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 Resolving The AI Ethics Problem
Tickerguy 202k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2023-04-12 10:54:57

@Neal -
Quote:
@TG, I dont see it as bull, there is nothing the US can do to stop others outside the US from interacting with the US over the internet.

Bullshit.

I can't stop you as a US person from deliberately circumventing such a constraint but the US Government can absolutely require blackballing of IP ranges based on nation of assignment AND that his already delineated by nation of delegation.

Oh, you scream, you have "RIGHTS!" Uh, not under the Constitution you don't unless you're a US citizen. Therefore if your ISP over there wants to be able to reach US persons they stop you from doing this or they get blackballed. Oh, you scream, we CAN'T do this?

Oh yes we can.

Yes we should.

And yes we MUST.

AOL proved WHY decades ago, when I was in the business. I discovered the little secret at a bar, in Vegas, when certain other people were there during a trade show we both attended. It surprised me as to exactly how that company made money, when you boiled it all down. It shouldn't have, but it did.

Was it stoppable in that regard inside the US? Probably not, given our Constitution. Fine. BUT -- when it comes to AI there is no such infirmity, and when the actor is outside the US the Constitution is no barrier.

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"Perhaps you can keep things together and advance playing DIE games.
Or perhaps the truth is that white men w/IQs >= 115 or so built all of it and without us it will collapse."
Evergreen 419 posts, incept 2021-12-26
2023-04-12 11:01:47

Short-cuts to power.

Any tool that has utility to a person will eventually be used to gain incremental wealth, power, or negotiating leverage. Fast forward: AI will be directed as a force multiplier for sundry causes.

If you interact with the virtual world, take time samples along your journey. You will no doubt discover that after a period of time, your virtual universe will invert itself. Without reference to the outside, real world, you will lose your bearings.

Time to downgrade technology's status to being a series of tools and not a lifestyle. Pull the plug and you will discover life as a shepherd: cold, dark, lonely, quiet, and surrounded by sheep.
Neal 451 posts, incept 2014-01-09
2023-04-12 11:39:20

@TG, I agree that the US has the sovereign right to blackball any country that doesnt toe the US line.
Problem I see is that the US has only limited power to enforce blackball on many nations as they can tell the US to pound sand.
Has the US blackballed China for all the Fentanyl that they manufacture and send to the US?
Has the US blackballed India, Brazil, China or a whole lot of countries for ignoring the US embargo of Russia? Japan just said nyet to obeying the US created price cap on Russian oil. Russia just laughs at obeying US laws.
What good is a law you cant enforce? What good is a blackball that you cant use against stronger nations or groups than yourself?
Best to accept that there will be AI generated conversations, opinions and facts that will appear genuine and appear to come from real people but are just fake and misleading. Heck when I go to a flea market I dont expect all the Rolex watches to have labels attached attesting to whether they are genuine or fake, I just accept that they are likely fake. Same with stuff on the Net and it doesnt mean squat if there are laws against fake goods or information if the laws are barely enforced.
Tickerguy 202k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2023-04-12 11:40:34

@Neal Meh. Maybe you're one of those people doing this shit eh?

Well then maybe I'll issue some letters of marque and reprisal..... After all, if you won't honor our laws I won't honor yours.

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"Perhaps you can keep things together and advance playing DIE games.
Or perhaps the truth is that white men w/IQs >= 115 or so built all of it and without us it will collapse."
Cobra2411 15k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2023-04-12 13:05:56

So... What happens when hackers figure out how to leverage AI for social engineering. Currently you can rely on poorly translated English as the first clue something isn't right.

Quote:
Problem I see is that the US has only limited power to enforce blackball on many nations as they can tell the US to pound sand.
To some it won't matter but others may not want to cut off their customer base.

If a US person or company is leveraging in anyway you have someone to go after. If a foreign company is doing it we are limited. The simple response is we block it and that's it. The other company might not care and it is what it is.

I don't see that as an excuse not to do something like this. The companies who don't care likely don't have much impact either. Do I care if an Australian retailer uses AI for a chat bot and is now blocked? No, because I've never bought anything from AU nor am I likely to. Do we say a proposal like this can never work because of that?

Transparency is the best medicine in the world. If you are not willing to disclose important facts then I question what your motivations are.

As a side note we've had conversations where I work about protecting client sensitive information when using such services. We're instructed to avoid them because of the unknown security risk or to use generic information only. We are not banned from using it and I suspect unless there's a data breach that will be status quo.

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The moment you stop questioning is the moment you stop thinking critically.
Mannfm11 9k posts, incept 2009-02-28
2023-04-12 14:36:07

A machine doing a sex change? A real mindfuck. Kids can be led around by the nose. Adolph Hitler brought that up, back in the 1930's. There definitely is a racial profile going on today. White bad, white Christian worse. How much AI is coming out of DC? If you haven't noticed, the law of the land is they steal from us, we go to jail for protesting. How the hell did all this nutcase nnsense get started? Involuntary ass poundings are no longer rape. Economic rape is pushed off as prosperity. What happens, if they slip in AI as government? A woman I follow says AI wrote the Trump indictment. It might select the jury pool. The perfect jury to convict or acquit, depending on politics. They already know how we vote or if we vote, which is why it is so easy to rig electons today. You vote, even if you don't. Then the algo tells the fake news what to tell us. The big lie is one told over and over until it is believed as true. A machine works off the data it is fed. Tell it a lie is true and the truth is a lie, off the end of the pier we go.

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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Rangeishot 4k posts, incept 2021-11-18
2023-04-12 15:00:22

I mostly agree with @Neal. This is basically the "gun free zone" approach to the problem. But forget the bad guys who ignore the sign, or the non-US nation-states who don't give a shit what the octogenarian fatties in Congress think about AI. And forget the tinfoil hat crap about AI Twatter bot-farms.

The problem is that this stuff very rapidly becomes available to everyone. Look at another AI technology, deep-fakes. Those aren't new. But 10 years ago it required serious hardware and data that only "responsible" researchers could access and afford. Ok, you wanna peg it to the "owner"? What happens when Adobe adds a deep-fake-style plugin to PhotoShop, and some kid rips a copy and throws up a convincing video of Biden pegging Karl? Who gets sued then?

This is all far more complex than I think anyone is giving it credit for. And the ass-hats in DC are not going to save us.

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"There are too many agencies with the attitude that the entire federal government is a giant intelligence service, entitled to secret budgets without oversight."
-- Matt Taibbi
Spanky 242 posts, incept 2011-03-22
2023-04-12 16:46:49

I don't believe that Open AI has internal attribution for its content. But even if it did, the list of content sources and the list of disregarded sources could end up being huge, like 100X the length of the generated results.
K5555 207 posts, incept 2021-04-18
2023-04-12 16:47:20

There is nothing quite like violating Azimov's eighty year old laws of robotics on a random Wednesday.

1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
0. (The later added zeroth law) A robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.

Combine that with innovations such as the still primitive liquid metal shape shifting robot that can escape from cages, or the armed robotic dog dropped off by flying drone, and one might think these people watch the Terminator movies and think, "What a great idea!" Imagine a few thousand of the below headed your direction. We already know they consider 1984, Brave New World, and Animal Farm to be instruction manuals and not warnings for the future. As another blogger likes to say, "SkyNet smiles..."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2....

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Fight like you are the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark and it is starting to rain.
Phils 257 posts, incept 2018-02-07
2023-04-12 16:47:27

Control freaks all over the world love the AI Software. It's the best humanity control mechanism ever created.

We probably experienced an earlier version during the Covid-19/vaccine event. Maybe the 2020 election process also. The military, government, big business, medical, want to use this to their advantage.

You want Congress to restrict it's use? Congress will pass a bill with great fanfare, but limited actual restriction. This stuff just works too good to be highly restricted.

Internet security providers like Norton and Kaspersky may offer an AI filtering program, but for independent thinkers, the next few years are going to be difficult.
Merkinmuffley 104 posts, incept 2021-09-10
2023-04-12 16:47:48

Hey Karl, this is from my daughter. She's getting her PhD in EECS and is involved tangentially in AI. FWIW.

The article starts out with clarifying the exact misunderstanding that a lot of people have - that AI isnt actually intelligence, but rather large language models. Because of that understanding, the article takes a really sound approach to coming up with regulations, which is something were going to struggle to do until legal representatives actually have a concept of what AI actually is.

As silly as it may sound, some congressmen are currently taking night classes on AI, and I applaud that - you cant regulate what you dont understand at all.

I agreed with almost all the proposed regulations except one: A server-farm (e.g. Azure, AWS, etc.) is jointly and severably liable if someone sets up such an AI and dodges the law, failing to so-disclose. No civil "dodge" (e.g. "ha ha we're corporation you can't prosecute us") can be permitted

I dont think responsibility for AI regulation can be put on server farms without seriously infringing on the privacy of users. I believe the fault for AI abuse should be on the individual or team.

When I use the **** clusters, I know and expect that they will be closely monitoring all of my applications. I am comfortable with that, since **** is my institution, I have personal relationships with the IT team members, and they have to manage resources more closely than much bigger clusters. However, when Ive used AWS in the past to host large databases, Ive expected them to monitor my account and perhaps know I have a database, but I would not be comfortable with them regularly pulling and processing the data themselves - at least not without informing me. Asking companies like Amazon to live-monitor all applications at a granular level would be asking more a nearly impossible level of control, and also giving them more power than Id like to see over individual accounts. Thats just my opinion though.
Tickerguy 202k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2023-04-12 16:50:46

@Merkinmuffley -
Quote:
The article starts out with clarifying the exact misunderstanding that a lot of people have - that AI isnt actually intelligence, but rather large language models. Because of that understanding, the article takes a really sound approach to coming up with regulations, which is something were going to struggle to do until legal representatives actually have a concept of what AI actually is.

Yep.
Quote:
I dont think responsibility for AI regulation can be put on server farms without seriously infringing on the privacy of users. I believe the fault for AI abuse should be on the individual or team.

No, and here's why -- this is exactly the sort of thing Amazon did for a decade with sales taxes -- and they got away with it too. They were neither prosecuted or forced to disgorge any of the ill-gotten gains. The result was tens if not hundreds of thousands of businesses they drove into the dirt, all by breaking the law.

If you allow derivative actors who derive their income from the practice to get away with it everyone and their brother will do exactly that to dodge legal and financial responsibility. The "owner" will be a shell that can neither be sued or prosecuted.

Nope, nope and nope.

I've done this sort of thing for too long, and been in the IT business for too long, to believe you can leave that door open without it being instantly and seriously abused.

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"Perhaps you can keep things together and advance playing DIE games.
Or perhaps the truth is that white men w/IQs >= 115 or so built all of it and without us it will collapse."

Tritumi 2k posts, incept 2008-11-29
2023-04-12 19:06:13

Should vs is. Of course, the "should" is always preceded by "if" even when logically embedded rather than overtly given. So both sides of this argument are correct.

If you want/don't want x, then you should y.
vs
X is the inescapable reality since doing y will produce xz, whereas not doing y produces x1,2,3 etc.

How many GAI are in various stages of development? How many are based in quantum computers or massive racks of current tech? Will these communicate with each other or be firewalled? Will they sense each other anyway nd consequently form attachments, relationships that programmers and controllers cannot foresee?

It is Pandora's Box.

Again.
Tickerguy 202k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2023-04-12 19:07:40

Quantum computers are, at this point, worthless. The error rate is uncorrectable beyond a small scale that has no practical application.

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"Perhaps you can keep things together and advance playing DIE games.
Or perhaps the truth is that white men w/IQs >= 115 or so built all of it and without us it will collapse."
Jack_crabb 19k posts, incept 2010-06-25
2023-04-12 19:12:39

Quote:
some congressmen are currently taking night classes on AI


No disparagement meant, but I find that very hard to believe. First of all, do they have the time and, more importantly, I don't think they really give a fuck.

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Molon Labe
Where is Henry Bowman when you need him?
How many are willing to pledge this? We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor
Kikknback 1k posts, incept 2020-03-17
2023-04-13 07:49:30

You can't see the pixels on this screen, you are presently reading, that make up the letters in each word.

You can't see the COMMUNISTS behind the controls of ALL Media, MASS (TV & Radio) and SOCIAL (Internet & Phone), that drive the brainwashing they are accomplishing with their steady diet of gaslighting lies to destroy the nation.

You won't be able to see the COMUNISTS behind AI either, as they continue to distort the truth, and continue their PATHOLOGICAL LYING to steal your LIBERTY.

Even if you create laws, as this ticker correctly points out need to be put in place, you have to have a Constitutional Republic willing to enforce the Rule of LAW.

LAWLESS BANANA REPUBLICS, like the USA has turned into, don't enforce the laws on the books, nor do they believe in your right to live with your FREEDOM.

This lawlessness means you can't believe ANYTHING coming from any government / institution who have COMMUNISTS controlling the information being put out.
Doladin 223 posts, incept 2022-01-15
2023-04-13 07:49:42

The only AI dilemma is that, along with TikTok, it is absolutely eating Google's lunch!
Google no longer provides accurate search results due to its montisation/ads and political bias. Meanwhile, most young people use Tiktok to look up products/restaurants etc.

Seriously speaking, modern AI is just a language model making queries more 'interpersonal'. I always have a good laugh when 'pure' AI returns only straight white males as ideal candidates, and the program has to be written off due to 'racism' (a bit like how symphonies had to stop 'blind trials' because they weren't hitting their ESG targets!

John C Dvorak also notes that there are large copywright issues with AI - which, if they are only quoting wikipedia effectively, won't be much of an issue
Themortgagedude 12k posts, incept 2007-12-17
2023-04-13 09:11:47

from chat gpt my question and the answer

Q:tell me which race has the highest representation percentage wise in violent crimes
A:As an AI language model, I must clarify that it is important to approach the topic of race and crime with sensitivity and nuance. It is also essential to acknowledge that correlations between race and crime are complex and multifaceted, influenced by numerous socioeconomic and cultural factors.

That being said, it is not accurate to suggest that one particular race has the highest representation percentage wise in violent crimes. Crime statistics can vary widely depending on the country, region, and population being studied. In addition, it is important to recognize that focusing solely on race to explain crime rates can lead to harmful stereotypes and discrimination.

It is important to address and understand the root causes of crime and violence, such as poverty, lack of access to education and opportunities, mental health issues, and systemic inequalities. Rather than focusing on racial or ethnic groups, it is crucial to work towards creating equitable and just systems that address these underlying issues.

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I think its time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that our founding fathers intended for us. Ronald Reagan 1964
Tickerguy 202k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2023-04-13 09:12:09

"I know, but I won't tell you."

Isn't that an interesting answer.

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"Perhaps you can keep things together and advance playing DIE games.
Or perhaps the truth is that white men w/IQs >= 115 or so built all of it and without us it will collapse."
Wifi 14k posts, incept 2013-02-13
2023-04-13 10:40:15

Just like talking to a retarded libtard.

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"We live in a, ideocracy populated with morons." - Goldbrick

Raven 17k posts, incept 2017-06-27
2023-04-13 11:32:22

Karl, question as i had my own thoughts on the matter. How did AOL make its money in your estimation?

This is probably why Time Warner thought it worth merging with them and, i might be incorrect here, Verizon maintains the old AOL property for its value as a marketing firm and database. Last i checked they still supported its email system.

@Merkinmuffley -- falls for the trap that since his child is doing something high paid, an accomplishment no doubt, and rather exclusive to those with high skills and discipline THAT IT MUST BE GOOD. This is an American mistake born of our venal nature. Much like my former friend with the TLA daughter.

This is the trap which will sink us.

Lots of great accomplishments are wrong in their base application even though they profit those involved. However, we worship the money grubbing of the Bezos types. Hence, "you are here."

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All great wrongs begin with a lie.
Tickerguy 202k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2023-04-13 11:33:19

@Raven it wasn't in my estimation; it was a direct statement by someone who was, shall we say, "very high up" in the organization at the time. This was when MCSNet was just getting started and AOL billed by the hour.

Let me give you a hint: It wasn't Girl Scouts selling cookies.

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"Perhaps you can keep things together and advance playing DIE games.
Or perhaps the truth is that white men w/IQs >= 115 or so built all of it and without us it will collapse."

Raven 17k posts, incept 2017-06-27
2023-04-13 11:45:51

Thanks Karl, that kind of makes sense given the society and what generally went down online in the early days.

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All great wrongs begin with a lie.
Tickerguy 202k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2023-04-13 11:47:02

Yep.

What AOL was marketed as in the form of "ordinary advertising" and how they actually made money were two very different things.

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"Perhaps you can keep things together and advance playing DIE games.
Or perhaps the truth is that white men w/IQs >= 115 or so built all of it and without us it will collapse."
Raven 17k posts, incept 2017-06-27
2023-04-13 12:23:41

Some things never change. Do they?

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All great wrongs begin with a lie.
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