8k posts, incept 2008-05-19
Yep either lose the degree OR a restructuring to keep the degree. I'd even be as gracious as to allow a prorated number of credits based on what you DID pay, but that's probably too administratively complicated to implement.
For those whinging, folks can always take placement tests (especially for core classes) to recoup credits. Don't pass those? Well, looks like you didn't get anything out of it.
jihad pressure cooker tea party guns Constitution Bill of Rights play doh squiggly line prepper home garden clusterfuck
541 posts, incept 2017-02-14
Years ago I had a dead end job in a state agency based on the qualification of having a political science degree. I spoke on the phone with the local bank holding the note on my student loans which were not insurmountable since the tuition back in the late 60's and early 70's wasn't high. One of the black co-workers had overheard my conversation about repaying the loans. He told me "you're a fool if you repay those loans; you don't have to, none of us (meaning the black employees in the agency) repaid ours". I repaid my loans. But that is how we got to where we are now, too many people didn't repay their student loans and laws were passed prohibiting bankruptcy as an escape.
I'm sure that my alma mater is still handing out political science degrees and a lot of other useless ones as well, but at a greatly increased tuition cost. Although many of the degrees are pretty much self-invalidating as far as qualifying someone for any gainful employment, I like the idea of revoking the degree if loans are forgiven. If someone wishes to pursue a women's studies, fine arts, political science or other kindred degree, there should be no governmentally guaranteed loans for said degrees. And rather than receiving a nice parchment diploma upon graduation with aforesaid degree, the graduate should receive a token of recognition that is of equal value to the degree, maybe a roadkill skunk, possum, or armadillo freeze dried and plaque mounted with the graduate's name in faux gold script beneath the critter.
198 posts, incept 2008-02-22
I know many people in that same position - making six figures (multiples of that) buying vacation rentals and deferring student debt expecting it to be written off. It irks me to no end as I paid my six figures of loans off by busting ass.
I revamped my career to allow myself to retire as early as possible so I can stop funding this sort of crap with the exorbitant taxes I pay. Its a 4-19 year plan but Im minimizing my contribution to anyone woke, lazy, or anti-personal liberties.
1k posts, incept 2010-03-03
Regarding the degree forfeiture, I would take it one step further, revoke any professional licenses. This would nail the doctor, pharmacist, nurse, etc deadbeats.
'Power, like the reproductive muscle, longs to be exercised, often without judgement or right' - Gerry Spence
"Above all, while defending our own vital interests, nuclear powers
207 posts, incept 2019-06-19
I agree with Karl, the only way to clear the student debt that the general public would not revolt over would be to have the debt dischargeable in bankruptcy...I see it as the only semi-fair solution. I hadn't thought about the taking the degree back...doubt it would go down that way.
Unfortunately, I don't think this is how it will play out. My prediction is is that within the next 2 yrs the government will forgive up to $50k of student loan debt...and they will get away with it by using two arguments:
1. Racism and white privilege arguments - they will argue that having students declare bankruptcy would unduly disadvantage minorities since "they had to take out the most student loans due to their oppressed upbringing and can't pay the off due to lower wages from systemic racism" or some such bullshit argument.
2. They will time it to coincide with the coming real estate collapse. The housing bubble will pop and they will wrap the $50k in student loan forgiveness in the same legislation they will try to pass to forgive up to $50k in mortgage debt for people who bought in the bubble and are now underwater. They will get more buy-in from the general public this way.
You guys watch....it's coming....people who paid their loans off or didn't take them, and people that made responsible decisions in real estate will get screwed.
475 posts, incept 2021-09-12
@Tickerguy - Bravo.
it is simply this -- you do not have a right to keep something you contracted to pay for and then didn't. That's the beginning and end of it.
Straight shooters always pay the price themselves (if it's worth paying).
Grifters want the other guy
to pay, until they become the other guy.
Sooner or later, the theft stops because the other guy gets tired of being fucked and ending up with nothing.
And like you've said before, no one works for free.
Maybe these students should listen to this:You can't get something for nothing; you can't have freedom for free.
You won't get wise with the sleep still in your eyes, no matter what your dream might be!
"Threats are illogical. And payment is usually expensive." - Sarek of Vulcan
25 posts, incept 2022-04-30
@Tickerguy, yes, I agree that maybe taking away the degree is the moral answer, though I think repossession of the collateral is even better. Since there's no way to suck the knowledge out of someone's head and sell it back to the college, they will have to find a different way of securing it -- parent, the college itself, some business, maybe a community that desperately needs a doctor. Or the way I did it -- run a coding business and sell it before going for my degree.
I have my PE in three states, and none of them require proof of a BS degree to renew. So you would have to add that as a step in licensure. Easy, sure, but necessary. However, that's only going to affect those who need licenses to practice. Which excludes almost all BAs, and I'd guess at least half of all BSs.
Yes, I get that the law had been changed to prevent strategic defaults, but that method was exactly the wrong answer. Your plan is much better than theirs. But I think even better would be to get government out of the picture entirely, let the strategic defaults happen, and let the banksters get their comeuppance for not sufficiently collateralizing the debt. I think it's the only way to align incentives to not loan money for underwater gender studies weaving degrees, which would necessarily push down prices.
2k posts, incept 2021-11-22
I'll comment by not commenting on this subject. I'm quite bitter about all of it. Suffice to say I couldn't even qualify for a Pell grant back in the day even though we were living in the projects and mom was working two jobs while trying to get her teaching degree. But all of our "neighbors" got free rides. Ended up getting a lousy GI bill benefit, supplemented with private student loans to get an A.A.S. which in hindsight has done fuck all for me. And I paid back every single penny.
Si Vis Pacem, para Bellum
You'll get less than you desire, but more than you deserve
180 posts, incept 2021-02-02
The problem as I see it is college and university is only part of the issue.
We do education ack basswards.
Its been going on for some time, little by little over decades.
The federal dept of education became a seminal marker in time.
College over the years has been pushed. Then due to equity theres also been a push to make the out come equal.
Not everyone should go to university.
And if someone does there should be significant skin in the game.
I want to know where are all the payments and loan forgiveness for those that chose a trade and paid as they went and took responsibility and ownership of their own education, whatever form that took.
I worked full time and paid as I went to earn mine. No loans. Those that cheat make me wanna well you know.
2k posts, incept 2021-04-13
Brilliant and simple. So no. It wont be implemented. Cheers!
The whole world is one big fucking scam
Full throttle till the end. Ocdawg
Take the stick you tried to beat me with and go fuck your own face. Ishmael
326 posts, incept 2007-11-26
The government should never have got into the private loan business in the first place. And all three of your ideas are absolutely what should take place to get those involved to take some responsibility in taking such loans. After all, for the rest of their life theyll be responsible for any loans taken (supposedly). Schools of higher learning are supposed to teach you, in addition to the subject at hand, about responsibility and life after graduation. Are you not required to take any math courses prior to graduation these days?
However, like usual I can not see them doing the right thing and taking the correct steps to resolve the issue. It actually will make things worse, because now these people will just figure any excess debt they acquire will simply be waived at some future date. After all, schools are for learning. And this is one thing that will be learned.
One question that hasnt been answered anywhere is where the cut off for the Forgiveness would be placed. Graduation plus one year... five years... or twenty years after? If they make any cutoff date, there will be those that fall out of that specific time period. Will they sue because they have excessive student debt also?
"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." --Samuel Adams
52 posts, incept 2022-02-23
Colleges and universities are just overpriced credentials racket.
What is the real value of brick and mortar educational institution these days?
Universities would have to cut down tremendously on administration (major cost increase), athletics, real-estate development and all other side gigs they
277 posts, incept 2021-11-01
I graduated in the late 70s 2 years community college 2 years at a "university" total cost all in was about 5K Got my CPA and away I went. People over the years said CPA how boring why did you pick that? i replied because I could earn a living and I had 6 job offers from the "big eight" CPA firms before I graduated. My circle of friends in college at the time were astonished I was making 20 K out of the box. My Dad never made 30 K in his life as a highly skilled machinist. They were studying economics, poly sci , marketing, liberal arts (whatever the F that is? Music etc etc. As I posted before my wife and I paid about 250K putting two kids through university. Would I be pissed they forgive student loans. Let me think Yesssss.
1k posts, incept 2021-07-23
What do you call a college program where you can't graduate in four years because they don't offer enough sessions of the critical classes required for the degree?
Yup, saw that happen and had it happen to me. Highly paid administrators just shrug their shoulders and tell you to come back next semester and maybe you can get the class you need. MAYBE.
Colleges need a huge dose of financial accountability to their students. Eliminate all the crap general ed classes that promote social engineering. Get rid of the loans. Make the degrees worth something again.
1k posts, incept 2009-06-16
How would we pay for this bail out for students?
This was Commie Rumor, but they were going to tax unrealized gains on the stock market including 401ks/ERAs/IRAs and Property Values. Talk about robbing people...
54 posts, incept 2021-08-20
I agree with Karl, that the main issue is the government involvement. But I also agree with Dingleberry that it is a demographics issue. If it were only straight white men that were having trouble paying back their student loans, no one would give a shit. But most of the debt is held by women and a lot of that is held by black women. So this is just another bail out for women. Or a transfer of money from men to women.
I feel sort of bad that these women (and a few men) believed the lie that any degree is a good degree, but not that sorry. Even after their student loans are forgiven, they'll still be working at Starbucks.
68 posts, incept 2008-10-23
My son is currently pursuing an engineering degree and after seeing what he's dealing with I'm strangely ok with taking the education for free. At least the general math and science requirements stuff. Those classes can be taken at a community college for a fraction of the cost you pay at university and they transfer just fine.
What do you get for a fraction of the cost? An online class where the teacher may provide a weekly pre-recorded video lecture and maybe some scribbled notes. At best. At worst its just canned homework questions from the book of contrived, academically difficult for no reason, stem problems. Then a couple of tests using questions from the back of the same book. How much effort is the teacher really putting in? What's the salary for this type of expertise?
In reality American students are being taught by Indian students via websites like chegg and similar, and when all else fails; symbol lab.
165 posts, incept 2021-09-26
My opinion is it would be more practical to consider forgiven college debt in bankruptcy as taxable income on a sliding scale to prevent unethical default for 5 to 10 years post graduation, and also make any college that accepts federal money be responsible for up to 50% of a loan in the event of default.
I have both bachelors and masters degrees, and no employer save the first has ever bothered to even ask about them or check them out - all later jobs have cared about is work experience. And since the first job was a bit nepotistic anyway, I dont think any formal checking was done there other than talking to the one professor the first boss knew personally.
1k posts, incept 2013-12-25
Ib0, the other side effect of the cost of a degree falling like a rock would be that the luxuries currently available would vanish. Cafeteria food wouldn't be a choice of 16 different smorgasbords of gourmet food and dorms wouldn't have a separate toilet for each room. The food might have a choice of a couple different mystery meats and there would only be one or two communal toilets per floor.
195k posts, incept 2007-06-26
Which @Lobo, was what it was when I was of that age.
The difference between "kill" and "murder" is that murder, as a subset of kill, is undeserved by the deceased.
174 posts, incept 2021-11-26
The "10% for the big guy" example of bribery gave me an idea for giving politicians an incentive to spend less public money. This is a kind of anti-graft proposal that might be popular with those who favor smaller government:
Give all those who hold elected office -- from the local dog-catcher up to the POTUS -- a base pay, and then give them an annual salary bonus of 0.001% for every dollar of public spending they REDUCE. So, if the Prez reduced the annual budget by $100 billion, for that year he'd get a personal bonus of $100 million. Or if a state governor cut his state's budget by $100 million, he'd get $100,000. A good incentive to cut public spending!
Of course, one man alone (POTUS, or a governor, or mayor, or town councilor) may not be able to make the decision to cut the budget by X amount; if it has to be voted on, then maybe the bonus would have to be divided among those officeholders assisting in making the cut.
I think of it as a kind of reverse bribery. Let them get a bonus, if that's what will help save trillions from our public expenditures.
207 posts, incept 2019-06-19
Yep, When I started college in the mid 80's we were in 50's style cement block buildings...build solid as a rock by the way; two to a room; male and female wings; with one communal bathroom per floor for each wing; split into three parts (sink area, bathroom stall area, shower area).
There were two or three cafeterias around campus we would all eat together. We had to live in them for 2 years before moving off campus. In hindsight I loved it...built character, I would suppose much like a hitch in the army.
Now those are gone, torn down to build luxury dorm buildings that are nicer than most of the apartment buildings I've lived in..bathroom and kitchenette in each room. Of course they are several times more expensive...and of course the students pay for it with their student loans....in other words, the university has become a landlord, with guaranteed tenants, with the rents backed by the government.
Oh and by the way the students are required to live on campus another year now.....
174 posts, incept 2021-11-26
Oops, sorry, I think I calculated wrongly. Math was never my strength. Correct me if I'm getting this wrong:
the elected officeholder would get a "kickback" of not 1%, not 0.1%, but 0.01% (or 1/10,000th) of the total amount he is able to cut from his budget in a year.
So, if the POTUS were to save $100 billion from the US federal budget, that year he'd get a personal salary bonus of $10 million that would go in his pocket, for having saved the nation from that amount of spending. A nice incentive to spend less public money!
Maybe the bonus should be more or less than what I'm proposing, I don't know. The point is to try to find some way to encourage our elected officials to spend less, not more.