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2021-07-21 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Politics , 464 references Ignore this thread
And?
[Comments enabled]

Oh man, what a terrible thing...

A New Mexico state senator said he was denied receiving Holy Communion at his Catholic church due to his support for a pro-abortion bill. 

"I was denied communion last night by the Catholic bishop here in Las Cruces and based on my political office. My new parish priest has indicated he will do the same after the last was run off. Please pray for church authorities as Catholicism transitions under Pope Francis," Las Cruces state Sen. Joe Cervantes tweeted on Saturday. 

Hint to the peanut gallery: You don't make the rules for a religious organization, nor its sacraments.

The rules just are.  You either subscribe to them or not.  Said rules may include strictures on your conduct, both public and private.

You do not have to agree but no matter who you are you have no right, no authority and no capacity to mandate that a given religious path follow your expectations and demands.

Religions are not democracies.  You choose what you follow based on its strictures aligning with your personal beliefs, not the other way around.  If you disagree in a significant manner, to the point that the "rules" make compliance impossible in your public or private life then go find a different one.

That's how it works and that's the beginning and end of it.

Yes, Biden and Harris should also be denied Communion.

Go find a different faith if you cannot publicly live to the constraints of the one you currently attend.

Go to responses (registration required to post)
 

 
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Flappingeagle
Posts: 4149
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I am a Protestant and I agree with the Bishop.

Do not go around proclaiming to be a member of any faith and then publicly do just the opposite. The 10 Commandments are actually five pairs of Commandments. The first pair are:

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me. which pairs with You shall not murder..

So here we have a guy who wants to break the very first pair and skate for free.

I give a solid "Well Done" to the Bishop and local Priest.

Flap


----------
Here are my predictions for everyone to see:
S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
No sign that housing, equities, or farmland are in a bubble- Yellen 11/14/13
Trying to leave the Rat Race to the rats...
Redsox2824
Posts: 3
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Massachusetts
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Please pray for church authorities as Catholicism transitions under Pope Francis. Should the US election be conclusively proven to have been criminally stolen in favor of Biden, he would be 1000 times more of a legitimate president than Francis is pope. This is not the place to go into why that is, but every action he has taken since his ascension to power has shown that he is hell-bent on selling the Church to those who run the world. This bishop has a good chance of being sacked.
Tickerguy
Posts: 175365
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A True American Patriot!
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@Redsox2824 - No.

I do not pray for those who should be damned. I never have and never will.

Yes, I'm an imperfect judge of that. We all are. So what? When I offer a prayer, which is not often, that energy is most-certainly not expended toward those who, in my view, deserve the express elevator ride downward.

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I don't give a flying **** if you're offended.

Superdude
Posts: 439
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I have to disagree with the Catholic Church on this.

This is an organization that extracts 10 percent from their membership. Hordes the money in the Vatican while saying they "need the money to save the children and proclaim the word of the Lord." In turn they do some rinky dink missions to help a few people to show face. They have a ton of money that meant for the poor and could do real change but they choose not to do so. They also like to pontificate to country leaders and tell them what to do. Yet, they do the exact opposite every time! I haven't even talked about the pedos in their ranks.

So I quote King James Bible: John 8:7
When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.

The Church is in no position to throw stones.



Frat
Posts: 6254
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NKY
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Sorry, I can't agree with you on that Superdude. I can go on for hours about my disagreements with the Catholic church, Superdude, and specifically with this pope. That doesn't mean the bishop and church in this instance aren't spot-on. I'm glad SOMEONE took a principled stand on a topic for which there should be no debate in the church. It has ALWAYS stood against abortion in its basic tenets. While your personal view may differ, seeking out public office and then throwing that in the face of their most basic doctrine? ****, he's lucky he's not excommunicated. Had we a pope that wasn't a globalist South American socialist, it might be on the table.

It's weird enough to have two popes. I am really starting to wonder exactly how (read: WHO) this one got into place.

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We're ****ed. Where's Henry Bowman Kyle Rittenhouse when you need him?
Loonster
Posts: 419
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This happened in my area too. Priest refused to give communion to a lesbian judge.

https://www.woodtv.com/news/grand-rapids....
Workerbee
Posts: 3185
Incept: 2009-03-18

*shall NOT be infringed*
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Organized religion is part of the problem.

The remnant is not.

Churches won't fix ****. They just break things with hypocrisy.

Spiritual people standing on basic principles collectively are where God moves and breaths, not in dying institutions.

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"****'em ALL! I'm rooting for the virus now"
~Obseedian
"Keep pushing ****ers, you'll find the trip wire eventually"
~ Quik49
Vernonb
Posts: 2602
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East of Sheol
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Next these demoncrap dumbasses will pass laws making all communist saints and attempt to tie the hands of the Christian God to force their way into the Heaven most have actively ridiculed.

Hedonistic LGBTQSXYZ sex orgies and daily child sacrifices are to be performed as often as possible to prove faithfulness and devotion.

At the same time legislation will be passed forcing all non-demoncraps to be forced straight to Hell.
/Sarc off


The whining infantile delusions of these people are truly off the meter. The delusional belief of their own bull**** and self aggrandizement is appalling in believing the world must change for them. This has been the norm for the alphabet people and their supporters for a while.

It is the core root of true narcissists and totalitarians. Having both traits creates true monsters.

To the peanut gallery...the gawd ( not God) you pretend to serve doesn't give a wet crap about your puny mortal opinions.

Welcome to the coming State Church.... Something the founding fathers wisely avoided due to the potential for abuse and past abuses.

Indoctrination is now complete.





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"Mass intelligence does not mean intelligent masses."
Ndp
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Incept: 2021-04-21

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Superdude. You misunderstand the purpose of denying communion. Denying communion is not intended as a punishment or a passing of judgement. It is an act of mercy. When a Catholic receives communion they are literally receiving the body of Christ. To do so unworthily places one's soul at great risk. In essence it compounds and confirms whatever sins you have already committed, akin to inviting Jesus into your house right after you trashed the place in a drunken, drug-fueled orgy.

The church's job is to help you reach salvation. Politicians and many others often commit grave sins publically, making the church aware of their actions. When this happens, the priest or bishop's job is to privately ensure that the person is aware that they have gravely sinned. Once they are aware, they should encourage the person to repent of their actions and seek forgiveness. If the person refuses to acknowledge their sin and repent, it is the priest of bishop's duty to inform them that they will be denied communion. This is done in private to prevent additional sin and encourage repentance. Ideally, the person in question simply wouldn't present himself for communion in these circumstances. Approaching the alter to receive communion is a publicity stunt at that point, yet another sin.

The church is far from perfect. Priests, bishops, cardinals and the pope have long lists of their own sins to atone for. That does not relieve them of their duty to help others on their path. Unfortunately, most of them lack the balls to actually do their job or dont really believe its their job to begin with. Thats an entirely different subject.
Goldguy
Posts: 86
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Born and raised catholic, I stopped going to church in late 1969, when the church changed everything, I suppose they changed to keep up with the liberal times. Since then, the church has just gone downhill...

Two popes? Really? I have to laugh. One of the first things they teach you is that each pope will serve out his election till the end of his life...

If you have a headache, take an aspirin, if you have a spiritual headache, go to church....
Kicknon
Posts: 32
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Cumberland River South KY
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What is a reprobate mind? What is an antichrist?
Redjack
Posts: 609
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Iowa
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I am a Lutheran, and not Catholic. My synod also practices closed communion (basically if you don't like what we preach, believe and stand we will not offer you sacraments). Half my family is Catholic, so when visiting them we don't go up just as they don't when visiting me.

However, there are a lot of people who feel that the Church needs to support them no matter what they actually believe. I am on the board and church, and we have people come up and DEMAND we change the teaching on X because of Y. Often because they got caught in an affair and don't like feeling guilty.

That isn't how it works.

They then get rather angry and occasionally violent. Never mind they could go down the street to the Anglican or ELCA church and do anything they want, they want to tell us what to believe to salve their guilty conscience.

It is like walking into a basketball game with a baseball bat and demanding the rules be changed so you can hit the basketball.
Wifi
Posts: 6488
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The Land That Was
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@Workerbee, completely agree,

I am not religious, at all. Religion is another distraction, to control mankind.

Quote:
Spiritual people standing on basic principles collectively are where God moves and breaths


Agree with this statement, whole heartedly.

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"Freedom cannot end where fear begins."
Robby Dinero
Heartlander
Posts: 437
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Kansas
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@Redjack
Quote:
Never mind they could go down the street to the Anglican or ELCA church and do anything they want, they want to tell us what to believe to salve their guilty conscience.


BINGO.

The most overlooked driver of bizarre human behavior is repressed guilt.
Drifter
Posts: 801
Incept: 2016-02-11

Pacific Northwest
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This dude is probably an athiest: flowers, bakeries, churches, wtfever-- it was a nothing short of an attack on his ideological enemies.

The left doesn't care about church rules, as long as they make the rules. If the church won't submit, it will be destroyed.

The left has no guilty conscience: they have an unquenchable desire for power.

Cbucket
Posts: 60
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In other news ...
"Adam demands re-entry to Garden of Eden. Angel with flaming sword says otherwise"
Snowmizuh
Posts: 1946
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Alabama
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Recent convert to Orthodoxy (former Protestant) here.

@NDP is right on above. This is an act of mercy by the Bishop. Taking communion in a state of unrepentant sin is dangerous. The holiness of God is a consuming fire.

I applaud this Bishop. May God protect him and his diocese.
Gavilan
Posts: 82
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land of mañana
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Here in New Mexico, we have the urban vs rural problem in a big way. And it is getting worse as people flee the mess they made of Cali and land in the urban parts here. The rural folks have always tended to be Catholic since we were obtained from Mexico. He is part of the urban liberal crowd ruling the state. This last legislative session, they rammed through a repeal of any abortion rules whatsoever. And expected no pushback.
Auldsnu
Posts: 37
Incept: 2021-04-21

Portland
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Karl, what a website this is! I'll admit to being fascinated and even addicted. That said, concerning everything having to do with Forever, especially my Forever, I am trying to do both the safest thing, and the things that will bring the most blessings and graces down on my head. At my age it would be wildly imprudent to do anything else. Besides, as a super long term investment strategy how can it be beat?.

As for the damned and the damnable my inclination more and more is to think, "You poor bastard, what were you thinking?" and to pray more and more that the Lord will have mercy on us all, especially me. Whatever else one may think of it, that surely is the safer course. In any case, since I cannot go to God as an innocent I, at least, am better off crying for mercy for myself and for all.


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"Whom the gods would destroy they first make mad"
"Luxury is more ruthless than war."
Whitehat
Posts: 5470
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Elsewhere
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Holy ****ing ****balls! Has someone been reading my comments over the years???

Karl's too, no doubt.

sign of Armageddon?

or maybe things got pushed too far and too long especially with this latest crap that people, even priests in a particular religion, simply do not give a **** anymore.

i vote for the later and it is gonna be fun to watch!

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smiley

"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven," Satan's monologue in the first book of John Milton's Paradise Lost
Kareninca
Posts: 347
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Superdude: "This is an organization (the Roman Catholic Church) that extracts 10 percent from their membership."

No, it doesn't. Maybe it would like to, but the reality is totally different. About fifteen years ago I looked into this, since I was wondering how much I would be in for if I started to attend some church. At that time I was finding that the typical Roman Catholic family in the U.S. was giving about $700 per year to their church. A mainline Protestant family was giving about $1,200, and an evangelical family about $2,000. About 5 percent of Americans tithed then, and less than half that percentage of Roman Catholics. I am having a really hard time finding comparable statistics now, but I presume the ratios are about the same. I think a lot of Roman Catholics feel their church already has plenty of money. Our household gives to a Roman Catholic organization but we certainly don't tithe to it!

I attend a small Protestant denomination that does not have a paid clergy (we feel that we have no laity); our costs are extremely low. In fact we have no paid employees. Our church in Silicon Valley - a good sized building and grounds - has an annual budget of $54,000. I will be donating about $600 this year to the church itself and that is just fine (I also donate to other things of course in part to make up for this measly church-giving).

Flappingeagle
Posts: 4149
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Quote:
simply do not give a **** anymore.


Let me flip that around. Instead of "not giving a ****" perhaps the Bishop and Priest have done what we all need to do. Stop worrying and trust in the Lord and His Commandments.

Just let go of the anchors that are holding you down and enjoy your relationship with the Lord.

Quote:
"Then he isn't safe?" said Lucy.

"Safe?" said Mr. Beaver; "don't you hear what Mrs. Beaver tells you? Who said anything about safe? 'Course he isn't safe. But he's good. He's the King, I tell you."


Flap

----------
Here are my predictions for everyone to see:
S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
No sign that housing, equities, or farmland are in a bubble- Yellen 11/14/13
Trying to leave the Rat Race to the rats...
Heartlander
Posts: 437
Incept: 2021-02-25

Kansas
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The Catholic Church does not forcibly take money from anyone (exception is the bizarre case of Germany, where all the churches -- Catholic, Lutheran, whatever --
have a sick tax arrangement with the government). It is the Lord who commands tithing, dating back to the law of Moses, but it's a matter between each person and God; the Church cannot coerce, but only encourage.

I don't know about other dioceses, but in my own, the bishop says tithing can include more than just contributions to the local parish and diocese. So in my own personal accounting, I count as part of "tithing" my contributions to all kinds of things I see as part of building God's kingdom, from Lila Rose's Live Action organization and my local crisis pregnancy center, to disaster relief and sponsoring children in developing countries.
Phils
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st pete FL
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Any chance the Vatican can send over a team to deal with the "Money Changers" in DC?
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