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2022-03-29 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Foreign Policy , 2519 references Ignore this thread
You Will Pay In Rubles! No?
[Comments enabled]

Good luck Europe.

BERLIN -- The Group of Seven major economies have agreed to reject Moscow’s demand to pay for Russian natural gas exports in rubles, the German energy minister said Monday.

Robert Habeck told reporters that “all G-7 ministers agreed completely that this (would be) a one-sided and clear breach of the existing contracts.” He said officials from France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United States, the United Kingdom and Canada met Friday to coordinate their position and that European Union representatives also were present.

So what?

It was also a breach of "contract" to seize property and money of both Russia and private citizens who happen to be Russian, the latter in particular being done without evidence presented that a crime has been committed for which such a forfeit is reasonably tied to the alleged crime.

I get it that nation states often think of contracts and private property rights as "quaint", say much less a basic right to life.  After all war, by its nature, vitiates all such claimed pleasantries.

The very nature of war also means that once you take sides expecting anyone on the other side to do anything for you is rather foolish.  This is the price that is exacted when you extend the concept of "trade blunting the will to use bullets" into not just voluntary associations but essential goods and services where you have no reasonable substitutes available.

Of course the G7 nations can refuse to pay for their gas in Rubles and argue that such a demand is a unilateral breach of the agreements made with Russia.

However, the sanctions are a unilateral and prior breach of the same agreements by the G7, since the G7 agreed to pay for said gas, and with the sanctions in place the payment cannot be made.  Since the imposing parties of said sanctions include the recipients of the gas this is legally and functionally the same as agreeing to pay $50,000 for a car and then getting in it and driving away after putting a stop payment order on the check.

In the common vernacular that's fraud.

Nobody is going to let you get away with that if they can help it and, if you manage to get away with it once the second time you won't get the car until you prove you can deliver to the other party good funds for both the new and the previous vehicle you stole by conversion.

Thus while Germany and other nations can refuse to pay in Rubles it is equally true that by breaching the covenant implied in all commercial transactions to deliver good funds in exchange for the good or service, which the G7 has done, the contract has been vitiated by the G7 and, in point of fact, Russia has delivered natural gas without being paid for the last month.

There's no reason for them to continue to do that and thus it is entirely reasonable for them to shut the pipelines down until the sanctions are lifted and every single Dollar or Euro due for the previously-delivered volume is safely in Russia and available for use.

Just because Putin is a bastard doesn't mean that, on this matter, he is not correct.

Nobody is under any obligation, ever, to deliver something without being paid for it and it is the G7 who violated the contractual terms by refusing to pay.  That decision was entirely within their sphere of control and thus Russia's demand to cover all such deliveries in a form of payment usable by Russia in the present tense is not only reasonable you'd insist on the same at your own personal job so spare me the wailing about how "unreasonable" such a demand might be.

Or Germany and other European nations can freeze in the dark should they so desire.

You have to wonder if Germans still think it was a wise idea to hitch their energy wagon to Russia while shutting down their perfectly-functional nuclear and coal plants.....

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Prof_dilligaf
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"private citizens who happen to be Russian, the latter in particular being done without evidence presented that a crime has been committed for which such a forfeit is reasonably tied to the alleged crime"

So they're treating these Russians just like Americans with civil forfeitures. How cosmopolitan of them.
Veeger
Posts: 458
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Washington state
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I have marveled at the supreme arrogance and ignorance of the West. There are some very hard lessons coming and we will bear the brunt of our leaders stupidity and greed. They have been lining their pockets for years and acting as if the good times will never end. But theyve gone one number too far and their schemes will bring them down. Unfortunately, they will continue to play stoopid games until the pitchforks come out. Uh, I SAID, Until the pitchforks come out. Anybody? Buehler?

Pitchforks?


(Im gonna just go get me another cappuccino and see the latest on the Oscars brouhaha )
Mikivoja
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They got caught by the Russian response, because these are the people that never suffer the consequences of their blunders, and the sanctions were not part of some carefully planned and executed action (like the Russian invasion), but rather just driven by the media frenzy. Now they have to eat their hats, potentially by candlelight.
Psmcd
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slc ut
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At what point will their disregard for reality become self limiting? I would expect persons so goofy as to claim breach of contract after imposing sanctions are in danger of stepping in front of a bus or off a cliff.

My epiphany yesterday was the American Dream has been rendered so absurd there is no logical disparity to consider global warming, crt, lgbt, mmt, social distancing or any bullshit du jour. We're left debating absurdities for maintaining there's opportunity for those who have been excluded from the dream.
Ocdawg
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Let's go Brandon, WI
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Yep
"Stupid is as stupid does.
Forrest Gump

Hey look... its getting dark outside....
smiley

----------
"You're a stupid son-of-a-bitch"
-Scrappin' Joey Shitpants to Peter Doocy the American People
smiley
Greenacr
Posts: 529
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Northern Ohio
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Russia ultimately holds has the better poker hand and after the Ukranian action resolves thing will gradually return to pre-invasion normal. The difference between the West the East is that the East will learn from it's mistakes and further ensnare the West economically while rebuilding/changing their military. The West will look at it as time to Party On....
Twainfan2
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MN
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It would be interesting to watch if Putin shut the pipeline down today. The EU deserves no less.
Dingleberry
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Those silly Europeans. Why aren't they getting Greta's expert opinion during this crisis? Obviously she carries a lot of weight over there.....a modern little Joan of Arc, fighting (with her mouth) a holy war against globull warming...er, "climate change".

"Schadenfreude" is a German word. Just sayin'.

And unlike in conflicts past.....this one got real personal, real quick. Calls for actual violence and discrimination/sanctions against average Russian citizens? That should work wonders.

Remember 9/11 and the "we aren't against all Muslims" thingy? Seems like that concept got thrown out the window. Wonder what that will do for Putin's popularity?

Use to be we had simple liars for leaders. Now we have added stupid, and evil.





Whitehat
Posts: 8998
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Operation Escape from New York
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i have heard some of the greenies arguing that had we fully embraced alternative energy, we would not have had these international energy trade concerns.

My contribution to the debate was that i considered nuclear energy to be an alternative source and inquired if any were interested in attempting to pass a few science and math exams from an average 1940s high school.

No takers.

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smiley "How are you feeling? Kind of under the weather? Like you've got the flu?"
Workerbee
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Never give in, never give up, never stop growing
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The G7 deserves to freeze, be in the dark and starve.

The arrogance of these leaders is surpassed only by their ignorance.

It's astounding that in 2022 we've devolved into a shadow of what we once were.

Heads on pikes is where we are heading.

I'm ok with that.

I'm not rooting FOR Putin, but the G7 deserves everything they're about to get.

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"Keep pushing fuckers, you'll find the trip wire eventually"
~ Quik49

"This is the part where you find out who you are"
Windellmc
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Indianapolis
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Russia has been shipping gas for a month without getting paid? Putin is more understanding than I would be in his position.
Krzelune
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Joancrawford
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Better stock up on the popcorn, folks. Forgive me, but I'm a little heartened by all of this brouhaha.

First off, I'm not a war monger. It truly pains me dearly to see yet another stupid war, led by self important, arrogant, stupid "leaders", out to steal more resources for themselves and their cronies. Not to mention more dead white Europeans littering their own soil, a very positive outcome for a certain tribe that's behind this f*cking mess.

Here's the upshot for me: Nobody, not Karl, not me, not you, not the truckers, NOBODY has ever stood up to these evil bastards and WON. We've bitched, we've whined, we protested, we did not comply, and were IGNORED.

Now these pansy assed rulers are having to deal with a real man with BALLS. Gentlemen, I give you Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.

So he's a bastard? Okay. I'm not married to him. He likes them much younger and prettier than me. As far as I'm concerned, he's the only one who's standing in the way of the NWO bullshit.

I don't fancy that the next decade here in the U.S. is going to be anything but god awfully painful, financially speaking. But the alternative our "rulers" have offered, that I will own nothing and be happy, is a Christmas present I'd just as soon not open.

So pardon me if I quietly chuckle away over here in my little corner. This Putin guy just bitch slapped the G-7. And there is absolutely nothing they can do about it.

You bitches made this shit sandwich. No STFU, sit down, and eat.every.last.morsel.....ASSHOLES!!

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Don't f*ck with me fellas! This ain't my first time at the rodeo.

America-it was a good run while it lasted. RIP!
Boredfree
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western slope colorado
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I was talking to a couple of new volunteer firefighters last night at our wildland fire fighting class about Putin.

In a fit I said that if Putin put a nuke into D.C. when all the politicians were there he would be a real hero.

They two looked at me sideways and then laughed, agreeing with me. They hadn't thought about that happening and I could see something had changed in them... they understood who their real enemies are, and they ain't Russian.

You realize how fucked the nation is when your only hope of fixing the mess is from the gun barrel of a foreign government.

What's the use of the 2nd if nobody uses it?


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The problem is most people want to point a finger rather than their thumb when dealing with challenges.
Winesorbet
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Online
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Seems like the market is banking on peace and is pricing accordingly. It has been a monster rally from lows. Who knows if it will hold but damn, once again gloom and doom was wrong. I write this not to be snarky but I'm a but jaded after 12 years of bullshit.
Franco
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Its astounding to me that the whole world agreed to do international commerce only in USD in the first place, and that they kept that up for like 80 years. And now the G7 is saying niet to Russias demand to be paid in its own currency, as if it were a preposterous demand.
Pete_brewster
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Canada
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Explain this to me like I'm a six year old.

What does Putin have to gain from selling the Empire energy at all?

Shouldn't his focus be making sure the Empire never threatens Russia again? Because he could do that in a single night.
Tickerguy
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A True American Patriot!
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Why not take their money? I see no negative in that.

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Civil Society requires 99%+ consent.
Stop consenting and it is forced to stop. Always.
No violence required.
Gianmarko
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Bern, Switzerland
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germany is basically in the hands of the watermelons, green outside, red inside.
all this serves them pretty well in order to force into people the absurd net zero religion.

they will say it was putin fault.

lets not forget these are the same criminals who put millions on house arrest on the basis that they could be positive to a test.
and most people went along with it

i dont trade stocks, but if i did, i would invest in stihl and huskvarna.




Boredfree
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western slope colorado
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And I'll add from my perspective Russia has shown the world who the military power really is.

Look at how the west prosecuted the Iraqis for allowing Saddam to remain in power. How many tons of munitions did we drop? How many billions did we waste BEFORE committing the first ground troops?

After we had boots on the ground, how well did we do? We 'liberated' a bunch of people who were likely better off before we 'helped'. Kinda pissed a bunch of the people off, and made it impossible for the coalition of the willing to win the hearts and minds ect, ect...

Putin has all but completed his objectives while keeping the country somewhat worth having after the war. He didn't waste his military resources blowing shit up because it made Russian companies money. I have yet to hear about pallets of rubles being dropped for payola to leaders.

Supposedly, he used poorly trained troops. If true than he has given a swath of his army real war experience. The sort of experience that allows armies to gain territory and win the hearts and minds of people who may feel liberated from their homegrown corruption.

At some point an oppressed people realize they've become slaves to their local rulers, yet feel powerless to change their fate. This is a ripe fruit waiting to be plucked by anyone with a bit of leadership skill and decent balls.

I'm afraid America has been roofied by the globalist, fucked repeatedly, and is laying on the bed still passed out with her legs spread.

It isn't a question of, "are we going to be fucked again?" But of, "who and how hard?"

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The problem is most people want to point a finger rather than their thumb when dealing with challenges.
Frat
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NKY
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I have no particular love for Russia in general or Putin in particular; I'm a child of the Cold War and Russia! Russia! Russia! was our enemy from my first breath. Then 1991 happened, and I really couldn't give two fucks about Russia except for that, you know, still active nuclear arsenal.

I also have zero love for the bullshit Europe has become, from their green stupidity, importing foreign invaders that HATE THEIR CULTURE(s), the welfare state, the fact that we've paid for their defense for 75 years while at the same time get lectured for not being as enlightened as they are. They've fucked themselves royally by getting rid of coal and nuclear so they can FEEL better about themselves and export that "dirty energy stuff" to somewhere else; namely, the same Russia Russia Russia they are fighting with now. Seems pretty fucktarded, eh?

You know, CHOKE ON THE RUSSIAN COCK, YOU SELF-RIGHTEOUS ASSHOLES!

Putin is a despicable human being, sure. Russia is NOT our ally, and likely never will be. That doesn't mean they have to be our enemy, either. We're going to need them against the Chinese monster we've helped create. This whole energy fiasco is fucking comical, but OH SO European. Pretentious fucks think that Russia has to follow their end of the bargain but the Euros don't theirs. I actually look forward to them fucking freezing to death.

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We're fucked. There will be no happy ending here; there is no going back to 'normal.'. There are only bad outcomes and worse outcomes. And we don't get to choose those, either.
Evergreen
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Basic goods and services--available. Being free to pursue one's day and life as one sees fit within the means available in the open market space. Being secure in one's self and possessions.

What allows all of that? An open society in which people work for their possessions and learn that theft and abuse of one's fellow citizen is rewarded justly--by fellow citizens.

What is absent? An overbearing, paternal management and its mercenary enforcers.

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Withholding vital resources to Europe will turn the populations against their patrons/patricians. Putin can topple these loons and probably will, since it is clear they are a combination of arrogant, stupid, and apathetic to human suffering. If said toppling ever occurs, the remake will necessarily center around securement of vital goods...which will tend toward rational (hard) decisions about tariffs, taxation, and welfare.
Hargbratch
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Seems odd to be "rootin' for putin".
Should put that on a shirt.
Ib0
Posts: 29
Incept: 2022-02-23

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> You have to wonder if Germans still think it was a wise idea to hitch
> their energy wagon to Russia

Equally valid question: You have to wonder if Germans still think it was a wise
idea to hitch their future to these neocon projects of regime change and
sanctions in Russia?

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