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Ugh. It's pointless.

The argument is that unless we get the finances and corruption under control, we won't have the LUXURY of arguing about abortion and gay marriage!!!!! But nobody gets it.

Karl is right about this. Too bad too few see it. Time to buy more canned food I guess.

I agree with you. But let's say Karl's ideal party wins and we fix the financial problems. We then go back to arguing about bullshit and the crooks sneak back in the house again in pretty short order.

This whole argument is pointless. The problems are much deeper than this conversation indicates and have been building for close to a century. You can't really fix it now, the rot is just too deep.