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2021-06-05 08:32 by Karl Denninger
in Editorial , 359 references Ignore this thread
This, Friends, Is Insanity
[Comments enabled]

I didn't think this was more than a handful of tinfoil hatters running around -- apparently, it is.

Two days ago, the New York Times’s Maggie Haberman reported that Donald Trump “has been telling a number of people he’s in contact with that he expects he will get reinstated by August.” In response, many figures on the right inserted their fingers into their ears and started screaming about fake news.

Instead, they should have listened — because Haberman’s reporting was correct. I can attest, from speaking to an array of different sources, that Donald Trump does indeed believe quite genuinely that he — along with former senators David Perdue and Martha McSally — will be “reinstated” to office....

What?

As I pointed out back in November and December in a handful of articles I penned at the time if Trump really believed the election was stolen and could not get judges to issue injunctions or state authorities to actually go in and prove (or disprove) his theories then he had only two choices:

  • Accept that he was cheated and retire from the field of play on January 20th and, if he so decided, make another run for it in 2024.

  • Pick up a gun, get a bunch of other people who believed it too that were willing to do the same thing and go seize the election materials by force and prove it.

Yeah, that second option is, well, a pot-commit that you're right.  If you do it and are wrong the best outcome is that you're destroyed; you spend the rest of your life in prison, so do a lot of other people and, if someone shoots (and someone probably will on one side or the other) you may well get the needle depending on exactly where that happens.

This situation -- where one candidate or the other declares that there were shenanigans sufficient to change the outcome has happened before.  Depending on who you ask it's somewhere between four and eight Presidential elections.  1876 was one of them, where widespread voter intimidation (aimed at blacks) was alleged.  Maybe enough to change the outcome.  Hayes won -- by one EV.  Or did he?  Well, maybe and maybe not, but Tilden didn't pick up a gun.

Not long after Cleveland lost -- but then ran again, and the next time beat Harrison, being the only President to win non-consecutive terms of office.  Yes, that's happened before too.

Of course there's the infamous 1960 Nixon and Kennedy election.  That was the very-famous Daley political machine in Chicago, and yet.... Nixon walked off.  Only to come back, of course in 1968.

People argue 2000 but frankly, compared to the other three that's weak sauce and I was in Florida at the time.

The problem once January 20th comes and goes is that there is exactly no possible way for it to be undone in our Constitution.  It literally does not matter if it's proved after that date.  Once Congress has accepted the EV certificates and voted to confirm them that's the end of it.  You could conceivably impeach both Biden and Harris, but even that doesn't get there because there is a line of succession and guess what party is in control of The House right now?  Even if you don't do it until 2022 and the House flips you still don't get there.

With that said we do deserve these answers.  Anyone who doesn't support independent audits is nuts.  There's only one reason to not want those to take place: You think there was cheating and thus there's something that will be found!  After all a complete audit in Maricopa County that fails to find any evidence of tampering, stuffed ballots or other misdeeds ends the discussion for that county, does it not?  Does not the same thing in Georgia and other states do the same thing there?  It sure does considering that those who think there was tampering are the ones doing the auditing.  If the state Legislatures want to fund that what's the problem?  If private groups want to fund it what's the problem?  The law requires ballots and materials to be maintained and not tampered with for an extended period of time after an election for that very reason -- in case someone challenges what happened.  So long as the aggrieved party pays for it I fail to understand what the potential issue is that justifies saying "No."

Are there remedies if, in fact, tens of thousands of ballots were printed on a laser printer and stuffed in Arizona -- or Fulton County?  Sure.  People could go to prison.  Laws could be changed related to elections so it can't happen again.  We could even have a drive to do what I've long advocated since the 2000 fiasco: All paper ballots, all mark-sense readers, originals are kept, no absentee unless you can prove you will be out of the County on election day, such as for the military, and everyone dips their finger in indelible ink so you can't vote twice.

Now if I think the counting machine has been tampered with I can count the ballots by hand.  All of them.  Unless someone is willing to chop off their finger they're not stuffing the box; the poll books have to balance.  And if I have to prove (and submit said proof) that I'm not going to be there on election day to get an absentee ballot then the number of people who can potentially tamper with that part of it is small enough to likely not matter in national and state-wide races.

I have also advocated that the counting must be both continuous and hermitic; that is, until the results are final there is no release of anything to anyone by any means.  This can be done; you can take an entire state (the unit at which EVs are computed) and mandate that the counting rooms at the precinct or county level are sealed and nobody, nor any thing (including electronic signals) enters or leaves the counting rooms once the process begins until the entire state is complete.  Yes, this means you need some way for people to use the bathroom in the counting area and all electronic devices must be confiscated with no outside connectivity for anything whatsoever.  So what?  Now there is no way to know "how much" you're up or down by until it's all done.  It suddenly becomes a lot harder to cheat during the counting process.

So yeah, I think this all ought to go forward by whoever's willing to pay for it, whether a legislature or private party.  Let's see it, let's have it, I see no reason not to.  The entire purpose of retaining the material is to make that possible; no law is without purpose, and that's the clear purpose.

But the premise that someone Trump "returns" -- prior to running in 2024 should NY not hose him first, and he actually wants to run again, is nuts.

Flat out screaming full-sheet of LSD-dropping bonkers.

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Rsilvetz
Posts: 1
Incept: 2021-05-28

New York, NY
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These are unprecedented times. Our gracious host may be wrong in fact, not theory. We see only a tip of the iceberg that is the conflict between Patriots and Deep State.

Long before any public announcement regarding a reinstatement, I heard the same from well-placed internal sources months prior. The remedy may be extra-constitutional, but if audits prove that Trump certainly had the requisite Electoral votes, potentially up to the infamous German server with a 410-118 vote, the current Administration loses all authority in a Constitutional crisis of illegitimacy. Putting the legitimate President back in Office may the shortest distance to travel to remediate a Constitutional crisis.

In any event, all that needs to happen now is watch and wait.

As an aside, it was obvious the Election was stolen. Parallel runs of statistically impossible 98% Biden votes after an illegal vote stop, in multiple States no less, where Trump was leading, followed by judicial stonewalling... is just too obvious.

The only reason Trump did not cross the Rubicon with the Military was almost certainly that a threat to the US citizenry by the Deep State could not be mitigated. Given the astonishing level of military support the President had and still has, it is a conclusion one reaches by exclusion.

Time will tell. August is but 3 months out.
Tickerguy
Posts: 174196
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@Rsilvetz - Meh.

Mr. 5dChess let the medical system slaughter a half-million Americans and did nothing to stop it. In fact, he enabled and promoted it. He's also 100% responsible for all of the inflation you're seeing now. **** him; he's no different than the rest of them when you get down to it.

Dickface should be indicted, arrested, tried, convicted and get to ride Ole Sparky one volt at a time with one second intervals between the voltage steps for that crap standing alone.

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I don't give a flying **** if you're offended.

Thelazer
Posts: 528
Incept: 2009-05-11

Davenport, Fl
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I fail to see our court system even coming close to hearing any case related to it. You want to see the boog start up? That's going to do it.
Blanca
Posts: 76
Incept: 2020-07-25

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I really wish these people who believe Trump has some way into office based on a stolen election would shut up. They are making all of us conservatives look like we are conspiracy theorists. As Karl says, the time to act was before the certification of the vote. It's too late now.

Trump can be president again if he runs and wins in 2024. Trump needs to go away. He lost because of cheating and because he failed to reign in Fauci and Birx.
Happyapricot
Posts: 42
Incept: 2019-07-06

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I don't think the Military or DOJ is going to do anything to upset the apple cart. Everybody is being paid with monopoly money. Make a move on the corruption, and the money printing will stop and everybody will lose their pension.
Tdurden
Posts: 1102
Incept: 2015-01-29

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Agree that the premise of Trump being "re instated" is an extra crispy bucket-o-crazy. But the source of said rumor, the New York ****ing Times, leaves something to be desired in the credibility area. Same with GOPe property of NR. More "trust us and our totally un-named, made up sources." At some point after the 10th or 20th time the NYT gets caught making **** up, it may impair their ability to be believed.

POTUS aside, is there some facility for states to recall senators or house members if errors or outright frauds are discovered after certification?

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"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next 10 generations that some favors come with too high of a price." -Vir Cotto Babylon 5
Lazydaizy316
Posts: 80
Incept: 2016-10-21

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A friend of mine told me that if I want a laugh, I should look at some of the Q crap. Tinfoil hats aren't even the tip of the iceberg. I doubt if I saw the half of it. Trump will be back in August. JKJr will be his VP (oh, hadn't you heard, John Jr didn't die in that plane crash) Mike Lindell will be given a cabinet position, Hillary has been arrested along with obamma and they are in guantanamo bay. Biden is not really at the WH. He is at some hollywood movie set. I could go on, but I won't.

Q is one of those things that needs more than a 6 pack and an XL popcorn to get you through.

I may not be the brightest bulb on our family Christmas tree, but even I knew that the "cloud" was for morons. That is like letting a burglar hold your valuables. What could possibly go wrong? (I also didn't take the china jab. I guess that makes me part of the great unwashed)

------------
God is great
Beer is good
And people are stupid.
Tsherry
Posts: 5809
Incept: 2008-12-09

Spokane WA
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Trumps done.

So is the country, but we are still waiting for the opening kickoff.
Depression2020
Posts: 147
Incept: 2020-03-20

Northern Virginia
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LOL! "Mr. 5dChess..." I love it. It's MAGA and Q-Anon **** like this that damages the credibility of all conservatives.

I've ranted about it since the election. The propagandists keep repeating that there's no such thing as fraud, and there's nothing to see here so move along, the "Big Lie," blah, blah, blah. They could have just taken steps to take air out of the room. Admit that there was some fraud, there's always fraud in every election, but usually not enough to matter. They could have quietly allowed all the audits and recounts required by law and demanded requested at the expense of the aggrieved without amplifying and repeating the narrative that there's no such thing as election fraud. They could have done all that, and still had their opportunity to score political points (to say "I told you so") if the aggrieved got everything they asked for.
Abelardlindsey
Posts: 219
Incept: 2021-03-26

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I started reading this on Vox Day's blog about a month ago. I've seen it on a blog called "anonymous conservative" as well. I regard it as a fantasy and pay very little attention to it. I have no idea why this fantasy is being cooked up right now.
Themortgagedude
Posts: 12233
Incept: 2007-12-17

Saint Charles MO
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I don't see any way this happens unless Americans demand it. I'm talking 25 million stop working and surround the Capital. It would be a revolution to take Biden out. Does this need to happen? Yep. Will it? Nope.

Never mind me. I'm going to go back to eating Cheetohs and masturbating. It seems more productive.

BTW why is my penis orange?

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I think its time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that our founding fathers intended for us. Ronald Reagan 1964
Wifi
Posts: 6151
Incept: 2013-02-13

The Land That Was
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Saw this but glazed over it, I figured it was Trump trolling the MSM, or the MSM, with their, bull****, like hookers pissing on the bed.

The **** that penned this is a CNN political analyst!
To be honest I did not read much beyond the headline.

The Trump dick lickers are crazy, and the OMB, TDS, people are ****ing crazy, it's up to the individual to determine the level of crazy, and who is crazier.

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"Freedom cannot end where fear begins."
Robby Dinero
Aztrader
Posts: 8637
Incept: 2007-09-10

Scottsdale, AZ
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The way the election was run and the vote dumps in the middle of the night with thousands of witnesses still was all ignored by the GOP. Everyone knows this was a coup on the country and not just Trump. His VP was even involved along with thousands of various state employees included the people running those states. The flow of money must have been massive for these governors, SEC of state and everyone else to fight to cover it up.
The democrats used Covid has a massive smoke screen to steal the election and it worked. Trump along with millions of voters got broad sided and didn't even know it until they woke up the next morning.
The democrats knew that if the election was certified, then nothing else mattered. They paid off the right people and had the media to back them.

Trump is toast and so is the country the way things look. Every crook that took money in order to fix this election should be formally labelled a traitor as the thousands of third world crap invades our country. Obama is calling the shots and all Biden is a voice for him. Terms like "JIM CROW" came right out of Obama's mouth. Shutting down the pipeline and buying oil from Iran are only frosting on the cake for Obama. He despised our freedom and wants everyone to pay dearly for hating him.
The Audits won't change anything except the minds of millions of people that want to know what really happened. They want to know that their vote counted and if not, how to fix it.
We know in Arizona, that the crooked Registrar mailed out thousands of early ballots to people that didn't request them. These ballots came back very early and easily could have been opened and replaced before the election even started. Another part of the steal was intentionally spoiling ballots and then forcing them into the scanners which ended up in a SPOILED FILE. All it took to steal these ballots was to steal the file with a click of the mouse.
I asked a person in the Senate to change the way spoiled ballots are handled and not allow them to be forced into a machine. Put them in an actual lock box for later review by both parties. Dominion has to go and no machine should have a bypass button for ballot scanning.
Counting ballots needs to end within 48 hours of the election and not three weeks like happened in Arizona in 2018 which got Hobbs (SEC of State) and Sinema elected.
The left is trying to turn our country into the EU which is now nothing but a crap hole with hundreds of migrant ghetto's and unlimited crime. In most EU countries, it is illegal to defend yourself with any weapon meaning you either submit or run. The democrats want that here so all I can say is buckle up and get ready for a **** storm if they get their way.
Rickylc
Posts: 1537
Incept: 2009-02-09

Lansing Michigan
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The hope is it will get tied to the truth about the vex and then use this bull**** to undermine people who are actually correct about the vex.

they are all right wing conspiracy nuts.

and there are still people who will swallow this **** hook, line, and sinker.
Whitehat
Posts: 4991
Incept: 2017-06-27

Elsewhere
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Trump's ego, nothing more. He plays people emotionally invested in him probably without giving it conscious thought. He is a natural.

Men voting for Trump embody their own desires in him. They also idolize other "players" in the vernacular world. Usually in late age these types all land in the same place as their idols. It is pathetic. Only thing that saves Trump is that he has enough access to resources to keep from being an old failure in a one room apt or trailer delivering takeout in his once cool car.

Or does he?

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smiley

"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven," Satan's monologue in the first book of John Milton's Paradise Lost
Capcomp
Posts: 65
Incept: 2009-09-10

Virginia
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Coming from the NY Times it makes perfect sense. The left rules their tribe through emotion. They have done really well with "Orange Man Bad/TDS". With the news breaking on the origins of Covid they need something else to keep the tribe focused on.

Not sure on the reliably of this, https://redstate.com/jenvanlaar/2021/06/.... but if true I hope it at least rids us of Fraudchi.
Pharmadude
Posts: 169
Incept: 2020-03-26

NC
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"Trust the plan", but how can that be when the plan never produced results. Then reinterpret the secret codes for the real plan - just wait and watch!
smiley

Looks like doing nothing was "the plan" from the start. The sheeple are still in their pens while TPTB remain in charge. The fleecing continues, and the slaughter is soon to come.
Quantum
Posts: 31
Incept: 2021-05-18

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I completely agree with this post. Even if fraud is conclusively proven the only possible recourse is election reforms before 2022 and a vote then. If the Sup. Ct. failed to take up that major lawsuit led by Texas before certification, they certainly aren't going to do anything now (much less order a new election like some have been suggesting). I hope something meaningful happens in the election reform department, but so far the results are underwhelming: Georgia didn't even dump the Dominion voting system.



Frieza
Posts: 64
Incept: 2019-03-09

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Rsilvetz wrote..
Time will tell. August is but 3 months out.
How many missed deadlines does it take before you people stop regarding these claims with any credibility? Because I think you're up to 4, and that's just post-inauguration. There's a difference between being open-minded and being a sucker.

Hell, if you want to get tin, we can spin this the other way: Trump has taken some kind of plea deal and is participating in an entrapment op. Come August, he'll tell all his loyal followers to assemble outside DC with guns in hand to 'take back the republic.' An ambush will be waiting and anyone stupid enough to show up will be killed or arrested for sedition.

The above is a work of fiction that took me 5 seconds to come up with, but is substantially more plausible than Trump being reinstated.
Fumei
Posts: 2060
Incept: 2019-01-08

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Since the rule of law in the USSA is a fiction that is honoured in the breach, I could see him return so soon as el presidente. And I could imagine him being deposed again. It would be more '**** all of you dolts' and more handling of our real enemies with kid gloves. Millions of traitors need to be unemployed, impoverished, imprisoned, or dead, tasks that neither the Trumpster fire nor the green goons will undertake.
Susanlauren
Posts: 140
Incept: 2021-05-01

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Ain't gonna happen. Blackmail, bribery, fraud, corruption, sedition, stolen election, successful coup ... None of these things matter anymore. The whole edifice is rotten to the core. It will collapse of its own weight - not sure when - just that it will. Voting doesn't matter and maybe it has been that way for a very long time. People are not going to rise up by the millions and surround DC. Ain't gonna happen.
Greenacr
Posts: 269
Incept: 2016-03-15

Northern Ohio
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Honestly think this is just part of a continuing disinformation campaign by the left. They are deeply afraid the Trump will run again or try to influence the mid terms. Therefore they are trotting out all sorts of **** on Trump via the MSM to try to keep their troops stirred up and deflect attention away from the Xiden machine.
Heartlander
Posts: 156
Incept: 2021-02-25

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@Aztrader

Thank you for taking the time to post such an insightful and informative comment.

I second every single thing you said except one: "The flow of money must have been massive for these governors, SEC of state and everyone else to fight to cover it up."

I don't doubt that there is lots of bribery, but I don't think money alone explains it all. The people running things are basically a mafia, and let's not forget that money is only one of the Mafia's tactics -- the carrot, if you will. They also have plenty of sticks -- steal/destroy your livelihood, kidnap your children, burn down your house, slander you so that you become permanently radioactive, plant drugs in your car/office and get you arrested, on and on and on. Granted, it's probably most commonly the "you'll never work in this town again" threat that does it. But the one that ALWAYS WORKS is "beautiful family you got there -- sure be a shame if something happened to them...."
Garrett
Posts: 17
Incept: 2021-04-20

Ann Arbor, MI
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Agreed. If Trump wouldn't commit, why should anyone now support him?

I found Doug Uncola Lynn addressed this very well:

"In the aftermath of the 2018 Midterm Elections, I began to consider Trump as the manifestation of one of the following three possibilities:

1.) The Real Thing (swamp fighter)

2.) Serving the agenda of the global financial elite unwittingly (divisive dupe)

3.) Controlled opposition as a Judas Goat or Trojan Horse (divisive traitor)."

I think his call was spot-on. You can read more here: https://thetollonline.com/2020/11/16/cha....

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