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2019-08-06 11:07 by Karl Denninger
in 2ndAmendment , 393 references Ignore this thread
Guns, Eh? Uh, No.
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So the narrative is that it was "White Supremacists" involved in both shootings.

But that's not true.

Twitter has suspended the account of the alleged Dayton shooter.  It included many tweets that were pro Antifia and, in addition, called for the death of many conservatives and law enforcement officers.  Of course Twitter did this only after this nutbag shot up Dayton's "party district", including killing his own sister.  His account appears to have promoted Satan, socialism, anti-ICE rhetoric (including calling the nutbag who attacked an ICE office in Tacoma a "martyr"), Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

Oh, by the way, he also wanted gun control.  Not hard to figure out why given that he intended to (and did) shoot people; being shot at tends to dissuade you from doing such things.

The Internet "memory hole" also went hard at work to cover up the El Paso shooter too; he too was allegedly a registered Democrat, but "someone" tried to change that to "Republican."  Oh, and then there's the curious case of his father who, it appears, is... well... odd.  Oh, and he has some interesting connections too; some of them truly lurid and, since I can't run them down I'm not going to report on them here.  What's going on there and does it reach his son?  Will we ever get the truth about that or will the lefties try to blame it all on "white supremacists" when, it appears, nothing of the sort is involved.

Of course nobody is talking about the 1,500 people shot in Chicago so far this year.  Why?  They're not "white nationalists" and it can't be (falsely) pinned on them.  In fact, most of the shooters and victims are black or Hispanic.  What gives folks?  Why is that not cause for all sorts of screaming about "gun control" but these two incidents are?  Is it "racist" to state the fact that most of those shoots are black-on-black?  Incidentally this last weekend just as many people were shot in that one city alone as were felled in these two events.

The El Paso shooter, from all indications, is a hard-core socialist backing universal healthcare among other things.  Yeah, he's a nutbag - but he sure as hell isn't a Republican, by his own claims.  But... someone changed public information on him.  Who, and why aren't they in custody for what is a blatant attempt to stoke a civil war?  That's incitement to mass-murder or even rebellion, a serious felony.  Who did that?  Did the FBI do that?  If they did, then it's on like Donkey Kong.  If not then they have an obligation to run this down and tell us who did it and arrest any and all of them right here and now.  Period.

Suddenly, Antifa deletes hundred, even thousands of tweets and accounts.  Gee, I wonder why.  It wouldn't be a couple of nutbags shooting things up, would it?

Speaking of which, I know these people are nutbags.  So do you.  It's basic logic.  Let's just for a moment take everything alleged in the "manifesto" posted by the El Paso shooter as true.  This, by the way, is the path you take when you seek a legal injunction; the court takes all your assertions as truths.  Of course they're not necessarily so, but that's where the starting point is.

If all those assertions are true who is responsible for all of those assertions being true?  Is it the person in WalMart shopping for their kid's school supplies?  Of course not.  So why did he shoot them?  Clearly, that was an irrational (nutbag) act.  Ipso facto, we're done and need go no further to determine if the shooter is a nutbag.  He is.

In the case of Dayton we have a woman who "dated" him, never mind school suspensions in his past for having both a "hit" and a "rape" (!!) list.  The woman who dated him claims he was bipolar.  Gee, big shock.  Not.

Ever been around someone who is bipolar?  I have.  Some of the people afflicted with that are pretty good at hiding it and others are diligent in remaining balanced through medication.  But it's a damnable mental disorder, because when you're on your meds and all is well you feel just fine and normal.  This poses grave risk because if you stop taking said meds you no longer are sane enough to realize you need to start taking them again.  There are varying levels of severity in that disorder, as with most but like nearly all mental disorders if you're truly impacted it's life-long -- there's no cure, only management and for many people so-afflicted self-management as a practical matter is impossible.

Taking guns away from people with "Red Flag Laws" will do nothing.  In Japan, where it's virtually impossible to own a gun, a mentally-deranged individual recently burned an anime studio and killed 33 people.  He thought about it, he set the fire, he calculated doing so as to prevent people from escaping from the building and he was successful.

You want to actually solve this problem?  Then follow both the Constitution and common sense.  Those who present an unreasonable risk to others should be brought before a court, the facts examined and, if necessary, committed involuntarily as mentally incompetent.  That complies with due process of law, the Constitution and does not implicate the 1st, 2nd, 4th or 5th Amendment, nor any other.  It's also effective in that irrespective of the method one would use to commit said harm, whether it be firearms, gasoline, an SUV, an airplane or a truckload of fertilizer if the person is in an institution they cannot commit any such offense.  If such a person can be monitored outside of an institution in an effective manner, then that's great -- but that's not always the case.  In any event if you're going to declare someone a nutjob and incompetent then the entity doing so must be held legally accountable when they get it wrong in either direction; either by falsely confining someone or failing to do so when they must, or believing that outpatient monitoring is sufficient when it isn't.  The revocation of someone's liberty and rights under the Constitution is sometimes necessary but accountability for doing so when you get it wrong must be absolute and enforceable against those who take said actions -- without exception and in both directions.  We're talking about grave responsibilities here folks, and with grave responsibility must come grave accountability.

A rational person who truly believed what was in that manifesto and was willing to spend their life to redress what they saw as a grievous, intolerable wrong would go after the people responsible for those policies.  By definition the person who walks into a WalMart or drinking establishment and randomly kills people is mentally ill; they may be an SSRI-induced rage monster or suffering from some other form of mental derangement but they are clearly not aggrieved over some grave injustice that they believe justifies taking life and are seeking retribution from the people responsible. The random individuals in that WalMart or having a drink in Dayton didn't write said laws, didn't vote on and pass said laws and don't look the other way while millions violate the law.

The responsible parties for said outrages reside in our State Houses, Congress, courts and Executive.  We have a body of law that makes all manner of things people do every day for the explicit purpose of screwing other Americans illegal and nobody among those entities cares.  It is illegal to cross our border and remain here without authorization but not only does nobody care we have Presidential candidates and virtually every member of Congress who refuses to crack down on it.  We have entire industries that live and breathe on illegal employment (construction and agriculture), knowingly employing illegal invaders and none of those business owners go to prison.  We have fully 20% of our economy that runs on fraud and felony (the medical system) contrary to 100+ year old law, driving the cost of ordinary medicine to 500% of what it would be in a free market.  We have a handful of billionaires that have destroyed small retailers in America including through tactics that facially appear to be felony violations of 15 USC Chapter 1 while both the government and those billionaires laugh at us. We have a government that turned higher education into an extraction racket through myriad changes starting with student debt bankruptcy exemptions and then Obama's take-over of nearly all student loans.  We have trade policies (yes, even under Trump) that amount to paying people to offshore pollution and death to third-world nations all in the name of a buck.  All of this destroyed the ability of honest, hard-working people who happen to be on the left side of the bell curve (that's half the nation, folks!) to keep and hold a job that earns enough to support a family of four.  Put that pressure, all of it intentionally imposed on the people of this nation by the jackwads in our State and Federal Governments and virtually all of it illegal under laws that have stood for more than a century upon those who had the bad luck to land on the left side of the statistical mean and it should not come as a shock that those who in addition to being on the left side of the curve are mentally unstable lose their **** and some small percentage of them do crazy, even murderously crazy, things.

Those who turn to "gun control" when these events happen are tyrants.  Every one of them.  Rather than working to address any of the underlying issues or institutionalizing those who are both nuts and dangerous they instead intend to kill you and are insane enough to declare it in public.  Many of them are coy about it but not all.  Kamala Harris, a current candidate for President, has refused to rule out sending police to murder anyone who will not comply with her preferred gun control policies.  Such a statement is the height of irresponsibility as it marks every peace officer as a potential murderous thug and puts their lives at extreme risk.  By pure logic anyone who has good cause to believe someone is imminently going to kill them and possesses the means to do so has every right to shoot first in self-defense.  Kamala has absolutely no business running for office or being a Senator; in a sane world uttering such a statement would lead to her immediate banishment from public office permanently.  I remind you that she had the power to do this sort of thing on a state basis previously and now seeks to do it nationally.  She has literally painted a target on every police officer's back in this country.  She, along with many others, are drunk on power and this crap must stop as down this road lies literal civil war.

Those who want to restrict guns need to look at Hong Kong right here and now.  The Government is threatening to literally send in the military.  The people have declared the current city government illegitimate and demand its leader resign.  They're not crazy.  No entire body politic ever is.  A few may be, but that's a few -- nearly all of those in Hong Kong are sane.  They have every right to declare their government illegitimate and so do you here in America, and if they, or you, do so in concert with everyone else and the government refuses to leave peacefully there is exactly one way you will enforce that mandate against the 536 *******s who the body of Americans as a whole have declared illegitimate in Washington DC.  It's called a gun, lots of them, and military-style guns at that.  The Founders of this nation not only understood this they explicitly wrote it into our Constitution for this very reason.  They had just done exactly what the 2nd Amendment contemplates when the British decided that they would take the ammunition of the Colonists at Concord.  The people as a body politic decided they would not allow it and when the British refused to accede peacefully they shot them.

The Founders did not write the 2nd Amendment into our Constitution so you can hunt deer or even repel the home invading jackass at 0-dark-rape-your-wife.  Those are beneficial side effects of the reason for the 2nd Amendment which was written into the Constitution to make clear that should the government ever once again do what it did here in 1776 the people, collectively, have the right to stop it by whatever means are necessary.  The Founders understood that so long as that capacity exists it will never need to be used because the government will, properly so, fear the consequence of their action and thus not take it.

Want to talk about guns eh?  There's only one discussion I want to have about guns: Everyone should go armed, all the damn time now and forevermore, so long as these nutjobs who appear to be either crazy, Antifa apologists or worse, are on the streets.  Any attempt to restrict firearms which will preclude people defending themselves against said nutbags is unacceptable.  If you want to solve the problem of mass-shootings, and it's a real issue and demands a real solution, tell me again why both the El Paso shooter, who apparently has family links that are sketchy at best and the media is intentionally ignoring all of that, along with the Dayton shooter, who maintained a rape and hit list, were walking free on the streets instead of receiving the institutional treatment they both desperately needed.

No, I will not consent to a bunch of leftist jackwads deciding to shoot me while the government says I must be disarmed and left at the mercy of the crazy -- and neither should you.  There will always be the odd crazy that is missed, although in both of these cases there appears to be little excuse other than deliberate malfeasance for such to have taken place.

If there's a hill worth dying on it's this one.

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Whitehat
Posts: 1255
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Gone West
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another nice act of the sixties and seventies counter culture was the de-institutionalization of people who had no business being left to their own devices. yes, such facilities must be strictly monitored to prevent cruelty and injustice, however there are some who cannot have any unsupervised time.

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Parcontre
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Fort Worth
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For what it's worth, Texas is an open primary state. When registering to vote, citizens do not indicate their political party affiliation. Primaries are generally held in March of even numbered years, and when the voter shows up at the polling place to cast his vote, he must select whether to vote a Democrat or Republican ballot; if there is a runoff because no candidate for a particular office received 50% of the votes cast, voters must vote the same party's ballot as they voted a few weeks earlier. However, when the next primary rolls around in two years, the voter is perfectly free to vote the ballot of a different party.

The fact that a voter participated in any election, and the party whose ballot the voter selected in a primary, is a matter of public record. To say that someone in Texas is a registered Republican or Democrat is incorrect; one can, however, observe in which party's primary someone has participated.

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Stee_man
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The media is public enemy number one. Half the population (conservatives) are being smeared on a daily basis. They are making everyone feel hopeless about our future, and hopeless to be able to get justice from our system of gov't. If you have a logical argument you can be banned from public discourse, fired from your job, or have your business destroyed.

If something isn't done, the left will eventually take over by sheer demographics. They have stated their intention to kill to enforce their will on anyone who disagrees with them. They must be rounded up and jailed to save the republic. Lincoln set the legal precedent for that.
Greyhound
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With the Russiangate hoax they have proved they can run a counterfactual story in the media, gaslight the public, and with enough of their team in place carry the ball over the goal line for the win.
Amused
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I would argue the El Paso shooter was not insane, just mistaken if he believed his duty as a Militia member to stop invasion meant killing civilians at a Walmart.

I've said it before but out of all the nuts, at least the Republican Baseball shooter knew the right sort of targets even if you disagree with him, if we accept as given the right to bare arms is to overthrow the government when it becomes tyrannical.

Disagree with him if you want, but the Liberal one was the only one to try to use them as the framers intended to stop a regime he perceived as tyrannical.
Tickerguy
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@Amused -- if you follow some of the familial linkage I suspect you'll change your mind. The media does NOT want us to get our arms around that and they would have been able to hide it in the case of the Dayton dude too EXCEPT that his former girlfriend outed him, so now that's no longer possible.

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Winding it down.
Stee_man
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Amused, I agree on the right targets. I'm afraid if there is a civil uprising, people will just mindlessly attack each other, or burn their own neighborhoods.

People just know things are bad. They are becoming despondent and feeling out of control. Who is the media telling them to hate? White people, rich people, conservatives, believers in the constitution. The elites pulling the strings are far away and mostly nameless. How do we direct this anger toward the right enemies? No amount of walmart attacks will ever change things for the better.
Greyhound
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Stee_man: People just know things are bad. They are becoming despondent and feeling out of control. Who is the media telling them to hate? White people, rich people, conservatives, believers in the constitution. The elites pulling the strings are far away and mostly nameless.

I think your question answers itself. The string puller names are known, they have to be better known and made the issue. A Soros, an Epstein can be exposed but it takes relentless chipping away at them until their toxic nature is not defended even by people on their own side.
Rollformer
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A quote, from the Guns of August:

Believing themselves superior in soul, in strength, in energy, industry, and national virtue, Germans felt they deserved the dominion of Europe."

One need only replace Germans with Leftists, and Europe with America. I don't know what it is, but I think that these events, and the eventual responses to them, may be a "Guns of August" moment for America, here 105 years after the events referenced by that book's title. I hope I am wrong.
Quik49
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Heir Goebbels would be proud of their antics

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Long Vaseline....

Aztrader
Posts: 8399
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Scottsdale, AZ
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This guy was posted and have no clue if it's real. If so, it raises a lot of questions.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=yo....
Amused
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@Tickerguy: Well, I don't really care much for judging the crimes of children by their fathers. Mine was a Communist and it has **** all to do with me.

What I do know is what I read of his purported manifesto. Assuming it is not fake, it looks like a mix of Ethno-nationalism and Eco-Fascim.
Tdurden
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I'm hoping if we get another one of these events in the next few days, with all 20+ marxists running for president and the cable tee-vee talking heads screaming RACIST at the beginning and end of every sentence, the lumpen will finally be so desensitized to it that they will just tune out when they hear it.

It's to the point now on the Idiocracy scale that "RACIST" is now used more than "...brought to you by Carl's Junior."

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Tickerguy
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@Amused oh no the issue is whethwr Dad DRUGGED him!

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Winding it down.
Twainfan2
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Repubs are all now pushing red flag laws... the shootings have done their intended job. Even people like Thune from SD is pushing red flag laws... South Dakota is hardly a place that would normally even think about gun control. At the very least... I expect a national red flag law bill like Graham's to be passed and signed by Dump by Sept 1.

If there was a "civil war 2.0 clock" like the doomsday clock... it would have just jumped a lot closer to midnight. The gun grabbers are winning and it won't do a thing to stop any of these issues.
Tinman
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Red flag laws are a recipe for complete break down of society. With that in place the next time there is a school shooting my POS communist BIL with bipolar will have my guns removed extrajudicial. I wonder what she and my family will think of him if it gets me killed. Also, going forward it really stifles the 1st as left wing ****heads can run their mouths with no opposition otherwise no guns for you. You'll have to keep your mouth shut if you have any hope of being visited in the middle of the night.
Amused
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The larger issue here, is let us presume that the shooter is a symptom of something else, not a lone nut, part of that underlying distrust of the Rule of Law.

Take the gun debate or red flag debate aside for a moment.

If we accept him at his words (supposedly again) in his manifesto, his taking action is only going to be the first of many.

Trump, refuses to enforce the Rule of Law in every other area, but he loves to inflamed the ethno-nationalistic debate because it makes him look good to his base.

Of course his hands are limited by what Congress will and will not pass as far as laws to reform the immigration system.

But by not addressing all of the other issues, be at the monetary Shell games the crime in the insurance pharmaceutical and medical industry as a whole, or the tech sector, his fanning this fire is only going to make things worse, not better.

If we accept what he said about being radicalized in holding these views before Trump, the implication is that yes Trump really is pushing these cues forward the shooter is just saying that Trump didn't plant that idea in his head, but is a passive acknowledgement that it is there.

I don't think we can move forward with the Preesident because all he will continue to do will be to inflame fires while not actually enforcing a Rule of Law which will just lead to further acts of crime on both the left and right as we descend into tribalism.
Magus
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Amused - 10-20 people a year going nuts out a population of 320 million is hard to blame on a politician. That's such a small fraction of the population and I don't think Trump is fanning the "flames" at all. The media/DNC certainly is though as well as the open border /welfare state / "free" trade is combined with SSRIs and other issues. These shooting have been increasing at 50% a year for the last 20 years. The first mass shooting like this didn't even occur till the 1960s in the US despite a huge # of guns. What's happened in the last 20 years? We've had 24/7 media coverage of it, the killers get an insane amount of coverage, and the politicians use it to rile up their bases.

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Jacksparrow
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My first wife was bipolar. I lived with her for 15 years. These people make life a living hell. An admin person where I worked for decades was bipolar. That b**** was insane. Then for several years I worked with an untreated bipolar boss. OMG it was awful. Here's the thing though. These people love it when they are manic. It gives them I high that they think is normal. They won't actually tell a doctor about their mania because they don't want to give it up and they know the drugs will remove their high. My wife and I had the same GP doctor. I begged him to ask the right questions to confirm she was bipolar and to treat her for it. All she would acknowledge is the depression side of being bipolar. She also was a sexual anorexic (look it up) and a narcissist. When I finally realized she had the problem and refused treatment I bailed.
Emg
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Canada
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"Red flag laws are a recipe for complete break down of society."

Which is exactly what the left want.
Xqqme
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Ohio
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https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201....
John Brown Gun Club pretending to fight against Fascism
Redneck Revolt -the armed Redneck Group that want to stamp out Fascism (wears red bandana scarves)
Get to know the Armed factions of the Resistance.
Amazon2005
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Hong Kong from here. I have been visiting your forum for quite a few years. Glad you mentioned us. Seems quite desperate here.
Asimov
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East Tennessee
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Amazon: Would love to hear stuff unfiltered by the media.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Nickdanger
Posts: 762
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Here's another nutbag in the making. He's known to be "strange", but believed to be harmless. Yeah, right. What meds could this kid be on? And yet, if something such as a mass shooting by this guy happens in the future, it will be the guns that are blamed for the incident, and not the shooter and his mental issues.

https://nypost.com/2019/08/17/person-of-....

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Grammar: the difference between knowing your **** and knowing you're ****.
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