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2022-05-07 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Musings , 712 references Ignore this thread
What If....
[Comments enabled]

..... abortion, like so many other things in alleged public-policy, is about so much more than the act?

What if the knowledge that if you get pregnant, or get someone pregnant, you now have at least gestation, childbirth and a child (whether you put same up for adoption or raise the kid) to deal with -- like it or not?  Would this deter sex among young people not intending children?  It did for me, and millions of others who were teens when chemical birth control was not available to minors and of course condoms do fail.

What if that decrease in teen sex means many, many fewer teen pregnancies in the first place?

What if that decrease means fewer young women carry the psychological burden of knowing that they could have had a child -- and didn't -- because they destroyed what was going to become their born child?

What if that decrease materially improves, on a societal basis, the mental health of said women?

What if the decrease in sexual activity among teen boys and young men means they're more-able to form permanent bonds with women because they treat sex more-closely to what completely-unprotected sexual intercourse actually is -- both the greatest power and greatest responsibility two human beings can express, complete with an always-present risk of both good and bad outcomes?

What if that improvement means more children are ultimately born to two-parent, stable family homes -- and divorce falls?

What if that improvement in turn radically cuts child poverty, gang membership and the dealing of drugs?

What if that improvement means fewer young men, especially young black men, both shoot other black men and get shot?

What if the improvement in both economic and social outcomes is largest among racial minorities, particularly blacks?

What if all of this means more men and women, in said stable, two-parent homes decide that one of them will raise the kids and the other will go work and earn enough money to keep the family stable?

What if that shift means the big, expensive blue areas become unattractive since that simply doesn't pencil out?

What if since one parent is at home raising the kids now homeschooling becomes much more-reasonable and the blue-hive and even red-area teacher's unions find themselves either being forced to stop teaching six year olds about sex or they find themselves with an empty classroom and out of work as their budgets are decimated by the loss of pupils?

What if the reason companies are now popping up saying they'll pay for travel to states where you can get an abortion if Roe is struck has nothing to do with "respecting women" at all and everything to with treating women as farm animals, deliberately goading them into abortion so they don't have to pay for maternity leave and lose employees who decide some -- or all -- of their energy is best spent on their baby instead of being a slave to the company?

Is any or all of this wild-eyed crazy?  No.

But none of it is known or proved either.

It's just a possibility -- a possibility that has been foreclosed on purpose by the so-called "social structure" we've had for the last 50 years.

Exactly how interconnected all this really is in terms of outcomes is not known because we've always assumed abortion is a one-dimensional thing and that the definition of the boundaries isn't even that set forward by Roe -- oh no, that wasn't far enough, was it?

It's not a one-dimensional thing.

I know for a fact that it isn't.

I know it isn't because when I was a teen there were many times I said "No" to sex because I knew the only protection I had against her getting pregnant was a condom, and while they work the odds are what the odds are -- they're not good enough standing alone.  That's not to say I didn't have sex.  I did have sex.  But I had a lot less sex than I would have otherwise.

Many times I said "No" because of that risk; if there had been no risk I would have said "Yes" a lot more, and that's a fact.

Today any girl who wants chemical birth control can have it without her parents knowing she is getting it.  Today, any girl who wants an abortion can get one and in most states her parents do not have to be informed or give consent.  Today, the "state of play" that I and everyone else had in my younger years in college where we're all adults, we're over 18, we can go to the health center and get whatever since its nobody business but ours extends to twelve year old kids yet the costs of same are never theirs; they are thrown off on their parents or society generally by force.

If you think this doesn't change how boys -- not just girls -- look at the risks and rewards you're dead wrong.  It most-certainly does.

If there are 50 state laboratories in a few years, certainly within a decade we will see if any of the possible good things -- or some bad ones -- come to pass.  We'll have multiple different states, different sets of rules and different outcomes.

The evidence will rapidly accumulate as to who was right -- and who was wrong.

I'm sure there will be both good and bad on both sides.  There's plenty of both now from what we've done over the last 50 years, so why would one expect that the same won't occur here?

Only one side of this debate, however, is scared of that happening -- aren't they?

And if you think it ends there wait until you you read about what I think is going on with the employers and what they are actually afraid of.  It's not just paying for maternity leave.

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Cmoledor
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What if .....youre correct again?? And my money says you are. Good food for thought. Thanks Karl. Wishing you well.

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The whole world is one big ****ing scam
Why are you giving a vulgarity warning here? Our genial host is an advocate of both skull****ing and sodomy via rusty chainsaw. Credit to Rollformer
Njca
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Low impulse control types will still have at it, if you get my drift.
Shadowmask
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Health care costs for kids is high, at least the insurance companies charge a lot for it.
Susanlauren
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Abortion has become "just another birth control method." That pregnancy ... That baby is an inconvenience. To a career. To finances. To the guy who might end up married when he wants to be fancy free or who would much prefer to not have to pay child support for the next 18 years. So the solution is simple - just kill what is inconvenient to you.

When I worked in the cardiac ICU, I cared for two women who had medical issues that put their lives in jeopardy - one woman had cystic fibrosis and the other had a cardiac condition. Both women had second trimester abortions to try and save their own lives. One woman died (the one with CF) and the other woman lived (the one with the cardiac condition).

We are not talking about banning abortions for women who have these sorts of health issues. The "banning abortions will kill women who need one because they have an ectopic pregnancy" is nothing more than a red herring.

If we can't decide when life begins and if "that thing growing inside a woman's uterus" is just a blob of tissue, then why do women who miscarry grieve the loss of that "blob of tissue?" Why, indeed. And significant strides have been made in terms of detecting pregnancy, birth control methods and neonatal ICU care.

I will venture a guess as to why employers are afraid of Roe v. Wade being overturned. What if all those "what ifs" result in a critical number of women leaving the work force. Employers are struggling to hire workers as it is. That task may well become even more difficult if women leave careers for the more traditional role of "stay at home mom."
Susanlauren
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I have another "what if"...

What if the COVID vaxx impacts fertility rates and in turn the number pregnancies? How will that affect abortion numbers? Will more women opt to continue the pregnancy to birth? Or will more women opt for abortion because of fear of birth defects? Will there be more spontaneous abortions and fetal deaths for women of childbearing age? Or will there be some other impact?

We don't know the answers to these questions right now, but time will tell. I suspect we won't like the answers when time gives up her secrets and solid numbers/ data is available. For now, the data coming out of the US military branches for enlisted women who received the COVID vaxx while pregnant is very concerning. It does not bode well.
Dingleberry
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I can see this concept working for those with a modicum of intelligence, and for those who actually care and are realistic about their future. Penalize those who **** up, instead of rewarding them as a certain political persuasion has done for 60 years running.

But of our human zoos are chock full of guys who spray and pray, and women who are carousel riders. Welfare and other gov childcare programs will always be around, no way will even the "conservative" soccer moms vote against stealing yours and my money to support "the childrenz". I've found that pretty much all women are feminists, it's only a matter of degree. And they make up a majority of the electorate. Then toss in the millennial.

I do like the logic of this post. The ****ery of the 60s-70s (birth control, welfare, no fault divorce-rape Friend of the ****, etc), and women trading chastity for promiscuity (thanks Boomers) have deracinated the youth of this nation. Permanently.

In a remotely sane and semi-moral society, this concept would work.

But I'm afraid that ship has sailed.
Tickerguy
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Eh, no @Dingleberry. That's why, however, the reeeeing folks are horrified at the idea of 50 state laboratories on this.

They don't know what will happen but they fear it because if it DOES happen their claims of the last several decades get destroyed on an objective and irrefutable basis.

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Jpg
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Quote:
For now, the data coming out of the US military branches for enlisted women who received the COVID vaxx while pregnant is very concerning.


Iceland's not lookin' good, either:

https://dailyexpose.uk/2022/05/05/icelan....
Edward.fish
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Karl Denninger wrote..
What if the reason companies are now popping up saying they'll pay for travel to states where you can get an abortion if Roe is struck has nothing to do with "respecting women" at all and everything to with treating women as farm animals, deliberately goading them into abortion so they don't have to pay for maternity leave and lose employees who decide some -- or all -- of their energy is best spent on their baby instead of being a slave to the company?

There were a few of these policies, and registrations of a few protest websites, that apparently happened before the leak.

Susanlauren wrote..
We are not talking about banning abortions for women who have these sorts of health issues. The "banning abortions will kill women who need one because they have an ectopic pregnancy" is nothing more than a red herring.

If we can't decide when life begins and if "that thing growing inside a woman's uterus" is just a blob of tissue, then why do women who miscarry grieve the loss of that "blob of tissue?" Why, indeed. And significant strides have been made in terms of detecting pregnancy, birth control methods and neonatal ICU care.

@Susanlauren -- The whole of "medical emergency" is a red herring when it comes to abortion; in fact, it could be arguably better for everyone involved to have law recognize all abortions as murder and push the determination of "guilty"/"not guilty" to the jury: any doctors having a troubled conscience would have the benefit of a jury of the people declaring him not guilty.

Susanlauren wrote..
I will venture a guess as to why employers are afraid of Roe v. Wade being overturned. What if all those "what ifs" result in a critical number of women leaving the work force. Employers are struggling to hire workers as it is. That task may well become even more difficult if women leave careers for the more traditional role of "stay at home mom."

Possibly.
Though employers have been spoiled by having things blow up right when they would have to start raising wages: 2008-12, the whole economic "recession" and ObamaCare motivating fewer hours for workers... then, 2020 shutdowns killing off tens of thousands of small businesses, just as Millennials traditionally would be entering "Senior" level positions, just in time for employers to tack on 7 years experience as "requirement" for "entry level" jobs? -- And this is to say nothing of the obvious H1B fraud.*
Awfully convenient.


* So systemic that the Awan Brothers actually exist (!?), which necessitates that there's no qualified Americans to handle Congress's IT needs -- you're going to tell me that no Citizen of the US is qualified to handle such a sensitive network? That NO Army/Navy/Marine has the technical clearance, or ability to get a security clearance?
Bull****.
Cluelessinfl
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Abortion is the Holy Sacrament of feminism. The baby is sacrificed on the altar of female empowerment.

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Tickerguy
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@Njca -
Quote:
Low impulse control types will still have at it, if you get my drift.

So what?

Are you intentionally missing the point or is there something else going on?

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Civil Society requires 99%+ consent.
Stop consenting and it is forced to stop. Always.
No violence required.
Egallred
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Quote:
Low impulse control types will still have at it, if you get my drift.

What if impulse control is, like many things, partly innate and partly learned behavior?
Dingleberry
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TG,

I pray you are correct. And you do tend to have a predilection of being so.........my ego can stand being wrong (yet again).

Skybluepink
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Parents of teenagers would probably also step-up and you know, PARENT them. Chaperones existed back in the day for a reason.
Tickerguy
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Or maybe not.

But individual results don't matter from a sociological perspective. Statistical results matter.

That's the entire point of all of this.

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Civil Society requires 99%+ consent.
Stop consenting and it is forced to stop. Always.
No violence required.
Chromehill
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I live in Maryland, a state that believes there is no such thing as too many abortions. Yet the state laws driven by the political left are a huge contradiction.

1. If a pregnant woman is murdered, the State can and at times will charge the perpetrator with two murders. One for Mom and one for the unborn child. Thus the State recognizes that the unborn child is indeed a life and not a clump of tissue.

2. Maryland does not have a death penalty. The most severe punishment is life without parole no matter how heinous the crime.

3. Maryland has some of the most liberal abortion laws in the country, including late term abortions. The State does actually believe in the death penalty, just it is for unborn children.

I have yet to see anyone if Maryland's government explain the logic of the above.

Blacks voting overwhelmingly for Democrats who, basically all are in favor of lots of abortions. Yet, Margaret Sanger who found Planned Parenthood and the abortion movement made no bones about it, its purpose was to depopulate the black race.

Planned Parenthood's own statistics show that 92 to 93% of abortions are elective, that is the baby is not wanted. Another 6 to 7% are for economic reasons. Less than 1% are for rape, incest or the mother's health.

The less than 1% that the Left uses as excuses for abortion on demand for all, can simply be addressed:

1. Claim******as the reason for the abortion, the woman has to file a police report. If it turns out that the******claim was false, woman goes to prison.

2. Incest, genetic testing is done on the baby while in the womb.

3. Mother's heath - the medical condition is documented and reviewed. If it turns out to be a lie, the mother and doctor who documented the medical condition go to prison.

4. Quality of life for the baby - see #3.

Something tells me the Left would not like the above, after all, they do not want to have their child sacrifices taken away from them. It is a religion to them.

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"Power, like the reproductive muscle, longs to be exercised, often without judgement or right" - Gerry Spence
Njca
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@TG, Hope I am not missing the point, just reflecting on Margaret Sanger. One possibility is that in states that outlaw abortion, there will be a tilt towards procreation by low impulse control types who reallly don't care about the outcome, whereas in states that do not outlaw abortion, the result of their lack of impluse control will be denied reaching out of womb viability. Yes, outlawig abortion may positiely affect the behavior of responsible folks and borderline responsible folks.
Tickerguy
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@Njca - And again you ascribe that to a race, right? Which incidentally magically acquired these qualities after Roe? What were the stats like on broken homes and single parents in said population PRIOR TO ROE? What are they now?

Or did they respond to incentives, as do all people? Perhaps those in various levels of capacity (which of course is indeed unique, but there are distributions differences) weight those incentives differently? Someone with less capacity views the incentive as having more value than someone with more, simply because when put on their personal scale of value the incentive IS, objectively, worth more!

Heh wait -- you tried to claim those people were irrational and had "poor impulse control." Really? Or is it more-likely that if your IQ is 85, and thus being a doctor or engineer is foreclosed and there's nothing you can do about it, the extra $5,000 to poop out a kid is suddenly worth a LOT since it takes you FOUR MONTHS to make that sort of money where if your IQ is 130, and you ARE an engineer or doctor, that $5,000 can be made in a week and you don't give a **** about it.

Oh..... gee.

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Civil Society requires 99%+ consent.
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No violence required.

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I do believe that this is THE most powerful ticker I have read yet!!!

BRAVO GOOD SIR!!!

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@Ingar "In the meantime, our fascination with world class rappers, break dancers, basketball dribblers and football catchers might amuse us, but will not feed us. Neither will our commitment to diversity, equity, and social justice."
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Good ticker.
Quote:
Is any or all of this wild-eyed crazy? No.
But none of it is known or proved either.

True. But as you know:
Show me the incentives and I will show you the outcome. Thats a Charlie Munger

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The unexamined life is not worth living.-Socrates
The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law.-Aristotle
Liberty exists now in the spaces government has not yet chosen to occupy.-Doc Zero
I anticipate that 10 Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders will blow me this evening.-K.D.
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To quote Starship Troopers:

[/i][/b]"It's Afraid"[/i][/b]


The hippie generation knows its ideas are being rejected. It's immune system, made of up reeeeeeing youths, karens, antifa, feminists, black criminals, and politicians is out screeching and causing problems/chaos.

They deeply fear the 50 state lab model because they would be proven wrong about everything!

Bluto
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Great post TG

The state doesn't want strong families since strong families means strong communities, which means centralized Washington cannot control cities, counties, and states.

With broken families, the state become "the man" to single mom, creating an unholy threesome. The state provides the cash to single moms. A random Chad provides the dick to the single mom. And the state then gives the rest of us a bigger dick in the ass to pay for all it and tell us what to do.

This shows up in the political polling data as the shift towards the GOP by Hispanics is being partially offset by the shift towards the Democrats of unmarried women. I think it something like a 2:1 margin of unmarried women voting for Dems. More unmarried women equals more Democrat votes.

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"Your heart is free. Have the courage to follow it." -- Malcolm Wallace from "Braveheart"
Eleua
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Imagine if employers lost a significant chunk of women for their labor force.

Half the productivity at twice the price, or something like that.

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Diversity + proximity = WAR
We are governed by sexual degenerates, Satanists, traitors, retards, cowards, sociopaths, and megalomaniacs - CHANGE MY MIND
That kind of sums up the last month since the election, a giant amber alert for Trump's balls. - Davkj1
Bluto
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One of the ugliest things I have seen in my life is the inability of humans to bond to each other as they should. It is not uncommon for spouses to divorce after 20 or 30 years to chase whatever bull**** they have been told by the "best life now" liars.

Women with a large number of partners and/or those on anti-depressants seem to lack the ability to bond. And the pick-up artist men may have the ability, but not the desire.

Sex without consequences fuels much of this. None of this will end well as @Susanlauren says.

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"Your heart is free. Have the courage to follow it." -- Malcolm Wallace from "Braveheart"
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