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2019-09-11 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Editorial , 220 references Ignore this thread
9/11 Once Again...
[Comments enabled]

18 years on we're still infatuated with conspiracy theories.

For what purpose?

Have you done anything about it yourself?  Shown up in DC with a sign and waved it?  No?  Nothing more-forceful either?  Of course not.

Well then, so what?

It's not like you need to go as far as a conspiracy theory to demand changes.  Like, for example, the fact that most of the hijackers, despite not being citizens or lawful permanent residents, had US driver licenses issued by Governor Bush of Florida.  That's the credential they used to board the aircraft.  That son-of-a-bitch is the individual who could have single-handed prevented the attacks had he refused to issue credentials to other than lawful permanent residents or citizens. Today, he bitches about people being pissed off at the "security theater" he indirectly created through his willful and intentional issuance of those credentials.  Indeed Bush, that son of a bitch, subsequently ran for President and nobody cared.  But for that ********** and every governor and President since that has refused to remove immediately all who overstay visas or are otherwise here illegally...... there would have been no attack at all.  It's not like we haven't had eight rapes from illegal invaders in one county of Maryland of late, have we (it was seven until yesterday)?  Oh wait.

Or the fact that Saudi Arabia was the source of most of the hijackers -- and the money.  Have they been sanctioned or even simply been forced to sell oil under free-market principles by revoking OPEC's protection from 15 USC Chapter 1?  No.  Instead in the intervening 18 years we've given them even more money and more arms.

How about our FBI?  You know, the same FBI that tried to overturn a Presidential election after 2016?  Did anyone ever go to prison as an accessory before the fact for their either grossly negligent -- or even willful -- failure to investigate reported hinky goings on before the attacks that were reported to them?  An investigation that, had it been conducted, would have disclosed the hijackers and, given that they had expired credentials to be in the US, was cause for an arrest that would have disrupted the attacks!

I could literally go on for hours.

But what's the point in doing so?

Boobus Americanus will instead rant and rave like madmen and women about various conspiracies with regard to the Towers, or claim that there was no plane at the Pentagon at all -- it was a missile (never mind that means there's has to have been a large civilian aircraft full of people that literally disappeared without a trace on that day.)

Meh, says I.

See, conspiracy theories mean you don't have to get off your ass either.  After all you can point to the "conspiracy" and since it's a nameless, faceless thing in which nobody is identified you never have a target to direct your ire at.

If you hold former Governor Bush accountable, or the FBI, or Saudi Arabia then you both have a target and some quite-effective means of redress available to you.  Some of those means are lawful and either legal or political, and some are not -- but all of them have an actual individual, nation or organization to aim them at who actually deserve it.

As long as you instead name it a faceless "conspiracy" well, then you can just caterwaul on and do nothing.

Which is, when you get down to it, all we're good for these days in the United States -- isn't it?

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Bearcubs9497
Posts: 33
Incept: 2017-02-01

Huntsville, AL
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you're right.

and there are too few to make any difference (other than interesting news copy).
Wonderdawg
Posts: 163
Incept: 2010-01-23

Southeast USA
Banned
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Just on the face of it, the official government story of what happened on 9/11 is ludicrous. The video of the towers, especially building 7, show a text book demolition. There is no possible way those planes caused those towers to collapse into their own footprints. What have I done about it? Nothing, but it changed the way I view EVERYTHING about our government and the media.
Click
Posts: 572
Incept: 2017-06-26

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I am a native New Yorker, and I wouldn't get off my ass and get the gun out to fight in behalf of America any more than I would for a country on the other side of the world like schmuck-filled Australia.

America is full of bogans, galahs, drongos and dropkicks. Why would I waste my gunpowder on a people (or their leaders) who aren't worth the powder to blow them to hell?

I hope Mother Nature takes care of the problem soon enough. Really, She is the only One who can fix things now...

Please, please, oh great and powerful Mother Nature: I implore You to show mankind your great power and prove "the conspiracy theories" as true by sending Nibiru on collision course with the Sun and spectacularly turning the lights out.
Mangymutt
Posts: 1167
Incept: 2015-05-03

Vancouver WA
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It is not that I do not care about what happened on Sept 11, 2001, the fact is I have stopped caring. Congress passed the Patriot Act in a way that made heads spin faster then being stuck in a Hooka room with 20 Rad Surfer Dudes. People joined the military in droves to fight the "enemy" - First, what enemy? Who are they? If anyone has every experienced a bar fight were a guy or a gal is trying to knock the head of another guy or gal. What started the fight? They thought the other person bumped into them. Once people commit their emotional support to a cause, reasoning be damned.

So our son's, daughters (And Chelsea Manning) went off to fight those evil bastards, lets just hope they are the right evil bastards and save our freedoms, while the evil bastards we elected in office are taking those freedoms away.

Then 2008 happened and not only were our freedoms stolen from us but so was our money. Bail out here, bail out there - Bail out for you....HAHAHAHA NO! But you did get the bill. Older folks who did everything they were told to do watched any chance of retirement crumble into it's own foot print. But that's ok,they were offered long term unemployment, and sat around for two + years as their job skills slipped away. And reentered the work force at lower pay. But at least they knew how to work. And for those who couldn't or didn't want to find a job there was a big uptick in SSDI

Younger folks were sold college, college, college and well all those old folks who couldn't retire were still in their jobs, and the application for student loan says FREE right on it. Lets go to college. And get into an unworldly amount of debt doing it.

With all those American kids going to school, all those old folks in their comfy office jobs, who is going to pick our crops. Instead of making our own children go out and work for a living, lets let illegal invaders, and rapists and murders and thieves along with their typhoid and measles into our country.

I watched the video of that silly reporter saying tower 7 had fallen, while it is clearly still up in the back ground. Only to have it actually fall into it's own foot print some time later. Conspiracy? I honestly don't know and it was around 2008 when my eyes started to open to what was actually happening within our own country that I stopped caring.

Sad, tragic, wish it would never have happened. It did though. And as a nation and people we are fatter, slower, poorer, less skilled and no "safer" (Whatever the **** that word means) for it.

But we certainly kicked some Taliban ass, oh wait ISIS ass, no it was Sheite ass, Oh who cares, America went over their and kicked ass. And that is what matter.

smiley

Tripseven
Posts: 142
Incept: 2012-04-26

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Don't worry...Trumpty dumpty will be releasing the "28 missing pages" soon /s

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Please God, take it all away...we don't deserve what we have!

"I find medicine is the best of all trades, because whether you do any good or not, you still get your money." -Moliere "A Physician in Spite of Himself" 1664
Aztrader
Posts: 8422
Incept: 2007-09-10

Scottsdale, AZ
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We all know that what happened on 9/11 is suspect, but why bother. If you even tend to mention anything today that disagrees with the governments BS, then you will be censored. Wait until these Nazi's impose red flag laws and go after anyone that disagrees with them.
Don't know what will set off the first real shot that means something, but it seems to get closer every day.
Tickerguy
Posts: 158977
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@Wonderdawg - Have you ever done ONE HOUR of study as to what it takes to SET UP a controlled demolition? The amount of explosives required? The wiring and control systems for it, all of which has to be placed because the sequence has to be EXACT in both timing and numerical sequence for it to work? The removal of insulation from the beams (which would otherwise prevent a linear shaped charge from working unless it is a LOT larger than otherwise required)?

The sheer amount of preparatory work for such a thing in an UNOCCUPIED building takes weeks or MONTHS. And that's an UNOCCUPIED building, where interior walls and other obstructions (fire doors and fire walls, specifically) have to be removed because you must be able to get to the places where the charges have to go and get the initiator firing mechanisms wired, ALL OF WHICH have to work.

Doing that work in an OCCUPIED building where there are people milling around on a daily basis AND there are ordinary maintenance, security and cleaning staff doing their usual jobs yet none of them noticed anything, including the fairly heavy construction and "remodeling" work required to get the access necessary to set this up going on for MONTHS prior to the event occurred, is well into the realm of fantasy-land bull****.

And by the way if you want to see what happens when even a SMALL amount of that preparation winds up wrong look at the Pontiac Silverdome which they had to "implode" twice fairly recently because the first time around it appears some of the charges didn't fire. How'd you like to go back in there and **** with that AFTER the first sequence of charges went off AND the building is now unstable so as to effectuate the actual event? Further, if you've ever watched ANY of these you'll recognize the pattern of detonations that take place at the LOWER levels -- which are conspicuously MISSING on 9/11 despite there being THOUSANDS of cameras pointed at the structures for HOURS after the original impacts. Never mind that the PRECISE sequencing of said blasts -- not one or two, but DOZENS over the space of several seconds -- would have been captured on said videos.

Engineering failures from stressors that are MASSIVELY beyond anything modeled or planned for are not unusual. In fact, they're the usual expected outcome.

I have not gone through the Building 7 scenario in detail for the simple reason that I don't have the architectural details for it at a sufficient level of detail to be able to have any sort of confidence in whatever I might conclude. This is NOT the case for the towers themselves, where the architectural design was unique enough that the basics of its core were out in the public domain. Unlike basically every high-rise ever built the towers had a central "spindle" that took the entire load. Structurally, it looked like a stack of old 33 RPM records on a spindle. Failure of the attachments at the spindle for one floor that caused that floor to impact the one below it from that separation distance would result in an overload on the second one's attachment points of well beyond engineering tolerances and beyond that (once the second floor fails) you're into the ludicrous (e.g. 1000x or more) overload range. That I DID model. Further, there was VISIBLE buckling at the failure initiation point a couple of minutes before it came apart so that the structure of that design was critically compromised before the failure initiated is known fact. That the fire was hot enough to draw the temper on the steel beams is also established fact -- we know this because it got hot enough to melt the aluminum the planes were made of (as a stream of it, molten, was videoed running out one of the damaged corners.)

Read the FAQ's "General Rules" section -- I meant it when I wrote it originally, I meant it when the FAQ was last updated, and I'll perform as many reps of HIIT exercise as necessary on this point, even today.

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Winding it down.
Weswagner
Posts: 19
Incept: 2010-09-16

Portland, OR
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Conspiracy theories propagate because people of limited to average intelligence often prefer a world where someone is in control, even so far as to imagine a malevolent entity such as an illuminati, rather than cope with the loss of control that comes with admitting that the world is random, indifferent, and there is nothing they can do about that natural order of the universe.

It also allows them to not affect things actually within their locus of control because of the rationalizations.
Gauntlet33
Posts: 144
Incept: 2009-03-30

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HAHA!! That's too funny...Karl posts a well-written article on how being a tinhat conspiracy theorist guy is just a waste of energy, and Wonderdawg wastes no time in doing just that. Talk about asshat! :)

Karl, that was a a great chuckle for the morning, and great comeback on why it wasn't a "text book demolition"!
Click
Posts: 572
Incept: 2017-06-26

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@MangyMutt

"I have stopped caring"

No ****, me too.

Why care at this point? The way I look at it is this really isn't my country anymore. I live in a foreign country that's getting more foreign by the day.

Moreover, the eshay population bubble is only growing by leaps and bounds, so it's hopeless at this point. I use the term "eshay" as a metaphor for all of the young ****head foreign races that are flooding into America --- including the gangs from Central America.

And what about the gay ****s who can adroitly "suck a golf ball through a garden hose"? You know the crazy ****heads I'm talking about; namely, LGBTQ and company, aka, The Alphabet People.

Really, America has become a whole new country during my lifetime. They need to change the Preamble from "We the people" to "we the Alphabet People"... How do you like diversity now?

There was a time when I protested right next to Alex Jones, but that ended more than a decade ago. I still purchase his toothpaste, but that's about it.

This ain't my country, so this ain't my fight... And anybody who wants to get off their ass and get the gun out and fight for the sorry-ass Amerikan people can be...my...****ing...guest.



Jack_crabb
Posts: 6032
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Peoples' Republik of Maryland
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Sad to say, but my thinking is closer to Click's than I ever would have believed.

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Molon Labe
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Aquapura
Posts: 913
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South of Canada
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I'll admit that post 9-11-01 I've taken the red pill of enlightenment and no longer trust my gov't the same way. It wasn't the events of that day switched anything immediately but then comes the Patriot Act and a war in Iraq and TARP and so on....

We are far enough removed from 9-11 that a lot of younger adults don't even have strong memories of that day. The only world they know is our constant war/surveillance state. The military age people that I'd want at my side for an armed revolt don't even know the country that once was.
Acebarefoot
Posts: 709
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Quote:
Sad to say, but my thinking is closer to Click's than I ever would have believed.



I would have never believed 20 years ago that I would be thinking this way, either. I have family members back to the civil war who fought for this country who they would be rolling in their graves over what it is becoming now.

Budget-racer
Posts: 62
Incept: 2016-03-14

Virginia
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I'll have energy to care about any supposed deper conspiracies when we are all finished prosecuting the various open negligence, fraud, and incompetence surrounding that day and that's out in your face in broad daylight ever since and not a minute before.
Ckaminski
Posts: 5533
Incept: 2011-04-08

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The only conspiracy theory I'm willing to accept about 9/11 is that the government knew all about it and deliberately let it happen.

All the controlled demo bull**** is just that and the architects and engineers for 9/11 truth can suck my chub.

No one in history prior to 9/11 has ever seen a skyscraper fall for any other reason than controlled demolition, so no one knows one bit, other than simulations, about how it happens in reality.
Tsherry
Posts: 2035
Incept: 2008-12-09

Spokane WA
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I've thought that people created the conspiracy theories because they cannot accept that a moderately organized set of second or third worlders could wreak havoc while operating not only in the open, but with the full but uncoordinated knowledge of the powers that be, and then TPTB go way out of their way to evacuate their "friends" from the same ****hole that just killed three thousand fellow citizens.

It's uncomfortable to know that you're really not in control; the All Powerful Mommy State really can be shot in the head at will with no warning if someone is determined enough to sacrifice themselves. Weswagner above probably said it better.

Uncomfortably, I find myself in Click's camp as well. I shouldn't be uncomfortable with it, it's a plain fact. Many years ago, one of my relatives told me that your State is actually your country, and anything outside of your State is a foreign land.

These days, anything outside of my zip code is starting to look foreign. Two zip codes over after midnight, and it might as well be Mogadishu.

My son, over in Seattle, is talking about buying body armor. Instead of being shocked, I asked him to keep me posted on what he's thinking about for a couple sets for us at home.

I don't care which way you look at it, it's ****ed up beyond all repair.

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Omne mendacium est.
Amused
Posts: 167
Incept: 2019-04-22

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The thing about the 9/11 Truthers that always gets me is how elaborate they are but yet at the same time, the same people are so stupid to not ask themselves some simple questions

Let's take two of them

1. The plane being shot down in Penn. Cheney did order this. So it is the most believable.

My question is always: SO WHAT? WHAT THE **** ELSE SHOULD WE HAVE DONE WITH A HOSTILE FORCE AIMING A MISSLE AT A POPULATION CENTER?

It was the right call to make, and if it did really happen and the whole 'let's role' thing was Lindy England propaganda, again, SO WHAT? It was the right call.

2. Controlled Demolition's of (Insert building here)

Let's say I accept the premise there were some controlled demolitions after the attacks. Again so what? These buildings had been targeted in 1993. I would hope that part of the response plan would be a quick controlled demolition in the event the remains were structurally unstable, so that buildings didn't fall sidewise in to the city.

They had literally been attacked less than a decade before, with that being the plan, to knock one tower over, in to the other, and knock them both down in to the city.

Any person with half a brain would say: 'If this happens again, and the buildings are left in an unstable state, we need to have a way to bring them down quickly'

Ckaminski
Posts: 5533
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If it was CDI, why did initiation on both buildings start at the,impact points? Thats not hoe you do CDI.

Flyanddive
Posts: 3926
Incept: 2008-10-10

Detroit
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Has anyone asked the simplest question, were the Twin Towers ****ty architecture, built from substandard materials?

I do believe United 93 was shot down, however.

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"I've seen people go into real poverty trying to pretend to be rich."
Ckaminski
Posts: 5533
Incept: 2011-04-08

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By all accounts all .mil planes 8n tbe air that morning were unarmed. Thered be some dead and missing combat aircraft and pilots if that were the case.

Now how believable is it that those planes were unarmed? *shrug*
Alosix
Posts: 1178
Incept: 2009-03-31

Behind enemy lines..
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@fly
If this is to be believed
https://tribunist.com/military/this-f-16....

It sounds like the first 2 F16s that were sent to chase it down weren't armed.

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"Software Development is one of those jobs, like picking lettuce, or cleaning toilets, that Americans just refuse to do." : STCM
Tickerguy
Posts: 158977
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@Flyanddive -
Quote:
I do believe United 93 was shot down, however.

Nope. If he had been shot down (or rammed for that matter) there would have been plenty of pieces of material size as it would have broken up at altitude.

It didn't. It hit the ground in one piece which is why there was not much left larger than a quarter across in size.

You break it up and all the pieces fall. You hit the ground under power, on the other hand, and it's a whole different game.

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Winding it down.
Flaps10
Posts: 7056
Incept: 2008-10-17

PNW
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Wes wrote..
Conspiracy theories propagate because people of limited to average intelligence often prefer a world where someone is in control, even so far as to imagine a malevolent entity such as an illuminati, rather than cope with the loss of control that comes with admitting that the world is random, indifferent, and there is nothing they can do about that natural order of the universe.


No, conspiracy theories propagate because there are conspiracies - and the quickest way to shut someone up is to shout "conspiracy theory" to slide them over to the Moonbat category.

Here on private property I have no dog in the building collapsing discussion, but even our host has pointed out where the money came from (Saudi Arabia) and how the Saudis were on a flight out of the country when all other planes were grounded. Is that a crazy theory?

Did Epstein hang himself during a camera malfunction?

Not even MLK jr's family believes James Earl Ray was the shooter. Crazy theory?
Tsherry
Posts: 2035
Incept: 2008-12-09

Spokane WA
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>>Has anyone asked the simplest question, were the Twin Towers ****ty architecture, built from substandard materials?>>

Of course they were. Successful architecture and engineering since at least WW2 has been to be able to build something that at any time is almost in fail mode, but not quite there. This is regarded as successful engineering and architecture, since you've used the most efficient design to create the space without excess structure or mass. If you want a building to last centuries, you build it with a lot of mass, over "engineer" it to withstand the most destructive force of all (time) and you build it of materials that are exceptionally durable (stone, heavy timbers, etc.)

You take that design, then you give it to the low bidder, who underbid it, and then he finds ways to cut costs.

I've always thought that collapses were inevitable once the structural integrity of the buildings were breached. You cannot support an off-center load when the structure was designed to support a perfectly balanced load. Throwing 250,000 lbs of aircraft at them was unsurvivable. I think Building 7 was blown apart structurally from the impacts of the towers from below and the side as the towers collapsed into the basement and subbasement, creating an uplift that shattered the building and ignited fuel storage along with other flammables in the debris. Diesel burns well enough when the tanks are breached and there are all kinds of other ignition sources around (electricity, for one).

Whatever. They're all still dead.

Before the first collapse, there was a video that showed the one of the towers already compressing, with a corner shot of the metal skin, already buckling downward. When I saw that, I pointed that out to my wife and kids, and I told them that the building's going to come down. And, it did.

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Omne mendacium est.
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