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2019-05-14 10:40 by Karl Denninger
in Corruption , 82 references Ignore this thread
Ready To Rise Up Yet? Medicine Is KILLING You.
[Comments enabled]


Tell me again why the people sit for this..... it's not just the hundreds of thousands of deaths -- it's also the trillions of dollars stolen.


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User Info Ready To Rise Up Yet? Medicine Is KILLING You. in forum [Market-Ticker]
Posts: 111162
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee Eastern Time
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People suck. While there may be some exceptions to that rule, the blatant and obvious greed for both money and power in our society is just ****ing ****ed. And it's everywhere and everything.

I'm just 8 minutes into the video right now (statistics) and I'm not sure it's worth the nausea to finish watching.

"This is not science, this is marketing."

It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Posts: 111162
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee Eastern Time
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Oh god. I kept watching. The case study about statins and "never stop your statin or you could die."

It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Posts: 388
Incept: 2017-04-29

DeKalb, Illinois
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My Doctor at the VA keeps pushing me to take statins, and vaccinations. I keep telling him, "Hell No!!!" The VA is in bed with Big Pharma big time.
Posts: 271
Incept: 2016-02-11

Pacific Northwest
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My doc is pressuring me for a colonoscopy. I can't decide if it is as important as conventional wisdom says, or if it is total bull****, like alot of medical conventional wisdom.

A friend had that done and the doc perforated his colon. A lifeflight, a repair, and he got a bill for $50k.

Posts: 371
Incept: 2010-06-10

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my mother in law was one of those stent victims. she went to the doctor for a routine check up, she had no symptoms. he wanted her to go to the local hospital for a stress test. she was 78. she had the stress test the same afternoon and was told she needed a stent and that they could do it the same day. a piece of the blockage went to the brain and resulted in a stroke. she never returned home and lived the rest of her life in a nursing home unable to walk or talk.
Posts: 157213
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@Drifter -- that's the problem with a "routine" colonoscopy. Yes, it can catch polyps (benign) or cancer (not!) Removing the former may or may not prevent progression to the latter; a benign growth doesn't OFTEN turn into a malignant one, but if it does it's bad obviously.

Procedurally the test has a roughly 0.4% serious complication rate itself. That doesn't sound awful but in fact it's pretty bad -- about 1 in 250. If you're the one then life gets EXTREMELY bad in that a punctured colon can kill you or leave you with a PERMANENT ostomy bag and ALWAYS winds up as an extremely serious situation with major surgery required to correct it along with an extremely high risk of septic shock and all sorts of other nasties since what's IN your colon has no business being loose in your abdomen -- all of which YOU will get the bill for. Note that the risk of colon cancer ITSELF is roughly a ~4% lifetime risk; you're betting on a procedure with a 1/10th the risk of severe injury or death to catch a disease that has a 4% LIFETIME incidence.

If they remove a polyp that rate of severe complications rises to between 2-3% or damn close to the risk of the disease itself. The latter is also getting into the fairly high risk area (1 in 50 to 1 in 33!) which is justified if the polyp was going to turn into cancer but definitely is not if it wasn't going to.

Further, the question IF cancer is detected is "does it change the end outcome?" If the answer is NO then the test is worthless. That one is VERY hard to get clean data on -- I've been unable to obtain any sort of real statistical answer to that and that's the critical question because if it detects cancer but the cancer still ultimately kills you then the test is worth ZERO. In fact if it sets you on an immediate course of action that trashes your quality of life AND ultimately kills you then the test has NEGATIVE value (since otherwise the time until you discovered the cancer via some other means would be GOOD time and you just turned it into BAD time.)

As a result I don't have a well-formed opinion on this one for someone without specific risk factors that place their risk of the underlying disease above the statistical average. I'm ESPECIALLY slant-eyed toward "routine re-tests" on a timed basis if you have one done and it's negative.

Colon cancer killed my mother but she was a ripe old bird and everyone dies of SOMETHING. She went 2+ years past original diagnosis; they cut the tumor out but did not have to remove enough colon to prevent her from having normal bowel function and she refused chemo and radiation post-op; ultimately she had a couple of bad weeks at the end but the rest of the time she had remaining was good. I can't argue with any part of the choices she made nor do I suspect she would given the outcome.

Winding it down.

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@Drifter -

My doc, who appears to think for herself instead of just spouting AMA, etc. propaganda, told me this: to alleviate concerns about colon cancer, colonoscopy should be performed only AFTER very benign/non-invasive tests have been performed, e.g., stool sample analyses, etc., and indicate that you actually may have a potential cancer problem.

Those simple/benign tests, of course, are very cheap and provide very little profit to the medical industry, so docs/hospitals tend to push people directly to colonoscopy. She did recommended that stool sample tests be performed as part of "normal", periodic general check-ups.

". . . the Constitution has died, the economy welters in irreversible decline, we have perpetual war, all power lies in the hands of the executive, the police are supreme, and a surveillance beyond Orwells imaginings falls into place." - Fred Reed
Posts: 157213
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Yep -- non-invasive tests can only cost you money and most of them don't cost very much money. You have to watch out for the false-positive rate on them (and what a false positive will lead to) but that's their biggest concern.

Any invasive test, on the other hand, not only has a false positive rate to worry about but also has a direct injury rate and direct injury impact (what happens IF there is a direct injury.) In the case of colonoscopy the direct injury impact is typically between large (bleeding and/or moderate infection, both of which require medical intervention several times more expensive and debilitating than the test itself) and catastrophic (severe systemic infection or puncture of the colon; extraordinarily expensive, severely debilitating and potentially fatal.)

Winding it down.
Posts: 38
Incept: 2018-12-04

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My dad had a triple bypass 20 years ago (which an extensive heart stress test at his local clinic did not even indicate a problem but we all knew there would be because about 99% of his male relatives have all died from heart attacks going back decades) and has been on Statins ever since. Luckily he hasn't really had any side effects from them. So about 3 or 4 years ago he was having issues with being tired all the time and chest pains. He went in for an angiogram .. they couldn't get his blood pressure down so they checked his kidneys.. one had 2 arteries that were 90% blocked (stents were put in)... so how does someone on statins for 15+ years end up with blocked arteries IF Statins are supposed to prevent that very thing?

His triple bypass still looks great (he's 81 now) however the 4th main artery was about 50% blocked so they put a stent in that as well. He's old enough now that it really doesn't matter. I think his issues were stomach related (they also put him on a med for acid reflux) and possibly related to his kidney's not working properly due to lack of blood flow.

I don't go to doctors unless I know I need something fixed. It's such a racket.. most of them (doctors) belong in prison... not just any prison but an Office Space style federal pound them in the ass prison.
Posts: 30
Incept: 2011-06-19

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Compelling stuff, but what he said 9 minutes into his talk - is complete bull****.

< < < < He said:
Doctors are unwittingly practicing unethical medicine. Most Doctors want to do the right thing, but they're misinformed. > > > >

****ing nonsense! They KNOW what they are doing because they are getting kickbacks from the drug companies, among other perks. Doc's used to be ethical, but they are all greedy ****ing scum now.

As you so correctly pound the table - THE WHOLE "Health Care" system IS A GIGANTIC RACKET! This scam can't collapse soon enough!

Posts: 279
Incept: 2011-08-23

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I go to a very good HMO, and have a very smart doctor. He told me that I was due for my first colonoscopy, and I told him that I would prefer to do yearly FIT tests. He is totally fine with that; he said the data support that approach. I would get a colonoscopy if a couple of FIT tests came back positive.

I buy a FIT test every six months for my 94 year old father in law (they are about $30 each). He lives with us; he is in fantastic shape (he has done caloric restriction for decades). I know a fair number of elderly people who ended up dying of colon cancer. His doctor of course is not interested in giving him a colonoscopy, which is how it should be; it would be especially risky for him. But taking the FIT test gives us information. I have no idea what he would want to do with that info if it turns out at some point he has colon cancer, but that will be his business. I do think he has at least another ten years of life expectancy, so it is not crazy to want to know.
Posts: 572
Incept: 2009-09-04

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I was having gastro issues (reflux) bad enough I'd thought I was having a cardiac event and went to the ER a couple times. VA couldn't get me an appt with a VA gastro Dr (one at the local VA had quit), so they referred me to a local doc.

He did an EGD, which I agree I needed. Small hiatal hernia, etc. Prescribed me a mountain of zantac and a PPI. Helped a tiny bit, not much. Still had occasional major events.

He (well, his nurse - I've never actually spoken to the Dr.) also wanted to do a colonoscopy. I explained the VA did an annual FIT, and I didn't think it was a necessary procedure. Nurse got irate with me. I mean literally yelling, basically telling me that if I didn't have it done I was going to die of ass cancer.

4 visits later, nothing had improved much. When the attacks are bad, nitro helps, so I keep thinking it's my heart. I tell the gastro nurse that, she's confused. So I get another whole cardio workup, including an angio. No issues. At the rate I'm accumulating blockages, it might be a concern when I'm about 140yrs old.

Kept bugging the VA to get to see their gastro Dr. Finally got an appt after about 6 months. I explained that nitro helped. He instantly said "ahh, esophageal spasms. Nitro relaxes those. Makes people think they are having a heart attack." He fixed everything by prescribing a muscle relaxer. I've stopped my PPI completely, and I'm down to a non-prescription dose of zantac. I also discovered (thanks to a list of things to watch the VA doc gave me) that chocolate is a massive trigger food for me. No amount is safe.

VA fixed me. On the other hand, my primary care pushes a statin at me every visit. I politely decline.
Posts: 985
Incept: 2015-05-03

Vancouver WA
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My half a nickle worth of input on colonoscopy.

Any time a part of your body that is supposed to be covered is exposed you put yourself at risk. Your digestive system replenishes/replaces it's lining about every 5 days, meaning nothing (should) sit around too long. If you are eating healthy and your body chemistry is mostly where it should be your body will naturally pass whatever it cannot absorb through the other side.

If you were to cut your finger, you bleed, once the blood is exposed to air it starts to coagulate, you get a scab and possibly a scare. Your body heals itself. One of the reasons the blood starts to flow quickly and heavily is to push out any foreign bodies, by doing this it also keeps air from entering your body. The tissue under your skin is not designed to be exposed to air, that is why it is covered with skin.

Your intestinal system is no different, it is not designed to have air pumped into it so a camera can be shoved up there. In fact it is not really designed to have anything, gerbils included....Shoved up it.

There certainly is good and sound reasons to have your body explored for medical purposes, but even the simplest exposure to things that should remain outside of it carries risks. Is the risk worth the potential reward?
the test has a roughly 0.4% serious complication rate itself.
Only the person having the procedure can/should answer that. The doctors and other medical personal should give sound advice, but they carry none of the risk. And I personally wonder if some of these procedures actually help contribute to cancer in the long run.

I believe statins just like ADHD drugs can have a viable medical usage, but only for specific situations. Our bodies are amazing things and are capable of healing themselves when we give them what they truly need and at times that might mean a statin or Adderal is what is best for the job. No one would take their car to a mechanic that only had hammers in their garage,yet people trust their lives to medical personal that only want to use a specific tool....Makes one wonder who the real tool is.
Posts: 1140
Incept: 2007-09-18

South of Billings Mt
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I did not know what a FIT test was.

Copied this from Google Search...

Fecal immunochemical test (FIT): MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia Medical Encyclopedia
Aug 1, 2017 - The fecal immunochemical test (FIT) is a screening test for colon cancer. It tests for hidden blood in the stool, which can be an early sign of cancer. FIT only detects human blood from the lower intestines.


If you see a snake, just kill it - don't appoint a committee on snakes. ~Ross Perot~

Posts: 11069
Incept: 2007-12-17

Saint Charles MO
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I feel I have to do colonoscopy tests. My father had colon cancer. His mother and brother as well. I would not do them otherwise. It's just a matter of weighing the odds.

I think its time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that our founding fathers intended for us. Ronald Reagan 1964
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And aren't endosccopes plagued with sterilization issues?

Posts: 157213
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Winding it down.
Posts: 8
Incept: 2018-05-22

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Fascinating presentation, mostly the mismatch of benefits vs. risk issue.

I just listened to a great long discussion on stents for stable and acute angina. The hammer analogy is perfect, the doctors thought of stents as a cure all. The stents needed to have a drug infused so the artery wall could stabilize. And stents only help for certain situations. There was actually a blinded study done to show whether stents helped. To be clear, that meant patients went into the catheter lab and got a sham operation with no stent installed. There was little difference in the result.

One enlightening image from the talk was a picture of a failed cardiac artery had 7 previous scars until the final attack causing occlusion. And this was the usual sequence. Huge fan of Peter Attia's "The Drive".

To be kind to the doctors I think they get weary of trying to get patients to stop smoking and lose weight (not that they knew the correct method for this) and getting no compliance. They wind up looking for a quick fix and the pharmaceutical companies offer a solution.

Along the same lines, Robert Lustig, has been trying to get sugar reduced for children and then realizing that we have been chasing short term solutions. In particular he is warning that we are pursuing pleasure rather than happiness. In medical terms we are using dopamine hits rather than serotonin. And dopamine receptors become desensitized so we need more and more sugar or video games or whatever. "Hacking of the American Mind"

From the Attia Drive episodes I learned of the new epidemic of NAFLD, Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease. The surgeons would ask a patient if they drank to titrate anesthetic and hear "no". Then find a fatty liver that was considered emblematic of alcoholism. After some number of cases the answer was found, excess sugar consumption. Now NAFLD is a huge cause of liver failure.

My only real insight is that just like smoking vanishing I can see sugar being rare in 20 years.
Posts: 495
Incept: 2011-05-20

Northwest Florida
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Had some GERD issues a few years ago. When I went LCHF it disappeared. Thank you Gen. I tell my wife that if I get colon cancer then they gonna find that out in the autopsy
Posts: 1508
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Drifter: Your doctor is trying to shove something up your ASS! That should tell you everything you need to know about him.
Posts: 6160
Incept: 2007-11-06

Philly - FEMA region 3
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Nothing new here. It is just outrageous. I have "friends" that work for these death merchants - Merck. Pfizers Lipitor is the largest selling drug of all time.

Good to know about the colonoscopy risks and lack of rewards. **** that.

If you are concerned about colon health make sure you have a fair amount of soluble fiber. Too much non-soluble (mostly wheat and grains but in some vegetables as well) may damage the colon over time. - Dr. Gundry - I believe he is point on most of his diet and nutrition information.

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Incept: 2008-02-23

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I've had one colonoscopy, about 8 years ago. It was not a pleasant experience, but the doctor found 3 small benign polyps that he removed during the procedure.
Posts: 1332
Incept: 2013-02-13

Seagrove Beach
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Even a child gets it!

Doctor = chase dollars

Hurricane Evacuation Plan
1.Grab Beer
2.Run Like Hell

Reason: spelling
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