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2021-06-09 08:55 by Karl Denninger
in Personal Health , 331 references Ignore this thread
Don't Change What You Eat
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This is crazyland, but it's what we've turned into.

The US Food and Drug Administration has approved an injectable diabetes drug for long-term weight control.

"This under-the-skin injection is the first approved drug for chronic weight management in adults with general obesity or overweight since 2014," the FDA said in a statement Friday.

Studies have shown the once-a-week injection, called semaglutide, can help people lose up to 12% of their body weight over about a year and a half.

You've probably seen the ads on TV for Trulicity, which is basically the same drug.  It's originally for Type II diabetes, and acts to increase insulin secretion.  IMHO this was never a proper approach to begin with because if you're Type II you make insulin, but your cells are resistant to it, so the insulin you make doesn't promote the proper use of glucose in the blood; ergo, your blood sugar is too high.

Therefore the premise of the drug is basically "well, we have a fire which is comprised of the combustion of gasoline, it's not burning as it should, so throw more gas on it" without doing anything about the inhibition of the combustion process itself.  It also inhibits the liver's metabolic processes that make and store glycogen from glucose, which is the only organ in the body that can take up, store glucose and then release it back into the blood (your muscles can store glycogen but cannot release it back into the bloodstream because there is an enzyme required to do that which is not in the muscles, but is in the liver.)

Yeah, you'll get more fire this way.  But whatever caused the fire to not burn properly, if it's a progressive thing, will continue to progress and get worse.  In other words over time the drug will stop working unless you use more of it, and as you use more of it you eventually run into a toxicity limit as with any drug.

There is a further potential problem with this drug -- it was found to cause dose and duration-dependent thyroid tumors in rodents.  Whether this occurs in humans is not known.  In fact this warning is prominently on the page for the drug before you can read the rest of it.  I presume that's a "Black Box" warning on the actual package, but have not seen it myself to verify.  I don't know about you but "possibly causes cancer" isn't something I choose to do when I have non-drug alternatives -- and there are alternatives.

It doesn't end with that either; there are also reports of kidney damage (renal failure) and other issues as well.

But the studies show that it can stunt appetite, so.....

It's crucial to help patients living with obesity understand that "it's not their fault, and that it's not just about eating less and moving more," he said. "There's a medical adaptation that they need to understand like any other serious disease."

Uh huh.

How about "stop eating carbs?"

I know, you need your pizza and pasta.  I get it.  The fries are too tempting.  You can't live without them, or that pie.

The FDA approved the drug, as an addition to diet and exercise, based on phase 3 data showing Wegovy helped one-third of patients lose more than 20% of their body weight over the 68-week trial period. Patients without type 2 diabetes lost 17% to 18% of their weight on average.

That's a good number over a year and change but at what price?

Oh, let's talk about money for a minute... they haven't put it forward yet, but Forbes has a guess.

Novo Nordisk hasn’t revealed Wegovy’s list price, but hinted that it will be similar to the price of its drug Saxenda, a weight loss treatment that retails at $1,300 per month without insurance. Saxenda is said to help patients lose 5% of their body weight on average. In studies released by Novo Nordisk, participants taking Wegovy had an average weight loss of 15% of their body weight.

$1,300 a month or $15,600 a year "without insurance", which means someone's going to pay the $15,000 and it will either be you or it will be shoved off on other people through their premiums too.  And Medicare, by the way, is barred by statute from covering weight loss medications and most Medicaid state programs refuse to cover these drugs as well.

Forbes, of course, being a mouthpiece for big pharma, thinks this should be covered.

Again, so you can eat your pasta.

But -- what happens if (and likely when) resistance builds exactly as it does for insulin?  Have you basically dosed yourself, blown a huge amount of money and risked cancer and kidney failure for nothing?  Yo-yo weight gain and loss is arguably much worse than being fat and staying that way; it certainly tends to screw with your metabolism, and if you don't change what you eat then if resistance develops you'll wind up putting it all back on in a few years.

If you instead change what you eat then you'll wake up in the morning and not be hungry, as I do.  I lost more than 20% of my body mass in eight months, and while exercise was certainly part of it I have the data and the computation is not all that tough.  The vast majority of the weight loss was from what I decided to eat, not the exercise -- and it's a lifestyle I've maintained.

That was 2011, it's 10 years later, I did not put the weight back on and I also took no risk of thyroid cancer, kidney failure or both as side effects doing it because I used no drugs in the process, nor do I use any prescription drugs today.  Zero.

Oh, and I also didn't spend $15,000 a year either.

We live in a "push-button" world but popping a pill didn't work this time; no, it's a self-injecting stabber you use.  That sounds awesome, doesn't it?  Jab yourself weekly?

It'll be interesting to see how this works out, but I foresee problems and failure down the road.

Just stop eating the carbs folks.  Seriously -- that's all you have to do and you'll have a very, very serious side effect.  Never mind that at that price your pizza and pasta just got damnably expensive.  $1,300 a month so you can eat spaghetti?

If you stop that crap your pants will fall off.

Mine did twice and I had to re-purchase my entire wardrobe going from an XL shirt to a Medium and a 34/36 pant to a 30.

Eight months to lose it folks and yes, over the next ten years the weight stayed off and I still wake up and typically don't have a desire to eat until somewhere around noon.  Incidentally when you get to an appropriate weight you'll stop losing weight too even though in terms of what you eat you've changed nothing.  Your body knows how to regulate itself with a precision you can never replicate through conscious thought and action, nor drugs -- you just have to stop destroying those metabolic mechanisms.

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Redjack
Posts: 566
Incept: 2018-01-29

Iowa
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I love pasta.

I love carbs.

So I haven't cut them completely out.

But they are BAD for me, and they become a treat. For instance, once a month I make some homemade spaghetti (home made red sauce, home made sausage, not set up for noodles yet).

The other night, the kids wanted some and I didn't have enough time to cook up a batch of sauce, and bought it instead. It tasted like sugar. No flavor, all sugar. On top of the noodles which were carb enough.

Eating badly is a choice. A habit. An addiction. Stopping it takes will power. What is shocking to me is couch sitters blaming a "disease" for bad choices. I am overweight because I enjoy food. I work out to keep it under control, and it is mostly working (suspect my genetics lead me to be a big larger than some). But it is ultimately my fault.

Taking a jab to loose weight is like the guy I knew who would do meth to do the same. Yeah it works, but at what cost?
Bodhi
Posts: 3784
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I wish I could say I'm surprised at this new method of keeping people fat and coming back for more drugs until they drop dead of one of the myriad of other diseases that obesity causes.

Nutrition isn't even in the MIC's vocabulary. It's certainly not a subject that's taught in medical school. Doctors only seem to be taught that pharmaceuticals are the answer to every medical problem.

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Nobody can be saved from anything, unless they save themselves.
It is hopeless doing things for people, it is often very dangerous
indeed to do things at all, and the only thing worth doing for
the race is to increase its stock of ideas. ~T.H. White
Purplefang
Posts: 330
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Oklahoma
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Federal Death Administration

"12% over a year and a half", so at 240 lbs you might lose 29 lbs. Does this nonsense come with a guarantee or your money back. I have a better plan. Pay me $300 a month and I'll let you mow my yard at both houses. I'll provide the mower and the gas. I would guarantee you will lose weight.
Frat
Posts: 5737
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NKY
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Quote:
It's crucial to help patients living with obesity understand that "it's not their fault, and that it's not just about eating less and moving more," he said.


THE **** IT AIN'T!

Listen, sure, things like what you actually eat make a substantial difference (I think Karl's anti-Carb Crusade has shown that), but at base it really IS about consuming less calories and/or burning more than you consume. Seriously, that's step 1. Get off your ass more and dump less down your ****ing throat.

But, as Bodhi alludes to above, that is less likely to create customers for life. All this bull**** from the last year - and my own personal ephiany/realization (with obvious credit to the TF) that the Medical Industrial Complex most certainly is trying to kill me long-term, while extracting as much of my income prior to doing so - is almost enough to get me off my ass and start running again. My weight isn't terrible - 160#'s for 5'7 - but another 10 pounds gone and I would actually be on the healthy side of the spectrum. Sigh, maybe it's time, and doctors trying to bilk then kill me might just be the ****ing spark I needed.

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We're ****ed. Where's Henry Bowman Kyle Rittenhouse when you need him?
Pete01234
Posts: 18
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somewhere
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I'd like to thank you for your writing in regards to this Karl. I've been full keto for this entire year, and plan to keep it up as it's not hard and don't feel like I'm dieting. While I'm not exercising at all, I have dropped 15 pounds. I eat pretty much as much as I want, as long as it's not carbs. Have found tons of interesting keto recipes that get very close to approximating the dishes with carbs. Keep up the good fight.
Drifter
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Pacific Northwest
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I'm mid 50's. Mostly keto since '16. I went from a 36/37 waist to 32. Stopped doing BJJ/MMA and I'm a stable 33 waist now. I eat until I'm full. Never hungry before 10AM. Usually never have a meal until 2. I can go 18 hours between meals w/o thinking about it.

If I can do it, anybody can. Just control you ****ing impulses.
Jpg
Posts: 498
Incept: 2009-03-23

MI
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I'm occasionally "amused" at a youtube video ad that pops up now and again for some sort of T2 Diabetes medicine featuring a lard-ass actor and his lard-ass wife (not sure if it's the real-life wife or TV-show wife) from some TV show (King of Queens?) on "Living with Type II Diabetes".

The "Comments" feature is, of course, disabled.

Further, I myself am down about 25% over a period of a couple of years, with only moderate exercise and moderate hunger.

Reason: More details.
Nomullet
Posts: 7799
Incept: 2007-11-11

SW
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I'm 50 this year last August I started having chest pains and in Sept. went on low carb, I've lost 25# since then. Luckily EKG was negative. I messed with low carb 10 years ago but it was a nuisance having kids eating regular food.

The induction was brutal I could hardly get out of bed for a month but I lost 15# almost immediately, most likely water/hypertensive weight due to high blood sugar.

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A bad day of programming is better than a good day of management.
Smacktle
Posts: 4870
Incept: 2009-01-20

Texas
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I have lost 13% of my weight over 3 months by changing my diet. Spending about $350 a month. I'm using food from a place called optavia.com This is the 2nd time I've tried this, but this time I am more committed to making the transitions I need. Last time I lost 27 Lbs and fell back into my old ways and gained almost all of it back.

IMO, you not only have to limit carbs, but you have to limit your sugar intake. Like me, a lot of you should eliminate it completely if you want to keep the weight off and your heart healthy. I know that's hard for some of you borderline alcoholics around here. DON'T DRINK YOUR CALORIES! SODA, ALCOHOL, GATORADE, MILKSHAKES, ETC...

To lose the weight, you have to make a fundamental change in the way you eat. Period. End of story.

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It's always something. Forever till you die.
Bodhi
Posts: 3784
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Quote:
IMO, you not only have to limit carbs, but you have to limit your sugar intake.


Sugar IS a carb. So the label on carbonated drinks, fruit juices, beer, etc includes all the types of sugar (sucrose, fructose, lactose, etc) in the ingredients. Fructose is probably the worst form of sugar as it is metabolized differently by the body, rapidly being stored as fat.

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Nobody can be saved from anything, unless they save themselves.
It is hopeless doing things for people, it is often very dangerous
indeed to do things at all, and the only thing worth doing for
the race is to increase its stock of ideas. ~T.H. White
Indianarube
Posts: 38
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@Tickerguy Karl, you have written several (at least 6) articles on LCHFMP lifestyle. I have been reading MT for ten or twelve years. For those who are more recent readers, could you make a compendium of them and put a link in the sidebar, along with the other "Must Read" list? Please? This is positive life altering information, that is simple, but perhaps not easy. Overcoming a chemical dependence is usually never easy. I am a firm believer that sugar (fast carbs) is a substance that can cause physical dependence, and addiction, much like any other substance that does, be it opiates, alcohol, diazipines, or nicotine to name a few.
Rickylc
Posts: 1537
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Lansing Michigan
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Optiva isn't carb heavy? My wife did that for a while and i remember looking at some of the nutrition info and it seemed pretty steep in carbs.

did a quick check and it appears to be about 15g carb/100 calorie serving, on everything.
Bluebird
Posts: 2152
Incept: 2008-05-02

SW Ohio
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Smacktle said "To lose the weight, you have to make a fundamental change in the way you eat."

Exactly. Yet, I have people tell me they won't stop eating what they like (pizza, cereal, candy, pasta, fast food, bread, chips, sugar drinks, etc.)
Eleua
Posts: 18445
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A True American Patriot!
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I'm 6'-1', 176#.

Shouldn't the shot be mandatory for me to go to a grocery store, cruise, or hold a job so the 5'-2" 275# blue haired, Subaru Outback driving, woke rage mob SJW sucking down a 20oz Starbutts mocha frappechino with extra whip and 3 pumps can be safe?

I mean...if we are going to be consistent in our "thinking" about public health...

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Once you see what the problem is, you can't unsee it.
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Drifter
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Pacific Northwest
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Not to get pedantic, but sugar is a carb. I give myself about 15grams/day-- red wine.

Basically, don't eat anything white. Chose your fats wisely. I also advocate avoiding most restaurant food.
Comrader
Posts: 476
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pa
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I am 69 years old next month and have been mostly low carb since the 1970's. Karl started me running with the "couch to 5k" about 5 years ago and I am currently running a 5k or longer 3 days a week. I never eat breakfast and sometimes forget to eat lunch. I have recently started the carnivore diet and find that it works better for me. I feel like I have more energy from the time that I get up till I go to bed. I think that I sleep better. I did it before for 6 months with the same results.
Peterm99
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Yep, just one more example of the fairly ubiquitous medical practice of "treat/manage the symptom, not the root cause, and you'll have a permanent income stream". This is simply the Pharma part of the cartel creating an income stream that is certain to expand in the future. This is analogous to the so-called "gateway drug" that all the gov't anti-drug campaigns continually warn people about: get started with this, and after some time you also need medication/treatment for liver and kidney (and who knows what else) disease.

Illicit drug dealers/pushers are said to try to get permanent customers by giving out free drugs in the beginning in order to get people addicted and thereby create a permanent income stream. The only difference I see is that the dope dealers have the "courtesy" to provide the initial hits for free, while with this "medicine", the pharma company doesn't.

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". . . the Constitution has died, the economy welters in irreversible decline, we have perpetual war, all power lies in the hands of the executive, the police are supreme, and a surveillance beyond Orwells imaginings falls into place." - Fred Reed
Holmesrealestate
Posts: 1
Incept: 2021-05-03

New Paltz NY
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What a bonanza for the health/sick care industry!

Insulin is highly inflamatory and raising it will surely create other knock on effects.

Do they want more? How about fatty liver disease and the resulting cirrhosis and the necessary transplant! Billing opportunity on a grand scale. And after the transplant you get to consume thousands of dollars a year on anti rejection medicines.

What a great business model.

Along with, or instead of reducing the carbs, how about not eating for 18 hours a day... How about getting rid of HFCS in all of the crap consumed in fast/ processed foods. I have a relative that's 100+ pounds over weight. Loves Dunkin' dognuts and their large sugary ice coffees... 1000 calories a pop. Disgusting.
Edwardteach
Posts: 52
Incept: 2021-05-01

Here be dragons
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I got two words for ya: Fen-phen
(or is that one word?)
Anyone remember that one?

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Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin command here.
Seektruth
Posts: 1086
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I have yet another real world example. A friend of mine was type 2 diabetic, way overweight, taking all manner of prescription drugs. In February he went to a keto diet. He's down over 45lbs, blood pressure back to normal, blood sugar back to normal. He's still on *some* of the meds but considering his dosing was maxed out on pretty much all of them before and now he's off some and on much reduced doses of others, I'd expect he'll be off everything before long. It's amazing...well not really, when you don't live in fantasyland.

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Enjoy your stay in Clown World!
Ndp
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When I was about 21 years old, no longer in high school athletics, drinking lots of beer, and eating tons of crap food, I managed to load about 210 pounds on my 5'10" frame. I was well on my way to a life of looking like a giant slob and developing a host of health issues as well.

I cut down on the crap, but didn't eliminate it entirely. I'm no saint about it. I still enjoy pizza and beer. But I know I can't have that stuff every day. I work out, which means actually breathing hard, elevating my heart rate and making myself uncomfortable. Maybe I wouldn't have to exercise as hard if I was a little better on the diet front. Regardless I dropped down to 165 which is exactly where I've stayed for 26 years. I don't think about my weight or my caloric intake ever. Despite that I neither gain nor lose. If you're healthy, your body regulates itself. If not, no amount of calorie counting or drugs will keep you at a healthy weight.

It's that simple. Being overweight is the result of poor choices and priorities. I might enjoy a pizza and extra large ice cream followed by a night of sitting on my ass. But you know what? I enjoy being able to run up a flight of stairs and not get winded even more. Not to mention having absolutely zero worry about my ability to survive the coof this past year. Did that. Had a cough and fever. Was back to running, swimming and lifting weights about 10 days later. That feels a whole lot better than another slice of pizza tastes.
Riverrat10k
Posts: 259
Incept: 2009-10-23

On a rock in the river
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Odd thing is, alcohol is like a "fifth" food group. Your body breaks down alcohol before using other energy options for cell respiration.
Yah do to much alcohol, yah ain't losing weight. Beer bad, shot ok, kinda. Yah still gotta work through the booze before you start using reserves.

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A motion to adjourn and go fishing is always in order.
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Thecomedian
Posts: 61
Incept: 2018-12-18

Minnesota
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Between this site and a person I knew I was convinced to start living low carb. Changed my life. I was up at 340 and probably pre diabetic. Down to 220 now and working on the last 20-30 or so. Thank you TG. Having tried "normal" carb calorie restriction weight loss I can sympathize with the people wanting an easy way out. Trying to lose weight on the standard American diet using calorie restriction is ****ing misery. Been there, done that.

Add the US****youinDaAss diet to the endless list of .gov failures. They've been peddling the high carb, slow acting rat poison diet for essentially my entire lifetime. These kids coming up never really have a chance.

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Fredx
Posts: 6
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north of Montana
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15% doesn't really mean much. Neither does 100 pounds if you weigh 700. What matters is how much of your excess did you lose. I went from 192 to 162 on the Karl plan - very little bread, rice, potato, noodles or sugar, with virtually zero exercise. Just sat at my desk and it disappeared.

But it sure comes back if I eat many carbs. I said screw it for a Super Bowl a couple years back. Had rum and coke, potato chips and red licorice and literally gained five pounds in one day.
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