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 The Republicans Shot Themselves In The Head -- Twice
Stephanie 46 posts, incept 2021-12-06
2022-11-14 18:23:29

I'm anything but an all-or-nothing thinker, and broad brushing people is just lazy. What a candidate claims to stand for has become almost secondary. People are fully aware of what either side represents. The issue with 2020, 2022, and all elections going forward is in-person votes vs ballot fraud. If you don't, at this point, think that's a right/wrong, must have, all-or-nothing issue then there's no need to even reply.

Except...this is exactly a prime example of what I was talking about. No incremental plan forward...just trying to move the clock back 100%. Not gonna happen. Same day in-person voting is DONE. Reverting back to that is not going to happen. Most people don't want it. Hell, I voted by mail this time around. It's too easy and convenient to vote by mail and most people don't want to stand in a line all day.

So Republicans can either embrace the new normal and find a way to counter Dem mail-in ballots with their own, or they can lose. Getting stuck in "principles" is one of the biggest reasons why conservatives have little actual power in this country. They're like, "If you don't live up to this ideal in my head, I'm just taking my toys and going home." Well, fine, except, you've lost.

Tickerguy 190k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-11-14 18:24:07


The difference between "kill" and "murder" is that murder, as a subset of kill, is undeserved by the deceased.
Mannfm11 8k posts, incept 2009-02-28
2022-11-14 18:49:21

@Stephanie: I think it is the middle class who had better wake up, in both parties, We pay all the taxes. And it is a lot broader than people think. I think up to a million dollars a year is middle class, unless that money comes from trust. The $400K to $1 million people are going to get soaked for the taxes and don't doubt for one minute, if it isn't down to $150K. They will find another way to soak those making less like energy taxes and carbon credits.

If you put your pants on, work for a check or run a small business, these politicians aren't your friends. The ones that look like your friend, want to drag us into a totalitarian state. Debt is over $200K per private job and Federal spending is over $40K. Do the math, 2 worker making $40K each, an amount one hell of a lot of households earn paying 100%, plus state and local? Corporates just get it from their customers or move their locations. The Corporate Republicans have already said we can fuck off, which means we either overwhelm them or leave. I'm thinking independent, to see which group of swampers can do without us. Democrat has never been an option because socialist has never been my game. Then one party or the other loses because they can't replace the few percent they lose. Tore Maras got on the Ohio ballot as an independent, very late and with zero money or ads got 1%. You don't need but 100,000 to win 75K in a 3 way race.

The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Takewhatyoucan64 85 posts, incept 2022-08-30
2022-11-14 18:50:05

Best man I ever knew was Jeff Boyd........tow truck driver. He didnt care who caused the wreck...........he was getting paid. He gave me wise words.

Hobbled 222 posts, incept 2011-02-09
2022-11-14 18:50:42

@Gingersmom - I am in compete agreement with our host as to how you can make the voting system more fraud proof, more transparent and hence how you get all votes to count as the voter intends whether it is local, state or Fed elections. So I will leave the ballot fraud and in-person debate with those who can articulate better on that issue. I am a Tiker groupie on that issue.

As to how we allow such voter fraud to "equate to republicans not doing their jobs? In the states with "clean" elections, and not just Florida, they seem to do just fine." argument I will counter with this. I am not a news hound by any means but I have yet to see widespread, vehement claims of voter fraud by the entrenched Repub establishment. Not like 2020.

So IMO and only IMO it can only mean one of two things (aside from the abortion issue which I am still trying to process what TG says). One - there was no cheating, no vote misadventure. Or Mitch McConn man and the Republicans WANTED certain R candidates to lose. Maybe for no other reason than they were endorsed by Trump and we know the establishment hates him. So either no fraud happened or it did but they will not mention the fraud or make a case in court and I see little case in the court of public opinion. It seemed like a Red Tsunami because of economics and as far as I can tell an incumbent Presidential admin that owns Congress nearly always loses same when the economics are so terrible. TG I agree with YOUR analysis and yes the spending and printing by Trump is to be blamed as well and he gets no pass on that. BUt the electorate are short sighted and don't read your Tickers. Personally, I would lay good money if I gambled on the position that there was massive cheating in the important races for Senate especially. SO if the R party is not challenging this and did not prepare for this eventuality they must be aiding and abetting and thus cannot be charged as guilty with doing their jobs.

I am not skilled in logic and debate and I will admit I have not read every news outlet, not mainstream, out there so I may be missing the hard, loud allegations of cheating. From what I see in my limited time and reading the silence seems to be deafening. But I will always say I am an idiot and what do I know.

FWIW I do not put my trust in politics to save my life. Neither party can do that on their best day. I want politics to be a sideshow to living my life, a necessary and limited evil with which we must contend for only the common good of American society, but which consumes little of my effort and its harms to me are limited. I want politicians out of my life so I can care for my wife and children as God gives me, not as politics allows me. I want politics to be there simply to protect me from privation by others - private or governmental actors trying to force me to do what they want against my will. I want them to protect my inalienable right to use my God given talents to start businesses, make and keep the proceeds and property obtained by my efforts. I want them to quit considering me and my efforts, my money, my intellectual and private property to be a privilege they control and thus can decide how much of that I "get to keep" for my own use and how much they can steal to advance THEIR agenda. I am tired of being treated as an infant without human agency and intelligence to conduct my life responsibly without their permission or interference ( is that not what a lot of laws and beauracratic red tape REALLY mean when you get down to it) I want them to reacknowledge the words of the Dec. of Independence that clearly, without equivocation state that my rights stem from my existence as a human fully apart from government. I believe those rights come from God, but the great thing is you do not have to have such a worldview and it still works. So my rights do not come from any man, any government and thereby no man or government can take them away because they are MINE by virtue of my being alive, not THEIRS to distribute as they see fit.

Sorry, got worked up and on my soapbox. I will quit now and go home to my wife and children. This is TG's site not mine and well my apologies for any inconsistencies or error or taking up your time sir.
Gonewest 3k posts, incept 2015-02-26
2022-11-14 18:56:55

Karl, I can confirm what you write about the abortion issue first hand.

This was THE issue with my wife. Understandable for those of child bearing age. Except my wife is in her mid-60's, we live in a state where abortion will always be available unless federally prohibited, and we have no daughters (not ignoring concern for our son but he's not going to have an abortion).

She could not get over the notion that someone was going to tell her, or any other woman, what she was going to do with her body.

Believe me, I had the discussion with her multiple times that this was not an issue that affected her and there were bigger issues in play with this election. She was having none of it.

And the mention of forcing rape victims or severely disabled babies to be carried to term just threw gasoline on her fire.

The political operatives figured out that abortion was the ultimate divisive issue for the electorate back in the 80s (maybe sooner).

They'll continue to use it because it wins elections and that's all they really care about.

An angry man without a country and family and a future COVID orphan.
Kikknback 1k posts, incept 2020-03-17
2022-11-14 20:58:43

When third world countries can have honest elections on one day, have the results by the end of the night and use inking of fingers to keep voting honest, but your first world country has voting across multiple days and ways to ensure voter fraud, you might live in a BANANA REPUBLIC.

When you have a candidate (BIDEN) state they, "Have a system in place to guarantee they win the 2020 ELECTION", and the video is posted on the internet for all to see (IN YOUR FACE TYRANNY), you might be living in a LAWLESS BANANA REPUBLIC.

When you have an ATTORNEY GENERAL of the U.S.A. AND MILITARY that has viewed said video of CANDIDATE (BIDEN) admission of committing treason, and the ATTORNEY GENERAL of the U.S.A. or MILITARY do not arrest the traitor for treason to protect the Constitutional Republic THEY SWORE TO DEFEND, you might be living in a LAWLESS BANANA REPUBLIC.

People do not win their freedom back, through the ballet box, in LAWLESS BANANA REPUBLICS.

Solving the abortion issue will not solve your election integrity issue.

Once a LAWLESS BANANA REPUBLIC is openly stealing your elections, and invalidating your vote through vote fraud, you have lost any freedom you ever had.

"The most grotesque act of Treason is to be born into a free Constitutional Republic, for which you did not risk your life or shed blood to create, and sit back and watch it slowly be taken from you w
Spanky 201 posts, incept 2011-03-22
2022-11-14 20:58:52

@TG I concur with your post. I am also curious about your thoughts on the big lie this time around (the cheat). Both things can be true (ran on crappy platforms & the Ds cheated). I haven't dug into claims personally, curious if you have. Soros put a lot of money into sec of state to control the voting process (smart fucker) in many states, especially swing states. Where there is governor control they can/should follow the FL model, but in the other states, my opinion is, "You know the rules, if you play by other rules, you lose." Here is Wayne Allen Root's thoughts on this, curious your take.
Tickerguy 190k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-11-14 21:04:05

I don't see evidence of outright cheating at this point.

Note that if you're allowed to universally send ballots out to registered voters, but said registered voter is a nursing home resident with an effective IQ of 40, that proving who actually did the voting is more than a bit difficult. But that is not exactly a new problem since absentee balloting for people institutionalized has been available for a very long time and, in any event, its a relatively small part of the population.

It comes back to what I've said many times -- if you let the race be that close then its not hard to play games. If you have a 5+% margin its nearly impossible.

The problems with this election were not in "finding" ballots; they were in taking positions that drove a good part of half the electorate to the "D" column even if they held their nose while doing it, because the alternative, as they saw it, was worse.

The difference between "kill" and "murder" is that murder, as a subset of kill, is undeserved by the deceased.
Themortgagedude 12k posts, incept 2007-12-17
2022-11-14 22:12:32

What you guys are failing to get I think is that it's easier to be the opposition party than it is to actually govern. The safest election is generally an incumbent running from the minority party.

It's almost like the cocksuckers wanted to lose.

I think its time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that our founding fathers intended for us. Ronald Reagan 1964
Abelardlindsey 1k posts, incept 2021-03-26
2022-11-14 22:12:39

It comes back to what I've said many times -- if you let the race be that close then its not hard to play games. If you have a 5+% margin its nearly impossible.


Its all in the mitochondria
Whitehat 11k posts, incept 2017-06-27
2022-11-14 22:35:58

Perhaps part of this is that the Republicans offered literally nothing to the electorate and the Democrats at least offered more money and stability.

Probably why local went Republicans in my town but their national side went Democrats. People know that the party in power brings home the bacon and sent that party to DC for their interests.

smiley Je souhaite

Quod tu es, ego fui, quod ego sum, tu eris
Cyben 55 posts, incept 2022-10-21
2022-11-15 07:57:13

Speaking as a man who has served in the elisted military, and has had a draft card, and now has honorable discharge papers instead:

Laws can and do require people to pay for things they didn't want or cause. People can and do vote for that, in massive majority, IN CASES WHERE people who don't vote for that go extinct.

So, question one: What is women's counterpart duty to men being forced to go to war to enable community survival?

Question two: Men are payed to execute their military duty. They are payed in money, but also in opportunity and respect. Are women paid to execute their counterpart duty, in currencies they value?

-Men being reliably paid to perform military duty is a necessary point of civilization... (Insert sounds of Rome being sacked here). Women being reliably paid for performing their counterpart duty is ALSO A CIVILIZATIONAL STICKING POINT. Obviously higher civilizations will have better organization of both.

Men can and do vote for men to be forced to go to war, regardless their fault, suffering, or recompense. It is better if the fault is aligned to responsibility, and the men are payed, and the suffering minimized, yet the system has to be working first before you get an opportunity to improve any of those specifics.

Our counterpart system is generally not working anymore, that's what "below replacement" means. YMMV on how that gets fixed, but however crude the fix has to be, if we don't make it happen reality will make us not happen.
Takewhatyoucan64 85 posts, incept 2022-08-30
2022-11-15 08:02:34

The only way the Republicans can win the presidency next time is to run 2 women for president and vp.

Trump or Desantis cant win at this point in time..........BUT, things may look really different in the world within 2 years. OR 2 hours.
Samiam 62 posts, incept 2021-05-11
2022-11-15 08:02:54

Jessica Rose has a substack out now saying she thinks it is not myocarditis but cardiac amyloidosis. She proposed that a few weeks/months ago and now has found a paper out that is proposing it as well...

which seems to fit with what is being found and how people are dying...

As to the election...what election? That was just an exercise in mass cheating that we never put a stop to after the last election. Why bother even voting anymore when you know the outcome is predetermined and there is nothing that can be done? If I was in the States, I'd be knocking on doors and double checking addresses and seeing if the voters were really alive like they did in Wisconsin but it's a bit far of a commute for me to do that from here...makes all the effort that I put into voting so much more aggravating when you see these outcomes...
Tonythetiger 757 posts, incept 2019-01-27
2022-11-15 08:03:57

I concur fully with TG on the entrenched abortion dogma on both sides.

I have female friends who would literally vote for Satan himself if it prevented abortion bans. To them the issue boils down to what they perceive as a Constitutional Right (whether there is a legal basis is beside the point) to access. One friend has been going to numerous local protests and reports that a LOT of younger women were showing up with "My Body, My Choice" signs. TG is right, telling these people that you want to throw them in jail if they get raped is political crazy on steroids.

The other end of the spectrum is the die hard right to lifers. One conservative co-worker leans this way, but is moderate enough to discuss the matter dispassionately. He even managed to not gloat over the recent Supreme Court ruling throwing things back to the States.

When we recently discussed the lack of a red wave I pointed out TG's position that threatening outright abortion bans at the federal level (ala Graham), he was dumbstruck. The logic of the point was inescapable but he had to claim that nothing of the sort happened, or was at risk of happening, until the election was done (and the reds swept into power). Not sure if he's accepted the truth of the situation or not. His beliefs are that strong on both points and in complete conflict.

Anyway, TG's point is amplified by the facts that

1) 50.5% of the US population is female

2) 74% of females are registered to vote vs. 71% of males

3) 68% of females show up to vote vs. 65% of males

The odds tip toward female voters 'counting more' than male voters at every level. Adopting a position that auto-alienates female voters is political suicide for anyone who actually wants to win. If you don't like that then it sucks to be you. Reality just is. Make stupid choices, win nothing.

As far as forcing people to travel for access to abortion, don't be so hasty to overlook the fact that a significant portion of society wouldn't be able to afford that kind of expense. Taking time off work, paying for gas, paying for a hotel, and paying for the abortion are costs out of the reach of many today. Eventually charitable giving would help some, but it takes time to establish that sort of thing well enough to meet the immediate need for it, and I doubt many religious organizations will be interested.

Thelazer wrote..
There is no white horse rider coming folks.

Then again ... Pestilence rode a white horse. Don't count yer chickens before they're hatched.

"War is when the Government tells you who the bad guy is. Revolution is when you decide that for yourself." - Benjamin Franklin
Djsnola 320 posts, incept 2009-03-16
2022-11-15 08:57:07

BTW does anyone want to revisit who leaked the Roe V Wade decision again? In retrospect, I always thought it was a conservative because I thought the electoral fallout was obvious and the Liberals had no reason to leak it but now I am not so sure. Two thoughts: one was a conservative that wanted to force the court to go all the way and not compromise and another is a lib that wanted the same thing but for the elecotral blowback they knew would happen that fall.
Djsnola 320 posts, incept 2009-03-16
2022-11-15 09:01:20

This is how I surmise the abortion issue going forward with as little nuance as possible. a huge chunk of the population ( me and most of my family and friends) will choose the dems position over the republican one when it comes down to choosing which extreme they would rather. Thats the end of it! Do I think late term abortions are gross. yes i do but id rather that route than a bunch of nutters saying my newborn niece has to give birth to a rapists baby or a medically malformed fetus. I dont need nuance there I will just defer to the party that defers to the individual. Republicans cant win on this issue because they cant control the nutters.
Tickerguy 190k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-11-15 09:02:21

Yep @Djsnola -- that's exactly the problem with the GOP position, and those who refuse to accept it and stick with the crazy on the GOP side will destroy the party entirely.

Further, its their fault.

The difference between "kill" and "murder" is that murder, as a subset of kill, is undeserved by the deceased.
Hobbled 222 posts, incept 2011-02-09
2022-11-15 09:10:29

Ok, if I concede the point that abortion was the issue my stupid little brain is left with a question which seems contradictory loop to that.

If "my body my choice" was it for them ans I am conceding that how does that comport with the lockdowns and the rabid Karen position on forced vaccines? Are these the same people populating both groups. I assume so after the last 2 years. Obviously choice over your autonomous body is selective.

And, let me see if I can reflect the voices in my head here, how nuts is that. So those who claim men are toxic, masculinity is essentially evil, let's listen to the women because they are more compassionate more in touch with the all important feelz. This group, the ones who carry American civilization by being the only ones who can actually bear the next generation. This group showed up in droves to vote for bodily autonomy are the ones actually voting to have abortion access AND still can with a straight face ssy ...but you MUST take deadly vaccines.

Seems regardless of your view of if that life is God given or not what I see from this is nothing but death. Right to kill unborn life AND right to force death jabs.

I'll stop now. I am not trained in debate. It is early and maybe my brain is foggy. TG you made your point well. I concede abortion did trump this election and that was a political mistake like it or not. I am just distressed death is so high on everyone's list like this. But as you say that is reality. I accept but I have a heavy heart. My apologies.
Tickerguy 190k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-11-15 09:12:35

@Hobbled - Both are bad (lockdowns, masking kids, etc.) but abortion hits a visceral point that masking and even forced-injections does not.

Get the "god centered" thing out of your head or keep losing. It's all fine and well to worship and plenty of people believe in God (your host included) but trying to cram that into the political sphere has been a losing position for a very long time and there is no reason to believe it will change at any point in the future that matters -- that is, for however long you have left on this rock.

The difference between "kill" and "murder" is that murder, as a subset of kill, is undeserved by the deceased.
Djsnola 320 posts, incept 2009-03-16
2022-11-15 09:15:23

Hobbled its a great question to ask... Michigan Governors race pretty much seals the answer for the demo and how they view it. Again, I am my body my choice period so for me the question isnt contradictory.. but the harpy karens didnt see it that way. There was an opening for the republicans on abortion but the roe v wade overturn and the empowering of the nutters on the repub side after that made sure that moment was squandered. Its not always about whether it makes sense to you and I, the results speak for themselves.
Djsnola 320 posts, incept 2009-03-16
2022-11-15 13:35:23

BTW there is zero incentive for the left to negotiate on this issue going forward. It is a clear and obvious winner for them. So not only will they continue to hammer on it, but the right seems determined to provide the nails to them.
Tickerguy 190k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-11-15 09:19:46

Exactly @Djsnola; its not about how YOU see it.

It is about how the electorate sees it, and abortion has ALWAYS had this sort of attachment where none of the other issues related to bodily autonomy do.

EVERY time there's an abortion case before the USSC the sign-wavers and such are out in force and it is ALWAYS an issue whenever a justice is up for nomination.

How many loud, big protests were on the jab mandate cases?

It matters not whether you think this is crazy. IT IS CRAZY to not put the same focus on forced jabs but that's irrelevant; the ONLY thing that is relevant is what drives votes one way or the other.

Playing the "God" card when it comes to abortion has been a political loser for the last fifty years on both an incremental and accelerating basis and since women are half (actually a bit more) of the vote if you piss off even 10% of them you take 5% off the margin of every single race even if it impacts NONE of the men.

In a contest where there is actually a competitive second party throwing 5% of the electorate away means you lose. That's the math so either deal with facts or keep losing.

The difference between "kill" and "murder" is that murder, as a subset of kill, is undeserved by the deceased.

Djsnola 320 posts, incept 2009-03-16
2022-11-15 09:30:11

Not to mention Karl the guys that are fully on board this as well. There is a cohort of men (often referred to as beta males or soy boys) that will fight tooth and nail alongside these women for this right. You dont have to like it or agree with it or understand it; but you need to know its there and picking a fight with it is a repeat loser for the right.
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