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 The NEW Political Party
Vernonb 2k posts, incept 2009-06-03
2022-11-18 15:39:49

Count me in. Time for the tree of liberty to be renewed.

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"Mass intelligence does not mean intelligent masses."
Jack_crabb 15k posts, incept 2010-06-25
2022-11-18 16:09:34

Quote:
Time for the tree of liberty to be renewed.



It's more than just a little overdue.

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Molon Labe
Where is Henry Bowman when you need him?
How many are willing to pledge this? We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor
Pilot 2k posts, incept 2008-10-15
2022-11-18 16:09:41

I'll second the addition of strict Term limits.

Also, Campaign finance reform, IE severe limits on contributions and spending caps on campaigns in general.

Reform the entire corrupt system of Lobbying and Lobbyists.

Like this Idea.


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"Alas, alas, that great city of Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour thy judgment come"
Tonythetiger 754 posts, incept 2019-01-27
2022-11-18 16:09:45


Some thoughts off the top of my head:

1) I'd be more strict with the budgetary stuff. Budget this year is limited to tax revenue collected last year, or less. No exceptions. If you ain't already got it, you can't spend it. Period. Full Stop. If the money runs out, then the government shuts down until the next fiscal year begins. (plus, no back pay for government employees when it shuts down)

2) Put last year's taxes into investment grade corporate bonds and use the interest collected to pay down the current debt. After the debt is gone, the interest is refunded to taxpayers.

3) "Emergency" War declaration only for actual 'boots on the ground' invasions of one of the 50 States. The Emergency can last no longer than it takes to repel the invasion. TG's time limit for ending an Emergency should apply to all other cases with a default result of ending the Emergency.

4) Constitution must guarantee States the right to secede for any reason they deem sufficient.

5) Excise taxes only. Forbid any tax on Income permanently. States collect excise taxes and remit to Federal Government. States can withhold said taxes as a form of protest over "what the Constitution means".

6) Any member of the DOJ who fails to bring charges for violations of Constitutional Law should immediately be charged with Treason and prosecuted by an appointed counsel. Conviction brings mandatory jail time and loss of all accumulated pension / leave / sick days plus a permanent ban on working for the Federal government.

6) Establish an independent body whose sole purpose is to find violations of the Law by government employees. They should prosecute their cases outside the DOJ.

Add those to TG's list and I think we're off to a good start.








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"War is when the Government tells you who the bad guy is. Revolution is when you decide that for yourself." - Benjamin Franklin
Octal 4 posts, incept 2022-01-01
2022-11-18 16:25:34

I'm all for it. What is the next step?



Thomdd1959 87 posts, incept 2013-02-17
2022-11-18 17:02:19

"If we required Congress to stay within the enumerated powers, two things would happen:

The job of US Senator or Representative would be so boring, few would want to be reelected. After all, how many times can you revise the bankruptcy code (authorized by I, 8, cl. 4); fix the Standard of Weights and Measures (authorized by Art. I, 8, cl.5); and organize the Patent and Copyright Office (authorized by Art. I, 8, cl.8)?

There would be no opportunity to get rich while in Congress or build a power base. Also, the office would no longer attract those who go into politics for the sake of their own egos, pocketbooks, and neurotic power lust. -- Publius Huldah

https://newswithviews.com/term-limits-a-....

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Government only works for the benefit of the people when it is conducted in the full light of day. -- Karl Denninger
Idiom 312 posts, incept 2015-02-20
2022-11-18 18:12:28

Needs a few things.

Ending bribes, like corn subsidies etc.

no cementing power, gerry-mandering should be replaced with simple open algorithms.

Gotta nuke lobbying somehow.

And while enforcing the constitutional processes will fix a bunch on its own, the constitutions sins need to be addressed. They continue to plague America.

By that I mean all of the treaty violations with natives that happened to support 'public - private partnership' horseshit like the trans-continental railroads. Re-segregation in the 1920's attacked black capitalism and public policy has been aimed at stopping black capital from rebuilding.

The constitution and capitalism have to be about *all* the people.

Also letting Texas and California secede simultaneously wouldn't be the worst... Basically the amount of power concentrated in D.C. is insane, and its very easy to get wealthy real fucking fast by dicking with it. Power needs to be devolved to the states, and everything that remains needs to be really simple and transparent in its frameworks. Like the federal tax code should be less than 200 pages. etc. Not that the Fed Gov can't do complicated things, but its regulations need to be very plain english and short.
Sonoran_monk 1k posts, incept 2021-08-16
2022-11-18 18:12:36

Agree Thom - Make American Government Boring Again.
Dbigkahunna 477 posts, incept 2010-01-10
2022-11-18 18:45:05

Accumulating power makes relinquishing it mucho difficult. We have passed the point where the productive serve the non-productive. Will the non-productive allow the productive to go their own way?
I think not!
Both parties depend on each other. They are mirror siameese twins and cannot survive without the other. The Democrats will not let it happen and the Republicians will not allow it.

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Blessed, Grateful and Living a Dream
Nelstomlinson 778 posts, incept 2011-12-21
2022-11-18 18:45:21

I voted for Trump in '16 hoping he would destroy the GOP. He was a total disappointment.

Your Federalist platform would be a surefire winner anywhere votes were counted honestly.
Asimov 140k posts, incept 2007-08-26
2022-11-18 18:45:30

You probably don't want me associated with it, but it sounds good to me. Tell me how I can help.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Traelin0 533 posts, incept 2021-01-28
2022-11-18 19:02:12

Jw. wrote..
Would be very interesting to see how the Uni-Party reacts. We just might see some real partisan politics in action. I would imagine both Dems and Repubs would pull out all the stops to make sure their stranglehold on power and corruption remains. It would not surprise me if both parties voted to not allow a new party, we would finally see the tyrants in DC for who they really are.

We already know how they colluded to change debate rules after Ross Perot's run. It'd be all but impossible for a third party to get on the debate stage in 2022, given the 24/7 bombardment of agitprop and censorship on social media. Plus the pollsters...oh, the pollsters.

https://www.courthousenews.com/court-rej....
Traelin0 533 posts, incept 2021-01-28
2022-11-18 19:26:55

Tonythetiger wrote..
1) I'd be more strict with the budgetary stuff. Budget this year is limited to tax revenue collected last year, or less. No exceptions. If you ain't already got it, you can't spend it. Period. Full Stop. If the money runs out, then the government shuts down until the next fiscal year begins. (plus, no back pay for government employees when it shuts down)

This. Governments so rarely pay off debts that it makes no sense to allow them to borrow. Jefferson was right. You could reduce ten wars to one by prohibiting bond issuance.

Europe is notorious for inflating away currencies and lopping zeros off new issuances. It's the same story throughout history across all cultures. Governments never intend to pay back debt.

If I could have one change to the Constitution, it'd be kneecapping their ability to borrow.
Edward.fish 389 posts, incept 2021-12-17
2022-11-18 19:48:59

Nelstomlinson wrote..
I voted for Trump in '16 hoping he would destroy the GOP. He was a total disappointment.

@Nelstomlinson -- Sometimes things take a little longer than anticipated, but look at how 2022 showed us exactly what the GOP is made of... look at how Trump has destroyed pretty much any reason to support him... IOW, a Trump 2024 will destroy the GOP: if he wins, he'll be all about gay hispanic black women and giving head to Israel... if he loses the RNC will take it to mean that "populism has failed, we should be more like the Democrat party!" -- IOW, it's exactly the same proposition being pushed by education WRT the economy: manipulating everything, disguising it as "capitalism", then when it collapses screaming about how capitalism has failed... all with the sleight-of-hand that the controlled & manipulated economy is NOT capitalism.
Nickdanger 1k posts, incept 2011-06-12
2022-11-18 19:59:27

One thing I believe should be mandatory. It would be illegal to propose and pass bills that have more than one issue included. This would eliminate the ability to bury stuff in the bills that end up being hundreds or thousands of pages long and costing the taxpayers. This would go a long way to eliminating the lobbying problems because all proposals would be in the open, not hidden on page 504 of the paper stack.

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-- I'm in the control group

-- In life, it's important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
Nelstomlinson 778 posts, incept 2011-12-21
2022-11-18 20:12:29

Quote:
This would eliminate the ability to bury stuff in the bills that end up being hundreds or thousands of pages long...

How 'bout a character limit for bills, say 5,000 characters, including spaces and punctuation? It would be pretty hard to hide much in a thousand words.
Chromehill 882 posts, incept 2010-03-03
2022-11-18 20:28:50

@Traelin0 - To win elections you no longer have to debate or even make appearances. We have Joe Biden and Katie Hobbs as proof.

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'Power, like the reproductive muscle, longs to be exercised, often without judgement or right' - Gerry Spence
Veeger 877 posts, incept 2013-02-13
2022-11-19 09:07:49

@Chromehill

And also Fetterman.

Tells you ALL you need to know about whether an election is 'in the bag'.

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I remember the Diamond Princess.


Slowly at first, then all of a sudden.
Adgc1971 5 posts, incept 2022-09-03
2022-11-19 09:07:58

The Whigs, in the 1846-1847 elections, won 116 of 230 seats in the House with the Democrats getting 110 and Independents 4. Thus, Robert Winthrop of Massachusetts was elected Speaker. His political career eventually ended in 1852 when the Abolitionists didn't want him & neither did the Democrats/Independents. His 3rd great grandson John Kerry was Dem nominee in 1804, Secretary of State, and now the jet-setting high carbon footprint Climate Czar.

In the 1848-1849 elections there were now 233 seats (i.e. new States) in the House and the Democrats increased 3 to 113, Whigs lost 10 to 106, and Independents 14. It took 3 weeks to elect a Speaker and finally happened on the 63rd ballot with this only possible by them suspending the majority rule on this election and thus Democrat Howell Cobb of Georgia was elected Speaker. He was very much a southerner and later leader in the provisional congress & military of the southern Confederacy of 1861-1865.

In the 1850-1851 elections there were still 233 seats, Democrats increased by 7 to 120, Whigs lost 24 to 82, and Independents/Others increased from 14 to 31. The Minority & Whig Leader Robert Winthrop switched to the Senate and the Whigs selected Edward Stanly (slaveholder in North Carolina) as their Leader and after his exit from Congress he moved to California, ran for Governor there but lost in 1857 as the first-ever Republican nominee for California Governor, and served as a General for the Union (as a slaveholder of North Carolina slaves) during the Civil War, but resigned in March 1863 over a dispute he had with Lincoln over the Emancipation Proclamation. The Democrats picked Linn Boyd of Kentucky as Speaker who had partnered with Henry Clay of Kentucky in the Senate to get the 1850 Great Compromise passed.

In the 1852-1853 elections the total number of seats increased from 233 to 234. Democrats increased from 120 to 150, Whigs decreased from 82 to 68, and Independents/Others decreased from 31 to 16 (Unionists had 15 and dropped to 5). Mainly, the Whigs were getting trimmed in the South. The Dems kept Linn Boyd as Speaker. The Whigs' leader was Joseph Chandler of Pennsylvania who would lose his 1854 re-election and Buchanan in 1857 sent him to be ambassador to Sicily.

In the 1854-1855 elections there was a big sea change. There was 234 seats.
Both major parties lost a lot of seats - Democrats 150 -> 83, Whigs 68 -> 54.
The "Know Nothing" party went from zero to 51 seats. 3 new parties started after the 1853 elections and won seats - Anti-Nebraska 22, Republican 13, Peoples 9. In addition there was 1 Free Soil rep and 1 Independent rep.

The Kansas-Nebraska Act was the major catalyst for the formation of the "Know Nothing" movement that was a decentralized breakaway in the Whigs and mostly made up of leaders/people concerned about the Catholic takeover of many places in America. They swept several States like Massachusetts and Connecticut for congressional seats. However, they also did well throughout the South (though not as well as the Democrats) and the real death for the Whigs is that they lost every race in the South.

The Peoples Party dominated Indiana and did nothing anywhere else. They won 9 of the 11 seats with 2 Democrats re-elected in races where the incumbents closely beat Peoples Party candidates. The "Anti-Nebraska" was in Ohio what Peoples was in Indiana and they swept all 21 seats in Ohio. I will note that in 1852 that Indiana had 10D & 1 Whig and Ohio had 12 D, 7 Whig and 2 Free Soil; and then in 1856 that Indiana had 6D/5R and Ohio had 9D/12R.

It took 133 ballots and 2 months to elect a Speaker. Most of the Anti-Nebraska, Republican, and Whig parties joined together on a compromise to elect "Know Nothing" Nathaniel Banks of Mass to be Speaker and it's the only time in American history that a 3rd party candidate was elected Speaker. He won 103-100 over Democrat William Aiken of South Carolina.

Fast forward to the 1856-1857 elections it was 132 Democrats, 90 Republicans, 14 Know Nothing, 1 other, and none for Whigs. Democrat James Orr of South Carolina was elected Speaker.

After the 1858-1859 elections the Whigs were back 0->4, Republicans 90->113, Democrats 132->83, Know Nothing 14->5, Opposition (new party of border states; Southern politicians unwilling to align with Dems or Republicans & they were quite moderate) 19, Independents 1 -> 15 (most of these were Democrats; particularly in north and border states). William Pennington (former Whig and freshman Republican from New Jersey) was elected Speaker & he lost re-election in the 1860 election. Only Henry Clay in 1811 was elected Speaker as a freshman but since he was a former Senator its still just Pennington who became Speaker of anyone on their first time as a lawmaker on the Hill.

Though the Whigs were back (there being 4) they were a non-factor. And the Whigs never got anywhere again in elections as they died out.

Interestingly, the Nebraska-Act resulted in Pierce being the only US President in history to have been elected to a first term and then lose when actively seeking its party for a 2nd term. Yes, Truman had lost in 1852. But, his first term was unelected (as he had been elected VP and became President when FDR died) and then he was elected in 1948 but then lost running in 1852 and was pushed out by the Dems for Stevenson.

Good links for more research:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1854_and_1....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas%E2%....
Tm22721 1k posts, incept 2008-01-09
2022-11-19 09:09:43

The only precept I adhere to now is to withdraw from the system ala Ayn Rand and encourage all other 'makers' to do so. The feds must be starved then strangled because the system has been immutably captured.

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The cheeze in the mouse trap is always free.
Mannfm11 8k posts, incept 2009-02-28
2022-11-19 09:09:48

@Chromehill: I wouldn't surrender AZ yet. In fact, I wouldn't surrender a lot of it yet.

As far as a new party? We need to destroy the old ones first. Worse than the Republicans, we have to get rid of the Democrats. I think the Republicans already destroyed themselves. Also, I don't think any party matters, if we don't break down the unelected 4th branch of government, the DC crime syndicate.

War, Ukraine and climate change is why they fought Trump. The climate scam is worse than Communism. In fact, it might be worse than a meteor. Ukraine was a big game. They effectively took Trump's hands off Russia and Ukraine, impeaching him for getting too close to the jewels. What were some of the first things Biden did? Move to destroy domestic energy and jump into this impoverishing and genocidal plan. America will wish they were Peru in 10 years, maybe even NAZI Germany.

Watch this.

https://forbiddenknowledgetv.net/enjoy-t....

DC is a fucking stage act. run by the CIA. Everyting is an act. Disrupt the act. I suggest a group of independent challenges. Forget a party for now. The people not in the political class have no representation in the national government. There might be 50 members of Congress interested in the average Joe or Jill.

Taxation draws money form 80% of us, including those who pay no income tax. The amount of money being drawn out of the people of the United States actually leaves little of any income under $100K, when you consider all governments combined. All domestic incomes above $100k are drawn from those below. Those in the middle pay all the taxes above and below them.

I think there are a hell of a lot of people want to jump parties, but they don't like the other party. McConnell dumped $30 million into primaries. He sent Masters literally nothing. Republicans on the Maricopa election board were involved in an anti Republcan slate. Think the Treasurer, a Republican lower in the ticket beat the other candidates by way over 100,000 votes? The AZ Republicans and the national Party are a bunch of rat bastards, just like McCain and Romney.

The Trump people are ready to jump ship. Blacks and Hispanics are ready to jump ship. I think an independent run in a tight Congressional district, run like a multi level marketing company might actualy win, if started early enough. Find a few people, maybe 5 and meet. Have them get 5 each, If you end up with 15, then you are on your way to 45. Once more, 135.

Money is a problem in politics. The problem with 3rd parties is that people involved in politics won't vote for the odd party, because they can't win, in their minds. 2024 is different. People who vote for either party are going to be dissatisfied. I venture a stealth campaign by independents could actually take a sizable number of seats. In a 3 way race, 40% wins, maybe even 39%.

Josh Hawley came out against the Republicans Friday. Hawley has a backbone. People need to be convinced to abandon Democrat policies. Transing your kids might peel 15% off by itself. Contrary to results, which I believe were massive cheating, Democrats are already the minority party. Republicans won the cummulative Congressional vote by 5 million, a Congressional landslide. They stole all the marginal districts. Convince another 15% to abandon the climate scam, they suddenly look like the British Labor Party has the past 15 years. Get the MAGA people, you can win with little money, if you can get enough names and volunteers to get them to the polls. Trump runs as an independent, that door is open.

Then we have the economy and the other bullshit I hear is coming. I don't know how long it lasts, but I think the end of 2023 is going to be an economic SOB. We can blow up the uniparty with this combination.

A group of independents wouldn't need but 30 seats to run Congress, provided neither of the other parties won a majority. Perfect would be neither party had 210 seats, where the independents could name the Speaker. They could block or pass legislation, like borrowing more money. The Dems or Republicans would take the blame.

I bring this up, because I'm thinking about running. I might be too far past my prime and I'm having physical problems. I have given some thought to it and how it would have to be done.

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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Mannfm11 8k posts, incept 2009-02-28
2022-11-19 09:09:58

Takewhatyoucan64 wrote..
end the dept of education and no govt unions that use my tax dollars against me......AND TERM LIMITS


There are a few things I will add. The National Security groups need to be busted down. The second amendment needs to be hardened, so that any country thing twice about invading the country. I suggest civilian training of defense of country, including guerilla tactics. DC employment needs to be reduced by 80%. Government unions need to include the post office, which I believe are playing a key role in rigging elections. As far as term limits? I don't know that they matter, if you saw off Federal power.

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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
73zep 4 posts, incept 2022-08-12
2022-11-19 09:10:16

"The Constitutionsets the boundaries for both the Federal and State governments,without exception. Any political group that asserts a desire to change things on a50-state basis,where same either "stretches" or outright violates the Constitutionmust change it. We shall not permit end-runs around this process and any attempt to do so, no matter what it is is comingled with, shall be turned away."

__________

There is a problem with the last sentence, and it applies to all of the other points as well. We the People can assert or declare whatever we like. The organized crime cartel running our government doesn't care.

To say that "we shall not permit" this or that has no meaning, without the force necessary to back it up.

That is the problem.

There is no Rule of Law now, there is only Rule of Man, and might makes right. We see it everyday. The FIB and other 3-letter agencies are not law enforcement now, they are guardians and enforcers and brown-shirts for the Uni-party government cartel.

They come down on anyone they don't like, or who causes them trouble. Lest we forget, they are brazen enough to stage a heavily armed pre-dawn raid at the home of the former President of the United States. Their total focus is 'domestic terrorists', which is code for anyone who opposes their lawless tyranny. Rapists, murderers, pedophiles, drug dealers, human traffickers and every other kind of criminal are no threat to the cartel, and therefore low (or no) priority.

As for the military, did they not officially clock out on their oaths, the day 10% Joe was inaugurated? But they're certainly not neutral, they'll do whatever the Uni-party crime cartel orders them to do. And so will the large majority of police. Because who among them is going to stand up to their commanding officer? Some may resign in protest to the rampant government lawlessness, but not many. Not enough. And if large numbers do resign, they will immediately be replaced with thugs, illegal aliens, anyone who will not hesitate to do violence against the American population.

So if We the People say anything like "We shall not permit end-runs around this process and any attempt to do so, no matter what it is is comingled with, shall be turned away", how are We the People going to back that up?

The criminals aren't just going to give up and go away. Why should they? They're not in any danger. Currently, We the People don't have the power, literally, to "not permit" anything with regard to the organized crime cartel that has taken over our government.

Because there is no Rule of Law without Law *enforcement*, and with a criminal cartel running the government, will they enforce the Law against themselves?

As you frequently point out, only a minority is needed to successfully oppose. We can even stipulate to that, but it doesn't make a difference, because there won't be any such minority without organization and leadership, and anyone who would accept a position of leadership would be 'suicided' or disappeared in some offshore government gulag.

According to the corrupt judiciary, even the President of the United States (Trump) did not have 'standing' to object to the election theft. If the POTUS does not have "standing" in matters of Law, then who does? They do whatever they want, they don't even try to hide it anymore. They want us to know. So if We the People are going to 'permit' or 'not permit' anything, it will only be *after* the Rule of Law is reestablished.

We're a long way from there right now.

And standing between We the People and the reestablishment of the Rule of Law are the police and the military. And all three branches of government. It is true that We the People vastly outnumber them, but the number who are able and actually willing to resist is currently a much smaller subset of "We the People". It is also true that the criminals and traitors have the best surveillance technology and training and weapons our money can buy them. And they get paid to oppress We the People, but We the People don't get paid to resist.

It's no secret that you don't like Trump, but unless he is a globalist mole pretending at opposition, there has to be a reason why the Uni-Party crime cartel goes after him every single day, like hornets whose nest just got whacked with a stick.

If we scan the horizon from sea to shining sea, who else is willing or able to take them on, or has a track record of ever beating them? There is no one else who will achieve anywhere near the level of support Trump has, so unless something 'happens' to him (God forbid), Trump will be the nominee. If the nation doesn't collapse before the 2024 election, Trump will certainly get more votes than any candidate in American history. I expect things will be so bad by then, that DJT will easily take all 50 states and the territories too, if only legitimate votes were counted.

The tyrannical regime knows this also, which is why it won't matter even if every man and woman in the country votes for Trump, because it's no longer the votes that count, but who counts the votes.

By the time of the election, Trump could have Woodstock sized crowds at every event, and Pedo Joe (or whichever other puppet gets installed in his place between now and then) won't even campaign. And just like what happened in Arizona and Pennsylvania and Michigan (and other places) a couple weeks ago (and in 2020), the election results will be purposefully delayed so the criminal cartel can determine how many votes they need to manufacture (or make disappear) in order to win.

We have seen it twice in a row now. The government's propaganda arm, establishment media, will provide cover for their election theft, just as they have done the past two weeks, just as they did in 2020. When (not if) that happens again, the third time, and no one can anymore credibly deny it, We the People will be at a crossroads.

That's where we're headed.

It would be good to have a plan, before we get there.




Rangeishot 1k posts, incept 2021-11-18
2022-11-19 09:10:36

Does TF have any billionaires around to get this party started (so to speak)?

<<<crickets>>>

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Proud winner of the 2022 Frat "White Privilege Award"
Clyde 166 posts, incept 2009-08-19
2022-11-19 09:21:38

One route is to get this to Chip Roy (tx) and see what he thinks,
that's a good start.

Not sure how his alliance is to the Republicans.

Every time i hear him a genuine love of constitution and country comes out.


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It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.

Samuel Adams
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