I'm Impressed: One Man Was Killed Three Times
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2021-04-21 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Stupidity , 561 references Ignore this thread
I'm Impressed: One Man Was Killed Three Times
[Comments enabled]

Well, America has proved once again that we are Boobus Americanus.

You see, Floyd was one man.  You can certainly commit homicide against him but it is not possible to commit homicide three times against one person.

Yes, you could have first committed assault and then homicide, but not three homicides just as you can't hang someone three times.

Well, ok, the other two would be desecration of a corpse.

As I have pointed out multiple times in these pages you can disagree with a verdict but if you honor the rule of law you must respect it, and you were not there in the courtroom and thus have an imperfect understanding of the evidence presented, even if you watched every minute of the trial.

But an impossibility is an impossibility, and what the jury found was not possible since you cannot commit three felonious homicides against one person.

In addition the two murder charges of which Chauvin was convicted are mutually exclusionary by their legal definitions.

If that's not enough 2nd Degree Murder in Minnesota requires a predicate felony which was not charged at all; but for said charge and conviction you can't commit 2nd Degree Murder in that state.

That the jury did not immediately determine this is proof of tampering at best and mass-hysteria at worst is plenty of reason to toss the entire thing standing alone.  Both are cause for a set-aside on appeal, and both will be pursued.

Chauvin may well serve time for one of those three charges, but he cannot serve time for all three in any just society.

Not that it matters in today's world.  Biden, Pelosi and dozens of others lauded this stupidity.

All they did was mark themselves as non-persons; they have no brain, they do not care about the law, and to the extent any such person took an oath to uphold same they just voided any legitimate claim they had on their office.

As for cops in places such as the myriad Burn, Loot and Murder bastions, well, why would you work there?

Why would you protect any politician in such a place?

Why would you do anything other than resign right here, now and today and let them all be burnt, looted and murdered?

If you live in such a town why stay?  And worse, why would you ever assist, deal with or even tolerate any police officer or employee of the force (sworn or not) given that if they do not immediately quit their only reason for being on said force is to rob you and, given that they have guns, it's armed robbery too.

You just watched an impossibility happen for political purposes, and no matter which side of the argument you're on, this much is clear: You're next.

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Lrs
Posts: 431
Incept: 2009-02-04

Missouri
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Yep I was wondering how such crap is possible.
GF was special

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Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it.
― Thomas Paine
Bearcubs9497
Posts: 95
Incept: 2017-02-01

Huntsville, AL
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son wants to go into law enforcement. he's applied to several local departments, as well as a few out of state; memphis and houston being the ones that quickly come to mind.

anyway, i don't have a problem with him joining the ranks of LEO, but my advice to him was don't EVEN consider joining the force of a city run by commie city councils (e.g. memphis or houston).
Frat
Posts: 5568
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NKY
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Yep.

Any sensible person would walk right out, regardless of any duty they feel to the community at large, since they should have the highest duty to themselves.

So... If all the sensible people resign (as, again - they should)... Who does that leave us left with doing the "policing?"

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We're ****ed. Where's Henry Bowman Kyle Rittenhouse when you need him?
Wifi
Posts: 5972
Incept: 2013-02-13

The Land That Was
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This entire trial is a complete farce. I would like to see the written instructions given to the jury, the instructions, would have language explaining to them on a third grade level, what they can, and can not do.

There was no deliberation, certainly they all watched the news, they were not sequestered, during the course of the trial, except at the very end. It almost appears this was planned from the start.

Purely a political banana republic show of mob rule.

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"Freedom cannot end where fear begins."
Robby Dinero
Contra-2
Posts: 91
Incept: 2020-04-21

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I'm not taking the cop's side. He displayed an unbelievable lack of judgement and restraint. He's guilty of something, but not murder. The problem with this "guilty" verdict is that it will embolden every Leftist crackpot and psycho in the Country to provoke the police wherever and whenever they can.
The black and red banners are being raised all over America today. The Comrades are giving each other high fives and planning their next riot. Now they know they can threaten the Justice System with mass violence if they're not given a pass on anything they do.
Minneapolis didn't burn this go-around. But, I expect a lot of cities will go up in flames this year. The Bolsheviks think they're on a roll.
Whitehat
Posts: 4815
Incept: 2017-06-27

Elsewhere
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Karl wrote..
As for cops in places such as Burn, Loot and Murder bastions, well, why would you work there?

Why would you protect any politician in such a place?

Why would you do anything other than resign right here, now and today?

ANSWER: because their jobs have excellent pay, benefits and retirement along with a host of other advantages not available to the average citizen. This is in conjunction with the FACT that their jobs are with very rare exception not at all dangerous or distasteful. Most of the excessive force is so that they do not have to get their hands dirty.

I have lived around POS government workers for a significant time, in this case cops. They want these jobs and use these rare exceptions and other societal situations to justify their status as heroes. This article just fell into that trap by questioning why they would ever continue to go to work.

The POS cops will use this injustice as a justification for doing nothing about real problems while preying upon the good people for revenue generation. The union leaders are rubbing their hands together as they just feathered their nests of using cop resentment to "let things happen" such as delayed response times and cops not going into bad situation that the citizens expect of them. Then, when it is negotiation time, they will enlist the "law and order" and "love of cop authority" citizens to state that the police need to be supported with better training, equipment, laws and, of course, ding, ding, ding, better pay and benefits.

Every time one hears better training, think less work. They will create all sorts of details to keep them busy. Equipment will simply add to the police state. can just hear it now that cops must escalate since they do not have the equipment to handle very large and strong suspects. Of course there will be calls for greater personnel so that there are more hands to subdue a suspect in a manner that does not cause injury.

We have a thread where union non-work is discussed in The Bar section. Well the cops are going to create from this lots of non-work that pays even better to give the appearance of doing something.

There is an old line, "If you do not like your job, quit."

Well, they like their jobs just fine.

Perhaps there is an employment crisis in this country that does not give other avenues. However, lots of us have kept jobs which we did not like for lack of options, hell even businesses. I guarantee you that even with the best alternative employment situations,

MOST COPS WILL NEVER QUIT. IT is simply too good of a deal for them. This is why when they open applications for the jobs there is always a waiting list no matter how much the great offerings in private industry.

See through the bull****. So one ******* takes a fall. He might have been a guy who tried to be productive on the job or took it seriously. Guys like him have to be eliminated.

My family, never cops or in LE, knows this very well. It is simply the way of the society. Do too good of a job, and you make others look bad.

The union, society, co-workers and even employers (including private industry) will hang you out as the example, abuse you or place you in the worst situation. No matter how appropriate the situation or one's handling of it according to job rules this society is not about excellence and dedication.

If the cops had just let the guy run or give them a serious reason to shoot him, they would have gone home and still had their jobs sans criminal charges. Perhaps lotsa overtime instead or a comp of sorts.

And it just got proved today.

Wonder why in the current crisis of public health doctors and scientists are not endeavoring to do the right thing.

You just got your answer.

It is all connected. People hate their neighbors and community. The person serving you sees no deep cultural connection with you which creates moral obligation and connection.

You are a means to an end, a thing, and the POS cops just reminded their members of said. Don't step out of line or attempt to sacrifice to do a good job. It is easier to write violations and arrest easy cases. On this the Blacks are correct. They are often target for the cops to "look busy" and offer little individual and community resistance. Perhaps they misdirected their anger with these protests, and of course the wrong types always drive a movement based upon rage.

Everyone is the problem for looking the other way for too long. If you will let others be used for busy work simply because you do not like them, do not be surprised when it happens to you.

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smiley

"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven," Satan's monologue in the first book of John Milton's Paradise Lost
Twainfan2
Posts: 249
Incept: 2018-12-04

MN
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Lots of issues to appeal on besides this as well...
jury tampering/intimidation by Waters et al.
jury not sequestered so they saw/heard all of the news on the current riots
prosecution trying to introduce new evidence when the judge warned them not to but did it anyway.
no change of venue = tainted jury pool.

There was never a chance for him to get a fair trial. From my perusing of the evidence, the lesser charge of manslaughter might have been the only one they could have legitimately convicted him on due to negligence on his part. On appeal he may just get a whole new trial due Mad Maxine's comments because this judge failed to do his job properly and even admitted so.

The rule of law is gone... why would any cop ever bother going into a black neighborhood anywhere again after this? They made an icon out of a career criminal who should have been in prison and not on the street passing phony money.
Franco
Posts: 159
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I was also confused by three homicide verdicts with only one dead person. A lawyer said that most certainly the judge will sentence him only on the most serious of the three convictions.
Engineertype
Posts: 16
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Granville NY
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Exactly my response when the verdict was announced. It is simply impossible! I have never heard of such a verdict and I have served on multiple jury trials.
Blackcrow
Posts: 46
Incept: 2021-04-04

Texas
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As to this case, I don't think the prosecution proved elements of murder, negligient homicide maybe. The judge and jury were clearly afraid of the mob.

I guess you can Burn Loot Murder your way to whatever verdict you want.

Minneapolis is down 25% on their police force. I predict a mass exodus - or they are just going let violent POC law breakers get away.

Either outcome spells doom for the city - and our country.

Mogadishu here were come.

Idiom
Posts: 270
Incept: 2015-02-20

New Zealand
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I was always under the impression the prosecution had to pick one and go with it, picking the strongest one they thought they could prove, but risking that the guy walks if they don't prove the stronger claim.

I definitely didn't think you could get convicted several times for the same crime.
Windellmc
Posts: 75
Incept: 2012-02-26

Indianapolis
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I assume if they convicted him of murder 2 then said not guilty of murder 3 and manslaughter then his appeal and retrial would be for murder 2 only because they cannot retry any charge once a not guilty verdict is reached. I dont think they can ever prove murder 2 in a fair trial. Seems like the verdict was intended to punt the whole thing to the next jury.
Aquapura
Posts: 1884
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Unfree State of MN
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I didn't listen to all the judges instructions to the jurors but I'm not surprised by the verdict based on the generally low IQ of the selected jurors and secondly the fact that they all live in Burn, Loot, Murder central. I'm sure they have all feared for the safety of their person and property since Memorial Day 2000. While a high profile case like this should have had a sequestered jury I think the lack of a change in venue was the biggest disgrace to the "justice" system because you'd have to literally be Amish and espouse all electronics to not have seen the video of Floyd on the pavement prior to showing up in court. That said, the jury did their job as they probably saw it. Last night Minneapolis didn't burn. Lots of celebrating in the streets with marching around town chanting **** da police and other ****. I'm sure the politicians see that as a win, Derek Chauvin be damned.

Over in the bar I commented last night that I feel sorry for the black community after this verdict. Police officers are no different than most people. It's a job and they are there to collect a paycheck and retire someday with their cushy pensions. Can't see how any cop in this country is not evaluating this verdict against what they do day-to-day in their jobs. I can all but guarantee it means a lot less policing in high crime areas which are usually communities of color. Black men are very good at killing other black men, and while I don't mourn dead gang bangers they often catch innocent people in the crossfire. Heyjackass documents this very well in Chicago. I expect we will need a lot more websites like that in our future.

But blacks killing other blacks is easy for the politicians to brush off. And even the leaders of the community like Al Sharpton, etc. never talk about that, but if a white person kills a black person, boy oh boy is that news. It's not openly said but that's what this is all about. A white guy put his knee on the neck of a black man. As a society we keep telling one race of people they are victims of a practice that was abolished 150 years ago. Immediately facts go out the window and it's 100% about race - the white man keeping the black man down. Police are far from flawless but had Chauvin been a black cop this whole thing would've been a nothing burger. Instead the State is going to put away Chauvin as the fall guy to literally save us from some burn, loot, murder and let the black see this as a victory while they go back to their ghettos to burn, loot, murder each other.

This is just a rinse and repeat. Idiot pols like Biden and Pelosi, et. al. used this for their gain while people of color won nothing.

Tickerguy
Posts: 173524
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A True American Patriot!
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A prosecutor can charge "lesser included" offenses, but for a single victim you can only be killed once.

Second Degree murder in Minnesota requires a predicate felony occurring at the same time. For instance, you rob a bank and in the process of doing it kill someone (e.g. by running them over with your getaway car.) You did not intend to kill the person you ran over, but it is second degree murder because you were committing a felony (robbing the bank) at the time.

Third degree murder in Minnesota is "depraved mind" killing, or furnishing controlled substances resulting in death.

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I don't give a flying **** if you're offended.

Eaandkw
Posts: 68
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Now in Texas
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I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who noticed that.

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Winding it down
Blanca
Posts: 59
Incept: 2020-07-25

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I got pulled over by a cop several months ago for failure to signal from a left turn only lane. I didn't argue and he issued me a warning. He applauded me for not giving him trouble. Had he issued me a ticket I would have gone to court.

I lost a lot of respect for the police department in my city after this incident. Police are arresting people for not wearing masks and writing tickets for speeding and watching as BLM burns, loots, and murders. Police are enforcing obviously unconstitutional executive orders by hassling business owners and churches. Law abiding citizens are easy prey for revenue generation schemes.

We all suffer when there is a lack of respect for police AND the police behave in a thuggish manner. We need them to do their jobs and keep us safe.
Tickerguy
Posts: 173524
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A True American Patriot!
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They have never had a duty to keep you safe @Blanca; that's "puffery" for the side of their cars, and nobody has forced them to remove it and stop bull****ting despite the Supreme Court ruling that said "duty" does not exist.

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I don't give a flying **** if you're offended.
Nealcassady
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The 3 other LEO's on scene were deemed to be powerless in changing the course/outcome of the situation but are subject to legal/civil action.
Blanca
Posts: 59
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@Tickerguy - agreed. But then what is their purpose?
Tickerguy
Posts: 173524
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A True American Patriot!
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Commit armed robbery for the benefit of your municipality.

And you let them do it.

Secondarily, come take a report AFTER someone is victimized, and perhaps call the coroner to black-bag you if you're dead.

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I don't give a flying **** if you're offended.

Radiosity
Posts: 611
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Sunny UK
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@Blanca - it's no one's duty but your own to keep you safe.
Nealcassady
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Warren vrs District of Columbia
Dji
Posts: 1498
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Ponzi world 3rd rock from the sun
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How many funerals did the convicted felon/counterfeiter/drug addict have?

3 No?

banana republic is now a complement for the former USA

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What goes up Must come Down- Alan Parsons Project
Superdude
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This is the best explanation I can find on the verdict of being charged 3 times:
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2020 MN Statute 609.19, Subdivision 2, Clause 1: Chauvin was accused/convicted of causing Floyd'd death while committing felony assault, constituting 2nd-degree murder in MN. Likewise, 3rd-degree murder in MN is stipulated when death follows "an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life".

2020 MN Statute 609.205, Clause 1: Chauvin was accused/convicted of causing Floyd's death via culpable negligence -- "creating an unreasonable risk, and consciously [taking] chances causing death or great bodily harm to another", constituting 2nd-degree manslaughter in MN.

Nothing says that these charges are mutually exclusive, and one can see that the statutes overlap in their applicability to Floyd's death. I presume the overlapping is acknowledged by applying concurrent sentences, rather than cumulative ones.
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