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 Who Remembers February 2007?
Eleua 23k posts, incept 2007-07-05
2024-02-10 18:10:32

Re: San Francisco

They are going to attempt to attract art, non profits, etc.

So, they are going to try to attract people by stuffing the city core with what amounts to a giant drum circle?

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Diversity + proximity = WAR

-The facts do not care about your narrative. The "GREAT NOTICING" continues apace.
Raven 17k posts, incept 2017-06-27
2024-02-10 20:06:53

Eleua -- the implication is that there is really no true reason for that area of the city to exist. I brought this up a while back in another thread. Areas, especially urban, must rediscover what was their original core competency due to location, geography and climate and hopefully find something of said. Even the FIRE boom of the 1970s-80s was the beginning of the problem.

Once we as a society come to the conclusion that an area has no valid purpose, all sorts of aid and investments must be withdrawn. See the decaying Midwest for a good primer.
Eleua 23k posts, incept 2007-07-05
2024-02-10 21:27:11

Raven

I agree. If I own my own business, call it DANGER SEEKER ENTERPRISES, if it is in the 1960s, and there is no fax, internet, overnight postal service, etc., I need to be in proximity to my lawyers, accountants, banks, architects, consultants, etc. They, in turn, need to be around all their support businesses, thus the urban downtown. Everyone in the area tacitly agrees to congregate in one area for business.

Enter faxes, email, PDFs, electronic signatures, video conferencing, and all that stuff, and now why would you need to be near DT San Francisco? Sure, it might have a nice vibe, but if you are dodging high-speed lead, edged weapons, feces, needles, taxes, DIEversity, high rents, and congestion, you soon learn that you can relocate to a small business park in the 'burbs, like Walnut Creek. Eventually, they have the same issues, so you get your own small building and have non-essential people work off-site. There is still value in vis-a-vis transactions, so you schedule those as needed, and the cost is still far lower than having an urban nexus.

DT San Francisco is obsolete, as are most cities. The ones that laughed at the Rust Belt cities in the 1980s and 1990s, now get their own comeuppance.

Arts and crafts are not going to cut it. DT Portland tried that and it became the world's largest drum circle, which led to its current state.

Leftist urban politicians are stuck in the 1970s, regarding what it will take to reboot the DT core. It is gone. Just like I no longer need to have stockyards near railroads, due to refrigerated trucking, I no longer need to commute 80 minutes from Danville to San Francisco, and back, just to work in a glass box.

It is not coming back. Turning the area into a Bohemian wonderland will only exacerbate the problem.

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Diversity + proximity = WAR

-The facts do not care about your narrative. The "GREAT NOTICING" continues apace.
Tickerguy 202k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2024-02-10 21:28:29

It CAN come back but the value has to be there.

THAT is the problem; so long as its not, well...

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"Perhaps you can keep things together and advance playing DIE games.
Or perhaps the truth is that white men w/IQs >= 115 or so built all of it and without us it will collapse."
Raven 17k posts, incept 2017-06-27
2024-02-10 22:20:03

Eleua and Karl -- now add to your correct analysis that many cities, DTs and urban metros were much more than white and pink collar business.

THEY MADE THINGS.

Or, processed things raised or grown nearby.

They were shipping ports, centers of High Culture and Law and Science.

The 80s sold a false reality of the money business as the only future, which itself would later consolidate.

Most non-NYCers do not know that NYC's downtown business district was seriously underutilized by the 1960s and various boondoggles were trying to reboot it. Business moved to Midtown for good reasons and DT's old non-business core was long dead. It was a shadow of itself long before the 90s. In the end their biggest stunt stayed very much vacant and was to a large extent a government territory in its ultimate usage, the WTC.

Many other DTs and urban areas have a similar story.
Tsherry 15k posts, incept 2008-12-09
2024-02-10 22:20:33

We (the wife and kids) first visited SFO as a family in 1995, a few spare weeks after we started my business. DD was 3, DS was 5. We had a great time. During that trip, we were walking down on Jefferson Street, just east of Hyde, a little family unit in the Spring, just enjoying the day after a visit to McCormick and Culeto's for lunch and Ghiradelli for obligatory chocolates, and scoping out Scoma's for dinner.

A slug of obviously gay folk looked at us, continued their conversation, and said something about El Tourista's as we passed. One guy was in a tie-dyed wife beater with pink nylon short-shorts, bright yellow flip-flops and hair that was ten years out of date. The other looked like a fat, balding Freddy Mercury. The females were mostly shaved-on-half-the-head types, with dayglow yellow mowhawks.

Our motel, the Columbus Motor Inn, was reasonably priced, on the cable-car line or thereabouts, and next door to a club called "Bimbo's". Melissa Etheridge was the club act while we were there. Parking in the garage was free. It was safe to walk pretty much anywhere; food was excellent as was the weather. We felt utterly safe in the area.

We were last there in '15? '16? Dunno. Columbus avenue was glittering with the glass of broken auto windows; the parking lot by the pier was as well. Police and security were all over the place. Human excrement smeared every sidewalk. DW and I had a conference over at Asilomar, and thought we'd spend the night in SFO for old times, grab dinner at Scomas or The Franciscan. Our old motel had security in the entry to the parking garage; rates had doubled.

Hard fucking pass. We drove north and got the hell out of there.

Until they start enforcing the rules of civilized society, that area is a No Go zone.


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IQ plus a promethean mindset matters.-Eleua

1 Thessalonians 4:11 Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you, so that
Rollformer 3k posts, incept 2013-02-13
2024-02-10 22:38:38

@Raven: one of the most profound observations I have ever made I made on the train from Philadelphia to New York. On that train ride, ones sees many, many disused warehouses and factories on that ride. I posed my self the question, "Why has all of this capital (and those sorts of real estate are indeed capital) come to die?"

The answers that I can come up with, and will not share for the moment, do not bode well for the future of our nation. Perhaps we will come to learn from these mistakes that laid that capital to bed.
Raven 17k posts, incept 2017-06-27
2024-02-10 23:00:17

"Until they start enforcing the rules of civilized society, that area is a No Go zone."

TS -- once we get to the need for such at the scale necessary in SF and elsewhere, the battle is permanently lost. In the pre War period people would personally endeavor to keep public restrooms clean themselves while now even our British brothers and sisters piss in the streets after an evening of drinking. It was the best who lowered their standards firstly, the marginal followed and the degenerate merely have no opposition. Something is off in the Anglo Western Societies, and i think that i know what it is.

Rollformer -- part of what you observed is due to a simple fact in a finance capital through leverage system. There is money to be made every time infrastructure and operations are moved. This does not work when there are real capital costs and risk models.
Rollformer 3k posts, incept 2013-02-13
2024-02-11 08:40:47

@Raven: that was the point I was eventually going to get to...Thanks for stealing my thunder! :-)
Tsherry 15k posts, incept 2008-12-09
2024-02-11 08:40:51

Quote:
It was the best who lowered their standards firstly, the marginal followed and the degenerate merely have no opposition. Something is off in the Anglo Western Societies, and i think that i know what it is.


Concur. Dear Fam and I visited The City of London seven months before The World Lost It's Mind and we stayed a couple floors above a pub, across from Smithfield Market, where most of larger London obtained it's meat and poultry.

Bankers and their minions from The City hit up the pub and two others within throwing distance, across the street from what is now a park where William Wallace was beheaded.

Nothing quite like seeing a comely thirty-something relieve herself against the side of one of the ubiquitous London cabs; guys of course as well, but not often you see a woman do that in a designer business suit. This was a routine starting at 4PM every afternoon, but on Thursdays and Fridays, the group was 3x the remaining days. Hundreds of beer glasses were set neatly on the curbs in the morning when we looked outside. We had to steer around them on the way to the workman's breakfast joints, where we could get a sausage roll for a pittance on the way to the Tate or the National Gallery.

Saw that of course in Austin a few years before London, where our group of 25 or so watched a non-drunk woman defecate on the side of the Bank of America branch not far from Sixth Street, where every other building is either a bar or a restaurant, seemingly all with garage door openings and an off-key band playing 38 Special or Stevie Ray Vaughn or Lynyrd Skynryd in the back.

Kudos for the shitting on the bank though; I was the only one that found humor in it however. The rest of the group was disgusted of course. I thought it poetic, and hadn't even had a single adult beverage.



Isn't the spiral into oblivion interesting though? Shame we're caught up in it.

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IQ plus a promethean mindset matters.-Eleua

1 Thessalonians 4:11 Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you, so that
Eleua 23k posts, incept 2007-07-05
2024-02-11 08:41:51

Raven wrote..
Something is off in the Anglo Western Societies, and i think that i know what it is.


 

----------
Diversity + proximity = WAR

-The facts do not care about your narrative. The "GREAT NOTICING" continues apace.
Raven 17k posts, incept 2017-06-27
2024-02-11 14:37:07

@Rollformer -- please pardon any offense as it was not intended. I assumed that you would take a completely different angle being more qualified than me in terms of corporate finance and banking. If you would please be so kind, i request that you further develop the point as originally intended.

@Tsherry -- i am sure what you observed in London was an education. Part of my thesis and documented study is that this is nothing new and degeneracy was nothing new amongst the respectable i.e. business crowds of both here and there as far back in those venues as the 1980s. Of course here we are always much more tacky. Since degeneracy only gets worse over time, both places as observed are much more offensive now, however the roots go way back and the tipping point was an era which would define so many things in a variety of venues with which we live now. The drunkenness and degeneracy merely being by one aspect. And, people think the 80s were great...when in actuality they were far beyond beta testing of the woke, sicko and criminal and corrupt stuff which we arrived at today and everything in between, not to mention the decline in so much. The 80s gave us "Nine And a Half Weeks", while the current has "Fifty Shades of Grey". And, all of the societal parallels track these statements of social sentiments.

@Eleua -- the problem is where to begin in a format such as this, and i am not doing a series here. Listen over time and naturally i have already and will give pieces of it here and there. Plus, it is something for my future uses, and i do not care to debate it piecemeal.
Doladin 224 posts, incept 2022-01-15
2024-02-12 09:16:52

@Raven, Eleua, TG, The breakdown of CBDs is actually very interesting, and a real opportunity for those living outside of clownworld. It's like a soft collapse that can be navigated without typical armageddon societal collapse scenarios.

Cities are blue zoos, full of 'diverse' types that you don't want to be around, and people of our thinking are only there if it's tied to making our incomes.

However, most people would choose to move away from this, if we could. It's similar to how centralisation of internet services (like social media) dictates and propagates. I posit that the internet will soon decentralise as well, just as people will 'decentralise' from cities, wherever possible.

To me, it seems that offshoring is becoming less popular, and the cost of moving goods is becoming harder and harder (and that was before issues in the Suez canal). On a related note, I am noticing the QUALITY of items to becoming worse, even before lockdowns. I am actively paying more for non-chinese goods for important purchases, i.e. kitchen appliances and pressure washers.

People aren't meant to live so densely and closely to others, ESPECIALLY if they're very different to you. I believe we also have a spiritual need to be in nature, with greenery and clean air. Westerners are the only ones that show stewardship to the environment. If we could cut down immigration numbers, our population might even settle to a 'sustainable' number and be less concentrated in cities.
Mtdm 1k posts, incept 2009-07-23
2024-02-12 10:50:11

Degeneracy of that nature in the UK used to be something which applied only to certain strata within the class system. Now that we are DIEing of wokeness and such divisions are less acceptable, it seems that almost everyone has embraced the degeneracy. While I do not hanker after a ruling class per se, it is instructive that if you wish to pride yourself on equality of opportunity, then you must establish and maintain equally high standards of civility for all.
Rollformer 3k posts, incept 2013-02-13
2024-02-12 10:55:10

@Raven: no offense taken. The insight I found was that our nation no longer knows the difference between money and capital. That is a broad subject for a blog comment...
Raven 17k posts, incept 2017-06-27
2024-02-12 14:27:36

@Rollformer -- "...our nation no longer knows the difference between money and capital."

Wow, that is a most excellent insight, much appreciated, and closely parallels people not knowing quality anymore.

I would be interested if you would be so kind as to develop the concept here or elsewhere.

The one thing that i can contribute is that many will argue against our point in that old installations age out along with their surroundings. This is false economy based upon easy leverage. Even an old installation had a capital advantage in a few ways: area competencies, use beyond expected lifetime which is a savings, employment resources local to operations, close supply channels, etc. It is a long list, however most people discount that not having to rebuild an area all at the same time is a net savings. Of course, letting things go we are faced with that by default. This is why we can only recover if treated as an emerging market, literally having to repeat the complete first half of the 20th Century in terms of hard investments and rehabilitation. There are many blockages to this, not insurmountable, which form the core of much of my work as they are Cultural and Community. Without them, do not even try which our leaders do know as the mess keeps them in control. Yes, it is as sick as it is devious, and sadly must be acknowledged as quite brilliant.

@Doladin -- Please clarify: CBD? Thanks.

Actually i agree with a lot of what you wrote from another angle. We forgot what cities and towns were supposed to be. They were not meant to be mega cities of the barely functional and filthy. Even in the American industrial city eras there was a sense of hygiene and order. Cities will always oppress either through Culture, Order and Rule of Law or they will oppress with their filth, dysfunction and disorder. It is a binary choice. People prefer to live in a functioning Culture or at least be near to it, hence towns as a microcosm of the concept. The escape from urban was not and is not logical but rather an admission of the problem and an interim hack.

Where we mess up is that Cities and Towns were supposed to coexist with Nature and The Country on their borders and integrally a part to purify both in deed and sentiment and also as a reminder of the reality of Nature and its dominion over Man no matter his technology. In this the City respects Nature and works in its harmony. Others have taken this discussion further.

The City then seeks to keep the cleanliness of the more Natural Areas as a constant reminder of the cost of not. Civic hygiene movements for urban areas once originated in this acceptance of reality. It was the reality that when people come close together for the safety of not living in the nakedness of weakness before RAW Nature, we instantly obtain the liabilities of our nakedness in close proximity to each other. i.e. the great Cities of Europe learnt the cost of throwing their sewerage out the windows was very high when one was not surrounded by rural openness. This example makes us realize that going out into rural and Nature, living in The Country and other rural areas makes people sloppy. One only has to visit several to see how people have managed to degenerate in many and denigrate the Civil Order as well as damage and destroy the ecology merely because rural became a way to do whatever one wanted. In essence the dysfunctional cities exported their disorder to The Country areas as many have learnt that getting away from the City often means even less peace and quiet and more offense to the senses from human disorder sources. The reason for this is that all folk once aspired for Culture and Order and cross pollinated differing areas and could understand others from other places in this. The City was to be the pinnacle of this refinement in an aspirational way whether one desired to live there or not. Yet, we saw The Country and Rural areas used and abused by their people who let them be exploited and polluted for temporary gain rendering themselves undesirable.

When we import peoples for whom Cities are chaos, dysfunction, disrepair and filth as well as their Country and Rural areas being literally outside of the law and merely degenerate existence using the open land as easy buffer as in the example of the sewerage above, we risk those who cannot see our greater vision as it once was, the coexistence of the Town and Country Gentlemen.

We locked this problem in when we mass imported the Irish in the 1700s. Not that they were particularly degenerate or uncivilized as opposed to any other, however in their coming validated the concept of leaving one's mess behind for a new place without knowing internally how to keep any place. Then they would be greeted by massive swaths, almost infinite in human perception even now, where problems did not have to be faced but merely abandoned for the next chance to screw up which they did in spades. It is the case for each and every immigrant group afterwards who lands in some urban excuse ghetto in our once noble towns and cities and later finds enough coin to relocate to a burb of sorts leaving no improvement to where they spent their initial years and generations, often worse. Curiously, where they go does not seem to fare so well for their arrival as my people know this all too well and too often in too many places. And, the pattern repeats infinitely so it seems.

If we qualified our immigrants based upon what they left behind, a lot would not have ever come to this land.
Mjeff87 4k posts, incept 2021-11-22
2024-02-12 20:18:43

@Raven, with all due respect...fuck off with your Irish comment. Spoken right from County Galway as a third generation.

That said, the entire rest of your post is spot on. Towns and cities used to mean something here in this cuntry so many years ago. There was something known as civic pride.

My grandfather, Mr. Jacob Martin.

 

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Si Vis Pacem, para Bellum

You'll get less than you desire, but more than you deserve
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