On Personal Responsibility, Part 2
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2023-09-03 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Other Voices , 271 references Ignore this thread
On Personal Responsibility, Part 2
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I'm not even going to bother with poles, line and hooks anymore -- in fact, I may just try sitting still tied at the dock with a beer in-hand and see if the fish still jump into the boat courtesy of Ishmael.  After all, fuel costs money, you know.... -- Ed



In the first part of this series, I stated that every adult’s first responsibility is removing toxic people and situations from their lives.

Obviously 100% removal isn’t possible, and it’s even harder in clown world.  The only surefire way to avoid the abuse is to check out, either temporarily or permanently.  Over the past three years, we had a national tragedy of “deaths of despair.” A few people decided death was a better alternative to lockdowns.  One college student killed himself and wasn’t discovered right away.  Some people used substances to check out temporarily but spiraled into suicide through drink or drugs.  

Fuck you screamers who begged for this outcome with vaccine mandates.  Own the death count. Ironically, those who rolled a 1 when they took the clot shot are immune.  Thank a fresh gravestone for ushering in the world you wanted!

If a few slimeballs came to mind reading that, it might make understanding today’s missive easier.

Today’s guest Ticker offers advice on how to identify manipulators.  Acknowledging an intolerable situation is the first step to improve it.  Pinpointing exactly why is the second step. This also helps avoid similar traps in the future. Some won’t feel comfortable extricating themselves until they feel justified in doing so.

Sometimes when situations cause uneasiness for nebulous reasons, it’s because one person is maliciously manipulating another. Manipulators never act in good faith and the best thing for the target is to end or minimize the relationship as soon as possible.

What I’m describing isn’t a one-off behavior.   A few nasty comments do not a toxic person make, but repeated instances do.  This is a pervasive pattern that touches all of a person’s social interactions.  They act like this with everyone. It may take a while to notice the pattern, but it is unmistakable. 

Manipulation is defined as a person working on another instead of cooperatively with them.  In doing so, the manipulator turns them into a target.  Malignant manipulators view people as objects to be moved.  It never occurs to them that they are human beings with feelings, thoughts, and wants of their own. Treating others the same way as a toaster, a tool for a task, is not the only nasty legacy. Using others to give them feelings is worse.

Here’s one tip if you are caught in their web.  This is especially poignant for family members.  Nothing will ever be enough to fill the endless void inside them. We are our own inescapable constant companion. Empty people can't be saved from themselves.

There are five tactics that manipulators commonly use.  It’s good to learn about them when you are calm because they are harder to identify in the moment.  Some of these will sound familiar.  The stars of today’s story are Toxic Tammy and Toxic Tad.  Everyone has at least one of these characters in their lives.

The underlying assumption is the target is a bad person for making Tammy or Tad feel bad.

All of these tactics are used to shut down conversations and cooperation.  In this way toxic people never accept responsibility for their lives and foist it on others.

Using Emotional Language takes control of the conversation by choosing words designed to make the target believe disagreeing with Tammy makes them a bad person.  Tammy weaponizes her feelings by throwing a tantrum to shut down conversation.  A hint this tactic is in play is when the target is causing “trauma” or “retraumatizing” Tammy for speaking. 

Another example is, “I am no longer safe…” Followed by some unreasonable demand. There is a big difference between this and, “I don’t feel safe.”  The former implies that if the target doesn’t capitulate immediately, Tammy is in actual danger.  The latter invites further inquiry as to the source of fear.  

Tad uses emotional language when he tells his boss, “I am no longer safe at work.  Jeremy told a homophobic joke, you must fire him.”

During the coof wars we heard lots of examples:

“If you won’t wear a mask, you want to kill grandma!”

“We are all in this together.”

“Right now some unvaccinated person is stealing care away from my sick child!”

Countering emotional language: Ask questions.  An honest person will relish the opportunity to explain her point of view.  Tammy will explode and expose herself for the manipulator she is.

“What makes you feel unsafe?” Phrase it this way to acknowledge it’s a feeling, not a fact.

“Which unvaccinated person is stealing care from your child?  What about all the smokers with heart attacks?”

Coerced Soothing

Who doesn’t want to comfort somebody in pain?  That’s the crux of this technique.  Tammy screams at Sue, telling her she’s worthless.  As soon as Sue tells Tammy to cut it out, Tammy starts sobbing uncontrollably.  She has completely derailed the conversation by forcing Sue to give Tammy the feelings she wants.  When somebody forces another to apologize that is coerced soothing. Boys who grow up with mothers like Tammy often stick their dick in crazy later.

Counter to coerced soothing:  Refuse to do it.  Walk away, and take any kids with you.  Tammy isn’t in any more distress than she normally is.

Emotional Threats

When Tad can’t force his target to give him sympathy, he goes for threats instead.  Whatever words Tad uses, they all boil down to, “if you do/don’t do this, I’ll do this.”  He attempts to make his feelings and actions somebody else’s responsibility.

“If you leave me, I’ll…” Is something everybody with a crazy ex has heard at least once.

“We’ll have to stay locked down until enough people get the clot shots.”

Counter to emotional threats: Same as above, run away.


What’s worse than arguing with one person?  Arguing with more.  If coerced soothing and emotional threats don’t work, manipulators bring other people.  Keep in mind the “reinforcements” may not really exist.  

Tammy approaches you about a dinner party. “I’ve talked to everybody and nobody likes Bob.  You should un-invite him.  If he’s there, I’m afraid other people won’t come.”  Don’t bother asking who these other people are, Tammy hasn’t talked to anyone.  She’s implying that if you don’t do what she wants, you’ll lose her friendship along with a bunch of other people. 

The Covid cultists perfected this technique with their appeals to authority.  Remember how every expert said we had to wear tard rags or we would die in the street?  How about the FDA’s tweet reminding us we were not horses?  How many would-be purebloods fell for the lie that they were the only hold out due to triangulation? Another clown world example is every mainstream media running the same stories, also called reprogramming the NPCs.

Counter to triangulation:  Good riddance to that bitch Tammy, she isn’t worth having as a friend.  

Weaponized Incompetence

“The speed limit isn’t 55 here?”  Also known as feigning ignorance, this technique comes out when Tad is caught deliberately violating rules. He is attempting to get out of consequences.  Think of all the people who have lied before Congress.

Counter to weaponized incompetence: Point to the rules. Not that America is a country of laws anymore, but Congress could do something if they chose.

If you ever wonder if someone is manipulating you or not, ask lots and lots of questions.  Manipulators hate them and will explode instead of providing context for their concerns.

All of us need a reliable tribe against clown world.  It’s up to you to remove manipulators so they can’t stab you in the back later.

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Comments on On Personal Responsibility, Part 2
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Htp 33 posts, incept 2023-08-10
2023-09-03 08:47:40

So. You know my mother and sister. Both beauties and unfort also clinical narcissists. I naturally used these tricks myself until as a barely adolescent I met a wealthy, wise old man who called me out and then extended his hand and told me to look him in the eye and shake. I had a difficult time doing that, looking the man in the eye, because I realized I was a liar and manipulator. Mum and sis can take your hand and look you in the eye without divulging a telltale sign they are manipulating you deliberately. Most everybody falls for them. Watch yourselves out there, and ditch the _itches once you recognize the patterns, you'll be far better off.
Ocdawg 495 posts, incept 2019-03-14
2023-09-03 08:47:46

Timely Ishmael smiley

I see this ratcheting up again for Round 2... fun part is I'm so entrenched with disgust for these folks the questions end quickly... I advise no tact or remorse, just go after them and expose them ... then fuck 'em and buh-bye

We move to lake country in one week so even less exposure to them Ishmael... thank God... now back to my perch...

The quest for the Three-peat begins...


Tonythetiger 940 posts, incept 2019-01-27
2023-09-03 08:47:51

Problem is, these people are everywhere now. You can't swing a dead cat by the tail without hitting one.

My memory isn't what it used to be, but I don't ever recall seeing so many of them back in the day. Common courtesy used to mean that most folks would do their best to cooperate and obtain a good result for everyone.

Now, everyone skips the entire cooperation thing and goes immediately to a hostile, winner-take-all confrontation. And even when they 'win', the hostility continues.

"War is when the Government tells you who the bad guy is. Revolution is when you decide that for yourself." - Benjamin Franklin
Unwashed 113 posts, incept 2023-06-23
2023-09-03 09:05:39

All good suggestions but I'd rather punch them in the face, figuratively. During covid I went to the grocery store and entered without a mask and wouldn't put one on until some manager approached me. Well I made it to the deli counter and the deli worker tells me, she was told she didn't have to serve anyone without a mask, a union thing. So, I uttered, this is ridiculous and disgruntlely put it on since I didn't really want the confrontation. A few minutes later I said to myself, fuck this shit, conflict it is. I walked up to the counter and ask the worker if she changed those gloves she was using for my order. With a reponse of "huh" I demanded loudly if she changed those gloves. Loud enough that the manager came out to see what was going on. After she finished crying to the manager I calmly said, I ashed her to change her gloves, isn't that a concern. The manager had nothing to say and made the worker change her gloves, lol. There's more to the story since a union rep came out to talk to me but I'll leave at more conflict. Maybe that falls under rules the articles states, idk. That wasn't my first go around either.

If they try round 2 I may have to literally punch them in the face. Well, slap instead, punch is assault, slap is harassment, lol
Generalee 225 posts, incept 2011-04-30
2023-09-03 09:43:12

That's Rich!
Weezie 8k posts, incept 2008-05-19
2023-09-03 09:43:24


Cut those fuckers out like the cancer they are.

TeH Boy decided to do his senior year homeschooling. So, I rejoined the homeschooling groups.

Lasted about 4 months before some of the brain-dead fucks went on about how they may go back to requiring vax proof to let families play together on park days if this so-called "new variant" whipped up.

I have many years of experience with homeschooling, ran many of the larger co-ops in my metro area and navigated getting special education services (speech, OT, etc) for homeschoolers - something normally unobtanium.

In short I have extremely valuable knowledge that I was willing to dispense for free to those who had questions.

But, no, I'm not going to frequent a forum where many members fxcking manipulate children about playing OUTSIDE IN A MOTHERFUCKING PUBLIC PARK.

Fuck them.

jihad pressure cooker tea party guns Constitution Bill of Rights play doh squiggly line prepper home garden clusterfuck
Dan_e 168 posts, incept 2009-06-23
2023-09-03 09:54:20

@Tonythetiger "Problem is, these people are everywhere now. You can't swing a dead cat by the tail without hitting one."

I think it was a video from Jordan Peterson where they mentioned the lack of a cohesive society where narcissistic people are kept in check by others before they can fully grow into themselves. Whether that's true or even the whole reason, I can tell you this for free: the past 3 years haven't done society a lot of good in keeping the narcissists in check. Neither does the whole woke feels over facts.

The really successful manipulators can probably hide in plain sight, for the pthers, apply Ishmael's advice, cut off the toxic, run away. Let them fuck each other up and steer clear.
Jerry_d 30 posts, incept 2022-05-12
2023-09-03 11:57:04

I cannot believe we are talking about this when people are trapped at Burning Man!!! We need to support them, in the desert, in their time of need!

Evergreen 363 posts, incept 2021-12-26
2023-09-03 12:30:23

Lasted about 4 months before some of the brain-dead fucks went on ...

Brain-dead? Some?

What state are you in that the homeschoolers are robots AND vaxx freaks?
Ingar 638 posts, incept 2017-02-14
2023-09-03 12:30:28

I've run across some manipulators in my time and always felt better after I jettisoned them. I remember an episode with one who pitched a crying jag at 1:30 a.m. on a weeknight. I thought she'd wake my neighbors. I determined at that time to get her out of my life. My two neighbors (ladies) later told me that the gal was a user. That confirmed my decision to part ways.

Some of these toxic people are quite obvious, but the dangerous ones employ more subtlety. It seems that a lot of these types migrate to places like Washington, AC/DC.
Packetcap 1k posts, incept 2021-07-23
2023-09-03 14:30:04

10/10 on this Ticker.

All young men and young women need to be armed with this knowledge.
Smokeyblonde13 369 posts, incept 2021-10-29
2023-09-04 08:04:15

I was 40 before I learned this lesson. Wish I had learned it earlier; but better late than never.
Weezie 8k posts, incept 2008-05-19
2023-09-04 10:52:14

@Evergreen - People's Republic of Austin

jihad pressure cooker tea party guns Constitution Bill of Rights play doh squiggly line prepper home garden clusterfuck
Margbp 220 posts, incept 2021-12-02
2023-09-04 13:41:14

I am surprised there aren't more comments. I suppose the narcissists here don't have much to add and those living it don't need to comment.

But I believe it's getting worse in society. As someone mentioned the rails that keep these people in line (somewhat) have faded. I know that once my mother retired she got worse because she didn't have to keep up the facade for work. Now people have been given permission to be jerks to strangers because "covid".

"They act like this with everyone.It may take a while to notice the pattern, but it is unmistakable."

No,they don't always act this way with everyone. They can act "normal" if they want with certain people. I've had people come up to me and gush about how sweet and warm my mother is. This can be confusing when you're trying to sort out if it's you or the other person who has the problem. But then yes as you think about it you realize you only have a problem with this person and no one else and the other person has conflicts with many people that are never his or her fault.

The suggestion to ask questions is a good one though it can easily turn into an argument, a lecture or diatribe if you don't stay on point. Of course, then you know it's not about the subject but manipulation.

My most often used response is "I don't know". Drives them crazy! They may get frustrated but it does end the conversation pretty quickly.

I once had a person say to me I can't find a specific pen. So I helped in looking for it and when I found it was greeted with I knew you knew where it was. Of course, I hadn't. But I realized at that moment that he hadn't looked for it and that in every "helping" situation with this person I was always treated as if somehow the situation was my problem. So I stopped being helpful. If he couldn't find certain papers or even his glasses I wouldn't react. Didn't even suggest where to look. Wanted to know what time an event was I didn't know.

The master manipulator will simply make a comment and expect you to respond without ever asking you to do something specifically. (This leaves them room to criticize what you did as they never "asked" you to do that.)

My mother will call me and tell me she's out of milk. She refuses to ask me if I would mind going to get her milk or to take her. Her expectation is that I will stop what I'm doing and go get her milk. (She once told my brother she shouldn't have to ask as she's the mother.) But I don't run out then and instead I say I'm shopping later in the week and I can call then to get her grocery list. The woman then calls my daughter crying that she has no food and I won't take her to the store.

These toxic people have made a choice to be this way. Remember that.

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his desires depend upon his not understanding it.
~Upton Sinclair slightly paraphrased
Tickerguy 198k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2023-09-04 13:42:25

@Margbp -
But I believe it's getting worse in society. As someone mentioned the rails that keep these people in line (somewhat) have faded.

Well, it has never been true that on an interpersonal level you can "get away" with it and not face at least disgust. You will.

HOWEVER, on a societal level its a different game. There the check and balance is prosecutiton.

There were always homeless. Why didn't they shit in the street? Because you'd go to jail, that's why.


Ticker in queue on this...

"Anyone wearing a mask will be presumed to be intending armed robbery and immediately shot in the face. Govern yourself accordingly."
Nickdanger 1k posts, incept 2011-06-12
2023-09-04 14:43:23

My mother will call me and tell me she's out of milk. She refuses to ask me if I would mind going to get her milk or to take her. Her expectation is that I will stop what I'm doing and go get her milk. (She once told my brother she shouldn't have to ask as she's the mother.) But I don't run out then and instead I say I'm shopping later in the week and I can call then to get her grocery list. The woman then calls my daughter crying that she has no food and I won't take her to the store.

This sounds like my passive-aggressive mother RIP. She would ask me if I could do something, and get agitated if I didn't drop everything and do it RIGHT NOW. I remember once she asked me if I could take her to pick up a small bookcase she had seen at one of the big box stores. I was working out in the yard so I figured I would do it in the next day or so. Thirty minutes later she called and said 'where are you" on the exasperated voice she often used. I didn't realize it was an emergency! I had to distance myself from her to maintain my sanity.

-- I'm in the control group

-- In life, it's important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
Generalee 225 posts, incept 2011-04-30
2023-09-04 20:01:59

@Nickdanger I moved to the opposite corner of my state to get away from my family. 15 or so years ago wife & I had to throw them out from mother's behavior during a visit. Peace of mind is costly but priceless on the other side. My children haven't lost anything from not being in their life. Drama is what you pay movie theater for. I don't live it no more. The few texts I get are ALWAYS about them. Big fn deal.
Dan_e 168 posts, incept 2009-06-23
2023-09-05 07:52:49

@Generalee Haha, yes my mother used to complain that when her mother called for het birthday, she'd always immediately skip to the part of asking if she would be there at her mothers birthday 3 weeks later. Skip a few years and me moving across the country and lo and behold, every birthday card I got was 'when are you going to call me? / Will you be present at my birthday next week?'. Only too happy I'm finally done with that shit.
Doladin 153 posts, incept 2022-01-15
2023-09-06 08:34:35

I can't help but feel - are we as a society more narcissistic, or are we just giving more power to women?

I don't know many men that can be described as narcissistic. They are either successful psychopaths, or just useless complainers. Perhaps we give less time to them because they're male? We still have some vestige of chivalry, a natural tendency to protect and tolerate our women because at one point they were key to your tribes survival? But we are legally no longer allowed to tell them no?

Not sure if anyone here has worked at a medium to large white collar office lately (and I really mean post 2008 at least), but corporate culture is 100% feminine.

You can't have any confrontation and direct language.. but all of the techniques in the article are halal.
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