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2022-05-08 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Musings , 759 references Ignore this thread
What If The Choice Runs The Other Way?
[Comments enabled]

Oh, the bleating has started over at CNN....

Private companies, then, should make a choice: Do they want to invest and operate in states where half of the workforce cannot make their own choices about whether and when to have children -- choices that, from a pure business perspective, fundamentally alter a company's ability to retain talent and a cohesive, healthy staff? Or do they want to take steps to protect their employees -- and take their business to states where women are freer?

Or do firms let the marketplace of ideas work, and, where people like this author "win" in that firms leave, let the remaining ones have whatever competitive disadvantage -- or advantages, as the case may be, continue onward.

What, you say "advantages"?

Perhaps.

You see, its illegal to discriminate on the basis of sex in employment.  This is interpreted to mean that an employer may not take into account the materially higher cost, for example, of health insurance on a woman of childbearing age, nor may the employer take into account that a woman who is young and doesn't have kids might want them and thus will take time off to have them at a time of her choosing.

Both are real.  Prior to Obamacare when health "insurance" (in quotes because its not insurance, legally-speaking) companies set premiums entirely based on actuarial losses women were always more expensive to cover than men.  Whether its because women complain more (and thus go to the doctor where men don't) or whether its due to actual health being more-fragile if you're female I don't know -- but I can tell you, as someone who wrote that check as a CEO every month to those firms women were more expensive.

That a woman may choose to have a child of course, if she's of childbearing age is a very real risk and FMLA makes it a legal obligation for most firms to provide for it and hold that job open at the employer's expense never mind that if you don't promote a young woman on this basis you will get sued (and likely lose too) -- but, while in theory that law is sex-neutral in point of fact it is not, ever, simply because of biology.  Men can't gestate no matter how many Reeeeing idiots say otherwise and irrespective of your "pregnant man" emoji -- and every employer and indeed every sane person over the age of about three knows it.

Indeed given this is Mother's Day let's shove in the face of the crazies that not every mother gestates (you can adopt and be a mother, for example) but every single mother is in fact a biological woman no matter how many screws you have loose upstairs.

So let's let the 50 state laboratories play out, shall we?

I'm not at all sure how this resolves, honestly.  Without actually doing it there's no way to know.

Of course the Reeeeing side is absolutely sure that women are on balance superior to men, even though that assertion is sexist on its own and, in any rational society, would get you hammered exactly as would the opposite assertion particularly when there is in fact law that makes discrimination on the basis of sex illegal.

After all if discrimination is illegal and one must pay the same wage for the same work then the person who shows up more often and does more work should make more money irrespective of what happens to be between their legs or on their chest.  If you actually attempt to implement that in as an employer you will be sued and lose, however, and the politicians always lie about this every year on cue -- "wimmens are paid less than men!"

Oh really?  Where are the businesses that hire specifically and only on merit and productive output -- and are bending their competitors over the table and having a screwfest at their expense which would be trivial if this was true.  If you think I wouldn't have instantly exploited someone other shlub's stupidity in refusing to hire a superior workforce I assure you that you're wrong.

This was the reason, incidentally, that I have always found such "laws" to be either stupid or worse, intended to force mediocrity so virtue-signaling firms don't get hammered.  If "diversity" (on whatever basis) was strength and a net positive you'd be wild-eyed crazy not to maximize it because someone else in your market would and that would be the end of your company.  Only by forcing others to do as you do can you prevent that from happening.  Think about that for a minute because its rather obvious -- if you're capable of thinking, that is.

We may be about to get a real test of this theory.

What happens if those firms that believe in the "feelz" of abortion on demand being in fact nothing other than nakedly oppressing women all flee Texas?  What's left are competitors who don't believe in the "feelz."  There are fewer women employees in such firms on a percentage basis, simply because fewer present themselves to work as the rest have fled and a larger percentage of women in said state stay home and raise kids.  The women who present requesting employment have no interest in bearing or raising kids and are wildly-successful employees.  In addition the men who present themselves for employment are, on balance, more-likely to have all their "household stuff" (including kids) being taken care of by a wife who they love and who loves them -- and thus a higher percentage of their brainpower can be dedicated to their job.  No discrimination takes place; this is all from natural economic forces and personal choice to live in such a state -- or not.

What happens if, should that occur, the Texas firms are more-competitive in that their costs are LOWER, their employees are more productive and thus they hammer the feeelz-patrol companies over the head, drive them into the dirt and then assault their corporate corpses?

Do I expect this?  I don't know what the outcome will be since it hasn't been legal to do something like that for so long nobody alive has any real experience with doing it; the very point of 50 state laboratories is good ideas win and poor ones lose, which can only happen if there is a diversity of ideas and the free capacity of people to implement them whether the outcome be for good or bad.

That very experiment and allowing the market to determine who's right is what America was founded on, and it's a good thing -- not a bad one.  Indeed it is likely to answer the question as to whether so-called "diversity" initiatives are in fact worth anything or whether they are, as some have asserted, deliberately destructive because if they weren't everyone would have undertaken them on their own for purely economic reasons.

I say bring on the experiment and may the most-competitive ideas -- and States -- win.

Perhaps, just perhaps, what the Reeeeeeing left fears (maybe because they already are pretty-sure what the outcome will be) is that the acronym "DIE" will, well.... die.

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Motorelay
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Connecticut
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Everything comes full circle, and women will once again be free to stay home to run the household and raise the kids, while the father goes off to earn the money. In fact, the opposite has been in effect for such a short period of time that it's historically null.

There have always been women (and men) who do not fit into this pattern, and such women have always had an alternate lifestyle choice as a teacher or a nurse. Such occupations have traditionally been low-paying but respectable for the "old maids" of society.

Meanwhile, the serious workplaces can go back to all-male without the distractions of female bodies jiggling around, and female HR harpies to make everyone else miserable. And the female politicians can crawl under a rock - although I cannot say that the men are much of an improvement in that nasty business!
Cmoledor
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Competition is bad though. Right? Right?? Uh huh. Sure it is. Happy Mothers Day to the womyns out there by the way. You crazy bitches rock!! Lol. You are prized and loved as you are.

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Grevmojo
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Northern Alabama
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Will be cool to see how it plays out. Also, those past child-bearing years will stay, already the most productive, responsible group.
Susanlauren
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The acronym DIE really does need to DIE. I am wishing for every single one of these woke companies to go broke. At my old job, there was a focus group for every single ethnicity and pronoun.

We celebrate February Black History month. Every day in February, my manager would email her staff an inspiring story of the black people who built America and made it geeat. We celebrate LGBT June Gay Pride month. Go march in a Pride Parade to show your support.

We had veterans groups, women's groups, Latino groups, Asian American groups, African American groups, Muslim groups, LGBT groups ... You name it and they had it. Of course there was a DIE Director to promote and manage all that diversity and inclusion, equity and belonging.

The only groups that were NOT permitted were a group for those whose skin color was white (because that would be racist) and a group for those who identified with the Christian faith (don't bring religion into the workplace).

It is a wonder anything got done in terms of work. I say bring it on ... 50 experiments, 50 states. May the best man (oops, I mean strong black woman) win.

Oh and another thought. One of the clinical directors circulated a drawing of "equity" vs. "equality".

"Equality" had three children standing outside a screened fence. Only the tallest child could see over the fence to watch the baseball game that was taking place on the other side of the fence. "Equity" had the tallest child standing on the ground and the other two children standing on custom height boxes - now all three children could see over the fence and watch the baseball game.

We were challenged to "make it so" for our members in their respective self insured employer plans.

On the surface, it seems innocent enough to say that people have different needs and we should meet people where they are. But that simplistic drawing raised a world of issues.

Were the kids depriving the respective baseball teams and the owners of the stadium of three paid tickets? Other spectators had to pay to get a seat behind the screened fence to watch the game. Why should these children watch for free? If every spectator in the stadium did the same thing as these children, there would be no game and no stadium because the teams and the stadium owner would be out of business

Whose responsibility was it to provide the boxes to the two children? The children themselves or someone else? Why should I pay for boxes for children who are stealing ticket money? Maybe I hate baseball with a passion. Why is this MY responsibility as a random person who happens upon the scene to solve this.

How would equity apply to the game and the teams themselves? Does the better team get two outs per inning while the not as good team gets four outs per inning. You know that "fairness thingy."

For many, many reasons we need to go back to a level playing field. Opportunity is not the same as outcome. Provide the opportunity and let people, through hard work, education, resourcefulness, etc. determine the outcome.
Invisiblesun
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Maryland
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The state of Utah has long had the lowest per-capita spending per student, and yet the state rates near the top in economic growth. At the same time blue cities like Chicago, Baltimore & DC spend three times as much per student on public education and their "graduates" can't read or do simple math.

The progressive agenda is self-destructive. Places like Baltimore and Chicago will continue to burn down until the progressive rulers are tossed out nd replaced by common sense governance.
Tickerguy
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Yep.

Chicago, as everyone knows, has a very large "diversity" quotient. When I ran MCSNet I rapidly discovered that an utterly huge percentage -- like nine in ten -- of the alleged "graduates" from High Schools there could not write a basic business letter or do four-function arithmetic either in their head or on a piece of paper with a pencil.

Both are utterly essential for even the most-menial office job, such as a front-desk clerk who answers the phone and occasionally has to take someone's payment.

The waste of time, say much less lawsuit risk, was ridiculous trying to hire people. So to get an interview with me you were given two short tests and into the conference room you went, with a 30 minute time limit and nothing other than a pencil and the test in your hands.

Nine of ten failed, some impressively. Shockingly about 30% of those who claimed to be current UofC students, and had student credentials to go with said claim to prove they really were, failed. How the **** do you get into a major 4-year degree-granting COLLEGE if you can't make change for a $20 in your ****ing head? Those who passed got interviews. I kept every single one of the tests in a big lateral file cabinet as lawsuit armor.

This was in the 1990s. I'll bet it has only gotten worse.

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Whitehat
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Kind of weird that we are having these discussions and article postings on and around Mother's Day.


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Ingar
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The product of the various branches of the Ministry of Truth like CNN is the promotion of Marxist DIE ideology. When businesses don't flee red states for the blue hives that are abortion friendly the Marxist ideologues will be sorely disappointed. That will inflict a lot of pain and anguish in their little minds.
Phillydog
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It almost certainly does...run the other way, that is
Chilzany
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Inland Northwest
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When my grandparents were in their young adult years, premarriage, both grandmothers worked as unmarried school teachers, (pre-Great Depression). Unmarried status was requirement for female school teachers back then. A male school teacher on the other hand, no such requirement, as spouse would be at home minding their own children.

One got a teacher's-college education paid by her private-sector tiny-business father, in small farming community, who required she account for every penny he spent on that education (back when a penny actually bought something). She married another college-educated teacher. He continued teaching after they married. She did not.


Other grandmother made it through high school, back when 8th grade education was celebrated with graduation ceremony and 8th grader was more educated than most high schoolers today. She began teaching school at age 18 (multiple classes in one-room school), taught 2 years then became full time wife and mother when she finally consented at age 20 to marry someone a few years older who had courted her since she was 12 or 13. That grandfather never had more than 8th grade education, was successful small-businessowner/blue collar trades his entire life. Both families made it through the GD with young families, different strategies.
Shadowmask
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NPR won't shut up abortion rights. Who do those morons think it's gonna send them money in 20 years if the liberals kill all their kids?
Troymt
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@ Susan Lauren

I saw that equity/equality meme also, but it had a third panel labeled "Fairness" and the two taller kids had their legs chopped off to make them the same height as the short kid. Loved that meme.
Metalqueen
Posts: 89
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Escapee from NoVa
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Again, all of these suppositions rest on 2 things:

1. SCOTUS will issue a full on repeal of Roe of which everyone is now assuming but not guaranteed.

2. Red states will follow through with these bans once there is no longer a chance of these being thrown out in court. Color me cynical, but suspect the Repukes passion for abortion politics stems more from the guaranteed votes it will bring than any sincere belief. And to think the other side will just move elsewhere as opposed to intensifying their efforts including the dirty tricks is naive.

As a female who never had any interest in children (and am passed that possibility anyway), while I am extremely opposed to DIE I also hate the assumptions of my work abilities, commitment, interests just because I am female. It is just another flavor of collectivism and herd thinking.

Finally I doubt state level bans will have little affect on professional women who will just travel elsewhere if they want an abortion. It will as always fall hardest on working class women who have no choice but to work as good paying blue collar jobs for men that can support a family on one salary have been gone for over 40 years.

I like this forum but the last 2 columns have been a descent into rainbow and unicorn farts land.
Aveteam
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The Oregon Outback
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Things being what they are now, I suspect once the gooberment sees red states winning (assuming it happens) it would find some way to put its thumb on the scales so the lefties won't have to pay the price for their foolishness.

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"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie"

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Pete_brewster
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Canada
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So Corporate America can afford to send admins to other states to get abortions when the boss knocks them up?

Lovely. Then they can afford to raise the wages of the men who do all the actual work while the boss is screwing the admins.

Execs like having female minions for many reasons. A big one is greater opportunities to cheat on the ball and chain (who stopped servicing him the minute the ring went on her finger, bit that's a whole other story).

If the boss knocks up his admin, have him pay for the bastard out of his own pocket for the next eighteen years. Leave shareholders out of it.
Njca
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Meritocracy is racist, dontcha know?
Metalqueen
Posts: 89
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Escapee from NoVa
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@Motorelay

Bull****. The norm for the vast majority of recorded history is NOT a stay at home mom and an off to work dad, it was life on farms where EVERYONE worked except the very young and the very old. There were different roles based on physical abilities but all had to pitch in for SURVIVAL. We are a lot closer to turning back to this model than some 50s fantasy land that was actually the aberration.

Even in the merchant class in the past these were mostly FAMILY businesses where everyone pitched in including the kids once they were old enough. My mom and her siblings helped out in her dads mattress factory from the time they were 9 or so while her mom did the books. This is a more realistic model than mommy the housewife while daddy goes off to work for The Man.

As for non-conforming women being limited to traditional occupations such as teacher or nurse, **** off. These last couple discussions have reminded me why I hate many conservatives as much if not more than the wokies smiley
Thombradley
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I cant imagine the quality of students abilities today. In the mid seventies I had to take an entrance exam to get into a well respected college prep catholic high school. Ten years later they had to offer remedial math and english courses. You used to have to take math every year. Algebra, then geometry, then trig, then what they called pre calculus. They dropped that down to two. Its why McDonalds has had the register make change for the cashier. I love to give change to round the bill to whole dollars and see the panic. I believe they have programmed that in by now.
Augeries
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North of Boston, but not North enough.
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@Thombradley
I did the same, test to get into a catholic high school. I was a 2013 graduate. At that time they were still requiring 4 years of Math, but there was always a Normal, Smart, and Stupid versions each year plus AP stuff in year 4. What was interesting was that the book size decreased based on how high level you went. The retard math of Senior year had a 2.5in bible sized textbook, while the super AP calc was under an inch. I've always wondered if that was intentional; were the program coordinators having a laugh?

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Abelardlindsey
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The overturning of Roe vs Wade, if it actually happens, will simply put the issue back on to the states, like non-fault divorce starting in 1969. Liberal states will keep it legal, conservative states will ban it, and California will make it mandatory.

Depending on the legal basis, overturning Roe vs Wade could actually work out in favor of pro-choice. The leaked memo suggests that such an overturn would be based on jurisdictional arguments. That is, it is not an issue of federal jurisdiction. If so, such a ruling would preclude the possibility of any federal-level ban on abortion, thus making it permanently a state-level political issue. This would also be beneficial to the GOP as most republicans I know personally are more libertarian than conservative. It would be nice for the GOP to morph into a more libertarian party. With abortion no longer a political issue on the federal level, there is a greater chance of this happening.

The history of no-fault divorce is instructive. CA legalized no-fault divorce in 1969 and all 50 states had followed suit by 1974. I think a similar pattern would have occurred with abortion had Roe vs Wade never happened. Likewise, there would have never been a religious right movement either starting in the late 70's. With abortion being purely a state/local issue, it would have been difficult for there to be a religious right movement in the GOP because such a movement would have had to directly move counter to the GOP's tendency for deregulation and less government control in our lives in order to push anti-abortion on the federal level. This would have made them more democrat-like in their push for more, not less, federal regulation and control. Thus, there would have been no political "home" for such a movement. Thus, it is unlikely such a political movement would ever have come into existence.

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Abelardlindsey
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If Chicago area HS graduates were that bad in the early 90's, I cannot imagine how bad they can be today, 30 years later. It must be pretty bad today. I think it was sometime in the mid 90's that that report came out about how most adults in Detroit were "functionally illiterate" (cannot read and understand a monthly utility bill, etc.).

The people I've interviewed and hired have all be either engineers, technicians, or guys who can layout, fabricate, and wire electrical control panels. Fortunately I have never had to deal with any other kind of person aside from the occasional accountant or purchasing person, and I've never been in charge of hiring these last two kinds of employees.

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It's all in the mitochondria.
Twainfan2
Posts: 599
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MN
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@Metalqueen are those working class women incapable of keeping their legs closed or using a form of birth control or making sure their male partners use a condom? I get sick of the excuses for lazy, irresponsible people. Stop getting pregnant if you don't want a child. It's not rocket surgery.

As for women staying home to care for the kids/house, what's the first thing a kid says when they get hurt? Mom. They yell for mom or go to mom for help. There is a reason for that.

I truly hope we can go back to having 50 state laboratories.
Jdough
Posts: 202
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Texifornia
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When I first moved to Texas I observed something like what you say may happen, many male coworkers who had stay at home wives raising kids, much more so than DC where I was moving from. What allowed it? I think reasonable housing and living costs, as compared to the coasts. A lot of the wives would enter or re-enter the workforce when the children started school. Now this is changing here because of the housing price ramp. Many things factor into people's decisions and actions, restricted abortions and high housing costs is uncharted territory, I'm not sure what that will bring. Regardless of my personal feelings I believe there is a war going on for this state and anything that will make politically active, resource possesing leftists and democrats leave I am in favor of. It's the only lens I look at any of it through anymore.

As for diversity, well as alluded to if it is really our strength it would be self evident and we wouldn't need to constantly be reminded, would we?

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Sonoran_monk
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Between a saguaro and an arroyo.
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Graduating kids from high school who are illiterate and innumerate is pure fraud.

And speaking of fraud, what the hell is CNN smoking talking about "make their own choices about whether and when to have children"? Do they think the stork drops off the baby?

Men and women are different. Hundreds of thousands years of evolution have not resulted in asexual reproduction for humans. That there are exceptions to this general rule only demonstrates that Gaussian distributions have tails.
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