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 Finding Allies
Zek157 172 posts, incept 2009-03-05
2023-01-20 11:07:43

I didnt see any problem with doing the religious exemption as I basically told the faceless bureaucrat that would have processed it to diplomatically piss off. I did mine based on US v Ballard and US v Segar, which basically ruled one cannot be forced to do anything against their beliefs regardless of whether they are newly held beliefs, or even wrong. They dont even have to be religious in nature as long as they are deeply held by the individual.

The DOD request form had nine, or ten questions that basically led the applicant to be painted into a logical corner, so I repeated the statement that I requested an exemption based on the above rulings and required my attorney to be present if they had any further questions.

They were never processed.

Bluto 2k posts, incept 2021-07-10
2023-01-20 20:08:54

The best religious exemption CLAIM I heard was:

"My sincerely held religious beliefs require me to obey my husband. He told me "no vaccine"."

Short. Concise. Bulletproof. And it drives the leftists insane.

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"You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end -- which you can never afford to lose -- with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever
Tasha 152 posts, incept 2009-05-27
2023-01-20 21:23:06

When I was presented with the religious exemption "request", I crossed out any wording that suggested I was "requesting" anything and replaced it with language that clearly stated I was asserting my right to a religious exemption. In the space where I was asked to explain my reasoning, I wrote "My reasons are religious, philosophical, moral and personal in nature, and are not subject to review." I made one mistake, though and I've been kicking myself ever since. There was a space where I was supposed to declare whether or not I had ever been vaccinated for anything in my life. I (honestly) stated that I had never been vaccinated in my adult life. I added that I was not responsible for any childhood vaccinations and had no way to know if they'd occurred because my parents are both dead. I wish I had just told them NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!

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"we fed them to jackals to save them from bunnies",
el gato malo 1/5/22
Gm729 18 posts, incept 2021-08-21
2023-01-20 21:56:04

Jackamok wrote..
You have that completely backwards. It's not asking for a religious exemption, it's stating one, backed up by the implied threat "and I can sue you for religious discrimination if you ignore this statement now that I have put you on notice.


Yep, I asserted and then when the form asked to identify the belief, observance or practice, I truthfully stated
Quote:
I am not detailing these for reasonable fear of discrimination against me or my family if others know them.


So ....Maybe God told me "Don't be stupid" or "Karl makes sense", who knows.

But please dear HR person, think it is the belief that annoys you the MOST, and then fuck off.

Zero push back, approved. I sleep just fine. No lies at all.
Nelstomlinson 824 posts, incept 2011-12-21
2023-01-21 19:15:46

Tasha and Zek have the right idea: you assert your right to exemption. There really isn't a solid safe haven for the employer to say no. The employer push back comes in the reasonable accommodation stage, if it comes at all.

Since the DOD had already decreed how contractors would accommodate us, that r a door to push back was closed. The accommodation was weekly testing.

I told the people who reported to me "Take a test kit from the girls in the office. Now you've taken a test. Now throw it away, and report 'negative.'"
Tasha 152 posts, incept 2009-05-27
2023-01-21 22:54:43

I didn't consider weekly testing to be an accommodation, at all. I have the same objections to compulsory testing as I did to the stab itself. In my case (and probably in many other instances), the testing was clearly set up to be a punishment. One had to go to a specified center over an hour away, that was only open during working hours. The test had to be done no earlier than Thursday afternoon or Friday of the week prior, and results had to be posted to a central reporting place by Monday morning. If your results were not in by Monday morning, you could not report to work and had to use personal/vacation time if you wanted to get paid. I heard disturbing stories of the people who weren't allowed to take adequate time off of work to get to the center before closing, or whose results weren't ready by the Monday deadline, etc. It caused tremendous stress, pushback from the sheep at work who had to fill in for the person going to the center, etc. It also clearly marked all of the dissenters and set them up as the evil "anti-you-know-what-ers". In my opinion, it was a blatant, obnoxious retaliation and NOT an accommodation.

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"we fed them to jackals to save them from bunnies",
el gato malo 1/5/22
Sloonie 2k posts, incept 2008-04-16
2023-01-22 09:45:14

Dang, Tasha, tried to PM you, but not available, so here ya go!
OMG, your avatar...could be my amazing (long gone) Igor.....is that a Russian Blue?
He is beautiful.
I dream of again having one, as well as a Siamese.
Ok...over and out.
Sloonie

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"If might is right, then love has no place in the world. It may be so, it may be so. But I don't have the strength to live in a world like that..."-Father Gabriel, 'The Mission'


Eleua 21k posts, incept 2007-07-05
2023-01-22 09:45:23

Quote:
They dont even have to be religious in nature as long as they are deeply held by the individual.


I'm not so sure about that. The courts have generally disallowed "philosophical" arguments to pass as religious arguments.

The courts have said that the .gov/courts/employers cannot define what religion is, but they can call smiley on philosophical arguments.

That's a fine line that a good attorney will be able to draw for you.

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Diversity + proximity = WAR

-They wanted camps; I want ropes.
Mjeff87 1k posts, incept 2021-11-22
2023-01-22 09:45:32

My employer picked the most obscure, out of the way place for weekly testing. But it was perfect for me because it was right by my house (the other 98% of my agency lives north of me, in and around Richmond). I used to make a full morning out of it. They didn't open until 0900, so every Wednesday I would sleep in, go directly there when they opened for testing, then had a full breakfast out somewhere, usually Waffle House, and THEN go into the office. I didn't have to use a minute of my leave either. I resented having to get it done at all, but I figured if they were fucking me into it I was going to fuck them right back.

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Si Vis Pacem, para Bellum

If you look like shit, then you are shit.
Workerbee 5k posts, incept 2009-03-18
2023-01-22 10:33:46

I did weekly self testing.
The ambient air at my workplace was always 100% negative.

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'Keep pushing fuckers, you'll find the trip wire eventually'
~ Quik49

'This is the part where you find out who you are'
Bluto 2k posts, incept 2021-07-10
2023-01-22 10:33:49

@Eleua I believe the winning phrase is "sincerely held moral beliefs", and my understanding is they have held up in court just as strong as religious beliefs.


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"You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end -- which you can never afford to lose -- with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever
Tasha 152 posts, incept 2009-05-27
2023-01-22 13:14:22

Sloonie wrote..
Dang, Tasha, tried to PM you, but not available, so here ya go!
OMG, your avatar...could be my amazing (long gone) Igor.....is that a Russian Blue?
He is beautiful.
I dream of again having one, as well as a Siamese.
Ok...over and out.
Sloonie


Yes, my avatar is my beloved cat, the real Tasha (I'm just a shameless imposter). She was a Russian Blue. She was with us for twenty years and sadly passed away about a year ago. I'm still completely heartbroken about losing her.

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"we fed them to jackals to save them from bunnies",
el gato malo 1/5/22

Zek157 172 posts, incept 2009-03-05
2023-01-22 21:32:14

Eluea

US v Seegar amplified the Ballard ruling and provides cover for pretty much any belief:

- A person can have conscientious objector status based on a belief that has a similar position in that person's life to the belief in God.

In a unanimous decision authored by Justice Clark, the Court ruled that the statute was constitutional. Since there are over 250 religious groups in the United States, the Court reasoned, Congress could not be expected to specifically cover each of them in this federal law. In general, a conscientious objection is based on a religious belief rather than political, sociological, or philosophical views. The term "Supreme Being" should be interpreted to cover all types of faith, and the defendant's belief system fell within them, so it qualified for the exemption. However, the statute was held to be constitutional on its face.
Eleua 21k posts, incept 2007-07-05
2023-01-22 22:44:23

Correct, but the court did not protect philosophical beliefs, but specifically religious beliefs, and the spectrum of that is broader than the court can care to define.

The first amendment protects religion, not philosophy.

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Diversity + proximity = WAR

-They wanted camps; I want ropes.
Doladin 85 posts, incept 2022-01-15
2023-01-24 08:56:19

I cannot agree with those saying that exemptions/fake passes are cowardly - this was an all out war against the citizenry, and most fell in line.

I understand many here are well past midlife and have their assets and finances readying for their retirement years - well, there's many young people at the coalface of the culture wars that need to jostle, position, and ultimately still try to remain in the middle class raising a family. The State is incredibly powerful in ruining your livelihood if you commit wrongthink!

I fully agree with the ethos of not giving consent, but the reality is - nearly everyone gave consent immediately! There was very little divide and conquer necessary.

That said, in Australia with no Bill of Rights, they brought in riot police, rubber bullets, and even directed energy weapons to protesters. Unions brought in criminal bikers to bash their members that disagreed.

As other posters have alluded to - Conservatives just love the high ground and losing the culture war. Christians as well are terrible for this. Society is on a strong downward decline, those that have our wits about us need to start scrapping!

Tickerguy 192k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2023-01-24 09:02:21

@Doladin if this was an "all-out war" then those who were coerced should have killed every coercing party. All of them, no exceptions, and burned their homes.

"Oh no, we couldn't do that!"

Well then you just let them kill YOU. This is no different than waking up in the middle of the night to the commotion of a big 240lb black dude on top of your wife raping her. He has no gun; he's just big with a 12" dick up your wife's snatch. You have a gun in the nightstand you can reach in 2 seconds, and you decide NOT to shoot him.

Fine. That's your call; it's only your wife after all.

You didn't need a gun either. Gas is cheap, an old beer bottle works fine, you have your car, golf clubs, a baseball bat, a garden hoe or even a big-ass kitchen knife and you also had 100:1 or better numerical superiority so save me the bluster and bullshit about "there were no options." Your local big-box store has enough hand and power tools to bring ruin to any modest rural or suburban thug government goons if you're willing to go get and use them. How many CHAIN SAWS does your local Lowes have sitting in boxes, as just one example of dozens.

IF you believe it was indeed a war, well, during war people die. Frequently horribly. Its NEVER a walk in the park. WAR ALWAYS SUCKS but if someone declares it upon you the choices are two: You get that son-of-a-bitch and send him to Hell or he's going to to do it to you.

If that's your point of view -- that your wife's pussy being plundered was acceptable because you wouldn't take the RISK of going for the gun and killing that motherfucker in mid-stroke -- then shut the fuck up.

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The difference between "kill" and "murder" is that murder, as a subset of kill, is undeserved by the deceased.

Shadowmask 5k posts, incept 2021-05-24
2023-01-24 10:10:44

@doladin

If the citizenry is that cowardly, they will walk themselves in the boxcars. Stop defending that level of bullshit cowardice. It makes you look like an asshole who wants his wife to get raped and a Grade A whiner.

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Sportsball Team A: 3 Sportsball Team B: 3
Clot Shot: 0
Proverbs16.33 258 posts, incept 2021-10-22
2023-01-24 17:19:27

@GRF - I had not heard of that Peoples' Rights organization, but I'm sure I'm not the only one here with reservations about signing up for a CIA tracking - I mean registration - I mean...ok yeah, as interesting as that looks, probably not going to sign up.
@Wtfishappening - it is a lovely area, and after reading some of the comments later in the thread, I am blessed to have *some* trusted people around. But perhaps after reading too much survival fiction, I am keenly aware that there ain't many of us for sure, especially within walking distance.
I'm just waiting for the Ticker Forum mountain meet-up, where we all leave cell phones and tracking devices at home, use code names, allow no photography, etc.
:)
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