California 2A Ruling: Oops
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2021-06-06 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in 2ndAmendment , 435 references Ignore this thread
California 2A Ruling: Oops
[Comments enabled]

Well well look what we have here...

"Like the Swiss Army Knife, the popular AR-15 rifle is a perfect combination of home defense weapon and homeland defense equipment," Benitez said in the ruling. "Firearms deemed as 'assault weapons' are fairly ordinary, popular, modern rifles."
In his ruling, the judge also criticized the news media, writing, "One is to be forgiven if one is persuaded by news media and others that the nation is awash with murderous AR-15 assault rifles. The facts, however, do not support this hyperbole, and facts matter."

Both statements are true.

The AR platform truly is a swiss army knife when it comes to firearms.  You can fit it with multiple upper receivers that have different barrel types, profiles and configurations for different uses.  A bull barrel (heavy and fairly expensive) for target shooting, a light "government profile" one for hunting varmints and other modest-sized game or home defense, several different caliber upper options for various other hunting and target shooting purposes and you can even buy a "pistol" configuration that is indeed designed to be fired with one hand, although frankly I think that's sort of silly as the cartridge is not intended for this and as such they are extraordinarily loud and have a habit of spitting 1' diameter fireballs out the front end along with the projectile.

The weapon can also use "iron" sights, a "reflex" sight that can be used with both eyes open (excellent for home defense) or, for those of us with aging eyes who wish to target shoot or use it for hunting purposes, a scope of your choice.  Depending on the options you choose you can even have more than one set of sights available at a time; a battery-powered reflex sight and "backup" iron sights, for example, should the batteries go dead, or a "flip away" magnifier allowing a reflex sight to be a viable hunting weapon both in close and at longer ranges.

While it is certainly true that people have chose to use this type of firearm as a weapon in mass-shootings, the facts are that rifles of all sorts, including the AR-series rifles, kill fewer people than knives in an average year.  It's not close.  Indeed you're more likely to be punched or kicked to death than killed with a rifle of any sort, including an AR-15 -- by roughly double or more depending on the year, and clubs (including I assume 5 irons), hammers and similar are about as likely to be the instrument of your demise.  As the judge said: Facts matter.  Nobody's talking about registering or banning 5-irons -- or fists.

This ruling will of course be appealed, but perhaps -- just perhaps -- some common sense is showing up.

The facts are that guns are used more-often, by quite a bit, in defense than for illegal, offensive purposes.  Most of the time when a firearm is used for defense it doesn't have to actually be fired; the mere presence is frequently enough for whoever was in the middle of doing something ugly and criminal to decide that their action is a bad idea and change their mind.  Indeed Samuel Colt's revolver was called the "Great Equalizer" and a firearm is; it renders a 5'1" 100lb woman able to effectively stop a 250lb 6' man from raping and/or killing her, a near impossibility otherwise.

Go figure -- criminals don't like the prospect of dying any more than anyone else does and since we refuse to keep criminals in prison, well, that makes the remaining choices rather stark, doesn't it?

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User Info California 2A Ruling: Oops in forum [Market-Ticker]
Posts: 193
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The true purpose of the 2nd Amendment is for protection against our own government. To keep the government in check, we must have the ability to own whatever Law Enforcement, Federal Agencies, or the National Guard is allowed to have. The one exception is the active duty military, as they are held by Posse Comitatus (this is the answer for retarded arguments about privately owned nukes and such).

Should the government wish to ban a weapon from private possession, it must also be banned from all law enforcement, alphabet agencies, secret service, ext. Of course, we all know those agencies won't be giving up their full-cap magazines or anything else, which means they must be available to the public, with no restrictions.

Anyone suggesting otherwise is a danger to society and must be treated as such. They are free to chain themselves up if they wish, but they do not have the right to hold others down. Anyone who meets a gun control advocate, just ask them how that worked out for the Jews in Warsaw.

I'm Team Virus. It Deserves to Win.

The World is Quiet Here
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The 1st amendment is all about the right to criticize the government. The 2nd allows you to back up the 1st.

"Power, like the reproductive muscle, longs to be exercised, often without judgement or right" - Gerry Spence
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This plays directly to my professional work, so, the ruling is certainly welcome... but, wasn't anticipated. It'll be interesting to see if it travels in terms of precedent.

I'm not holding my breath.
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I also hope this sets a precedent to remove other states crazy gun laws. I'm looking at you New Jersey.
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Why now the common sense that we have been seeking for decades?

Case you are curious about fists. A contact that i had years ago was extremely proficient in a particular martial art. Served in the military and lived in a stable community adjacent to mine. White guy, very nice, no mean streak whatsoever, great family guy with no emotional problems or incidents of violence. He was required by New York Law to register with the police since his hands and martial arts discipline were considered deadly weapons. No joke. In the early 90s i told him that this was sick, pre-crime profiling. He agreed but nothing he could do about it. Apparently it was based in the notion that this rather unimposing and lean bodied guy was a deadly threat to any law enforcement officer that might have to interact with him negatively. Additionally any citizen who he might have to strike would face greater injury and he would face higher sanction even in a justifiable situation because he was marked as having superior ability.

In essence they handicapped his ability to use his extra gift of developed body skill to defend himself. This is almost like the argument that the better gun is more dangerous.

Like the bigger vehicle, naturally smarter and stronger, the bigger or better housing, richer, harder working ...

Get it? Liberals like to enforce equality so no one or anything is better than another. One low mediocre level.


"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven," Satan's monologue in the first book of John Milton's Paradise Lost
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San Diego
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Just like he did with the Duncan v Becerra mag ban judgement Benitez wrote both of these summaries articulating the arguments perfectly to measure up to v. Heller. It will take years but if SCOTUS actually picks either of these up we may be pleasantly surprised at the outcome.

"I believe all God's creatures have a soul... except bears, bears are Godless killing machines!"
- Steven Colbert
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Northern Virginia
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Waiting for the news flash (sometime before this hits a higher court) - "An assault weapon, recently termed the "Swiss Army Knife of guns," has just been used in another mass shooting. The Anti-gunners will try to "unword" the SWK description asap. They can't be useful....they have to be evil.
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Proper gun control means using both hands and never having to say "Sorry I missed you."

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance. - The Declaration of Independence
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These Marxists welcome the ruling.
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Sunshine Tax State
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Watching local news over the weekend here in the LA area there was no mention of this, of course. Heard about this on Fox News.

"I'm going to need a hacksaw"----Jack Bauer
"You can get killed walking your doggie!"----Vincent Hanna
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Akron Ohio
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I dont see this standing without an appeal. Law and justice are only applied to further enslave us. My two cents. Theyll shoot this down next week.

The whole world is one big ****ing scam
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Concho Arizona
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@ Augeries
Posse Comitatus is a law that could be overturned by the courts or Rescinded by the legislature. It really doesn't protect us from the use of the military against citizens. Research Bonus Army or even Branch Davidians.

George Washington owned his own Navy. So I highly doubt he would interpret the 2A has forbidding the ownership of any military weapon if you could afford it.
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How many JBGC are on the FBI payroll?

Preparing to go Hunting.
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Pacific Northwest
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Odds that the fascist state of CA will follow the judgement?

I bet not at all. We live in a post constitutional era. They don't need no stinkin' badges.
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After reading this ticker, I think I need another companion (matching) weapon and I am sure I do not have enough ammunition.

If I were married, I would be the ideal wife. "Oh honey, we need to go to Cabela's." "Why?" "Guns and ammo dear." Then when we get there it would be: "is that quality/ expensive enough as a weapon? Let's go up to the next level. Did you get the scope? Additional magazines? Reloader? Now what else should we buy while we are here?"

I don't get the women who give their husbands grief over these things. I am 100 percent in and we better get one of whatever we are buying for me too. That would be my point of complaint - I would insist on his and hers otherwise no deal.

Now this is the sort of "listen to women" and "me too" that I am certain we can all agree upon. Insert smile and wink icon.

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I will marry you Susan.

Send a picture of your boat and balance sheet.

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Prediction: 9th Circuit Court of Appeals will overturn only to be reversed next year by the Supreme Court.
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@Susan....I always buy his/hers....but we have to share the ammo....

"One man gathers what another man spills..."
The Grateful Dead "St.Stephen"

I weep for what was the idea of my country.-Me

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I would stand behind my hubby when it comes to weapons purchase, but, sadly, I live in canukistan where they are even planning to ban anything that even appears to look like a weapon. We have a wooden replica of a handgun (did you get that...WOODEN). It can't be used as it is made of wood (duh). Thanks to justine turdo, it will soon be illegal to own.

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Fort Walton
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Ode to the Gun

Be not afraid of any man,
No matter what his size;
When danger threatens - call on me,
And I will equalize.

As TG noted, firearms are among the most useful of tools, provided everyone is knowledgable in their proper handling and use. It's the ignorant and deranged who mis-use that tool and are the true danger.

Watch an old 1950s era western movie. There were guns on almost every hip, yet their use was infrequent and usually highlighted abundantly as part of the script.

Brawls and fistfights were commonplace, but reaching for the gun at any time introduced a new set of rules that was likely to cost you your life. Everyone else nearby scrambles to get out of the way, and the reason for a brawl fades into the background. Common sense dictated that chosing that path was reserved for critically important matters, and not for having differing opinions on a topic of personal taste (unless you were the bad guy in the movie).

I'd be willing to bet that a significant percentage of anti-gun folks have never dealt with a gun in person and do not realize that those who use guns regularly are very serious about preventing their mis-use.

My Sister-in-Law is a case in point. She was born and raised in Philly. Shortly after she married my brother they came to our home town in the middle of nowhere, upstate NY during a summer holiday when everyone was there for a family gathering. We knew everyone was coming and had arranged to bring our guns to do a bit of shooting on my Grandfather's farm (one pasture had a small stream in a gully with 15 foot high shale walls - perfect for perforating coffee cans in their native habitat).

When the time came we invited the SiL to come shooting and her response was one of ignorance and fear. She wasn't sure she wanted to come near a 'dangerous' gun really, but we talked her into coming along to watch, if nothing else.

Her eyes were as big as pancakes when everyone pulled out their assorted guns (we had several each) and began to carry them over to where we usually sat to shoot. Well, she was a trooper when we offered to show her the way we did things when plinking.

Everyone waited while my Brother went over everything with her. Started off with a Ruger Mark IV .22 caliber pistol. Showed her that the gun wasn't loaded. Showed her how to check for herself and how to unload safely. Showed her where/how the safety worked. Explained that every gun should be assumed to be loaded until verified otherwise. NEVER point it at anyone, even when unloaded. Showed her how to aim and shoot, where the ejected case would go - all with an empty gun.

Then, the ammo came out. Showed her how to load, chamber a round, aim, and fire. Explained how the gun reloaded after pulling the trigger. Demonstrated same (loaned her ear protectors and glasses to watch from up close). Told her if she had any questions, at any time, or just wasn't certain what to do, that she should render the gun safe and ask before doing anything else.

Unloaded the gun, and offered it to her.

To her credit, she took the gun and very carefully began. My brother stopped her immediately and made her check to see if it was loaded (shortly after he unloaded it), just to make the point. This is serious stuff. ALWAYS check, every time, even when it seems dumb. If the gun is in your hands, you are responsible for it's safety. The ultimate error is assuming something and being wrong. You might hurt or kill someone as a result. So ... CHECK it.

After that, she walked through loading, chambering, aiming, firing the weapon a couple times. Was made to unload and verify before handing the gun back to my brother, who then checked for himself. Told her to never be offended if anyone else did the same. In fact, if someone didn't check first thing, then maybe you should rethink trusting them with a gun. Safety first. Show them it is empty, ask them to double check.

Only when she showed an understanding of how we did things did everyone else begin shooting themselves.

She repeated the same sequence for nearly every gun there. She stuck with it and worked her way through the entire arsenal, asking lots of questions along the way, and receiving the occasional reminder when she forgot something important. For a first timer she did remarkably well handling firearms and she even managed to hit a few coffee cans along the way.

After a couple hours of shooting we packed things up and went back to the family outing for cake and pie with some well aerated coffee cans in tow.

On the way back my SiL kept commenting on how much fun that was and that she didn't realize that so many rules were involved and how careful we were during the entire exercise. Complete, 180 degree change of opinion regarding guns. Couldn't wait to do it again.

In fact, my niece and nephew were both raised in a house with guns-a-plenty nearby. They were raised understanding the same set of rules from a very early age and the SiL was on board from the start.

Fear and ignorance can be overcome with education. I've seen it happen first hand.

Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it.
― Thomas Paine
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Greenacr wrote..
. . . only to be reversed next year by the Supreme Court.
Aren't you a wild-eyed optimist!!!

The sad truth is that the USSC, whether it leans "liberal" or "conservative", cannot be counted on to rule according to Constitutional principles in ANY case relating to the rights of the people vs. gov't power. If you don't realize that, you haven't been paying attention.

Recent reminders: PATRIOT Act, military commissions, asset forfeiture, warrantless surveillance, etc., etc., etc.

". . . the Constitution has died, the economy welters in irreversible decline, we have perpetual war, all power lies in the hands of the executive, the police are supreme, and a surveillance beyond Orwells imaginings falls into place." - Fred Reed

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I can imagine getting plugged by someone with an AR-15 wouldn't be a hell of a lot of fun. But getting beat to death with a 5 iron? That's not going to be either quick or pleasant.

I think all of the politicians that like to try to grab guns should have security details armed with 5 irons. Maybe assault woods for the really important guys...

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the Comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
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If theyre VIPs would they be allowed multiple caddies?
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Leaving CA
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The truth about the government's stance on guns can be found easily through a few simple 'questions'.

How many California representatives (Congress and Senate) oppose "assault weapons" but also vote for our never ending wars?

How many California representatives oppose gun possession but are also followed around by a bunch of bodyguards with guns?

Same could be asked for every state's representatives that claim to oppose gun possession.

If you vote for war, have armed bodyguards and claim to be against guns you are a tyrant through and through.

"Why yes, I am trying to destroy the planet. I want your children to live in the hell they deserve..."
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