the next generation. They knew there were no guarantees. My grandfather was an immigrant (legal) with a 3rd grade education and retired when he sold his business that had over 20 employees. He was always optimistic and was proud to support his family. He thought that was the most important part of his life.

It is depressing to me to see so many people give up and not want to raise the next generation of leaders to correct the mistakes of the previous generations. Future generations may not look back on US so reverently. We seem to have lost the human connection with family I grew up with. It has been replaced with materialism and selfishness. I am not perfect in maintaining the family relationships, but I try.


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Gov't is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Frederick Bastiat

The gov't is a money laundering operation from our bank acc
Tickerguy 202k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2023-11-08 17:54:18

Change the incentives.

Peacefully if you can.
Forcefully if you must.

Or not.

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"Perhaps you can keep things together and advance playing DIE games.
Or perhaps the truth is that white men w/IQs >= 115 or so built all of it and without us it will collapse."
Jack_crabb 19k posts, incept 2010-06-25
2023-11-08 18:31:38

@Ee4fire - smiley

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Molon Labe
Where is Henry Bowman when you need him?
How many are willing to pledge this? We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor
Larryboy 771 posts, incept 2012-12-29
2023-11-08 18:31:41

Ee, I can confirm. I have a 32 year old son who is unmarried and no kids. Mrs Boy has a 49 year old daughter who is unmarried and no kids. So, no grandchildren and none on the horizon. We are envious of friends who's grandkids fill their lives. We are over 70 so our remaining time is probably short and probably won't survive the onrushing shit storm. We have had a good run and enjoy a comfortable standard of living, but you can't buy the missing joy of the grandkids.
Kareninca 656 posts, incept 2011-08-23
2023-11-08 19:30:54

" I have met some very lonely older people with no family."

Ee4Fire, I have met some very lonely people who had kids. Right now I have a friend in the hospital, who probably won't make it. She has three friends in the whole world, and she has no relatives (which is hardly her fault). The thing is, I have only known her in passing, ever. But I am trying to be there for her. But here's the thing: she did have a son. Who is dead now. I know a lot of people who had a kid who died. This is a hard world for young people.

I figure I will not be alone since in my denomination we hold that Christ is with us, always. He dos not leave us bereft. I don't have to dump the responsibility on some poor human.
Boredfree 2k posts, incept 2021-09-15
2023-11-08 19:31:12

I appreciate those who have CHOSEN to raise children.

I have CHOSEN not to have children for what I believe are good reasons, these are based on how and when I was raised.

I'm blessed to live in a time when I could choose to be childless and had partners who thought like me. I can't imagine being forced to raise a child I didn't plan for or really want. People say you change after your kid is born, but why should I take that chance? A kid I resent is likely going to be from a relationship I resent, why play with another person's life like that. Ultimately we want the youth to grow up better than us, and this is impossible if we aren't up to the challenge of being better.

I don't know why people worry about childless people being alone in their old age. Can't a person continue to bond and meet interesting people as long as they're above ground? Shouldn't a person grow old in a way they aren't a forced burden upon a loved one? I'm sure your family won't feel forced, but if you become a burden, despite their help, won't this cause them pain?

People have children because they believe in the future and are betting with their bloodline. Regardless of how weak it may be.

I didn't want my kids resenting me the way I resent my parents and grandparents. As I age this resentment has changed character, but remains a strong feeling. I'll happily earn my friends as I age or I'll happily die alone. Plus, I'm the weird 'uncle' to many kids I'm around. I have fun with them, but I've yet to regret my choice.

As it will be it will be.

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The problem is most people want to point a finger rather than their thumb when dealing with challenges.
Ee4fire 1k posts, incept 2011-03-24
2023-11-08 20:31:51

Quote:
Change the incentives.

Peacefully if you can.
Forcefully if you must.

Or not.


Agreed.

Our forefathers did it. The J6ers tried the mostly peaceful method and many were persecuted. Force may become the only option if the ballot box and peaceful assembly isn't working.

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Gov't is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Frederick Bastiat

The gov't is a money laundering operation from our bank acc
Jack_crabb 19k posts, incept 2010-06-25
2023-11-08 20:43:47

I'm pretty sure only the last box will work at this point. But I'm the pessimistic sort.

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Molon Labe
Where is Henry Bowman when you need him?
How many are willing to pledge this? We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor
Ee4fire 1k posts, incept 2011-03-24
2023-11-08 22:56:01

@Bored & Karen,

I know of people whose kids have abandoned them but are in the minority. Some of them deserved to be abandoned because they were jerks.

On of my late dad's friends is a social worker who advocated for elderly patients in assisted living and nursing homes. She is in her mid 80's and still works. She has some interesting stories about people who have been abandoned by their families. Some are abandoned because they are jerks, and some are abandoned because their families are jerks.

I have yet to meet the perfect person or family. We all have our demons and shortcomings. We all rise to our level of incompetence. We keep limping along anyway.

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Gov't is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Frederick Bastiat

The gov't is a money laundering operation from our bank acc
Shadowmask 6k posts, incept 2021-05-24
2023-11-08 22:56:05

Changing the incentives will improve the dating pool.

The dating pool for young women is an embarrassment. If I was that age, none of them would get close enough to put a baby in me.

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The learning curve for being dead is steep, but everyone gets it down pat on the first go usually.--Thystra, March 28, 2023
Nelstomlinson 1k posts, incept 2011-12-21
2023-11-09 08:42:14

Quote:
The dating pool for young women is an embarrassment.

I'm watching my son looking for a decent woman. The dating pool is pretty shallow and muddy, period.

I bet you see a lot of young men who just aren't trying, or are trying it all wrong.

I see a lot of young women trying very hard to become the sort of man they want to marry, and none trying to become the sort of woman that sort of man would want.
Inspectrcalahan 1k posts, incept 2021-01-15
2023-11-09 08:59:37

Maybe MS is an anomaly , but lots of weddings and babies around here. Dont know how it compares to previous times but the day care system here is bulging . Though I did hear that elementary school enrollment is down. I would also posit that it seems to be middle and upper class are still making families, and lower classes are just making babies. I could be wrong.
Eleua 23k posts, incept 2007-07-05
2023-11-09 11:24:53

WOW! I wish I had read this Ticker earlier, but it is spot on.

Fecundity is everything, and everything in my lifetime has been to reduce the fecundity of White women and increase that of non-White women. White men have been marginalized the entire time, whereas non-White men are constantly shown (and it has gone parabolic in the past few years) to be the natural mating partner of White women.

Again, always - ALWAYS - ask two questions:

1). Why?

2). Cui bono?


We live in a cause-effect universe, and the human experience is no exception. Sure, not everything is scripted, but when you see a trend change, and it persists, SOMETHING happened to cause it.

Take, for example, @Tickerguy mentioning "fighting aged Venezuelan men" coming across the border. It is not just happening here, but all across the West. Now, take the headlines and it appears that the US is going to drag the rest of the West into a war of some form (Eastern Europe, Israel, China). Look at how awful and woke the US.mil advertisements have been over the past decade, with the emphasis on changing the demographics of our military...

...until recently. Now, for some reason, White males are back in fashion.

The ghouls that run our military know that DIEversity, by and large, cannot fight like the Whites can. Yes, some can, and do, but the recruiting emphasis over the past decade has been away from this fact and the combat in the past 20 years has shown that Whites make up the overwhelming majority of operational combat units, with DIEversity in support roles.

Now, put this together.

Drive down White female fecundity. Put their natural mating partners in a social framework of being undesirable, but heavily advertise non-Whites for these roles.

 


Send the White males off to war (there will likely be a draft and my prediction is that it will disproportionately grab Whites, or exempt all the "New Americans"), and who is left minding the White women at home?

Fighting (fucking) aged non-Whites.

The people that run our society know this and have been openly calling for a mixed-raced "White" or outright destruction of White majority in the very near future.

 


Even "right wing" kosher pundits are on record as not giving a "good damn about the browning of America." They sure as hell concern themselves about the ethnic makeup of Israel. They sure as hell know that race-mixing, especially with Africans, is 100% undoable.

I found it humorous that this particular ad was at the bottom of the text on this Ticker.

 


While I am sure to get an smiley on this from many, those that have explored the rabbit holes find that there is almost always (as in EVERY SINGLE TIME) the same problem at the bottom. People have figured it out over the years, and the last time anyone did anything about it, 90 million people were killed to prevent it from happening. Thus the taboo on talking about it. Even though we can't really discuss it openly, lots of people are noticing.

 


I said many, many years ago on this forum that public policy should be to make men and women less toxic to one another. Add in this Ticker, and we have the need to make society to be less toxic to natural pair bonding.

If I did not get downvoted for bringing up "The Chosen's" role in this mess, the following will likely ice the deal.

I've changed how I view most of society over the past 4 years. I've gone from standard-faire Boomer-con normie (I am a GenX), to what is politely now called "dissident right." However, there was one post on TF (forgot who, perhaps Jeepguy) that kicked it all off. Some topic related to the subject matter of this Ticker was being batted around in 2018-9 timeframe. Someone posted that Western civilization has no chance of righting itself until we repeal the modern concept of women's rights.

I was furious. However, as I have thought it through, I can't punch a hole in that.

Like it or not, women have less than a 20 year window to have enough kids (this would also include mate selection, which ideally does not happen overnight) to keep the species going. The division of labor in the sexes has been, for all of recorded time and before, women have the single most important job, which is to have the children and raise them (along with all the domestic chores). The men do everything else, in order to make sure that important work gets done.

Modernity has that inverted. As said above:

Quote:
I see a lot of young women trying very hard to become the sort of man they want to marry, and none trying to become the sort of woman that sort of man would want.


Women are now spending their precious and few fecund years chasing power points, spread sheets, and paying off insurmountable debt from their college years (women now make up 60%, and climbing, of college enrollment), all the while on hormone trick-fucking pills, as they all seek to land a top 5% male, hoping he likes her vagina more than the others, in the top half (or more) of the dating pool, he can access.

At 29 1/2, she realizes that the cock-carousel (many of which were likely non-White, thanks to women being naturally more susceptible to propaganda and brainwashing then their male counterparts) has made her completely undesirable, and we have not even begun to assess the damage of feminist/man-hating brainwashing and the extra 30-40 pounds she is carrying.

 


Yeah, it's bad.

At some point, this will stop. Natural order will assert itself. It will likely be a very large crisis, but at some point White men are going to take it back by force. Doubt me? Look at the NUMBER ONE imperative of the US Justice Dept. It is to keep White identity from taking root. It isn't the 70%, and climbing, murder rate by Africans-in-America, to say nothing of armed robbery, rape, assault, etc. No, it is people saying that the lives of the founding stock of the US matter enough to discuss openly. The DOJ only serves to keep the pressure building in a societal pressure-cooker-bomb that is likely to go off at any time.

Yeah, it's bad.


Long enough. Flame away.

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Diversity + proximity = WAR

-The facts do not care about your narrative. The "GREAT NOTICING" continues apace.
Shadowmask 6k posts, incept 2021-05-24
2023-11-09 11:57:40

There are no men those women want to marry, so they must become that.

Men are now pussies and women are abrasive because neither can embrace the masculine or feminine sides of themselves because they have to attempt both. It doesn't work.

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The learning curve for being dead is steep, but everyone gets it down pat on the first go usually.--Thystra, March 28, 2023
Eleua 23k posts, incept 2007-07-05
2023-11-09 12:31:13

 


 




----------
Diversity + proximity = WAR

-The facts do not care about your narrative. The "GREAT NOTICING" continues apace.
Abelardlindsey 2k posts, incept 2021-03-26
2023-11-09 12:31:35

@Ee4fire

You are essentially saying that the kind of due diligence and careful consideration that is common sense for making other long term life choices such as doing a start-up or taking up the international life style is NOT common sense when considering having kids or not. Real start-ups (where you are building a real profit making enterprise) are consider to require a 5-7 commitment out of your life with an uncertain outcome. Having kids is a minimum 20 year commitment also with an uncertain outcome. Reason alone suggests the latter requires more due diligence and careful consideration over the former, if for no other reason that the increased temporal requirements of the latter.

Honestly, your thinking makes no sense to me.


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Its all in the mitochondria.

Its the future and...you're not.
Kareninca 656 posts, incept 2011-08-23
2023-11-09 12:31:52

"I know of people whose kids have abandoned them but are in the minority."

Ee4fire, I was talking about dead kids. Not abandoning kids. I know of some of the latter, but you would be surprised how many of the former there are. And more every day, with the shots and fentanyl. You especially notice it when a person had just one kid.
Bakerv 1k posts, incept 2021-04-21
2023-11-09 18:16:48

When people start equating having kids to doing a start-up I'm thinking we've lost sight of the real reason we have dicks and pussies.

Skybluepink 1k posts, incept 2007-10-20
2023-11-09 19:46:46

Heard through the grapevine that all of the women are pregnant at one of the MA migrant motels filled with Haitians, so we have that going for us. smiley
Doladin 223 posts, incept 2022-01-15
2023-11-09 20:12:06

@Skybluepink
To be fair, that may not be through choice, if you catch my drift.
Can't wait for more fatherless 60iq anchor babies to share the education system (and roads/apartments etc) with us and our kids. Oh joy
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