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2022-09-20 11:20 by Karl Denninger
in Corruption , 621 references Ignore this thread
Prison. Now.
[Comments enabled]

It is a felony to wiretap someone without a court order.

"Tech" has claimed a "necessity defense" on this repeatedly, and there's logic to it to the extent it really is necessary.  That is, it's not a felony for the phone company to "wiretap" (listen into your call) to find a fault in their circuit.  The intent isn't to divulge the contents of the conversation or monitor it per-se; it is to find out why there's static on the line and repair the fault.

Same applies in the tech world.  When I ran MCSNet if you were having problems with email, for example, there's nothing wrong with me, or a tech in the company, looking into the system to find the problem and fix it, even though we might wind up reading emails to or from you in the process.  Our intent isn't to monitor your communications which you have a reasonable expectation of being private even though I did not encrypt them, it is to find and address technical issues with the service.  This is perfectly legal.

What Facebook was doing, assuming this is correct, was and is not.

Facebook has been spying on the private messages and data of American users and reporting them to the FBI if they express anti-government or anti-authority sentiments — or question the 2020 election — according to sources within the Department of Justice.

Under the FBI collaboration operation, somebody at Facebook red-flagged these supposedly subversive private messages over the past 19 months and transmitted them in redacted form to the domestic terrorism operational unit at FBI headquarters in Washington, DC, without a subpoena.

IMHO that's a felony.

Facebook can respond to a subpoena; I used to get them from time to time and while you can challenge one I never got one that I believed was worth of challenge.  We therefore complied rather than go to court because on its face the subpoena was reasonable.  I didn't know if the claimed thing was true but that's not the test -- the test is whether or not the subpoena, given the information available to me without taking upon myself a duty I don't have (e.g. to investigate and prove up or not the allegations made) is reasonable.  Said subpoena was reasonable in every case, therefore it was complied with.

have, in other contexts, fought subpoenas -- successfully.  In fact every time I did challenge one I prevailed and it was either withdrawn or quashed.  Yes, people do use them as weapons and that's why you have a right to challenge them.

But the allegation here is that Facebook, despite holding forth the statement that "messenger" is a person-to-person and not public communications medium then systematically violated the privacy of the people involved.

There is no expectation of privacy in what you post to the public.  But if I am having a private conversation via a venue or method that some company or other entity represents is limited to the knowing participation of the parties involved, as is the case for a phone call, surface mail with a stamp on it or, as is the case here, an electronic emulation of the same then for that to be systematically invaded for the purpose of monitoring the content and giving it to outside parties, including the government, without a subpoena is quite-arguably both a felony and a ruinously-serious civil cause of action as well.

So where are the handcuffs?

Oh, about in the same place they are for Pfizer's CEO who stated in public that his jabs prevented you 100% from getting Covid when he knew damn well that was a lie -- and yet without that being true there was utterly no basis, ever, for any mandate issued against anyone since all benefit, whatever it might be, would be entirely personal.

We will never stop the crazy in this country until and unless people who lie in this fashion are held to account -- and "held to account" does not mean the firms are fined.

It means people MUST go to prison, which is an equally-nasty consequence for all irrespective of how rich you are, a severity that is never true in the case of a fine because a fine that impoverishes a middle-class chump is laughed at by people like Zuckerpig.

Go to responses (registration required to post)
 

 
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Quantum 579 posts, incept 2021-05-18
2022-09-20 11:55:57

Speaking of civil action: is it possible to go after the individuals that did the screening, redaction, and transmittal to the FBI? Or does it have to go against the company only? If the woke workers at Google start getting served, that might be a deterrent.

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Our God, will you not judge them? For we have no power to face this great multitude that is attacking us. We do not know what to do, but our eyes are on you. --2 Chron. 20:12
Synopsis 52 posts, incept 2010-02-05
2022-09-20 11:56:01

Who from the FBI is going to prison? Who from the FBI asked for and received the data? Was Facebook compensated for these services? If so how?

The FBI should be held accountable as much or more the the CEOs for this kind of BS. Who is going to investigate the FBI?
Tickerguy 188k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-09-20 11:57:16

@Quantum - Yes. Sue the company along with 'Jane Doe' and then hit the company with a subpoena. They'd almost-certainly fail to quash it given the materiality, then you have a case against both the firm and the individual in his or her personal capacity.

Unlike a government employee where so long as they act within their legislative boundaries they're generally immune no such shield exists for private employees.

I warned a couple of people at my company that while they might come across various customer information (e.g. emails) while doing work of various sorts disclosure of that to a third party, no matter who it was, except under subpoena was begging for trouble and they could get personally fucked if they did it.

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NASA faked out a computer instead of running the test.
Then tried to launch and aborted instead of going "BOOOM!"
Did they abort the JABS after faking THOSE tests?

Bakerv 855 posts, incept 2021-04-21
2022-09-20 12:00:51

How would you find out if your messages were targeted?
Tickerguy 188k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-09-20 12:01:38

Well that's the problem @Bakerv and why these firms think they can get away with it. You can't sue "on the come"; you have to be able to allege specific facts and circumstances that are specifically material to YOU.

----------
NASA faked out a computer instead of running the test.
Then tried to launch and aborted instead of going "BOOOM!"
Did they abort the JABS after faking THOSE tests?
Comrader 613 posts, incept 2010-06-10
2022-09-20 12:16:50

I listened to Tim Pool interview Devin Nunes last week. Someone asked Nunes who is worse the FBI and CIA or Facebook and Google. He said that they are one and the same thing. I tend to believe that is where we are at.
Ingar 385 posts, incept 2017-02-14
2022-09-20 12:20:20

Nothing to see here, move along.

Zuckerpig and facebook execs should all do serious time in the slammer for these violations. Same for the FBI agents and all personnel who knew about this operation.

I don't foresee any prosecutions for this. With our dysfunctional justice system no one will feel any obligation to be law abiding. Of course the deplorables will continue of be ensnared in the Just-us system, but this will set America up for a French-style revolution where a lot of innocents become victims.
Missjlb 12 posts, incept 2021-12-29
2022-09-20 12:31:16

TG quoted:
Facebook has been spying on the private messages and data of American users and reporting them to the FBI if they express anti-government or anti-authority sentiments or question the 2020 election according to sources within the Department of Justice.

Anti-authority?? In the United States, WE THE PEOPLE are the authority...not those hacks that park themselves in DC to live off the taxpayer gravy train for decades. I think people don't understand that at all. THEY are accountable to US not the other way around. But I digress.

Facebook is a product, and according to this post, a malleable arm of the FBI. Why does anyone use it anymore? Okay, you can stalk the old high school flame and see pictures of the grands, but you may get a visit from the Feds as a bonus! I wonder how all those new IRS agents are going to decide who to audit first?? Perhaps those with "anti-government sentiments"? Who determines that? Do what you want friends, I got rid of that account long ago and I've survived quite well without it.

Indianarube 768 posts, incept 2020-03-22
2022-09-20 12:31:23

Not sure if this is accurate or tinfoil. It does raise a few questions.

Reason: Fix formatting
Mudgumby 3 posts, incept 2021-10-31
2022-09-20 13:38:01

Yes, you'd sue individuals as agents of Facebook, as well as Zuckerfuk and Facebook itself. Problem is, as Karl noted, how are you going to find out whether you've got a cause of action? Here in Alabama the courts have ruled that pre-litigation discovery is not allowed when the purpose is simply to determine whether there's a valid CoA. Oh, and Facebook's forum selection clause puts you in the 5th circuit... good luck.
Packetcap 705 posts, incept 2021-07-23
2022-09-20 13:40:10

Tickerguy, what kind of traffic do you see here on Market Ticker from the Feds and state known PAT addresses?
Cmoledor 1k posts, incept 2021-04-13
2022-09-20 13:46:00

Bravo Karl. Where are the cuffs??? Reserved for us Id say. The beautiful people get no cuffs.

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The whole world is one big fucking scam
Why are you giving a vulgarity warning here? Our genial host is an advocate of both skullfucking and sodomy via rusty chainsaw. Credit to Rollformer
Tickerguy 188k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-09-20 13:46:32

Sounds like maybe barbecues are called for...

----------
NASA faked out a computer instead of running the test.
Then tried to launch and aborted instead of going "BOOOM!"
Did they abort the JABS after faking THOSE tests?
Bakerv 855 posts, incept 2021-04-21
2022-09-20 13:50:11

So you'd have to have somebody on the inside, FB or FBI, dump the whole pile of shit in the public space and then go looking. Or a law enforcement agency would have to go after FB or the FBI and get the info.

HAHA
HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

So they got away with it. Cool.
Goldbrick 7k posts, incept 2008-01-23
2022-09-20 14:25:24

I remember shortly after (or was it before) 9-11 Adm. Poindexter's "Total Information Awareness" scheme was leaked to the press. Essentially, he wanted a system that would have intel on everyone at any time. IMHO the antisocial media apps are part of that plan.

I'm all for the asset-stripping of every company and/or employee who had a hand in this.

For the ones at the top. . .

smiley

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"The higher I go, the crookeder it gets." --Michael Corleone
Abelardlindsey 1k posts, incept 2021-03-26
2022-09-20 14:25:33

Facebook has a "messenger" function within it that one uses for private conversation between facebook users. Is it this that Facebook violated in snitching to the FBI? Or are they able to somehow access other apps on your cell phone that are not a part of the facebook app and that they were monitoring those?

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It's all in the mitochondria.

"It's the future, and...you're not."
Northeaster 227 posts, incept 2011-05-13
2022-09-20 14:27:12

"How would you find out if your messages were targeted?" -

The FBI Anti-Terrorism Task Force shows up at your house like they did mine.
Abelardlindsey 1k posts, incept 2021-03-26
2022-09-20 14:34:25

Its the messenger app. Of course the Facebook people belong in prison. But aside from that, it should just generally be recognized that any messaging or chat app that does not have end to end encryption and/or is provided by any of the social media giants is going to not be truly private.

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It's all in the mitochondria.

"It's the future, and...you're not."
Cmoledor 1k posts, incept 2021-04-13
2022-09-20 14:42:32

I work on the assumption that zero is secure in the digital world. Banks, apps, messages. All of it

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The whole world is one big fucking scam
Why are you giving a vulgarity warning here? Our genial host is an advocate of both skullfucking and sodomy via rusty chainsaw. Credit to Rollformer
Rangeishot 1k posts, incept 2021-11-18
2022-09-20 15:09:05

Quote:
that does not have end to end encryption


Yeah about that...

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021....

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Proud winner of the 2022 Frat "White Privilege Award"
Tickerguy 188k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2022-09-20 15:09:35

Yep....

Unless the two endpoints are the ONLY entities ever involved in the keying.....

----------
NASA faked out a computer instead of running the test.
Then tried to launch and aborted instead of going "BOOOM!"
Did they abort the JABS after faking THOSE tests?
Takewhatyoucan64 26 posts, incept 2022-08-30
2022-09-20 15:18:48

Nobody is going to prison and nobody is going to revolt. 17 years of watching this chit and nobody does anything.

We deserve whats happening to us
Californialost 92 posts, incept 2021-10-14
2022-09-20 15:25:50

I'm reading this on an Android OS Samsung phone that has Twitter, Facebook and lots of Google apps on it.

I assume everything, including Facebook's WhatsApp that I use to talk to my parents, is being read by the Feds. I don't believe in any encryption, because I actually think the Feds are behind all of that software development and left themselves a set of keys, just in case.

I should just print everything up I have ever written and nail it to my front door, like a low rent, modern-day Martin Luther.

Barring a massive insurrection, which I am completely against and would not participate in or advocate for, the only heads that are gonna roll are the deplorable's, like mine.

Happy "National Voter Registration Day", in the words of The Party here in California, Vote early, Vote often, Vote for someone else.
Tsherry 10k posts, incept 2008-12-09
2022-09-20 15:43:50

I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I'm concerned, for there to be handcuffs (outside of the bedroom that is) there needs to be a reasonable expectation of law enforcement that is utterly apolitical, with understood applications of probable cause, a demonstrable threat and a respect of the rights of the individuals involved.

Since the above paragraph is utter fantasy right now, there will be no handcuffs of the admittedly guilty.

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Fuck Joe Biden with a GIANT RUSTY CHAINSAW.
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