Who Could Have Ever Foreseen.....
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2022-09-12 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Foreign Policy , 735 references Ignore this thread
Who Could Have Ever Foreseen.....
[Comments enabled]

..... that any nation that has operating nuclear power plants and gets involved in a war has a very high probability of suffering a catastrophic event screwing their own people?

"The team closely witnessed shelling in the vicinity of the ZNPP, in particular on 3 Sept. when the team was instructed to evacuate to the ground level of the Administrative Building," a report by IAEA Director General Rafael Grossi to the United Nations Security Council said. "Moreover, the team observed damage at different locations caused by reported events with some of the damage being close to the reactor buildings."

So what?

I remind you that Ukraine started this war, provoking it originally in 2014 with the Maidan "color revolution" stoked in no small part by the United States in which our President's family was extracting money in exchange for his son's "services" on the board of Burisma which did not include any sort of actual knowledge of the industry in which the firm was engaged.

I further remind you that a sitting Senator, John McCain, traveled to Ukraine and gave speeches supporting said revolt.

Then, following said revolt, the new Government which Victoria Nuland, who still makes policy for President Biden, cheered on not only the Maidan Coup itself but in addition we have sat back and allowed said "new government" to shell its own territory because the people who lived in said territory identified with Russia.

And finally, I remind you that Crimea was actually purchased by Russia at the time of Catherine The Great, far before any of this nonsense involving the United States, the USSR and similar took place.  In point of fact said purchase is just as valid as is ours of Louisiana or Alaska, the latter of which occurred in 1867.  In other words the "root" of all of this is territory that was legitimately part of Russia right up until someone decided it was inconvenient for their particular political ends and crafted a story around all of it.

Then if that's not stupid enough that very same part of the globe installed and operates to this day nuclear power plants while stoking violence with one of its neighbors, engaging in color revolutions, assassinations and shelling of people living in its own territory.

Oh what could possibly go wrong?

It seems to me that the use of civilian nuclear power comes with a duty to be damn sure you do not get involved in military conflict less than an all-on nuclear exchange in which case, of course, nobody cares if your plant glows a bit more brightly than the surrounding countryside.

Perhaps, just perhaps, if the IAEA and UN had a hint of common sense their screaming about "non-proliferation" would have and would today include complete sanctions against any nation that engages in such activities, demanding the full shutdown and removal of radioactive material from same as soon as the first instance of that sort of misbehavior occurs.

You can have either nuclear power or you can foment violent revolutions within and beyond your territory, never mind shelling your own citizens.  If you try to have both we'll stop you because if we don't the risk is unacceptable that someone is going to blow up one of those plants, either directly or by disrupting critical supplies.  After all, its rather obvious where they are, they're very big, they're very difficult if not impossible to sufficiently defend against such events and as a result that's the deal.

Of course taking that position would be rather..... unpopular given that there are other nations around the world who both have nuclear power and similar facilities yet don't play nice-nice with their military capabilities, either in threats or acts.



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Cmoledor 1k posts, incept 2021-04-13
2022-09-12 09:46:17

Seems like this is a case of dont start no shit, wont be no shit. But now, since shit was started, shit is coming.

The whole world is one big fucking scam
Why are you giving a vulgarity warning here? Our genial host is an advocate of both skullfucking and sodomy via rusty chainsaw. Credit to Rollformer
Susanlauren 1k posts, incept 2021-05-01
2022-09-12 09:46:17

Exactly. The problem is that what happens in Ukraine with respect to their nuclear power plant won't remain in Ukraine. I don't know the extent of the radioactive fallout but this can't be good. I am betting that after all is said and done, Ukraine as a nation will either no longer exist or be very different in terms of its boundaries. The USA is fighting a proxy war with Russia down to the very last Ukrainian citizen. And Europe has screwed itself with respect to the sanctions which are blowing back to their own people. Something wicked is here and has been here for some time.
Whitehat 10k posts, incept 2017-06-27
2022-09-12 09:46:17

Russia does not want another Chernobyl.

Something tells me that they will be careful, and any "accident" which occurs staged to look like they are responsible.

smiley Je souhaite
Columibiapixels 23 posts, incept 2018-02-20
2022-09-12 09:46:17

Biden and all those around him need to go. Question only is how. When in the course . . .
Davinci 52 posts, incept 2021-10-12
2022-09-12 09:46:17

It does seem foolish to both escalate a war and also hope that it stays within certain parameters and boundaries. A player that takes that approach is likely pursuing something other than total victory, and is expecting the other players to be the same... could be a serious miscalculation.
Kwwilson 100 posts, incept 2022-03-02
2022-09-12 09:46:17

I found it really frustrating that in Canadian media, who all breathlessly parroted the nuclear catastrophe story a week or so ago, I only found one source which noted somewhere below the fold that the shelling was occurring at the -Russian held- facility.
None were even close to honest enough to admit what I understand to be the facts anywhere in their reporting. This facility was held by the Russians, in territory the Ukrainians were trying to retake. Ergo, the Ukies were at least willing to lob a few shells in the general area for media points, if not risk said catastrophe in their attempts to retake this area. However, reading our media, it would appear this is all Putins actions.
I expect that the Russians are staging in this area or facility, so Im definitely not holding them blameless, but if I took the territory, I expect I would do the same both in my own defence and in defence of the facility, and what I have seen so far leads me to believe that Zelenskys crew would both do the same right up to -salt the earth-, and are likely willing to go that route in efforts to defeat the Russians.
None of this is about the Ukrainian people.
I know Karl disagrees, but especially after the comments last week from the Israeli WEF mouthpiece, I think the powermad-that-be (evil pieces of shit) truly do not care about the possibility of negative outcomes, feeling that they can sufficiently isolate themselves.
As Susanlauren might say, This is yet one more thing that will not end well.
Rickylc 2k posts, incept 2009-02-09
2022-09-12 10:18:04

oh, the weather outside is frightening
the bombs, they fall like lightning
when it comes time to have a war
let 'em glow, let 'em glow, let 'em glow

We know they are lying, they know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, we know they know we know they are lying, but they are still lying. - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Ocdawg 350 posts, incept 2019-03-14
2022-09-12 10:18:16

Slightly OT... but... has anyone else noticed Joey Shit Pants has been even more absent than usual? In fact... VERY quiet across the board...

Good topic today... something's brewing...

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didnt exist. -Verbal Kint, The Usual Suspects
Purplefang 688 posts, incept 2010-03-28
2022-09-12 10:39:53

Peace was and is the only sane option. The Biden administration has deliberately created a setup for disaster. Starting a war with Russia is a direct threat to our safety and national security. I see it as sabotaging the entire world economy while pretending it is all Russia's fault. This is pure evil. Russia made it clear they can take down Ukraine's power grid any time they wish, so maybe Ukraine should reconsider the notion of shelling power plants.

The Biden administration is hell bent on destroying everything and taking the blame for nothing. I am on the verge of insane prepper mode. It's just a mtter of time before we are feeling some major negative impacts. I suspect the first to topple will the stock market.
Disgusted 418 posts, incept 2021-07-20
2022-09-12 10:41:30

Lurching from one crisis to the next. Does this shit surprise anyone? Has the Shitler administration done one fucking thing right since assuming "power". Every one of the MFer's needs to be dropped into a live volcano. It's been reported widely in the last week that the U.S. and UK scuttled a peace deal that was negotiated in April on purpose to keep the war going. Maybe a full scale meltdown deeds to happen so at least some people start asking questions as to how it all got to this level of idiocy. It's either that or Putin decides to use tactical nukes anyway which is looking more and more likely. What will happen then? Will the west lunatics pull the trigger too? Fucking incompetent war mongering maniacs, all of them. DC is the place that needs to glow in the dark.
Scottj175 561 posts, incept 2010-09-06
2022-09-12 10:42:34

A thought crossed my mind as I read the Ticker. I wonder if all the rah-rah support for the government which shelled its own citizens who held to a different ideology is to make a majority OK with such behavior elsewhere?
Phils 135 posts, incept 2018-02-07
2022-09-12 11:29:50

A modern day version of the scorched earth policy.

An invading army seizes and lays claim to part of your country. You melt down your former nuclear reactor, leaving the new owners with an environmental disaster, a 30 mile diameter exclusion zone for the next 10 thousand or more years, and many trillions of dollars in clean up costs.

Sounds like a very effective policy. Let the bean counters run those new numbers.

The smart people left Ukraine decades ago. A similar situation occurred when communist Castro took control of Cuba. The smart, educated people grabbed what they could and left.

We're seeing the same situation now, here in the USA. The mentally sharp people are leaving California, New York, other states, and heading for greener pastures.
Ingar 386 posts, incept 2017-02-14
2022-09-12 12:06:39

All of the Ministry of Truth reporting seeks to affix blame for the shelling on the Russkies. Why would they shell a place that they are occupying and endanger the lives of their personnel?

The Zelensky government will do what his Washington benefactors pay him to do. He will conform to the wishes of Idi Amin body double Lloyd Austin and continue to send thousands of Ukrainian troops into a meat grinder in a futile attempt to wear down the Russians. What does he care. When his regime goes tits up he can flee to his $12 million mansion in Florida or be welcomed with open arms to Israel under the right of return unless the USA finds someone even more useful in the meantime.
Jwm_in_sb 5k posts, incept 2009-04-16
2022-09-12 12:39:05


I see where you're going with that. I had similar thoughts back in Late Feb early March when this lit off in Ukraine. Zelensky is doing all the tyrannical shit that the Biden regime really wants to do here but can't. I sort of let that go the back of my mind until the Dart Brandon speech which pretty confirmed it only it's not just the unvaxxed now.
Mannfm11 8k posts, incept 2009-02-28
2022-09-12 12:39:10

@Ingar: I believe Ukraine is doing the shelling.

I saw enough several years ago to realize the US State Department was trying to force a war or militarily threaten Russia. Regardless of administration, it seems these demons spend their time creating the next war.

There was a lot of bullshit that came out of Ukraine during 2016 that points to them trying to affect the 2016 election and then the 2020 election. The Russia, Russia, Russia nonsense was in part to prevent Trump from solving this problem. Then we had the impeachment, where I believe Trump was given information from Zelensky or through a channel about Biden and that he would be provided information. Adam Shiff and company knew this was coming, because his people set this up.

So we had the situation where through phony leaks and political nonsense, the problem couldn't be solved during the Trump Administration. This is a theory, but it smells this way, when you examine the past. Ukraine didn't like the people in the territory, and the people pretty much had been there for centuries. There should have been a negotiated settlement to give these people autonomy instead of shelling.

Why was the same process in Bosnia a crime, but sainthood in Ukraine? Why was Trump's Ukrainian Ambassador blocked, leaving a Biden/Soros criminal in place. There is a lot of bullshit going on in the US government that is behind this mess and the masses will never hear a peep, unless they turn off the TV and look or the swamp wants to demonize someone.

There is a lot of projection in DC. They do repeatedly what they accuse their opponents of doing. The same neocons ran Obama as Bush, despite campaigning as the opposite. John Kerry is in with them. They hurl racist while running smears against white, promoting LBGT and having rights while the rest of us don't then waging war against minorities in Ukraine. What is Iran, but another path to war?

The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Patrick58 232 posts, incept 2019-08-08
2022-09-12 12:51:43

I would prefer to "conscribe" all these "jackasses" who operate in this cabal of deep state shennanighans (I'm trying to be "Polite") and "install" them at the front lines .... and yes "women too"! Let's "see what happens NEXT!"

I'm betting there would be an overwhelming number of "white flags" resembling soiled diapers attached to sticks. When confronted by the Ruskies, saying in "english" ... "You Surrender?", these same "jackasses" would say "Depends?"

Rusky response would be we have "NO Depends", "NO Pampers" .... "NO TOILET PAPER EITHER"!

I bet the war would be over twenty minutes after the "conscripts" were frog marched to the front lines. Since NATO is run by the "state", it might take another ten minutes to bring an end to this. (If only I were "God" for a day!)
Disgusted 418 posts, incept 2021-07-20
2022-09-12 14:21:08

Off topic, but part of the fuck up everything every day in the U.S.; and still try to call it a success. Blue Origin "the big dildo" has an "anomaly". That's the word the DIEversity clowns call a failure. Looks alot like the main booster blew up to me. Since it didn't destroy the capsule, that's a success, I guess. That's probably the only thing they did right, to design it to survive when, not if; the main booster blows up now and then.


Sonoran_monk 1k posts, incept 2021-08-16
2022-09-12 14:21:24

This plays right into Ukraine's strategy of starting a fight and then hiding back behind their Mom's skirt.

If they can spread the pain and rope more suckers into their scheme, I'm sure that would suit Zelensky just fine. He's happy to play his penis piano while his bank accounts swell. His countrymen are clearly expendable to him.

I imagine this is another problem that could be mitigated by Thorium reactors.
Jesjohn94 807 posts, incept 2019-05-07
2022-09-12 14:21:53

Maybe I'm just naive but it seems quite unlikely there will be an accident at a nuclear power plant. The constant talk of this in the media seems to be for western consumption to put up with high energy prices.
Kwwilson 100 posts, incept 2022-03-02
2022-09-12 15:24:02

Patrick58 wrote..
If only I were "God" for a day!
I am quite certain that if I had god like power for a day, two things would happen.
1)The population of Hell would increase significantly.
2)My predilection for vengeance, rather than justice, would condemn me to the same fate.
So, I suppose it is a good thing that I do not have that authority.
Jack_crabb 15k posts, incept 2010-06-25
2022-09-12 16:10:56

O/T - but if there is no rule of law, wouldn't vengeance be the same as justice?

Molon Labe
Where is Henry Bowman when you need him?
How many are willing to pledge this? We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor
Avalanche 107 posts, incept 2022-02-12
2022-09-12 16:11:06

Phils: "We're seeing the same situation now, here in the USA. The mentally sharp people are leaving California, New York, other states, and heading for greener pastures."

Which pastures they will proceed to shit-up just as deep and just as horribly as where they are trying to leave behind as their LAST devastation of waist-deep shit!!

I think I sort-of understand the folks saying the God-Tsar is leaving Zelensky alive so HE can surrender and sign the peace treaty as if THAT will make it okay. Does that mean when Germany surrendered, it somehow wasnt REAL because Hitler was already dead?

I THINK I maybe sort-of understand why Lord Putin is NOT just locating Ze and bombing him and his protectors/enablers/handlers to hell-and-gone. Hes skating a knifes edge because how can he know what will be too-far-now in the blind eyes of the West/NATO leaders who are slavering for a chance to REALLY start sumthin'? *IF* he crosses some invisible, not actually real, red line so "our" neocon / Khazarian mafia can start "our" visible active attacks (as against the attacks "we" are aiding, abetting, and directing and paying massively for), then the Khazarians will claim HE started it and the mumbling herds of amurikans will agree.
Patrick58 232 posts, incept 2019-08-08
2022-09-12 17:48:43

@Jack_crabb ....... "Depends"
Sharps 143 posts, incept 2008-12-15
2022-09-12 17:48:46

To me that would appear to be so
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