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2023-01-22 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Politics , 380 references Ignore this thread
Ignore The Political Grandstanding
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How soon everyone forgets....

If they didn't there'd already be a pitchfork parade outside the US House.

After Obamacare passed and the GOP subsequently took control of the chamber it voted more than fifty times to repeal the law.  During all of those times the Senate and/or White House was under Democrat control -- specifically, Obama in the latter case.  They knew damn well they had neither the votes to override his inevitable veto and the bill would likely never reach his desk in the first place.

Then Trump showed up.  On January 12th, 2017, with a House, Senate and GOP President the bill was voted down.  Three times in the Senate votes failed, with a Republican President (who would have signed it, of course.)

You can blame whatever you'd like for that, but the facts are that the GOP has never actually meant it otherwise it would not have taken 50 knowing-will-fail votes, all of which did nothing but give them something to solicit you for money upon.  When the tables were turned and in fact the GOP held both majorities and the Presidency the fact that they had solicited said money under false pretense was laid bare on the table.

Now we are back with the same claims that the GOP is going to "save America."

Don't get me wrong; I like the House rule changes, such as they are.  But exactly none of them are going to turn into the sort of thing that the House can actually do, irrespective of what the Senate or White House wants.  You see, if the House really means it when it comes to a specific legislative thing it has the absolute power to force it to be enacted.  This is the design of the US House and intended by the Founders.


It's quite simply really: All spending power comes from the House.

Article 1 Section 7 says:

All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

All spending must of course come from revenue and thus the House must originate all such bills.  Just in case you think they can get cute with this by attempting to deficit spend without a bill that raises any taxes the Founders considered this threat and foreclosed it in Article 1 Section 9:

No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.

No appropriation, no capacity to spend.

At all.

Therefore, since the House must introduce said bill, and the House and Senate must both pass said bill, even if the Senate demands something or the President does the US House can absolutely stop not just that spending but all spending unless it gets what it wants.

Yeah, that's a nuclear-level threat -- but its real, and it can't be overridden.

So the next time you're told that Congress "can't" do something, or that your specific Representative could not band together with others to do something, whatever it might be, they're lying.

Yes, they can.

They're refusing, not unable.

Never forget that no matter what the subject of debate is.

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Comments on Ignore The Political Grandstanding
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Cmoledor 1k posts, incept 2021-04-13
2023-01-22 09:41:47

This. All day every day. And sure as shit twice on Sunday. Fuck em.

The whole world is one big fucking scam
Why are you giving a vulgarity warning here? Our genial host is an advocate of both skullfucking and sodomy via rusty chainsaw. Credit to Rollformer
Blanca 504 posts, incept 2020-07-25
2023-01-22 09:41:47

All spending must of course come from revenue and thus the House must originate all such bills.
When the Rs owned the House, they always had this power, but as Karl noted, they didn't actually use it. I expect nothing different this time.

Stop the covid insanity - don't allocate money to the CDC and NIH.
Eliminate 87000 new IRS agents - reduce the IRS budget by $250K X 87000.
Stop the war in Ukraine - no more money for Zelensky.
Don't like firearm restrictions - zero the ATF budget.
Don't like Obamacare and its subsidies - zero the subsidy money.
Don't like the deep state - significantly reduce the offending organizations' budgets.
Don't want a DOE that promotes CRT. Zero its budget.

The Senate can do nothing about this, other than disapprove. It can't provide an alternative unless that alternative is negotiated with the House and the House agrees and "reoriginates" the bill. The President can't spend money he doesn't have.

The House could also refuse to raise the debt ceiling unless it gets what it wants. That would be the nuclear option, and I don't expect this kind of showdown.

Serious reform is forced on a nation when the money runs out. It'll involve a lot of pain. But nothing will happen until the seemingly endless supply of money slows.
Quantum 704 posts, incept 2021-05-18
2023-01-22 09:41:47

When the Republicans took the House in 2010 I naively thought it was game over and that Obama was going to be thwarted for exactly this reason. I pretty soon learned that the Rs were all talk no action. Other than the tax reduction bill passed during the Trump Administration, I have seen nothing to change that view.

Our God, will you not judge them? For we have no power to face this great multitude that is attacking us. We do not know what to do, but our eyes are on you. --2 Chron. 20:12
Boredfree 1k posts, incept 2021-09-15
2023-01-22 09:41:47

And Americans are refusing to hold these bastards accountable despite having the means.

Which set of thugs are most worrying? The gang bangers, or the government goons?

I'd bet if we stopped the goons, the bangers would mostly disappear too.

D.C. is the grifter's paradise, and arguing with the political class is a lot like trying to reason with a Karen. In the end you just want to hit them, but society frowns upon regular people committing violence.

Our society NEEDS to understand jury nullification, be informed of it during a court trials and begin to practice it.

Individuals should be kicking politicians in the groin, or bitch-slapping them in public and charges dropped as the greater population agrees with these actions.

Ain't happening.

At least we have, Unintended Consequences to read while fantasizing...

Have you punched a politician today?

The problem is most people want to point a finger rather than their thumb when dealing with challenges.
Bluto 2k posts, incept 2021-07-10
2023-01-22 10:22:21

Obamacare repeal was deep-sixed by the infamous "thumbs-down" McCain. Senators Collins and Murkowski were also "no" votes, but not surprises.

The question is "did the Republican leadership simply allow McCain to be the scapegoat for something they never really wanted to do in the first place?" I don't know the answer to that.

An interesting twist to the story is that after "thumbs down" selfishly died in office, he was replaced by the conservative John Kyl in Arizona, who would have certainly voted to repeal Obamacare. BUT, the Republicans lost the special Senate election in Alabama. So it would not have mattered. Losing that Senate race, which was filled with lies and intrigue, might have saved Obamacare.

"You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end -- which you can never afford to lose -- with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever
Charles.haddock 15 posts, incept 2022-11-02
2023-01-22 10:22:47

Not only did they do nothing about Obamacare, the GOP when in control of both houses of the legislature did nothing period. There was little in the way of substantive legislation passed in that entire era, beyond a half-hearted and temporary tax cut, and sanctions on Russia (the only near-unanimous legislation in recent times). Trump as president did everything he could to ensure that the untenable Everything Bubble went on. In addition, he and the entire GOP looked the other way while domestic surveillance and censorship expanded, and then made excuses -- I interpret this as tacit support for all of that stuff. The best way to regard the situation is that, if there is a nationalist-populist rebellion against the political system of the USA still ongoing, the GOP is a declared enemy of that rebellion and wants more than anything for it to go away. Those of us who want reforms are foolish to trust people who show by their actions everyday that they are against them.
Bluto 2k posts, incept 2021-07-10
2023-01-22 10:22:55

The Republicans have fought this battle several times in the past, with them losing everytime. And in each of those circumstances, they were in a much stronger position (numbers wise with regards to size of majority) that they are today.

Every time, the government got shut down, the Democrats worked with the media to demonize the Republicans, and the Republicans eventually caved. To add insult to injury, they then all voted to give back-pay to the federal workers for not working.

This time, they appear to be smarter by breaking up the budget into individual appropriations bills. That means the national parks won't have to close while the Republicans fight a battle over foreign aid or the border or some other issue. Unless the Senate refuses to take up a clean bill, or Biden vetos it. Then they can blame the Democrats. That is the first battle.

The next battle is the individual items within each appropriations bill. Such as building a border wall, or national E-verify, etc. This one is tough since the Republicans have such a small majority. If they lose 5 votes within their caucus, they are done. So I don't expect a lot of significant policy wins as a result. If they are smart, they will pick up a handful of items with 100% support within the caucus, and fight like hell by refusing to fund the departments until the Senate and Biden agree.

Also keep in mind that if they go too far right, they risk having several House seats flip in 2024 (enough to lose the House). There are many GOP House seats that are swing districts. So the calculus is "do you risk losing the House in 2024 to possibly secure small incremental victories in 2023?"

There is also a political calculus for the Democrats: "how hard do we fight these common sense reforms in the Senate, with nearly 10 seats at-risk in 2024?"

"You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end -- which you can never afford to lose -- with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever
Greenacr 732 posts, incept 2016-03-15
2023-01-22 10:23:09

My guess is that there is only a portion of the small gang of rebels who forced the rules changes in the House that have the balls to take the no spend, no appropriation route. Everyone else will support meaningless votes to fundraise under the guise of forcing the Democrats to take uncomfortable votes.

The ONLY thing that will force a change in behavior on the part of our so called elected leaders is MATH. Someday we run out of money and hard votes will need to be taken.
Chemman 333 posts, incept 2021-05-03
2023-01-22 13:09:36

@Bluto: "That means the national parks won't have to close while the Republicans fight a battle over foreign aid or the border or some other issue."

That was sheer Kabuki Theater. Each department was allowed to determine who was essential and had to continue working. Forest Service officers were always essential after all we don't want the hoi poi to poach the kings deer.

The leadership allowed, may I suggest told, McCain, and the two dames to vote down the repeal of O-Taxacare. They had the tools to force them to vote for the repeal if it really were what they wanted. The biggest tool was, fine, no pork for your state. Since they didn't use that tool the Pub leadership wanted the bill not to pass.
Edward.fish 436 posts, incept 2021-12-17
2023-01-22 13:09:57

Karl wrote..
So the next time you're told that Congress "can't" do something, or that your specific Representative could not band together with others to do something, whatever it might be, they're lying.

Yes, they can.

They're refusing, not unable.

@Tickerguy -- This is absolutely true.

And it's FAR more than merely spending, the Congress can impeach Presidents/VPs/Justices/Judges, and the Congress can also exempt any matter from the Supreme Court (excepting those falling under Original Jurisdiction) - and this is the reason that they push the obviously-bullshit lie about "three co-equal branches" when the Congress is so much more powerful: because it allows them to avoid accountability. -- Why didn't you repeal that bad law? "Because we couldn't get the votes!" becomes "We have to defer to the Judiciary!" or "We have to defer to the policies set by the executive!" when pressed.

It's really, really disgusting to see how ALL of the branches use that excuse of "It's the OTHER branch!" to avoid any accountability.
Workerbee23 197 posts, incept 2021-09-15
2023-01-22 13:10:14

they only lie, cheat and steal on days that end with "y"

just sayin'
Dingleberry 621 posts, incept 2011-11-06
2023-01-22 13:12:58

Greener is correct.

Math (a.k.a. "reality") is the only thing that stops this runaway train.

I would also add that not everyone who votes for repubs wants to end freebies for all. Many of today's repubs are yesterdays dems. And pretty much every dem I have ever met is a socialist or marxist. This means nothing will change. And since the Fed is now part and parcel of backstopping the gov ("QE"), the bond market is not the factor it once was (or maybe it never really was). The Fed fucking around with interest rates is only the icing. The cake is far more consequential. And the lies from the gov about economic stats are becoming farcical. But if you gonna lie....tell whoppers, and tell them often!

Besides, you won't be getting anywhere close to half of women voting to end socialism, and they are the majority. Those elected know this well, from both parties. And you know it, too.

Anytime an entitlement is even rumored to be cut....the karens come out in full force, led by their media masters. "Think of the childrens!!!"... "think of the (fill in the blank)!!"......"gets mines!!!" Boomers and their social security? Forgetaboutit...."I PAID INTO IT FOR DECADES!!!"

Just wait until we have another gov shut down. Watch closely who gets the "blame" and who clamors for bigger debts. And who wins politically. We've seen this movie before kids. And our nation was not as stupid or as "progressive" as it is now.

This is why inflation's necessary. As much as I dislike it, inflation forces everyone to pay with directly or indirectly for our collective fuckery. It is the fairest way, although certainly not fair. The masses want "freebies"....the masses can have them. And inflation is the tax they can pay. Obamacare was supposed to reign in costs...hell, even give you a couple grand back! Of course it did the exact opposite (as predicted) So much so that the unions and other dem idiots who endorsed it, quickly changed their minds once THEY got the bill. Thieves all.

Want "free" healthcare? How about housing? How about education? Well, the masses have spoken and prices in all three have EXPLODED. Serves them right. This is the price for stupidity and for thievery. And this is not even counting the "green energy" scam.

The young are being bribed with student loan bailout carrots. And they seem to be taking the bait. They actually believe they will get something for "free". So they will have to suffer, too. Spare them any sympathy.

Those in politics are on the take. How else do you go into office making a few hundred grand a year and leave with millions?

Those at the bottom are on the take, and have been for awhile. Generations even.

Then throw in the parasite banksters, constantly taking their vig. And bailed out when they get over their skis.

I suppose there will come a time for everyone else to jump on the freebie bandwagon, too.

Welcome to the third world. This is what it is like. Corruption from top to bottom.

And our nation is becoming increasingly corrupt, so let's share the blame. And put it where it primarily belongs: the people.

Lobo 1k posts, incept 2013-12-25
2023-01-22 13:13:03

The Rethuglicans have several press releases already lined up saying, "We tried real hard, but they were too much for us." Just like they always do.

Village Idiot

Reason: loose nut behind the keyboard
Sonoran_monk 2k posts, incept 2021-08-16
2023-01-22 13:13:12

I wouldn't even call cutting off spending a nuclear level response; nothing gets permanently destroyed and everyone gets back pay for their free vacation. They will have a temper tantrum like a kid who can't play with his Xbox for the weekend, but the fun(ding) will resume eventually.

Spending our money is the entire purpose for their existence. They are the most financially successful con game in history.
Whitehat 11k posts, incept 2017-06-27
2023-01-22 14:27:37

Since this is old news, not going to bother commenting to repeat what others have already said. Remember the so-called Republican Revolution in the late 80s and early 90s. Actually set the the precedent for what Clinton would eventually do.

Here is the kicker as someone mentioned women and them being more inclined to support socialism and being a majority voter base ...


Women are not monolithic as a political group. It is not all of them. The problem is that a good portion of men support this crap situation. If more men stood up, they would easily with the women and men already standing up, end this.

Blaming one group does no good. One must find out who supports what and apply my solution. Have to get around to writing it out one day. It is moral and legal, so no worries, however no one will do it, guaranteed.

smiley Je souhaite

Quod tu es, ego fui, quod ego sum, tu eris
Ingar 459 posts, incept 2017-02-14
2023-01-22 14:28:59

The evil party has successfully promoted socialism for the past six decades. They do have socialist core values. The stupid party has no core values other than standing for reelection. When in power, they have never rolled back any of the massive social welfare schemes, the morbidly obese "defense" budget, or any of the surveillance state. Look no further than the Dubyah the Idiot or Trump periods for proof of their ineptness.
Andyk 135 posts, incept 2008-09-21
2023-01-22 21:01:00

@ Dingleberry: Nice post.

We're officially now in the Looting Stage of the decline.
Get yours now before it's too late!
I have no idea how many other stages there are, but I fear it's one of the last.
Sundog 1 posts, incept 2022-12-23
2023-01-22 21:01:38

When it comes time to expand the debt ceiling, I think there will be 3 parties, the dims, the repubs, and the anti-McCarthy Right Fielders, altho there are only a few of them. The RFs certainly wont join with the dims and if they withhold support from a repubs position, things could get very interesting. And, the RFs dont care if their putative party gets blamed for a default, they might even welcome it.
Capcomp 351 posts, incept 2009-09-10
2023-01-22 22:06:50

If the House Republicans were serious (debatable) they would use the debt ceiling to force the Senate and the Brandon Admin to undo the Continuing Resolution that runs thru 9/30/23 (end of fiscal year).

IMO the Prior Demonscat House, Idiot Republicans in the Senate led by Mitch the Bitch and the Brandon Admin way overstepped on the CR and ought to be made to eat it.
Margbp 138 posts, incept 2021-12-02
2023-01-22 22:44:42

The elected officials aren't any different than regular folks. They just have a wider reach. I've been around those types all my life. I've been the outlier. Told I'm stubborn, obstinate. They make it personal. Ask me why can't I just accept what's said. If the doctor says do this I should do it no questions asked. If someone says in a meeting that's too hard or can't be done or that's the way it's always been done then I should agree.

I've stood up to bosses, teachers, even my own mother and my husband. I never understood people who didn't want to try. Who didn't want to fight. Who didn't want it better.

I've had some pretty good successes with that attitude.

But you know what? I'm done.

They think it's too hard? Fine. I don't care. Don't try. Keep complaining.
I'm not listening.

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his desires depend upon his not understanding it.
~Upton Sinclair slightly paraphrased
Latviski 187 posts, incept 2008-02-22
2023-01-23 10:27:41

Does anyone truly believe theres a material difference between elephants and asses?
This country has become divided between haves and have nots. R and D is theater, as are all politics in this country.
There are some lunatic fringes in both parties but rest assured , its one singular party, and were not invited.
Only option left is to crash it.

Vooker 88 posts, incept 2021-09-16
2023-01-23 10:27:45

Same old story. Same old story. Why even bother to comment? Nothing ever changes because it is structurally set up to prevent any major changes. The handful who have managed to get to the position of influence without major IOU's is so small that they are pissing into the wind. The only thing corrupt evil people understand is physical. In your face confrontation and accountability. Where are the snipers? It would only take a few. Less than 5 would send a world wide message. I truly wish I was younger to volunteer for the show. To see justice on earth, yea, I will dream on. It's all in theory right? It's all in jest, right? Is it free speech? Is it?
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