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2020-10-16 10:38 by Karl Denninger
in Covid-19 , 803 references Ignore this thread
We Deserve To Die
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The title sounds pretty awful, but really, if you want to know where the fault is when it comes to Covid19, get up and go look in the mirror.

We're nearly nine months into this, and really, closer to ten.  We ignored the first month because we felt like it.  And our culpability goes back even further, because the evidence is very strong that we were funding the Wuhan lab, and we were not keeping any sort of surveillance over in China with regard to what was going on with our money.

You can stop the bull**** about China being a sovereign and thus entitled to do whatever it wants whenever you're tired of dying.  Which, apparently, we aren't and haven't been.  After all we're still perfectly ok with lithium being mined and processed over there in open leech pits, which is the only economically-viable way to process it, and which inevitably poisons both the air and ground (and thus water.)  We ban the trade in ivory from elephant tusks but not the mass destruction of land and people "required" to build a Tesla.

So save me the pearl-clutching because it's just getting started -- and so am I.

If you're one of those pearl-clutching *******s just stop reading now because you're going to be really pissed off by the time you're done with this article.

Notice how the Healthy At Any Size idiots have shut up of late?  Gee, I wonder why?

Myth: HAES is anti-weight loss. The fact is that while a HAES approach does not support the intentional pursuit of weight loss, because obsessing over weight often causes more harm than good, it views weight loss itself as neither good nor bad.

Well that's a scientific lie and you just got it shoved in your face.  Instead of dying slowly and painfully over decades from progressive disease weight 300+lbs has a habit of leading to your immediate extinguishment if you get Covid19.

For how many years has this tripe been pushed and how many people are dead as a consequence?

What did I say back in February?  That this disease is spread in scat.  We knew this because of two outbreaks in the Far East; one in China and one in Hong Kong, both of which had no other plausible explanation.  Then they found the virus in scat but ignored it in the wider world.  Then a study was done attempting to find virus in an isolation ward where Covid patients were and the contamination was found in the bathroom but not the patient rooms.  Then, just recently, a paper was published showing ten times the virus concentration in patient bathrooms over the rest of the area where they were. 

May I remind everyone that you spend a hell of lot less time in the toilet than the rest of your room when in the hospital - or anywhere else?  So if the contamination is 10x higher when you spend a tiny fraction of your time in there what is the distribution of contamination emission from you, the infected person, via the various routes over time?  Do you need "complex math" and "big, expensive medical degrees" to figure this out?

We are 3/4 of a year into this bug, we knew in February that fecal contamination was a material part of how it was spread and shed from people and we've lied to the public about it for the entire ****ing time.  I pointed out that "White man sanitation good" was likely to be material.  Well, it's only material and only attenuates the spread if you pay attention to it and model public policy on that basis.  We did not and that was malicious so as to be able to call health-care workers "heroes" and to not impugn certain other ethnic groups.

This in turn has allowed everyone and their ******ned brother to scream about masks when we also know that 40 years of hard science in the form of controlled trials says they don't work.  The so-called "risk reduction" studies that have been published are outright frauds; they cite other work in their claim about interdicting particles from a positive but asymptomatic carrier (on the presumption that only a monster would intentionally infect others) but exactly zero of the previous work shows efficiency for cloth masking of any sort and the controlled trial body of evidence shows that surgical masks are worthless as well.  This leaves respirators, which are not masks.  They work -- but they're expensive, must be fit-tested and not one person in ten can or will wear and fit them properly never mind the expense and limited supply.

Let me quote from that latter article:

"This review suggests very few infectivity of the air around covid-19 patients. We find RNA but not viable virus.

Only 1.5% of samples of air less than 3' away from the person with the disease tested positive and what they found was mostly RNA but not viable virus particles.

If the virus is not viable it cannot infect anyone.  These are hospitalized patients, not asymptomatic or mild disease suffers.  By definition they got it bad or they wouldn't be there.  This is proof that masks are worthless as source control since there is no source to control!

But in patient toilets the rate of positive samples was 23.8%, or roughly fifteen times as likely.  The median concentrations in toilets were ten times as high as those in patient rooms.

They also found plenty of RNA in staff and public hallways -- but guess where the source is if you can't find it around the person who is infected themselves?  Well, duh.  It's in the ****ing ****ter, jackass.

In other words we pushed a knowingly worthless set of policies -- and we're still doing it today.

We're killing people with this bull**** and mask mandates make it worse rather than better.

Why?  Because transport matters.  If you collect something and then move it from where it was you dramatically increase the number of people who can get infected.  This is fundamentally unsound and is why "mask orders" in the general public are flat-out bat**** crazy.  We've known masks in the general public do not work since the flu pandemic of 1918 when the places that put mask orders in place got no results in suppressing the spread of the bug.  Why?  Because any potential "benefit" from the mask is offset by inevitable transport of viral material from one place to another, thereby multiplying the potential number of infected people.  With a bug that is fecally transmissible if the bug is aerosolized out of feces (not just transmitted by contact) you've really screwed the pooch in that you're now taking the risk of exposure from the person who uses the restroom and expanded it to anyone who gets anywhere near their mask for the next several hours, especially if someone has it on and is blowing air through the wrong way liberating virus from the outside surface with each breath.  Do remember that a mask is a filter and if you took your furnace filter and put it in backwards all of the dust, pollen and other material it collected would be immediately distributed into your house!  What do you think happens if you breathe in via a mask, collect some virus on the outside surface and then exhale blowing said collected material that fails to "stick" to the surface back into the air in part?  If you collected the virus in a restroom and then leave the restroom with the mask on your face you are distributing that virus to everyone who gets anywhere near you outside of the infectious environment!  The more area you cover after it gets contaminated the worse the problem gets.

Remember that the droplet is not the infectious part -- the droplet is a carrier of the infectious part.  When it evaporates the infectious part is still there, it is a fraction of a micron in size and is liberated from the carrying water droplet.  In other words you are transporting that infectious agent around and as the droplet evaporates you are liberating it into the environment wherever you are at the time.  Until the virus itself is destabilized, which occurs over time and especially with UV exposure or exposure to high or low-pH environments (which is why soap works) it remains infectious.

Such a mandate is criminally insane as it is guaranteed to infect people.

Our government has literally turned every person adhering to such a mandate into Typhoid Mary; any virus you pick up from some random place or encounter you are now being forced to transport said bug under "authority of law" to other places and people, distributing it to them.

The government officials passing such mandates are homicidal maniacs and every one of them deserves the Federal needle.

So what mitigations could we adopt?

I pointed them out months ago.  First, temperature checks are imperfect but have no downside.  Since viral replication is exponential barring those with a fever from indoor locations would help; that is, if you have a fever you likely have 10, 100, 1,000 or even more times as much viral load as someone who does not.  Further, and perhaps most-importantly, those who are on the lowest rungs of the economic ladder are those who will go to work even knowing they feel "off" or even if febrile; this isn't because they're trying to kill people, it's because they can't afford not to and are trying not to kill themselves through starvation or rendering themselves homeless.  I can hardly blame someone who makes $10/hour for going to work if they're not feeling 100%.  But what we can do is check everyone at the door before they come to work every time.  It's fast, it's cheap, it keeps no records, it's not obtrusive and it might suppress flu transmission too, and thus is a general, durable public positive.

We haven't done it yet it is far more likely to help than a mask mandate.

Second, we can change building codes so that on any remodel or new construction in a public building the sinks have to go outside the restrooms.  In addition the faucet, soap and paper towel dispensers must be touchless and maintained.  There is a huge problem with public restrooms and people not washing their hands and further, contamination of the sinks and other areas is nearly universal.  Reducing the risk of the person re-contaminating themselves (e.g. by having to open the door after washing one's hands) will make a significant difference.  So will banning those damned air dryers that blow whatever is on your hands all over the place.

While we're at it we should materially increase ventilation requirements in public restrooms with ceiling to floor airflow patterns.  That, again, is a "remodel or new construction" thing but keeping fecally-liberated aerosols near the floor and away from your mouth and nose, and getting them out of the damn room will make quite a difference -- never mind getting rid of the nasty smell.  Oh, incidentally, I'll lay a bet in any amount you care to lose that if the virus is in feces it is also in farts.  Does your face diaper prevent you from smelling a fart?  How about your pants and underwear (a multi-layer "cloth mask" over your *******)?

Are you really that stupid or do you just play dumb when out in public?

Further, in high-density places (e.g. bars and restaurants) place a camera pointing at said sink with the monitor where people can see it, such as over the bar.  This is aimed at promoting compliance with use of said sink by the very simple and effective mechanism of public shaming.  It costs nothing to do this on a remodel or new construction and I've not seen one single report of it being implemented anywhere across the United States.  While it will come too late for Covid19, it will certainly not be too late for the next bug, nor for the seasonal flu every year hereafter.

When you get down to it, viruses that infect the respiratory tract are never going away.  Ever.  Reduction in transmission on an incremental basis sounds good but is it?  Not necessarily.  Your immune system functions by continual use and cross-reactivity means that the more use you get the higher the odds you have some level of existing immune recognition to a novel disease.

This in turn means that attempting to live "in a bubble" is very bad because doing so means that cross-reactivity will likely be absent.  And do not kid yourself folks -- vaccination is not a replacement for natural exposure.  It never has been and never will be.  Man is not smarter than God (or Darwin, if you prefer.)  Black people, for example, are much more-likely to have sickle-cell disease than whites.  Why?  Because sickle-cell disease confers partial protection against malaria.  This doesn't mean you want sickle-cell disease, of course but it does point out that nature finds a way.  Prior to "modern medicine" the average life expectancy of a European white person who traveled to sub-Saharan Africa was six months.  Why?  Because the endemic diseases there were various forms of pestilence that no white person had any innate immunity to and thus you'd get one or more of them and die.

Similarly we knew natural protection over time from prior exposure and heredity existed over 200 years ago.  White European people had about a 30% fatality rate if they got smallpox, which is awful.  But Native Americans were laid waste by the same disease; their fatality rate was estimated at 90-95%!  Why?  Because other related diseases were endemic on the European continent but unheard-of on the North American one.  Over tens of thousands of years this produced innate immunity to a novel virus they had not been exposed to.  It was not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it sure as hell beat a near-certain death sentence.

We now have additional evidence that flu vaccination in childhood causes harm down the road.  Specifically, it can increase by material amounts your risk of getting the flu when you're old.  That's very bad because as with Covid old people are killed by the flu as well. Note that this study came out in 2006 and has been ignored and now we're all being told "get your flu shot!"  Annual "preventative" flu vaccines in healthy children produce interference over time and when said child gets to be 70 it makes them more-likely to get the flu and potentially die from it.  This is just great from the standpoint of the medical profession since the more-sick you get and the more shots you need to try to ward that off the more money they make.

That death is an inconvenient side effect is obviously of no concern to them.

The evidence is very strong that coercive policies when it comes to Covid have a cumulative and deadly effect on outcomes.  Sweden continues to see "cases"; in fact they're now at about 1,000 a day, and have roughly tripled since August.  Big shock?  No.  It's getting colder.  Likewise we're seeing more "cases" in the northern states and that will spread southward as the months go on into winter.  Viral transmission activity increases in the colder months.  Why?  Absolute humidity falls which liberates virus from drops that will otherwise harmlessly fall to the floor and the lower the absolute humidity the more likely that such a particle will be liberated and not accumulated and fall out of suspension.  It's physics and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.  In addition we know that Vitamin D production by humans, which occurs by exposure to the sun, is attenuated when insolation is less and people spend more time indoors.  We knew that vitamin D had a link to viral infection outcomes over a hundred years ago; those Spanish Flu patients placed outdoors during the day did better than those kept inside irrespective of whether windows were opened, etc.  We now know why.  There is also a crazy-high correlation (which does not prove causation but suggests a link) between serum Vitamin D levels and Covid outcomes.  Does this mean you should willy-nilly gobble Vitamin D supplements?  Probably not; you can overdo it and the consequences of doing so are quite severe.  But it is something to be mindful of.

But Sweden, which enacted basically no coercive policies at all, is not seeing any rise in deaths despite lots of new "infections."  In other words in Sweden Covid19 has become an endemic head cold.  Who the hell cares about a head cold?

Has anyone else had that success?  Oh hell no.  And while Sweden says 5,900 people died out of 10 million, which sounds awful, roughly half of those were in nursing homes where Sweden, like everyone else, failed to stop the virus from penetrating.  They, like us, paid no attention to fecal transmission and the fact of the matter is that a huge percentage of people in nursing homes (about 40%) are incontinent.

Then look at Japan.  Rather than adopt the stupidity of others they went with the science.  Rather than trace "contacts" for a case they worked to trace backward to the source.  Why?  Because they paid attention to the fact that this bug is behaving in a stochastic manner -- that is, it is not deterministic.  That implies that most people do not give it to anyone else while a few people give it to a lot of others.  Chasing those who statistically are unlikely to pass it on is stupid.  If you focus your resource instead on where it came from you find the people who are transmitting it and can isolate them.  Doing this requires near-immediate testing results, however, which conflicts with making a lot of money and screaming "test-test-test!"  We'll see how this turns out for them over time, but so far it looks pretty good.  Oh by the way, they did not enforce mandates of any substance, just as Sweden did not.

The difference in outcomes between approaches is stark.  Many nations including ours tried to claim that mask orders and such would stop the virus.  Spain and the UK, among others, jumped up and down about how they'd "won."  Uh, not so fast.  As in the US they're now getting a second spike despite the orders and death is coming with it.  Sweden, which decided to tell their population to act like adults and use their heads but refused to implement any sort of coercive measures of note is now back to normal.  Oh sure, people are getting it -- but it's not killing them.  Why not?  Because the people who are getting it and who got it in the first place were largely those it could not significantly harm and this protects the most-vulnerable who remain because transmission is inhibited.  Again, the actually ill has a viral load many times that of someone who has an asymptomatic infection.  Which person is more-likely to give it to others, in what volume are they likely to transmit it and what are the odds it hits someone it can kill?

Never mind that cross-reactivity means you want to infect people with head colds caused by other coronaviruses.  

Sweden won and we lost.  We must immediately change our policies; we knew this in May and June but nobody would listen and they were all pointing to Sweden as a failure.  Those who did so have blood on their hands as it is now proved they were wrong and Sweden was right.

But -- we also must cut the bull**** when it comes to personal responsibility and outcomes.  There is zero moral, ethical or legal justification for what we're doing now.

Nobody has a duty whether grounded in morals, ethics or the law to do a damn thing to protect you if you, as a sane adult, refuse to protect yourself.  The facts are that outcomes with Covid infections vary by a factor of well more than 100 times based on factors that are, in the 90th percentile, a function of personal choice.

New York has shown that even if you're extremely old, that is, over 75, unless you have one or more of the comorbid "nasty" conditions the odds of you being killed by Covid are nearly zero.  A literal four people over 75 without any of those conditions in New York have died.  FOUR!

On the other hand 8,190 people with those conditions in that same age bracket have expired.

The odds ratios across all age groups are at least 10:1 and in the case of being elderly it's over 1,000:1!

While not every one of those conditions is a function of personal choice most are.  Obesity and Type II diabetes are the most-outrageous of them but hardly the only examples.  Cardiac and chronic lung diseases are also largely lifestyle-choice mediated things.  Do some people have these conditions without personal choice entering into it?  Certainly.  But the overwhelming majority of said persons are dead because they decided, over the space of years or even decades, to do unhealthy things on purpose and now we're told that all of us most "protect them."

In a word, NO.

Why not?

Because if I choose to cave dive and die it's my ass and my choice.  If I choose to drink alcohol and as a result I suffer liver damage and die that is also my choice and my ass.  If I choose to smoke, same deal.  If I choose to skydive, pull the cord and nothing happens, oops -- my ass, my choice (let's hope the reserve works but if not, well, the bounce is mine.)  If I choose to eat to excess, again, my choice and my ass.  Ditto if I let my cardiac and aerobic condition deteriorate and do nothing about it.

None of this is your problem.  If it makes me more susceptible to the bad effects of a disease such that I'm 10 or more times likely to die then that's my problem, not yours.  You owe me nothing in that regard.  You most-certainly do not have an obligation to take any sort of "mitigating steps" or alter your behavior in any way so I don't have to pay the check after I order all that booze, smoke all those cigs and sit in front of the TV for decades wolfing down the potato chips and candy!

No, no and **** you no.

And in terms of public policy the idea that it is hate speech or a microaggression to call out someone who is in fact doing these things is giving license to them committing slow suicide!  Well, this time it wasn't so slow was it?  So what?  Their ass, their choice but perhaps if people did point it out they might have changed their minds and their behavior.  Oh sure, many if not most would have "felt bad" and maybe even added depression to their maladies but how many of those who weighed 300+ pounds, had they taken **** for it from their doctors, friends, family and random people on the street decided to do something about it 10 years ago?

Not all of them, that's for sure.

But every one of the people who would have is one that would be alive today, and is dead.

Put that in your Hunter Biden branded crack pipe and smoke it, America.

And face the facts: This bug is in feces, we've known it since February, the distribution and facts of spread favor that method of transmission and masks by definition will make the spread of such a bug worse in virtually every case because they will transport the virus and thus result in more people being exposed.

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Daedwards
Posts: 22
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So is this the link between Scatology and Eschatology?
Greenacr
Posts: 130
Incept: 2016-03-15

Northern Ohio
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"masks by definition will make the spread of such a bug worse in virtually every case because they will transport the virus and thus result in more people being exposed."

Karl - I would think that masks also make individual exposures worse due to creating a higher concentration of the virus due to it being reinhaled from the mask.

I also have read that bacterial pneumonia is on the rise. Makes sense from a mask standpoint as bugs like warm, moist surfaces to breed like you find in a mask. Combine that most folks are probably not disinfecting their masks and wearing them over and over and you have a recipe for lots of disease.



Datawrangler
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Here's a chart with a visual depiction of COVID-19 deaths compared to changes in historical Influenza/Pneumonia deaths and humidity. My forecast is for the blizzard of virus fear porn to continue unabated and either increase or decrease after 2 Nov.
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Tickerguy
Posts: 168086
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Yes @Datawrangler, except that influenza typically does not express in feces. It thus follows the traditional model of inverse absolute humidity. This bug does not; it shows stochastic distribution and remains quite infectious outside of absolute humidity signals.

Like, for example, norovirus which circulates plenty well on a cruise ship in the middle of the Caribbean!

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Burya_rubenstein
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Speaing as someone who really doesn't like the idea of eating poo... I like the bathroom sinks better where they are.

I do recognize the need to somehow get everyone to wash their hands and do it right. (The blow drier is only supposed to be used AFTER rinsing, which is supposed to be done AFTER disposing of the Germs by means of soap.) Could we leave the sinks where they are and still point cameras at them to show people washing their hands or meglecting to?

And while on the subject, may I issue a complaint decades after the fact: NONE of the bathrooms in any of the K-12 schools I went to had soap!

Finally, I've wondered of late if the almost universal rule to cover ones private parts started out not so much anti-sex but anti-poo-all-over-the-place?
Tickerguy
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@Burya_rubenstein - If you're interested in public health the sink HAS TO COME OUT OF THE BATHROOM.

What is your objection to the sink being outside of the restroom? The door is going to INEVITABLY be contaminated, which is a large part of the problem.

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Flyanddive
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Far UV lights should be mandated in every bathroom, that is a very cheap change, and will end the pandemic.

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"I've seen people go into real poverty trying to pretend to be rich."
Step55
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Connecticut - Massachusetts
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After reading your latest brilliant assessment I wondered if those who pumped septic tanks were of increased risk.

Instead I found this little nugget in a download pdf file of the WHO --

People with suspected or confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection should be provided with their own toilet (either a flush or dry toilet). Where this is not possible, patients sharing the same ward should have access to toilets that are not used by patients in other wards. Each toilet cubicle should have a door that closes. Flush toilets should operate properly and have functioning drain traps. The toilet should be flushed with the lid down to prevent droplet splatter and aerosol clouds.(39) If it is not possible to provide separate toilets for COVID-19 patients, then the toilets they share with other non-COVID19 patients should be cleaned and disinfected more regularly (e.g. at least twice daily by a trained cleaner wearing PPEimpermeable gown, or if not available, an apron, heavy-duty gloves, boots, mask and googles or a face shield). Health-care staff should have access to toilet facilities that are separate from those used by patients.

Download found here https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/....

Tickerguy
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That's not a terrible idea in public restrooms. In reasonable exposures (which you'd be subject to) it's safe for both skin and eyes and it is virus-inactivating.

The problem is that you need very good control over the emitted wavelengths, as the somewhat-longer wavelength stuff will do SEVERE eye and skin damage. The latter is ok in an air handler, for example, but definitely NOT where you might be directly exposed to it, or where "shine" exposure is a potential issue.

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Mannfm11
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DFW, Tx
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This virus has been used to destroy Trump and nothing else. Trump was taking down the US New World order game and the entire establishment aligned to destroy him with this disease. Outside of Sweden, he is the only prime voice in the Western world that has said to open up and get back to work and living.

If Trump had said, go back to living and watch the bathrooms, 5000 news outlets would have produced fact checking that denied the idea. They would have called him anti science. Today, he faces the mask bull**** every time he is put in front of a left media person. Biden is using the Trump response to the virus as a weapon. Outside of his actions to provide material, the response has largely been by the states. The Ivory halls of the bureaucracies have been involved and they want their importance and were totally unprepared and have been responsible for the nonsense we have been fed. Disagree, the cry is you aren't a scientist. Fauci has told us everything under the sun contradictory. Who the hell made this idiot king?

You might recall I posted the response of a male nurse I have competed with in fantasy sports for 15 year about the fecal transmission. He was at the main Detroit public hospital and denied there was any warning about feces as a means of transmission. He had a position, not a job, in the hospital, so he would have known. Why did the CDC suppress this main form of transmission? Was it the same reason Cuomo put people in nursing homes, to create terror and a death toll?

If Biden wins the election, he will inherit a situation where the disease has largely resolved itself and I'm sure he will lock down and claim victory, creating more fake science. He will also succeed in creating an economic emergency they will use to destroy the free market system that remains and turn the entire economy over to oligarchs. Remember, I believe Trump knows things he isn't allowed to say and only hint. This is a Democratic Party monster and likely they would have allowed it to propagate, regardless of whatever solution we had chosen. People are going to die is their motto for everything.

Wash your hands was the original motto and the main one that would have stopped the spread of the virus. You know, it might have been stopped in Japan because the spreaders were people who didn't wash their hands and they found them and the public in general followed that ideal religiously in the first place. I have never been a big handwasher myself, until this virus, which may be why I don't catch many winter diseases. A public bathroom has become a radioactive place since then. Last Friday I was in McKinney and had to use a public bathroom or crap in my pants. While washing my hands I noted a guy coming out of the other stall and walking right out the door. I don't spend a lot of time on the crapper, generally, especially in that situation. The guy that didn't wash his hands was there when I got there and there when I was done. As a result, I don't touch any more surfaces than I have to and I hold the paper to grab the door handle on exit.

So we have 2 cases here. The naturally immune and the typhoid Mary's. The case load in Collin County is about half the percentage of the population as adjoining Dallas County. Dallas County reports just short of 88,000 cases out of a 2.6 million population, about 3.4%. It is a Democrat County with a Soros DA. Collin County, 16,500 out of 1 million, about 1.65% and half the Dallas County infection rate. The death rates are also along the same lines, roughly 2% for Dallas County and about 1% of cases for Collin County. Collin County is at herd immunity and Dallas County is well beyond it. The number of people tested in Dallas County as a percentage is only marginally higher than Collin County, the positive rate being about 1/2 in Collin County what it is in Dallas County. Are they fudging the numbers, by running the tests? From what I understand, the test is faulty in that you can get anyone to be positive, if you run the test long enough, meaning they can inflate the death toll.

The United States isn't Japan and it isn't Europe. It is a 3 million square mile area where truckers move freight long distances. Who lives out of public bathrooms? I doubt contact tracing would have ever worked for that one reason. When you add in airline travel, a case in Los Angeles can spread across the country in a matter of weeks, especially if the case happens to be an airline employee or a trucker. You aren't trying to track down someone in a neighborhood, but someone who has moved across the world. It might be easy to ask a person that doesn't move much who they contacted, but asking who came into contact with an infected trucker or airline employee is another factor.

There is no greater evidence the virus wasn't airborne, in general than the airline industry. We would have had an immediate outbreak nationwide, if this had been the case, namely because the virus came in on an airplane, most likely and it would have rapidly spread. Cases would have been in the millions in a matter of weeks. There were 5 million people who went through DFW airport in January and February and contact with the initial infected would have been nationwide in a matter of days. There would have been an infection for about every flight attendant on the planes with an infected, if the 6 foot nonsense was real.

More on Texas. The highest concentration of bad cases is in the Hispanic population. 56.1% of the deaths are Hispanic. The border, the major urban counties and Corpus Christie are the main places of high death to population. My suspicion is they can test about any corpse they want positive. Transmission over the border is clearly a problem. Dirty hands and living conditions are a problem too.

What isn't being put out there is as we go forward, the chances the virus is actually going to make you extremely sick or kill you is diminished. Treatments are better and those that are susceptible are a lesser portion of the population. We can't win fighting the last war. The CDC finally put out something about fecal transmission, 9 months late, if they were planning on stopping the spread instead of destroying the country.

My theory they ran this entire operation to get Trump wasn't any less absurd than the censoring of Biden corruption. We, who have cared, have known of this for over a year and the Democrats nominated him to avoid investigation of said corruption. It is much broader than the Biden family and probably goes through Congress, the State Department and the NSA, along with many oligarchs. Something this obvious being ignored is much more dire than the failure to stop a virus that was likely not going to be stopped. So, we are going to elect a mafia boss President and replace him with a communist?


Texas CV19 Stats

https://txdshs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsd....

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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith

Reason: Correct double T at bottom above link
Mannfm11
Posts: 6617
Incept: 2009-02-28

DFW, Tx
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Just dispensing Lysol spray on a timely basis would help public bathrooms. It might be a little hazardous to breathe, but it would check the virus. As far as bathrooms for the infected? They should stay home and take the HCQ mix. I hear nonsense from hospital workers HCQ doesn't work, but they aren't dealing with non progressed cases. That is like saying blood transfusions don't work after the patient has bled to death.

I think we are beyond needing to hide from this bull**** and accept we are either going to get it or we have some kind of immunity and choose our actions accordingly. I tell people to beware of the bathrooms, masks are nonsense and start living.

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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Loonster
Posts: 94
Incept: 2012-10-28

West Michigan
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Replace the ****ter dividers with floor to ceiling walls. Add exhaust fan in each ****ter area. Add small vent in door. Done.
Tickerguy
Posts: 168086
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Doesn't help as soon as you wipe.

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Expat_tom
Posts: 42
Incept: 2020-07-06

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There's been several studies showing new UV lighting systems that have the equivalent antimicrobial properties as mercury or UV sterilization, but have no damage to the skin or retina, I believe it was long UVB systems that have been FDA approved for use in hospitals in common areas and showed a dramatic reduction of all forms of fungal bacterial and viral activity when exposed.

Simply installing those lighting systems in bathrooms will go a long way to addressing the issues, no re-pumbling or venting required.

Capcomp
Posts: 40
Incept: 2009-09-10

Virginia
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OT - Treasury released the September 2020 report, https://fiscal.treasury.gov/files/report....

3.132T deficit on FY 2020.
Burya_rubenstein
Posts: 1805
Incept: 2007-08-08

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My objection is having to handle clothing with contaminant hands. This is already a problem in multi-stall bathrooms, which I handle (when I absolutely have to crap in one) by pulling my clothing up with my pinkie fingers, by the belt loops, then shuffling over to a sink to wash, then going back into a stall and putting the clothing on right. This would be more difficult to handle with external sinks, though I suppose I could come up with something.

It's occurred to me now to ask for something else: let bathroom doors open outward, and able to be pushed open with ones foot. That way, even if someone opens one while contaminant (and someone will, especially if the sinks are outside of it), those wishing to avoid the contamination can do so. (Meijer supermarket bathroom doors already open outward and have done so for almost forever.)
Twainfan2
Posts: 198
Incept: 2018-12-04

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@capcom debt to penny site shows over 4.1 trillion between oct 1 of 2019?and sept 30th of 2020

Gonewest
Posts: 709
Incept: 2015-02-26

PacificNW
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The French company who invented the self-cleaning toilet is starting to look a bit prescient now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanisette

Moving the sinks seems like a good idea for new construction/remodels. But that's not going to solve the vast majority of the problem as is pointed out in this thread and others.

We're not going to stop this bug and we don't have to. The death rate is simply not high enough and will not justify extraordinary actions and expense.
Mightymosin
Posts: 6
Incept: 2020-04-01

California
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I have to say that I've really come to appreciate my bidet toilet seat and it was worth dragging the electrical down the wall for it.

I feel like a savage when I have to use a toilet that isn't bidet equipped.
Eleua
Posts: 16820
Incept: 2007-07-05
A True American Patriot!
N 47.72/ W 122.55
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The original "two weeks to slow the spread" never, ever had as a goal that they would prevent people from becoming sick. No, the original intent was to spread the spike over a longer time to allow the hospitals to stay up with the demand.

Everyone was going to get sick - just over a longer time.

It wasn't until someone saw that people can be moved easily by the unknowns surrounding this virus that we morphed to the impossibility of keeping people from getting sick. The latter strategy allows for an almost interminable length of tyrannical actions, and if the Dems are in power, then all the better.

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Diversity + proximity = WAR
Until bullets fly and people die, nothing is going to change.
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Tickerguy
Posts: 168086
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Putting UV in will attenuate fecal aerosols but does not for surface contamination unless you can reasonably irradiate all the surfaces, and you can't.

That's one of the things that makes fecal transmission so damnably hard to control. The only rationally effective measure is to become militant about hand-washing and move the washing location to OUTSIDE of where the generation of contamination occurs -- but just outside -- and use some sort of enforcement of its use. Public shaming is the best option available.

But this is not practical to do on an immediate basis. It would be valuable on a FORWARD basis though for new construction and remodels, since a huge number of other bugs, especially in hospitality businesses (e.g. food and drinking places) are transmitted this way and are a large element of illness caused through same. Further, on a forward basis it has a zero cost compared with what is being done now. Forced retrofits are probitively expensive but we should have done this decades ago.

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Tritumi
Posts: 264
Incept: 2008-11-29

tokyo
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Thank you for your comments on Japan.

As I am out and about daily in public buildings and parks i Tokyo I can report authoritatively on public restrooms. As Karl notes, touchless faucets and touchless soap dispensers dominate. ALL forced air hand driers have been sealed or otherwise disabled.

Alcohol dispensers for hand disinfecting are everywhere.

There have been no mask mandates as such but public health awareness campaigns stress masks as part of the three necessary practices along with hand washing and social distancing. I wear a mask as seldom as possible, mainly in public transport or shopping. I do get looks from some mostly older people but I am greybearded myself and being a foreigner would get looks anyway no doubt. Mask wearing is normal in heavy pollen and 'flu season among the susceptible. Now, while there is no mandate, most people simply wear them as a part of the norm.

The seven day moving average for new infections has held fairly steady and deaths are very low. We have just had our 'flu shots, free this year.
Invisiblesun
Posts: 101
Incept: 2020-04-08

Maryland
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Karl,

Awesome work, as usual.

What do you make of the observation that influenza doesn't exist in 2020? A variety of theories are being argued such as Covid mitigations stop the flu - illogical in my opinion, or that everyone is testing for Covid and finding Covid everywhere so the flu is just not being registered.

How about the theory that the immune response to Covid squashes the flu bug? The follow-up question then is this a natural or man-made inoculation?

What would be better than a inoculating virus? And it almost works! Problem is that in a low percentage of people it creates a deadly immune reaction. Oops.

It is logical to believe the idea of an innoculating virus is being tried. Did this research take place at the Wuhan lab? So then a researcher gets infected and takes the germ into the public. At first this is seen as a fortunate failure - an excuse to see if the theory works. But then a small subset of people start dying in ways that shouldn't happen - the Princess ship being the prime example.

Then what? If the dots are followed Fauci and his NIH pharma clients get nailed. Switch to Plan B and manufacture a pandemic and sell the story the solution is a vaccine.

Chromehill
Posts: 73
Incept: 2010-03-03

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I visited the Gettysburg Brewing Company this summer, they had foot pulls on bathroom doors. You could open the door after washing your hands using your foot. That should be added to building code for all buildings with public access or used as a business.

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"Power, like the reproductive muscle, longs to be exercised, often without judgement or right" - Gerry Spence
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