Flick - Agree with all of that and have them stop attempting to sell me on their psuedo science like Man walked with Dinosaurs or that the world is only 8,000 years old. This is country bumpkin evangelical tent stuff. They also attempt to cure cancer with herbs and such crap.

I grew up in Oklahoma, my father is a baptist and my Mom is Catholic. I had to listen to all of that crap as a kid and listen as he would say weird things that never turned out to be true. I left there to get away from it.

Beck like George the Idiot is an ex-alcoholic and so he is pushing the agenda that saved him. Sorry dude, I do not have the personality weaknesses that you do so I do not need your crutch.

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Hope is neither a good strategy or birth control methodology!

KD wrote..

Individual sovereignty and the recognition of rights (as opposed to the granting of them) is most-assuredly NOT what the "natural law" folks are talking about in these meetings.

Okay, as I said that doesn't surprise me in the least. Our culture is in desperate need of education.

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There are so many rules no one knows which rules to follow. The only sure rule is more rules will follow. SQJ.

Medicdan wrote..

They are wedge issues because we allow the left to make them so.

Medicdan wrote..

Maybe this will make my point;
Saying the Pledge Of Allegiance in school has become a wedge issue by a few because we have allowed it.

You do know who Francis Bellamy was, right?

Ab: I guarantee you kids going to public schools don't.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.

Asimov wrote..

I guarantee you kids going to public schools don't.

I know they didn't tell me when I was in grade school. Letting us know that we were reciting a socialist loyalty oath every morning at the same time that president was calling the Soviet Union an "evil empire" would have raised some awkward questions.

Quote:

You do know who Francis Bellamy was, right?

Yes and that's not the point. Under a Republic we elect people to represent us. How is that going? A few are offended by our flag. A few are offended by our Pledge. A few are fearful of guns.

Therefore we elect people that are tolerant of the few and screw the rest of us. This is what people are tired of.

The problem is the few have become many. All in the name of tolerance, fair, compassion. I believe you can clearly tie all this into absolute looting, corruption, and fraud.

Why? Values. Why is this so unclear to people?

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Arizona & desert gardening
http://azediblegarden.com/

@Pika,



After 6 pages, someone FINALLY gets it!!!!
In any conflict, the aggressor sets thr rules. You have to figure out that if the Dems are losing a sraight fight, they are going to try to flank your position. If you steadfastly refuse to defend your flanks, you had better be able to charge up the middle faster than they can erode your flank.

Good luck with that.

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Diversity + proximity = WAR

-The facts do not care about your narrative. The "GREAT NOTICING" continues apace.

Since much of this discussion was prompted by the Restoring Honor Rally, I think some people might want to see what Glenn Beck's view really is on 'wedge issues' - I think most people are missing what he is trying to say and do.

Ironically, if he were to read Karl's Ticker, he would agree 100%. Why do I know this? He says so. Right here (despite Bill O'Reilly repeatedly attempting to drag him into debate on the wedge issues):

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4308988/why-d....

Natural Law - in its TRUE meaning IS EXACTLY what people need to understand. Unfortunately, there isn't a public school in this country that teaches a single thing about it and most of the populace wanders in the darkness.

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"Obama is the dark-center of the anal fissure of a chancre infested, hemorrhoid laden asshole preparing to pucker and spew endless jets of diarrhea."--Chthonic

Thanks Pika.

However the people that know better (beck haters) won't watch it. They get their information from better sources like Huffington. The news outlets that really know what Beck really means when he says we have 'Bigger fish to fry'. Gays of course. lol

Some people, much like some of the union folks I know, will never believe it until they hear it directly from their source.

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Arizona & desert gardening
http://azediblegarden.com/

Quote:

Unfortunately, there isn't a public school in this country that teaches a single thing about it and most of the populace wanders in the darkness.

Ive been teaching my kids these things outside of school as Im sure you did Steph with your kids. As much as we would love to plant everything on the schools we as parents have responsibilities also.

I'll give an example... I take my kids to the library every other weekend or so to let them read, check out books, go over history, etc. I see mostly immigrants there usually of the hispanic and Asian persuasion (usually indian). I am one of the very few white Americans there. Why is this? Coral Springs, where I live, is 85% white and I am by far the minority at the library.

The same goes for when I take my kids to play at the park, once again Id say usually 20% of the people there are white Americans and the rest or Hispanics, or Asians. The few blacks that are there are not "African Americans" they are usually Jamaican or Haitian.

My point is we as parents have to take a stronger roll in our kids lives and not just blame everything on the schools. We all know how shitty the schools are and how they are almost used to indoctrinate our kids. This is why we need to step it up.

I think this relates to the whole "nuclear family" argument. Im a big proponent of the nuclear family (one person works while the other stays at home). I know everyone wants their "things" but at what expense are these "things" coming from. I think many immigrants are still traditional and very family oriented (like how we used to be) which is why I see many immigrants when I take my kids to these functions. Im just sayin...

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almost on cue:

Quote:

Robin --

This week's Republican primary elections in Arizona, Florida, and Alaska delivered a new crop of extreme nominees that the GOP needs to elect if they want to take back Congress.

For these guys, it's not enough to return to the days of failed Bush policies -- they actually want to turn back the clock to the days before Social Security, Medicare, health reform, civil rights, voting rights, and women's rights.

Republicans want to put the Tea Party in charge. We have a plan to stop them.

We'll be reaching out to millions of voters across the country, making sure they know what the other side is offering, and getting them to the polls. But we have just 64 days to do it -- and right now, we're $242,000 short of our budgeting goal for the month of August.

Can you donate $5 today to support OFA and our efforts to make sure Republicans can't enact their Tea Party agenda?

While we've been ramping up our on-the-ground organizing in communities across the country, here's who the other side has been nominating to take power if they succeed.

There's health industry executive Rick Scott, the Republican nominee for Governor in Florida whose former company was forced to pay $1.7 billion in fines for Medicare fraud committed during his tenure and who led one of the most sickening anti-health reform groups last year. He's already spent $50 million of his own money to buy the race.

There's Joe Miller, running for Senate in Alaska. He's questioned the constitutionality of unemployment insurance and wants to phase out Social Security.

There's Dan Maes, Republican candidate for governor in Colorado, who asserted that efforts in Denver to promote bike riding could "threaten our personal freedoms." Really.

There's Sharron Angle, running for Senate in Nevada, who said she believes there are "domestic enemies" serving in Congress.

And then there's Rand Paul, the nominee for Senate in Kentucky, who has said he wouldn't have supported key provisions of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

These are the people Republicans want to hand the keys to.

That's why it's so important we give it everything we have to defend the progress we've made, elect Democrats across the country, and prevent these extremist candidates from controlling our country's agenda.

We're counting on supporters like you to help.

Please donate $5 before the end of the month tomorrow:

https://donate.barackobama.com/StopTheTe....

Thanks,

Mitch

Mitch Stewart
Director
Organizing for America





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write-in: Beelzebub
When you just can't vote for the lesser of two evils any more.

Ismael - Thanks. I'm in a bad mood today re religious fascists because of yet another such issue at my son's public school.

Karlmarxghost - I absolutely agree that people need to do different things with their kids, such as encouraging reading, etc. I think the reasons are many and varied, though.

Many two-parent families have both parents working because they must - not because they want more "things." Even if they did, though, having "things" is a big way that many people define themselves. Nobody can see your savings account; few people actually see how your fourth-grader is reading like a tenth-grader. Lotta folks can see the nice house, the fancy car, the designer clothes.

Just the way it is. People are materialistic.

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The man who wouldn't die.

Republicans want a small government. Small enough to fit in the bedroom. - C. Crumling

Quote:

To ancient Aztecs - cutting out the still beating heart of a human sacrifices (including children) was the highest order of good.
To a large percent of Muslims - killing, raping and enslaving infidels is the highest order of good.
To Hindus - Attacking, ignoring, prejudicing against and letting die for people in lower order castes is perfectly good.
To certain Pacific Tribes - eating your enemy was the highest form of good.

To Christian Fundamentalists - bombing abortion clinics and killing innocent employees is a noble honor.
To Christian Warriors - slaughtering muslims during the Crusades was god's command.

Don't you see? Your ENTIRE argument that YOUR book is the only one that teaches the TRUE meaning of "right and good" is based on evidence rife with CONFIRMATION BIAS. People take the SAME EXACT WORDS that you say solely and incontrovertibly steer human action towards the "greatest good" for all, and use it to their own purposes too. Unfortunately, the words found in the Bible are just as easily used to justify evil purposes as those in the Koran.

As well, you confusion correlation with causation. 'Islam'(or whatever) doesn't cause terrorism. It just simply happens to be the predominant belief in a region with the right mix of socioeconomic conditions to allow it [terrorism] to thrive. If Christianity was dominant in the Middle East, perhaps it would be seen by outsiders as "violent". Now religious differences definitely play a part in how their political process works and with more 'christians' they might have more freedom and opportunity. But that is besides the point...it's about freedom vs tyranny & fascism.

Look at Ireland. There was plenty of terrorism over there ALL IN THE NAME OF JESUS.

ANY platform of religious dogma dictating law or political process is just as inherently restrictive and antithetical to the philosophy of liberty, NO MATTER WHAT BOOK IT COMES FROM!

Quote:

What is "good or evil" without God? Without any footing for moral actions - anything can be rationalized as good or evil. You can just make it up as you go along. Good actions can be whatever society thinks it is with the popular culture at the time
....
To others without that kind of influence, doing "good" can be radically different.

Not to overstate my point. But you logically contradict yourself again! It's somewhat arrogant to insist that the sole sole reason that YOU are right is because of your FAITH. While at the same time you cite other peoples FAITH in different axioms or dogmas to be the the main source of evil in the world. Sorry that argument does not work at all on a logical or philosophical basis.

This isn't a discussion about moral philosophy; That could last days. However, don't kid yourself into thinking that just because YOU can't reasonably derive a framework of human "goodness" without using the Bible, that no-one else can either.

Besides, the whole idea of virtue is meaningless without freedom. Forcing people to follow religious "rules" to achieve some utilitarian outcome, arguably defeats the entire Biblical notion of "God given FREE WILL."

You guys kill me. When all else fails, invoke what people did hundreds or thousands of years ago. Let's not discuss the real issues. Let' not discuss that the United States of America is failing. Let's not discuss that most kids with a high school diploma can't get a job or do basic math.

I could list a whole bunch more, but it won't matter because you are so offended by Glenn Beck and the fact that he has faith. It just wouldn't matter. Because someone killed someone else over religion 100, 1,000, or 10,000 years ago, we must stick by the liberal polices that have wrecked this nation over the last 60 years.

If California is not a shinning example that your liberal unrealistic utopia does not work, then nothing will.

No one is going to make you go to church or pray. Pull your little head out of your self made rabbit hole.

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Arizona & desert gardening
http://azediblegarden.com/

No one is going to make us go to church, but they're more than willing to decide lots of other issues based on their faith.

Medicdan wrote..

I could list a whole bunch more, but it won't matter because you are so offended by Glenn Beck and the fact that he has faith. It just wouldn't matter. Because someone killed someone else over religion 100, 1,000, or 10,000 years ago, we must stick by the liberal polices that have wrecked this nation over the last 60 years.

If California is not a shinning example that your liberal unrealistic utopia does not work, then nothing will.

You're perpetuating division by misclassifying everyone who disagrees with you on the subject of religion as a "liberal".

Quote:

your liberal unrealistic utopia does not work, then nothing will. Pull your little head out of your self made rabbit hole.

You might wanna follow your own advice buddy. I don't think you're gonna find too many liberals here.

In fact, your rant pretty much serves as a confirmation of the ENTIRE PREMISE of this discussion; If you don't adopt the entire social platform of the traditional "conservative" base, then you are a liberal, atheist, commie that enjoys eating babies for breakfast.

Exactly, Augmentedfourth (nice handle, btw). This entire seven-page thread is ELEGANT confirmation of Karl's thesis.

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'...But people better realize that the worst-case scenario could actually happen.9/11 happened. This can happen. An economic 9/11, the likes of which we've never seen.' Gerald Celente

Sorry for "classifying" if you took it that way. It was not meant as a general statement meaning all and I did not reference any one person.

I am frustrated that we seem to be over looking what needs to be fixed because it appears that there is a group of people pointing and shouting that we can't have religion. Ok, that's fine with me. But do not vote for what is right because the person that can right something has faith and you don't.

My point was and still is, if you think things are failing but you will refuse to help fix it because someone like Glenn Beck talks about America having faith, then let the liberal government that is enslaving us and destroying our futures continue to destroy it.

FWIW, the Republicans are just as much at fault. I blame the American people mostly for allowing what has happened to take place.

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Arizona & desert gardening
http://azediblegarden.com/

Yes. GENERATIONS of them.

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'...But people better realize that the worst-case scenario could actually happen.9/11 happened. This can happen. An economic 9/11, the likes of which we've never seen.' Gerald Celente

Medicdan wrote..

My point was and still is, if you think things are failing but you will refuse to help fix it because someone like Glenn Beck talks about America having faith, then let the liberal government that is enslaving us and destroying our futures continue to destroy it.

The solution, as pointed out in the ticker, is to talk about the things that everybody agrees upon and nothing else: lying, cheating and stealing should be punished.

If you try to tie these issues to religion we lose. The same goes for the other side of the political spectrum.

Quote:

You have to figure out that if the Dems are losing a sraight fight, they are going to try to sucker you into an argument they know they can win. No matter how tempting, don't take the bait.flank your position. If you steadfastly refuse to defend your flanks, you had better be able to charge up the middle faster than they can erode your flank.

ftfy

They aren't attacking the flank. They are trying to regain control of the narrative. As tempting it is to rush into that fight, don't. As passionate as you are about any social or wedge issue, don't go there. As soon as you do the conversation changes to the wedge issue and you have lost control of the debate.

stay on message
stay on message
stay on message

edit:

remember this always: it's not about you.

>>I am frustrated that we seem to be over looking what needs to be fixed because it appears that there is a group of people pointing and shouting that we can't have religion.

There is an equally large group point and shouting that we MUST have religion, particularly their religion, and that anyone who doesn't have it should be set out with the trash.
And this frustrates me just as much. While the two groups are pointing and shouting the powers that be are robbing us blind.

THIS is the problem in a nutshell.

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"The closer you get to the drain, the faster you spin."
---some rando on ZeroHedge

I agree Abn0rmal. I just think its more dynamic than that because the media will not allow it to be about just the issues. They have a lot at stake.

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Arizona & desert gardening
http://azediblegarden.com/