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 The Twitter Paradox
Lunatic_fringe 9k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-11-19 12:06:28

Now do government employees.
Sraven 82 posts, incept 2010-07-29
2022-11-19 12:06:33

If you think Twitter was bloated with non performing sycophants . . .

You should get a load of the Government
Blanca 486 posts, incept 2020-07-25
2022-11-19 12:06:50

A couple of days ago, Fred Brooks, manager of the development effort for IBM OS-360 and author of the classic "The Mythical Man-Month" died at 91. Originally written in the 1970s, the book's characterizations of software development are just as relevant today as they were then. Some pearls:
1. Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later.
2. The bearing of a child takes nine months, no matter how many women are assigned.
3. The best programmers are 10X more productive than the worst.
Very few software managers I had ever read the book. If they did, they might have found that everything they were doing was destined to failure as described in the book!
Thelazer 1k posts, incept 2009-05-11
2022-11-19 12:07:00

Would be amazing if say ZuckFuck and Bezelbob took some of musk's staffing ideas to heart. Oh it would be so amazing. I've meet a few of these "Dev" types who write no fucking code, but get paid like they are some jesus come rock star.

easily HALF of the tech sector could be fired and not one f'ing thing would break.
Tickerguy 190k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-11-19 12:12:59

@Blanca - Yep.

It is my direct experience managing coding that ONLY if I have unbridled capacity to hire and fire as I see fit is it worth it for me to have ANYONE other than myself work on whatever it is.

Otherwise its literally faster for me to lock myself in a room and write the entire fucking thing myself.

That's no bullshit.

Incidentally there's a "public" project I recently started fucking around with because it was possibly quite useful to me. Within an hour I identified a particular misbehavior that was extremely damaging to data throughput and in another couple of hours I figured out where the problem was and how to stop it with, literally, ONE line of code and a couple of #ifdefs.

I contributed that back as a pull request and as of last check a week or so ago...... it remains uncommitted, even though for EVERY user on this particular OS platform without it the code badly malfunctions in terms of performance and generally fucking with the throughput of not only THAT application but anything on the same machine at the same time.


The difference between "kill" and "murder" is that murder, as a subset of kill, is undeserved by the deceased.
Blanca 486 posts, incept 2020-07-25
2022-11-19 12:26:33

I hate much of the code review process. My rules for approval are simple. Does the code work better than it did before? If yes, Approved. Unfortunately I now get bogged down with questions like how does this work I dont know Java or you need to change this variable name or use a switch instead of an if or you dont have sufficient unit test coverage. Maddening. 389 posts, incept 2021-12-17
2022-11-19 12:51:20

Tickerguy wrote.. - Where you're dead wrong on this is the number of said "employees" who in fact have negative value but cannot be fired due to HR interference (and were HR-style hires in the first place.) This was bad in the late 80s/early 90s among corporate America; I have personal experience trying to offload someone in that category and couldn't.

@Tickerguy -- Oh, I'm not at all saying there aren't negative-value employees. There are. (HR and especially DIE seem to attract these sorts; note that 'HR' is very different from 'personnel'.) -- I'm just observing that (a) there's often an "inertia" involved, and (b) there's a lot of management where warnings are ignored (or minimally addressed; "slapping on a band-aid") until things are at that Things Are On Fire! point.

Today? Ha! I'll bet HALF of the employees in most 'tech' organizations have negative value to the firm in that not only do they suck up their salary and benefits they fuck things up and others have to fix it.

You're probably right, the problem though is that it typically takes some time & knowledge/familiarity to know which half of technical-positions are filled with those*... the mass layoffs seem to be too quick to account for the uptake of that knowledge, and while hiring replacements is an option today's tech-jobs tend to be fairly slow in the hiring process. (IMO, precisely because of HR.)

* And, if the management people have been infiltrated by those negative-value types, then you cannot trust their evaluation of who is negative-value.
Kirklandguy 53 posts, incept 2022-02-14
2022-11-19 12:51:51


Thanks for that - RIP Fred Brooks. The Mythical Man-Month is on my required reading list for any new lead/manager our division hires.
It is amazing almost 50 years after it was written how true it still rings...and how much software managers/directors continue to make the same mistakes the book discusses.

I watched from afar a couple years ago as another group hired 10 offshore developers to "bring in" the date of an already delayed project.
If you read Brooks' book, you can guess how that went.
Traelin0 533 posts, incept 2021-01-28
2022-11-19 13:08:03

Blanca wrote..
Most of the stuff that we use now is bloated, inefficient, and contains numerous useless features.

Especially automobiles. I am so fucking SICK of my wife's Explorer honking twice when I have it running, get out, and close the door. Every other time it makes me jump.

And the stupid mother fucker locks the doors automagically.

WTF happened to sticking a key in a lock and turning it? Damn, I have GOT to get my First Gen Cummins' head gasket replaced and the heads machined. I'm done with anything built after the late '90s.

Peterm99 9k posts, incept 2009-03-21
2022-11-19 13:19:15

IMO, the ever-increasing push for UBI is driven in large part to support those who are not and/or cannot be productive in a real work environment.

The mind-set that changed "unemployment benefits" and especially "welfare benefits" from programs intended to provide transitory assistance into long-term support that almost becomes a "way of life" is almost certain to eventually result in UBI-type support for the large numbers of parasites that our society has encouraged to develop over recent decades. Because of this, society-at-large will still be on the hook to support the non-productive even if businesses wise up and try to eliminate those employees.

Of course, that can-kicking will only work until the gov't becomes unable to pay the bills, and the inevitable crash forces a complete reset which will eventually cleanse the entire system. That process won't be pretty.

". . . the Constitution has died, the economy welters in irreversible decline, we have perpetual war, all power lies in the hands of the executive, the police are supreme, and a surveillance b 389 posts, incept 2021-12-17
2022-11-19 13:20:27

Traelin0 wrote..
WTF happened to sticking a key in a lock and turning it? Damn, I have GOT to get my First Gen Cummins' head gasket replaced and the heads machined. I'm done with anything built after the late '90s.

@Traelin0 -- Two things happened: (1) the car-manufacturers got high on the "futuristic, electronic, Power-X*!" hype, and (2) the tech-minded corporations are pushing everything to a you-don't-own-but-rent... and what better way than to have doors that you can only unlock with "OnStar Extortion Protection System**" where it phones home to make sure that particular feature is enabled?

* -- Windows, Locks, Seats, etc.
** -- Tied to your Google Alexa NSA spy-account, "for your convienience".
Augeries 351 posts, incept 2019-09-26
2022-11-19 13:24:35

I have a coworker who is learning Python and such to attempt a career change. Apparently all his coder friends work from home for six figures and do about 3 hours of work a day. I'm tempted to try the same, but then I hear of things like this and I wonder if its a good idea to jump in on the scam just as its about to blow up.

My whole career so far has been in manufacturing and I agree that the pareto principle is true. For me it wasn't that the 80% do nothing, but they can't rescue themselves from a problem no matter how many times I teach them how, or how much planning I wrote for them, or how many Lean Specialists got thrown at it. There were a few people per cell that Knew Their Shit and carried everyone else daily. Myself and several other of these types are no longer around at that shop and I hear it is not going well. Hope those rags and shots were worth it.

The World is Quiet Here.
Blanca 486 posts, incept 2020-07-25
2022-11-19 13:26:14

I can't tell you how many times I have been on projects where more people were added to bring in the schedule. I pleaded with management not to do that as it would extend the schedule. My warnings were always ignored (management has to show they are doing something, even when it's counterproductive). And the result was always the same. Old-timers were used to train the new-comers. Thus we weren't coding.
Tickerguy 190k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-11-19 13:26:00

Virtually all of the HLLs are dogshit and exist only because they make it possible for incompetent people to write code and have it mostly work.

At huge overhead cost and, in certain applications, that overhead goes exponential on you which is a very, very large problem -- especially if you don't anticipate it before you get fucked by it.

The difference between "kill" and "murder" is that murder, as a subset of kill, is undeserved by the deceased.
Blanca 486 posts, incept 2020-07-25
2022-11-19 13:36:22

Some time ago I saw these quotes on programming languages:

Lisp is like a finely choreographed ballet.
Ada is like a waltz of drugged elephants.
C is like a sword-dance on a freshly waxed floor.
With C, it is easy to shoot yourself in the foot. With C++, you don't shoot yourself in the foot so often, but when you do, you blow off your whole leg.
Dcsleeper 609 posts, incept 2012-10-11
2022-11-19 13:36:29

Four fucking wheels and a seat!
Jazen 4k posts, incept 2007-07-17
2022-11-19 13:36:32

Don't forget Amazon. They will have a lot of cost cutting when Xmas sales tank

I hate our Government, but I still love America.
Whitehat 11k posts, incept 2017-06-27
2022-11-19 14:02:34

Warned a lot of people in my group not to get too cavalier with the employment situation over these past few years where there was a "shortage" of employees.

Even the VIP and RIP and dropping out were a risk, told them.

The world changes faster than one realizes. And, if unemployment lowers inflation faster than collapsing asset prices commensurately, which do you think will be the focus?

One can get the justification for being mercenary as an employee and not giving a shit, however when times change who is remembered? Do not have to be a star, just not the first worst out is sometimes good enough.

Same with tenants who called on me during COVID-BS to see if they, "should do it." My response was that years later, perhaps not so many years later, the landlord will not forget who did not cheat him and additionally will be more than happy to provide a good tenant reference to another.

times change.

smiley Je souhaite

Quod tu es, ego fui, quod ego sum, tu eris
Eleua 21k posts, incept 2007-07-05
2022-11-19 14:20:04

Let me start by saying that I have never hired anybody. I dont own a business and likely never will. So, this is pure conjecture.

Given that there is a tremendous social cost to hiring straight white males, how many straight white males are dead weight? It would seem to me that if youre going to be punished for hiring straight white males, they had better be damn productive, otherwise there is double good reason to never hire them.

How much of all of this emphasis on diversity and inclusion and equity is nothing more than hiring deadweight?

If you had a business, and the politicians and human resources told you had to hire certain people just because of gender, race, orientation, whatever, would it be cheaper to just put them in a room with a coloring book and a title and give them a six-figure salary, or would you actually want them to go out and fuck everything up and then have the straight white males come in and unfuck it?

Looking for some experience from the business owners or former business owners on this forum. I have my hunches.

Diversity + proximity = WAR

-They wanted camps; I want ropes.

Reason: Vox transcription issues 389 posts, incept 2021-12-17
2022-11-19 14:20:28

Tickerguy wrote..
Virtually all of the HLLs are dogshit and exist only because they make it possible for incompetent people to write code and have it mostly work.

@Tickerguy -- I understand where you're coming from here and somewhat agree, but I think the bigger issue is the management failure where they push out half-baked features and half-solutions, trying to "fake it until you make it" as their underlying strategy, and/or the "find a library that does it, then glue it to the codebase!"-style "library-driven development".

Blanca wrote..
Some time ago I saw these quotes on programming languages:
Lisp is like a finely choreographed ballet.
Ada is like a waltz of drugged elephants.
C is like a sword-dance on a freshly waxed floor.
With C, it is easy to shoot yourself in the foot. With C++, you don't shoot yourself in the foot so often, but when you do, you blow off your whole leg.

@Blanca -- Thanks for the chuckle.

I actually really like Ada, it's really nice being able to leverage the type-system to model your problem; consider some manufacturing where you have a Part-ID that is a sequence of six numbers followed by two upper-case letters:
Type Part_ID is new String(1..8)
with Dynamic_Predicate => ((for all C of Part_ID(Part_ID'First..Part_ID'Last-2) => C in '0'..'9')
and then (for all C of Part_ID(Part_ID'Last-1..Part_ID'Last) => C in 'A'..'Z'))
or else raise Format_Error with "Malformed Part #" & String(Part_ID);

And now the compiler can catch bad values, raising Format_Error when appropriate, as well as doing some nice optimizations. (By attaching the constraint to the type, e.g. the compiler can take calls of Function F(X:Part_ID) return Part_ID in something like F(F(F(X))) and optimize the call-chain to only check X for compliance, as every nested call will either return a valid Part_ID or else raise an exception.)
3-market-thinker 55 posts, incept 2022-02-06
2022-11-19 14:24:19

I regularly look on Tik Tok investors Twitter page.

It shows videos of all the tech workers "selfies" of their working days in these companies like Meta etc.

I can't believe how these tech companies have lasted this long.

The workers lounge about sipping lattes all day and I am not exaggerating.

Go look on their uploaded videos and see for yourselves the extravagance in these companies.

Mega buffets for lunch etc.

The workers are totally unproductive.

I will go on record by stating those companies like Meta and Snapchat will go bankrupt by the end of the decade.

I will be amazed if they last longer than that.

Twitter might do okay as it appears Elon will be having a clear out.

But most stock prices will go to zero.

This is an amazing time we are living in.

The history books will look back on this time and wonder how this cheap capital lasted as long as it did.

And those tech workers will get the mother of all reality checks when they are fired and have to find real jobs in real companies to pay their bills.

Those gluten free, avocado on toast $25 snacks might be few and far between when that day comes.

If it doesn't come you can say goodbye to any glimmer of hope America gets out of the mess it is in and stick a fork in it.
Eleua 21k posts, incept 2007-07-05
2022-11-19 14:30:54

Quite a few of these companies are nothing more than TLA start ups. They can go forever without turning a profit, because its what the ruling class and the government want to undermine society as a whole.

Diversity + proximity = WAR

-They wanted camps; I want ropes.
Veeger 877 posts, incept 2013-02-13
2022-11-19 14:31:04


As a business owner, you dont higher help that doesnt add to the bottom line-at least not and stay profitable.

Large businesses are run on a day to day basis by non-owners. Here personal terrotory and power accumulation tend to govern the hiring process. Sure, one may have to justify it to the big bosses but they just need a bs / cya piece of paper and they dont are after that.

In our bouse we talk about having upper management that thi ks like an owner ( and we rewaed accordingly). Ones who dont, wont, or cant have no future with us and suffer the consequenceseventually. We have long memories

I remember the Diamond Princess.

Slowly at first, then all of a sudden.
Eleua 21k posts, incept 2007-07-05
2022-11-19 14:43:49


That all makes sense to me. I guess what Im wondering is, if you are in a larger business and you get mandated to hire diversity, even when you dont want to, do you still take somebody on for the job? If you do, how do you manage that? Do you also have someone competent to come in and clean up after them?

I am not talking about diversity that is otherwise competent.

Diversity + proximity = WAR

-They wanted camps; I want ropes.
Sonoran_monk 1k posts, incept 2021-08-16
2022-11-19 14:46:47

How many people work at Twitter? About half of them. Probably a square root of those people are really productive. I love that Elon is having an Office Space, "so what is it you'd say you do here?" moment.

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