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Jal
Posts: 1007
Incept: 2009-03-25

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[strong]They knew that the vaccines did not work[/strong]
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronaviru....
QUOTING
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-0....
SARS-CoV-2 B.1.617.2 Delta variant replication and immune evasion

Discussion
Here we have combined in vitro experimentation and molecular epidemiology to propose that increased replication fitness and reduced
sensitivity of SARS-CoV-2 B.1.617.2 to neutralising antibodies have
contributed to the recent rapid replacement of B.1.1.7 and other
lineages such as B.1.617.1 by B.1.617.2, despite high vaccination rates
in adults and/or high prevalence of prior infection15. These data are
consistent with modelling analyses that support combination of
immune evasion and higher transmissibility as likely drivers of Delta
in Delhi16.
Maddmaxx
Posts: 234
Incept: 2021-05-31


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@Franco I posted this elsewhere but give it a read. Apparently Washington did essentially that with his troops during the American Revolution. I assume it is historically accurate.

https://www.juliusruechel.com/2021/06/wa....
Tickerguy
Posts: 177003
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@Maddmaxx -- And a number of his troops died too. Of course at the time we did not know how viruses replicate. Was it a LOGICAL thing to do? Probably, because if you SURVIVED you had immunity, and thus if you're going to whack some percentage of your troops you do it before they go into battle when you can replace them, not DURING BATTLE when you can't.

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Bigbuzzle
Posts: 90
Incept: 2020-03-10

The great north woods
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Tickerguy wrote..
I would ABSOLUTELY be prepared NOW to get this thing if you have not had it, and do not KNOW you have had it.

Not guessed, KNOW by antibody titer either shortly after alleged recovery or now, if it was a while ago.

LOTS of people who were PCR+ never actually had Covid-19. If you're one of them and think you're safe, well, you're NOT.


100%

Plan ahead, have a plan, gather resources.

Overnight, I went from riding my bike 17 miles in one hour, to being more or less bedridden with a very high fever, a racing heart, and a blood oxygen level of only 92.

And of course that is when I figured out that my electronic thermometer did not work.

Everyone is going to get this at one point or another.

Vernonb
Posts: 2636
Incept: 2009-06-03

East of Sheol
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@Samiam,

My greatest sympathies. Just hope you don't run into same issues my wife and son did getting out of Romania. Stupid Lufthansa Nazi airline kept reinterpreting the US State department orders. The US Embassy was worthless. I knew more about what was going on then the personnel at the Romanian embassy.

Both were denied boarding twice even they had the appropriate tests. Three times they tested negative and less than 48 hours. They were letting their damned ignorant personnel at the check in counter interpret the law. Freaking morons.

"Shegin space" .... Was the only word they knew. They had all the proper documentation and Lufthansa wanted her to have a diplomatic pass. Total idiocy.

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"Mass intelligence does not mean intelligent masses."
Heartlander
Posts: 726
Incept: 2021-02-25

Kansas
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@Maddmaxx
Quote:
"For people who have based their whole world-model on the fact that there is a well-functioning system, including science, international organizations, medicine, journalism, etc, and this is what makes the world work, the pain must be unbearable."

This is absolutely what makes this all possible. The phrase "normalcy bias" doesn't begin to describe it. Even I, one of the most contrary, ornery, disaffected people I know, have a hard time getting my mind around the reality that THEY MEAN TO KILL US ALL. How on earth, then, can a working couple with three school-age kids and a mortgage, or an elderly person who's vulnerable and dependent on the system, face the reality that we are headed toward mass death? And that it is INTENTIONAL?

The pain is unbearable, all right. So for most, the only way to deal with it is to stay in denial. It's not even conscious. It's just the psyche's basic instinct for self-survival, to protect itself against exploding into a thousand pieces. So they HAVE TO call us cranks and nutcases. Their survival depends on it.
Maddmaxx
Posts: 234
Incept: 2021-05-31


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@Heartlander, if you read the twitter thread, he is not contending it is intentional, but he contends the position of so many, which we here find to be irrational, is based upon the cognitive dissonance of seeing these structures so plainly failing and doubling down on a failed policy and not being able to accept it.

Incidentally, to address other thoughts in this thread, if you've been reading The Automatic Earth and/or Charles Hugh Smith Of Two Minds, for some time the idea of what those at the top of the pyramid will do to preserve the failing structures has been discussed and the answer is they will do all they can to preserve that which has enriched them all these decades. So, yes, that could explain the irrationality as well. For Biden, I'd imagine, his presidency may literally hang in the balance as well as the existence of the Democratic Party. Yes, if we are in a Fourth Turning, as many suggest, I wouldn't be shocked to see one of the two major parties completely dissolve into irrelevance. If this goes really sideways, I believve the Democratic Party may be truly finished.
Franco
Posts: 178
Incept: 2009-10-06

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So, measuring your blood oxygen saturation level (or whatever it is called), is that something that one can do at home? If yes, what device should I buy? And how do you interpret the number? At what point do you say oh ****, I need to get to an ER very soon?
Tickerguy
Posts: 177003
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Yes, meter is cheap (about $20) and if you are normally healthy once you start desaturating you're in trouble as virtually everyone has 300%+ reserve capacity and once that starts its GONE.

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Susanlauren
Posts: 611
Incept: 2021-05-01

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@Franco
Google oxygen saturation monitors. Look at best reviews for options, pros and cons. A reading of 97 to 100 percent is normal. A reading of 92 to 95 percent is yellow caution zone (getting into trouble). If you are under 90 percent oxygen saturation, it is emergency room time. The problem with COVID is that severe respiratory distress and a life threatening drop in oxygen saturation levels can happen rapidly and precipitously. Hypoxia and acute respiratory failure are nothing to play around with. And for goodness sake, if you are going to buy an oxygen saturation monitor, I hope you have the vitamins, supplements and medications recommended by FLCCC. It is far better to start early aggressive treatment as compared to waiting for one to become seriously ill. The recommended treatments do not work as well for later stage COVID illness.
Tickerguy
Posts: 177003
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Amazon has a crap-ton of them listed, and CVS and Walgreens also sell them. From what I can tell other than a "newer screen" in some of them they're all identical to the ones used on my parent's fingers when in hospice. This name, that name, same display, exact same format, all made by the lowest bidder in CHINA!

With that said there isn't much to them. If your nails are diseased they may read "off" so do get a baseline number when you're NOT sick to compare against, and no, they don't work through nail polish.

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4lakes
Posts: 3
Incept: 2021-09-06

Canada
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@Tickerguy - Relative indoor humidity. I was always under the impression that low indoor RH (<40%) facilitates respiratory infection.

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-transm....

Is that wrong?
Tickerguy
Posts: 177003
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Well, maybe.

I think the bigger issue is that in the summer you have high UV which is almost-instantly sterilizing outdoors and A/C units condense a HUGE amount of water vapor (on which virons ride) out of the air and dispose of it down the drain or on the ground where it hurts nobody.

In the winter you have neither, plus more people inside and if anything you're adding humidity to the air on purpose.

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Heartlander
Posts: 726
Incept: 2021-02-25

Kansas
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Karl,

You have become my most trusted go-to on all things Covid, but I think you might be wrong on humidity. What I've read is that the virus thrives in DRY air, which indoor spaces tend to have. This is one reason respiratory viruses spread in the wintertime. And one of the reasons the American SOUTH gets hit harder by Covid in the summer than the northern states do is precisely the fact that people are working and sleeping in air-conditioned (dry) interiors.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/article....

This is just one article, but typical of many that I read last year. I remember everyone looking forward to seeing a drop in illness as the weather got warmer and more humid. And that indeed happened, as I recall. But later in the summer, as people in the South cranked up the air-conditioning, and spent more of their time indoors escaping the heat than outdoors -- if they had the option (I lived in subtropical Houston for many years, I know whereof I speak) -- the cases revved back up again.

At least, that's the way I remember it.
Tickerguy
Posts: 177003
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Dry based on HOW matters.

A/C removes the virus. If dry due to heating air it doesn't.

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Jules
Posts: 293
Incept: 2009-04-18

Pickled in the brine of futility
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@Rickylc - I was still positive about 6.5 months past coof...
...which brings me to a question for all the med people here that I've been pondering:

I believe antibodies fade away over time after an infection once they're no longer needed. Would being re-exposed cause antibodies to flare back up to testable levels? Anyone know?

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"We must overcome the fear; we must stare it down and power through it. We have no choice." - K. Denninger 4/3/20

"This is madness." - @Susanlauren 5/18/21
"You just eat it. It does not taste good. Whatever. Just eat it." - @Ann_Barnhardt
Tickerguy
Posts: 177003
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Probably.

If you obtained B-cell induction then recall is quite rapid. Normally there will be some antibodies in circulation a long time after infection, even decades, but they may be at very low levels. Provided B-cell induction occurred, however, on challenge response should be quite rapid.

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Jules
Posts: 293
Incept: 2009-04-18

Pickled in the brine of futility
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Thank you, Karl. That's rather what I thought, but needed confirmation.
I'm torn between my curiosity to know how fast antibodies increase/wane vs too cheap to pay for frequent tests.

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"We must overcome the fear; we must stare it down and power through it. We have no choice." - K. Denninger 4/3/20

"This is madness." - @Susanlauren 5/18/21
"You just eat it. It does not taste good. Whatever. Just eat it." - @Ann_Barnhardt
Tickerguy
Posts: 177003
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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If you have them the presumption, based on previous work with SARS (the original), you're fine. That work found that more than a decade later very strong response sufficient to prevent serious harm still existed in those who got it and recovered.

That's the best we have for a close relative to Sars-Cov2 in the same family.

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Jules
Posts: 293
Incept: 2009-04-18

Pickled in the brine of futility
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Oh, yes, I know I'm fine. I'd have no qualms about going into that hospital ICU with you to sit with coof patients.
This is more of an interest in how this all works. You know, that Psalm about "for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works". Never spent a lot of time thinking medical thoughts until this crap started. Now I'm hooked.

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"We must overcome the fear; we must stare it down and power through it. We have no choice." - K. Denninger 4/3/20

"This is madness." - @Susanlauren 5/18/21
"You just eat it. It does not taste good. Whatever. Just eat it." - @Ann_Barnhardt
Kareninca
Posts: 389
Incept: 2011-08-23

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This was posted today by the internal medicine doctor who posts on naked capitalism. It is in response to a NYT editorial about how great the vaccines are: (" In reality, the risks of getting any version of the virus remain small for the vaccinated, and the risks of getting badly sick remain minuscule. "One in 5,000: The real chances of a breakthrough infection.")

"IM Doc
September 7, 2021 at 9:26 am
There are less than 25000 in the total area where I live. By their calculus, that would mean that all the physicians in our area would have seen about 5 breakthroughs in total since Delta arrived.

Well I worked this whole weekend.

11 on sat
9 on Sunday
12 yesterday

I had 54 total for the week last week. Things may be slowing down because I had 61 the week before. There are days with more than 10 repeatedly. And as time has progressed, these breakthroughs are not just head colds yet another lie. Serious lung changes and other covid issues are becoming increasingly common among them.

And the thing is everyone knows it. This has been in the newspaper here repeatedly. These pundits and the doctors supporting them are doing absolutely grave damage to the credibility of the media and medicine. This may be generational in its impact.

I just cannot believe what I am seeing happen.

Hey NYT WSJ and all others is the Pfizer and big Pharma advertising cash really worth your credibility? You are looking more like prostitutes every day. Average people are increasingly noticing it and tuning you out. Just look at the cratering numbers for CNN and MSNBC. This country desperately needs an independent media but instead we have you."
Abdisho
Posts: 2
Incept: 2021-09-07

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Long-time reader on the finance side, but only stumbled on this side of the Ticker recently. I am in New Zealand, under lockdown, everyone masked up, even if they are driving their car alone. And this is because of a community outbreak with a total of 855 cases, and one death - a 90 year old with co-morbidities. We are told this is the deadly delta.
Apparently the first case came across from New South Wales, which is being presented in our local media as a real disaster. I checked their latest stats, and there have been 30,456 cases (presumably all delta), and 139 deaths.
Granted there are people in intensive care here and in Oz, so the deaths could rise, but it's not exactly the Black Death is it? The NZ government is trapped by its own hype, and doesn't seem to have any plan for re-opening the border, apart from vax vax vax. I don't think it's going to end well.
Keep up the good work Karl. You are a much-needed voice of sanity.
Mjc1960
Posts: 109
Incept: 2015-02-28

chicago, il
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@Bigbuzzle
Things I think I have learned, but not medical advice.
Having a fever of at least 102F activates your immune system by 10X
Suppressing a normal fever probably inhibits recovery
103F and above is call your doctor range.
The anti clotting suppression of aspirin lasts for weeks.
I take one 325mg aspirin a week.
Ibruprofen constricts blood vessels, not what you want,
Tylenol can inhibit glutathione production, this is an important anti-oxidant in your cells.
NAC, which is being pulled from the market, is a supplement that helps cells regenerate glutathione.
Neighbor who had COVID last year said taking NAC seemed to help a lot.
May be had to find now, it was cheap.


Mjc1960
Posts: 109
Incept: 2015-02-28

chicago, il
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@Frat
Your bull**** detector is working fine.
I talked with my sister who works in the lab at a hospital in Michigan.
10 - 15% of the hospitalized with COVID are vaccinated.
I talked with my daughter and she says 10% of the of the COVID hospitalized are vaccinated.
But, they are generally old and co-morbid.
I think mom and daughter where just pushing the vax on me.
Mea Culpa
Egallred
Posts: 28
Incept: 2020-08-27

PNW
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@Jules if you want to learn more about immunology I would recommend getting a copy of How the Immune System Works by Lauren Sompayrac. It truly is amazing how our bodies work.

I have no connection with the author. The book was recommended to me some time ago. I actually have a couple of different editions of the book as new discoveries in immunology are constantly being made.
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