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 No, They're Not Trying To Kill You
Workerbee23 134 posts, incept 2021-09-15
2022-09-22 21:25:16

@Workerbee. voxday.net

The word of the day is CONTROL.

Whether we like it or not, the majority of us want control. The difference is the level of control. I want control of myself, my environment, the environment around my loved ones. The amount of control we have lessens the further removed we are from the "problem" like the size of the rings in a pond when you through a rock in - those rings are larger but small in energy.
The biggest problem for those like us is we don't WANT to control others. We just want the ability to control those things that affect us on a daily basis.

The people in power only want to control others as they (at least on the lower levels of society) have no control over themselves or at least FEEL like they don't. Therefore, we are dealing with people who are envious, demoralized (whether they realize it or not), undereducated and overall delusional to how reality actually works.

Further up the ladder, what is left if you've accumulated a shit ton of money to buy whatever you want?
The ability to make people do what you want, whenever you want. Easy peasy.

Personally, I don't think a damn thing will change until the skull of one of those animals is emptied, with force.

It only takes one domino.
Tickerguy 188k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-09-22 21:54:14

I don't dislike Vox and do read him from time to time.

My view of how spirituality has been twisted and abused through the ages both as a foil ("if you do that you'll go to HELL!") and a shield behind which one can evade doing what they know damn well is both right AND necessary ("God will judge; its not my place") however, is well-documented and I've said so many times. The latter is especially invidious and, in my opinion, responsible for an unbelievable number of wrongs that various people get away with despite the fact that they did it being common knowledge and that the act deserves punishment also being not only common knowledge but in many cases near-universal consensus.

You need only look at the current VUMC controversy with them allegedly being involved in cutting off kids dicks and tits, perhaps with both drugs and knives. That predates Covid by quite a lot, yet in point of fact it is no different in fundamental character than their pronouncements vis-a-vis the virus and various public pronouncements surrounding it.

Risk assessment and personal autonomy be damned; there was money to be made and thus it was. At its core that's the bottom line and it requires nothing further to see.

I do have a beef with those who claim that this is some spiritual war between good and evil (e.g. God and Satan, light and dark, pick 'em) and then, having identified the problem as such, refuse to join the battle when they claim to be on the good side.

Exactly how committed to that viewpoint is said person?

----------
NASA faked out a computer instead of running the test.
Then tried to launch and aborted instead of going "BOOOM!"
Did they abort the JABS after faking THOSE tests?
Jw. 559 posts, incept 2019-10-10
2022-09-22 22:38:48

More website hits are generated by over the top claims than simple logical explanations...


Remind me again which party stood up against the lockdowns and vaccines?

Not only will most people refuse defend themselves from the two parties that are supposedly trying to kill them, they are going to cast their vote for them in a month...

It's ok though, this time it will be different, they promise. smiley


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The spending must continue, until it can't.
Starrynight 174 posts, incept 2021-11-26
2022-09-23 07:20:50

So a lot of the comments here are about how the modern medical system is a criminal racket and the horrible covid response can be explained by the profit motive. I get that.

Here's another, non-covid aspect of "health care" that might be interesting to consider.

I was talking with a high school teacher recently who told me that mental health issues for students is through the roof. The main proximate cause is the trauma caused by covid lockdowns.

But from a longer-term perspective, she suspects that kids who were born using in vitro fertilization and other reproductive health methods like frozen eggs may explain chronic health and mental issues for such children.

No offense to anyone reading this who was born using IVF or related methods.

But it's interesting to consider that these techniques, which gained in popularity since the 1980s, might be producing people who have unknown negative health effects. These methods are a completely unnatural means of reproduction, and who knows what the consequences might be for physical and mental development of the individuals who are thus created.

And so the medical industry cashes in by offering IVF, which as far as I know is very expensive, and then might cash in as the resulting offspring could have chronic health issues.

Not to mention the embryos that are sacrificed in these techniques, and the abortions that take place when multiple eggs implant and start to grow. More money for the doctors! More death! A medical system based on unnatural means and the death of others -- all under the humanitarian guise of improving quality of life. Consider that so much of current medical research is based on using "humanized mice". And also consider the rise of euthanasia administered by health professionals. It's a system based on death, unnatural methods, and exploitation.

Here we see the intertwining of the profit motive and evil. The health practitioners offering IVF will say they are just helping couples to have kids, what a wonderful thing. But they are really motivated by the money, and they are totally callous about the human beings they are killing off as a direct consequence of the techniques they use. This ties in with @Heartlander's vox quote and what @Jw. said about deaths caused by greed.

Again, I don't know about the evidence that might show those born using IVF and related methods have more health problems. It is just anecdotal. I wonder how much research has been done on this. Certainly this kind of experimentation with artificial human reproduction could have negative consequences that might be long-term or subclinical and therefore hard to catch. Here we see the intersection of profit motive and evil with what @Querant and @Heartlander said -- hubris. These white lab coats think they can play around with the building blocks of life like God and they can know and control the outcomes. What arrogance.
Tickerguy 188k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-09-23 07:23:12

Quote:
But they are really motivated by the money, and they are totally callous about the human beings they are killing off as a direct consequence of the techniques they use. This ties in with @Heartlander's vox quote and what @Jw. said about deaths caused by greed.

Not really.

Vox imputes that this is satanism, essentially, and that it is a war between good and evil (however you care to "face" that, Christian or otherwise.)

Well, where's the Crusade? See, both scripture and history are quite-clear when it comes to such and the demands issued against man when someone tries that shit with said motive, is it not?

----------
NASA faked out a computer instead of running the test.
Then tried to launch and aborted instead of going "BOOOM!"
Did they abort the JABS after faking THOSE tests?

Boredfree 660 posts, incept 2021-09-15
2022-09-23 08:19:39

The problem many people encounter in their religious beliefs is the ability of God to help them personally.

They are waiting for God to show up and fix the stuff in their life they don't believe they have the strength/ ability to fix themselves.

If you're religious, you must understand God wants us to face challenges. It's easy to avoid obvious temptations, but the others?

My favorite religious joke is about the guy who believes God will protect and keep him safe during a big flood.

A couple hours before the water begins to rise a neighbor stops in and ask if he wants a ride to safety.

The God fearing man says, "No, God will provide." And the neighbor shrugs his shoulders and leaves.

The water rises and breachs the man's porch, a boat stops and ask if the man needs help.

"God will provide, thank you very much." And the boat left.

The water rose even higher, the man climbed up to his roof and began praying. A rescue helicopter's crew spots him and gets ready to rescue him but the man yells at them to rescue others, as God will provide for him.

The confused crew leaves shaking their heads at the fool.

The water becomes higher, and after treading water for too long the man dies.

His soul makes it to heaven, but he's a bit angry and confronts the day's gatekeeper about God's indifference to his suffering.

The gatekeeper is surprised at the man's anger and tells the man, "We sent a car, a boat and a helicopter, what else did you want us to do?"

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The problem is most people want to point a finger rather than their thumb when dealing with challenges.
Starrynight 174 posts, incept 2021-11-26
2022-09-23 08:36:10

@Tickerguy said: "Well, where's the Crusade?"

Do you mean that if an IVF clinic is discarding embryos or performing abortions for unwanted "multiple" pregnancies, it's OK if their motivation is profit? A crusade is not warranted because they are doing it just for money? No need to lift a finger, since it's just about the benjamins.

But if the IVF clinic staff are satanists (or acting under satanic influence/inspiration), then there needs to be a crusade by people like me who point this out and criticize it? In other words, if you believe what they are doing is murder (intentional killing innocents), then you have a duty to either kill them or stop whining?

Either way the IVF clinic is "liquidating" human lives. Personally, I think they are in it primarily for the money, but who knows, they may also hate God and have no moral problem with killing innocent unborn humans.

As for a "crusade", do you mean that if I, as a Christian, believe the IVF clinicians have a callous disregard for human life (which ultimately, spiritually, is a rebellion against God and His law, i.e. satanic), I have a duty to blow up the clinic?

I guess I am not sure what you are saying to me, and perhaps by extension to others like @Joedirt11.

Individuals have lived under evil, despotic, tyrannical regimes throughout human history. As an individual, it does not always make sense to take up arms against the system, even when you know that it is unjust and doing bad things.

In the Middle Ages, the Church organized crusades against aggressor Muslim armies. The state mobilized Christian fighters to defend Christendom. Christian princes held the levers of state power and a good chance of fulfilling their goals.

We don't live in the Middle Ages any more. The state is no longer Christian. Our historical period I think is more comparable to the early centuries of Christianity, when small Christian communities lived among the majority pagan society, under a pagan (anti-Christian) state. These early Christians did not have power. They did not organize crusades. What they did is they tried to survive and spread and pass on the Faith as a marginalized minority. They stood up for the Faith and gave witness as needed. They died for the Faith. But to my knowledge, they did not engage in acts of terrorism and did not kill those who were doing immoral and unjust things in their communities. They did not target Caesar or his representatives for assassination. They did not kill lower level clerks like tax collectors, or the soldiers enforcing unjust laws.

I am not a philosopher or theologian, so it's hard for me to parse all the moral imperatives for what an individual might choose to do (or have a duty to do) under a tyrannical system. There may be competing moral imperatives. If you are a father, you have a family to take care of, and committing a crime that will get you incarcerated or executed could be deemed irresponsible. If any act against the regime has a low chance of success, that also might be a reason to hold back on direct action. You might believe that rather than taking a direct, overt act of rebellion, more low-profile acts of non-compliance might make more sense. Trying to "starve the beast", "go Galt", withdraw consent from the evil you see around you -- could this not be part of the fight against evil?

But isn't your framing of this a false choice: between doing nothing, or going out and killing people, as you seem to suggest? Aren't there other ways of fighting against an unjust system, than killing those you think are doing bad things?

Think about it: what would be your advice to an individual living in North Korea today? You realize your leaders and the whole system are against you. Are you saying to dissident North Koreans: kill an official now or stop your complaining?

Of course, I understand that choosing not to take action could just be an act of cowardice. You might be unwilling to take personal risks to change a bad system. You complain about injustice, but you don't do anything meaningful about it.

Under Soviet communism, there were some people who we now recognize as heroes because they stood up to the regime, put their bodies on the gears of the machine, so to speak. But it is not always clear to the individual what to do, what will be effective, what might actually contribute to making positive change, especially when you feel isolated and the majority are against you. Many times, direct action appears futile or even counterproductive.

Maybe you will banhammer me for this, but let me ask: what are youdoing to change the system? You complain about our government leaders doing illegal things, about business leaders screwing over the population, and you call for them to be jailed, you call for justice. Right on! I agree! That's why I come here: to read your articles and read the subsequent discussion, to learn new information, get new perspectives, understand better what choices I might make.

I can understand you don't want to hear repeated whining about how bad the system is and how life is unfair and "someone needs to do something". OK, but maybe we are just individuals living in the margins of our communities, often shunned by our co-workers and even family members, we're trying to understand what's going on in the world as it changes in ways that are unprecedented, we are confused and we're just trying to figure it out, and frankly we're in a position of weakness.

We face a globalized foe and it is not at all clear to me what one man can do against the forces of evil (or greed, if you prefer). Are you suggesting one go "lone wolf" on whatever target is accessible nearby?

Or are you suggesting collective action, perhaps for example that Christians who believe we are in a spiritual war should organize a crusade? Christians should band together and go burn down the IVF clinic and hunt down the staff members?

I will say this: when I look at the world today, I see both mundane secular trends like the profit motive at work, but also forces of evil at work. As it always has been throughout all of history. It is not clear to me what my choices are, in the face of overwhelming forces of greed and evil. My first instinct is not to pick up a gun. And it seems as though it is the same for you, @Tickerguy. You've been writing for years about the injustices in the system, and things have only gotten worse. Maybe you're right that they are not trying to kill us. But they are killing us -- you've presented the data on this, things like excess deaths, rundeathisnear, etc. What are you doing about it?
Rangeishot 1k posts, incept 2021-11-18
2022-09-23 08:36:46

Abelardlindsey wrote..
One division issued the mortgages. I know in the case of WaMu, they had a special mortgage division devoted exclusively to sub-prime. These mortgages, once issue, then go to another division that packages them up for sale to Freddie and Fannie. Then there is ANOTHER division that looks for securities for the bank to invest in (park its money). They see these "AAA" rated securities and think they are a wonderful deal. So they buy them. The thing is that the people in this division likely have no day to day contact with the division that issued them. Its the classic left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing situation.


You're over-thinking it. Mortgages are bought and sold constantly, by the time they were securitized that way it's unlikely they had anything to do with the originating lender. My last one was a high quality jumbo and it was sold five times over the 14 years we had it.

CDOs were typically packages of thousands of mortgages. They were designed to contain enough high-dollar high-quality mortgages to offset (aka hide) any ratings hit from high-risk sub-prime tranches in the same offerings. That's how and why they could be rated so highly yet have fatal levels of sub-prime exposure. It's unlikely anyone ever reviewed the individual elements of a given CDO. They were bought in bulk on the rating and nothing more.

It's a lot like something I told a friend who fell on hard times, declared bankruptcy, and was fretting over being a "deadbeat" for not paying his mortgage. I pointed out there was no human impact, just random bank office workers who got assigned some paperwork and processed it. He'd never spoken to a single living human being at the bank that owned his mortgage at that point. He was just a number in some databases that periodically crapped out some interest income. He was beating himself up taking it personally while they absolutely do not. It isn't the 1940s when "your banker" is your neighbor and somebody you have to face in the local grocery store later. My friend felt much better after that (and is now doing quite well for himself).

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Proud winner of the 2022 Frat "White Privilege Award"
Boredfree 660 posts, incept 2021-09-15
2022-09-23 09:07:41

@starynight

That's a lot of ink to pen.

I'm going to try and answer your basic question of what have you done?

Umm, nothing of any consequence to the system. I don't spend or earn more than my partner and I need. I don't waste time on television, Facebook, or other corporate e-space (I have one electronic addiction, Tickers)

We don't buy crap food, we don't buy much brand new, and we reuse (and reuse and reuse) everything. Heck, we built a house out of mud.

What we don't do is spend too much time thinking about elites coming to kill me. I lived in Aspen long enough to rub shoulders with plenty of the elite: they paid me to take them hiking (glorified walks in the woods). I'm not worried about them (and you shouldn't either, they're weak)

But, if you really think the elites have a price on your head, you should act accordingly: hide or come out guns blazzing.

What pisses people like me off (and probably Karl) is too many people are waiting to be told to take an action; they are too scared, or they don't want to upset their life to do for themselves.

How selfless are you? What will YOU sacrifice to be free? Who will you die for?

What IS your personal line in the sand?

Stop waiting for your savior, and be your savior.

Don't compare, just be

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The problem is most people want to point a finger rather than their thumb when dealing with challenges.
Tickerguy 188k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-09-23 09:11:20

Quote:
Individuals have lived under evil, despotic, tyrannical regimes throughout human history. As an individual, it does not always make sense to take up arms against the system, even when you know that it is unjust and doing bad things.

In the Middle Ages, the Church organized crusades against aggressor Muslim armies. The state mobilized Christian fighters to defend Christendom. Christian princes held the levers of state power and a good chance of fulfilling their goals.

Ah, I was wondering if the Crusade reference would be viewed as a singular thing or..... a bit more nuanced.

You see, the first crusade was quite-arguably a perfectly logical response to invading armies driven by religious animus.

HOWEVER, beyond that..... not so much.

----------
NASA faked out a computer instead of running the test.
Then tried to launch and aborted instead of going "BOOOM!"
Did they abort the JABS after faking THOSE tests?
Shadowmask 3k posts, incept 2021-05-24
2022-09-23 10:41:06

@heartlander said
Quote:
I consider my friend to have been a murder victim of Anthony Fauci. Karl will perhaps despise me for not going to Washington with a gun in my hand to deal out justice, but I just don't see how that would help. Furthermore, I'm not willing to risk my own immortal soul. The whole problem with Hell is that it is forever, and it is absolutely irreversible.


I have slept on this response, I'm not shooting my mouth off.

Why is some remote asshole the murderer? Fauci did nothing to your friend.

Your friend was murdered by the nursing home employees who were supposed to care for her. The executive director who gave the lockdown order murdered her. The cunt director of nursing who enforced the order murdered your friend. The doctor who refused to treat her murdered your friend.

All of these people are local to where she lived, and not strangers living in a remote fortress. But admitting any of that highlights the fact that when it comes down to it, you are unwilling to do anything.

If you truly believed Fauci or any of these people was evil, you would not say something like, "I just don't see how that would help."

May God give us all courage when we need it. I sure do.
Iou 1k posts, incept 2009-03-16
2022-09-23 10:41:52

Anybody that has been following this forum and Karl's writings going on decades now should know exactly what Karl's position is and his motive. There is a well defined theme in just about every Ticker and his published material.
I can sum it up with one word: FRAUD

Fraud defined for those that don't understand the meaning: "Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain".

His motive is to WARN the public that this will eventually destroy our current system of government. Not could but WILL based on simple mathematics and history that is being repeated.

We've discuss on this forum over many years how does one fight against this systematic fraud. Some have implemented those things but most have done nothing as it requires a change to your lifestyle. I stated in an earlier post in this ticker that I could have done more. We all could do more BUT based on the pure numbers of those that refuse to adhere to the laws of mathematics it wouldn't have made one bit of difference. At least I can say I tried but pissing on a forest fire just isn't going to do it.

As for "They are trying to kill us!" Karl has also made clear his position on that. Let me just say I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of his wrath if I was in his cross hairs for threating his family or loved ones.


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"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies
Starrynight 174 posts, incept 2021-11-26
2022-09-23 10:54:59

@Tickerguy wrote: "I was wondering if the Crusade reference would be viewed as a singular thing or..."

I don't think an argument about the historical crusades is really germane here.
I think the bigger question that you were asking was about how someone who sees current events through a spiritual lens should respond to the problems of our times.

And if I understand you correctly, you are saying that if you believe satan is at work in the world and TPTB are pursuing policies intended to kill or harm the population, it is hypocritical for Christians to point this out but not take direct violent action to try to stop TPTB.

What I am saying is that the Christian response to threats may depend on the position of Christians in society. During the Middle Ages, Christians were the majority and had state power; therefore, war to defend Christendom was in principal justified.

But at least in my current circumstances, Christians are a tiny minority of the population and the state is not in fact secular, as it claims, but instead pursues policies based on anti-Christian values. Therefore, does it really make sense for Christians to pursue a violent "crusade" to try to rectify the injustices of our times?

What I am pointing out is that violence may not be the solution or even a moral response under the circumstances. And looking historically, the early Christians under arguably comparable circumstances (a persecuted minority under and anti-Christian government) were distinguished by their non-violent response. They publicly witnessed to the Faith, suffered and died for the Faith -- but to my knowledge they did not kill for the Faith. They did not try to use violence to take power or influence government policy. They lived under Caesar (arguably a tyrant), paid their taxes, and followed the law insofar as it did not conflict with their Faith, and when told to follow laws contrary to the Faith they did not comply and therefore suffered.

So when you say, "where's the Crusade?", I say, "where are the Christians?" There are only a few of us. We cannot mount an effective crusade. We could mount individual acts of violence as you seem to encourage, but would it really change anything, would it solve the problems we complain about?

My point is the early Christians may be a better model for dealing with the world as it is today than the crusades.
Tickerguy 188k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-09-23 10:58:11

Quote:
And if I understand you correctly, you are saying that if you believe satan is at work in the world and TPTB are pursuing policies intended to kill or harm the population, it is hypocritical for Christians to point this out but not take direct violent action to try to stop TPTB.

What I am saying is that the Christian response to threats may depend on the position of Christians in society. During the Middle Ages, Christians were the majority and had state power; therefore, war to defend Christendom was in principal justified.

But at least in my current circumstances, Christians are a tiny minority of the population and the state is not in fact secular, as it claims, but instead pursues policies based on anti-Christian values. Therefore, does it really make sense for Christians to pursue a violent "crusade" to try to rectify the injustices of our times?

If you truly believe you will be judged after death and the consequence is eternal, one way or the other, then knowingly sitting back and allowing people to be slaughtered by what you believe is satanic in motivation and execution is morally equivalent to taking up Satan's crown yourself.

Tell me how you think that's going to work out when standing in front of St. Peter? We could all be wrong, of course, but there's a problem with getting something like that wrong -- there's nothing you can do to atone for it when you get there and eternal Hellfire along with being impaled on Satan's cock doesn't sound very attractive, does it?

----------
NASA faked out a computer instead of running the test.
Then tried to launch and aborted instead of going "BOOOM!"
Did they abort the JABS after faking THOSE tests?

Veeger 668 posts, incept 2013-02-13
2022-09-23 11:14:15

@Starrynight

I think you're close to the reality. Two principles that come into play here and govern Christianity per scripture are:

1) It is God's job to take Vengeance, not ours
2) Per the Lord's Prayer, we are to remember that 'our forgiveness is to be equivalent to how we grant forgiveness'. I.e Forgive us our sins as we forgive others'

It's not a popular 'human' approach, but then, God's ways are not our ways. I understand Karl's (and others) view of not wanting to forgive, but technically, it isn't the 'Christian' approach.

That many so-called Christians quoted some scriptures to justify their retribution does not mean that Christianity was the problem, just that Christianity poorly practiced was the problem. As it is today also.

Per your comments regarding the early Christians, yes, they were very passive, non aggressors. It was their distinctive. It brought down the Roman Empire. Christians are to take the long, Etenal view of their circumstances, not just the normal view of an 80+/- year view of a lifetime.

It's different.

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I remember the Diamond Princess.


Slowly at first, then all of a sudden.
Iou 1k posts, incept 2009-03-16
2022-09-23 11:14:40

@Starrynight, let's get to the root of this. If you truly believe someone (government, hospital, doctor, ...) is trying to kill you and you do nothing about it then I'd suggest you go out back and start digging your grave. I know many Christians that believe that doing nothing and accepting their fate is the only path to heaven. My wife is one of them however I on the other hand will be defending my life and family to the death. We'll see who ends up entering the pearly gates...

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"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies
Iou 1k posts, incept 2009-03-16
2022-09-23 11:32:07

@Christians, answer this.
As a Christian suicide is considered a mortal sin. Isn't sitting idly by and allowing someone to kill you just another form of suicide?
The outcome is the same so you're just changing the method.
Suicide is suicide regardless of method is it not?

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"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies
Shadowmask 3k posts, incept 2021-05-24
2022-09-23 11:45:19

@starrynight said
Quote:
But at least in my current circumstances, Christians are a tiny minority of the population and the state is not in fact secular, as it claims, but instead pursues policies based on anti-Christian values. Therefore, does it really make sense for Christians to pursue a violent "crusade" to try to rectify the injustices of our times?


All it takes is 12. Remember that.
Bakerv 854 posts, incept 2021-04-21
2022-09-23 12:06:09

Too many people with too much to lose. When that changes then it's showtime.
Tickerguy 188k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-09-23 12:07:14

My point is simply this @Bakerv:

Those who have "too much to lose", and I agree with you on that point, obviously DO NOT include in the things they can lose THEIR ETERNAL SOUL -- despite their protests to the contrary.

----------
NASA faked out a computer instead of running the test.
Then tried to launch and aborted instead of going "BOOOM!"
Did they abort the JABS after faking THOSE tests?
Starrynight 174 posts, incept 2021-11-26
2022-09-23 12:17:28

@Tickerguy - Again, I suggest that you are asking a false question, or proposing a false dichotomy: it sounds like you mean either I must take up arms against anyone I think is scheming harm to me or others, or I am sitting back and letting them do evil, which implicates me in their evil.

Why are those the only two options? Is it really "all or nothing" like that?

Do you really believe am I an accessory to their crimes and sins if I am not trying to physically [B[kill[/B] them?

I just don't think that adds up logically.

In fact, violence is likely counterproductive in many instances.

"Not being violent" does not have to mean doing nothing. There's a lot of options for action against evil that are not violent. And they can be very effective.
Tickerguy 188k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-09-23 12:21:07

I said nothing about the means of putting a stop to it.

I simply said that if you believe in an immortal soul and that you are judged when you die, then certainly if you believe some group of people are acting as agents of Satan and you CHOOSE to allow it to continue, no matter what cost you may otherwise incur in an attempt to stop it, then you're complicit.

You can't POSSIBLY believe in BOTH the immortality of said soul AND that you do not pollute YOURS through complicity with the dark side of things. THAT is the pinnacle of the sort of nonsense that plays all over the so-called "megachurches" that Genesis made fun of in this song; "go fuck your neighbor's 14 year old daughter and then repent by putting $20 in the plate come Sunday and it's all ok."


----------
NASA faked out a computer instead of running the test.
Then tried to launch and aborted instead of going "BOOOM!"
Did they abort the JABS after faking THOSE tests?

Riceday 1k posts, incept 2009-10-30
2022-09-23 12:36:29

This has been a great last few pages. Many different roles (hands, feet, eyes, mouths, etc.) are needed for an effective defense. Christian kings had the responsibility to engage in physical combat and capital punishment in defense of their people and their Faith. The everyday peasant was expected to support the king and armies in different ways. In the US, we call ourselves self-governing, so the buck stops with each of us. Either we rightly delegate governing powers or we make a mess and have to do the whole "alter and abolish" thingy. We do not have the luxury of wringing our hands and saying we're powerless. No, we're feckless. And yes, we'll each have to answer for our fecklessness and apathy with respect to our spheres of influence and ability. We're not off the hook for the wars OUR stupid delegates start.

That being said, if "they" are out to get you, the internet is probably not the best venue for that discussion.
Starrynight 174 posts, incept 2021-11-26
2022-09-23 13:07:58

@Tickerguy said: "...if you believe some group of people are acting as agents of Satan and you CHOOSE to allow it to continue ... then you're complicit."

Yes, I see your point about that. So, if you see evil happening, you have a duty to try to stop it. Yes, I agree. I thought you were painting things in black and white, saying that if you are not taking up arms to stop evil, that amounts to "sitting back" and doing nothing.

Spiritually speaking, you can "take up arms" against evil by prayer. Non-believers may think prayer is a waste of time and it's better to take action of some kind, but in fact prayer is an action and can be the most effective response. You see evil, pray for it to stop. Pray for good to prevail.

I just want to say that I agree with you that talk is cheap and it doesn't do much good to wring your hands and complain over and over that the world is falling apart and "the elite" and TPTB are out to get us. If you think there's a problem, you should do something about it, even if you know that your efforts may have only a limited effect.
Tickerguy 188k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-09-23 13:17:51

Think of it this way @Starrynight:

I know there is evil out there in the form of people who might choose to try to break into my house at 0300, kill me and/or rape my spouse or children. As a first and very reasonable measure against this I lock the doors when I go to bed at night.

This is not a perfect deterrent by any means, but it certainly IS a deterrent.

But, does my willingness to act end there?

For me, no.

Now depending on where I live and the laws I might choose to have a pistol in the nightstand. Or perhaps I have a baseball bat or 5-iron handy. My specific set of defenses is circumstantial and much depends on where I live and what I believe the risk profile is like.

I do not believe that divinity expects perfection from man; that's illogical. If we were perfect we'd also be divine, and we're neither. But there is a difference between thinking you have it covered and being wrong and not caring in the first place.

In other words if I take NO defensive actions and my wife is raped and killed in front of me, while I didn't do it I failed in my essential purpose as a husband and, if there are kids, as a father too.

If I'm spiritual and believe in an immortal soul I'd be expecting Satan's Cock in such a circumstance and, post-event, there's nothing I can do about it. That sucks. Is that a PROPER motivation for me to act ex-ante and prevent that from occurring? You bet it is!

Now look at the OTHER SIDE of the question: "Turn the other cheek" or, as you propose "just pray".

OK, so you pray and the evil continues. Remember, you determined it wasn't money-grubbing assholes which you can avoid, you're convinced it is actual evil undertaken by minions of the Prince of Darkness. Well now, that's pretty much the same scenario as sitting back and NOT doing anything while your wife is raped and murdered in front of you, isn't it? After all we're still talking innocent people being sacrificed.

I think it is.

And thus, for those who raise this argument as to what is actually going on and state with certainty that this is the case I call bullshit because either (1) they're playing rhetorical games, whether knowingly or not, or (2) they're not really Christian at all, in that they don't BELIEVE they will be judged for their own misfeasance after their death.

Logic says that's how this is, but boy-oh-boy do people twist themselves into knots trying to get around what logic inexorably leads you to, don't they?

----------
NASA faked out a computer instead of running the test.
Then tried to launch and aborted instead of going "BOOOM!"
Did they abort the JABS after faking THOSE tests?

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