In-Your-Face Felonies, Willfully Ignored
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2019-04-25 10:28 by Karl Denninger
in Health Reform , 311 references Ignore this thread
In-Your-Face Felonies, Willfully Ignored
[Comments enabled]

There are times that you read something and as you do you start counting the criminal felonies -- just the ones in which someone gets prosecuted mount up so high you literally lose count.

But what's worse is the ticking off of the felonies that nobody gets arrested for, but are outlined in stark relief.

This is one example from CATO's book on Health Care:

 

That describes a classic form of extortion: "That's a very nice house you have there.  It would be a shame if you had to sell it because you got into a car wreck and were taken to the 'wrong' hospital."

Since it's also happening between multiple people we can add Racketeering to the allegations.

What's worse is that it has a name, as is described just a bit further on and has been documented as being criminal in that at least one company got charged and prosecuted.  But did the people defrauded get their money back?  No.  Nor did anyone go to prison.

Never mind that just a few pages later we hear that more than a third of physicians admit intentionally "up-coding"; that is, billing for things that didn't happen by exaggerating the complexity of a patient's condition.

third folks -- and those are just doctors who admit it.

Let me point out that every single one of those instances is theft, it is a criminal act, and given the amount of money involved and the active planning and involvement of their staff it is almost-certainly for every one of those physicians a serious criminal felony.

Oh, and if you think our current legislators are not involved?  Uh, Dan Gaetz -- father of Matt Gaetz -- is fingered in that book on page 200.  He was vice-chairman of the board of a firm that got caught.  He, of course, claims to have had no knowledge of it despite being on the board which has a legal responsibility to know what the company is doing.

He son is now in the US Congress where the rip-off continues, just as is former Governor Scott who, if you remember, was CEO of Columbia/HCA while the firm was robbing Medicare and Medicaid, ultimately paying $1.7 billion in fines.  Of course this was less than they stole, and further, none of the robbed -- who, I remind you in the case of Medicare, means Seniors since participants are responsible for 20%, got a nickel of their money back.

Not only that but the book points out something that is a central part of my argument on the fix: Hospitals make money -- and lots of it -- by giving you infections.

 

Got that folks?  The hospital makes nearly ten times as much if it gives you a commonly-fatal infection.

Why would they care to take the precautions -- a simple checklist -- that prevents nearly all such infections?  

When they don't not only do you get massively screwed financially there's a very good chance you die.

This is not a "low probability" thing either; the record shows one in five persons that has surgery acquires a complication that is preventable through simple procedures that the hospital or physician did not perform.

The problem with the entirety of "Part 2" in this work is that it does nothing to address the out-of-control lawlessness.

The existing system is not one that is simply full of perverse incentives: It is full of outrageous, crippling fraud and felony, all of which is illegal.

Like so many other tomes on the matter even thought this one uses the "F" (fraud) word liberally (most don't) it doesn't use the other "F" word, felony, even though frauds are felonies.  It fails to call out both State and Federal prosecutors for failing to put a stop to all of this despite the existing laws that criminalize this conduct from top to bottom.

Oh yes, it does point to a few convictions.  The key here is "few"; in point of fact the structure of the system it documents is fraudulent and illegal.

Further, the book refuses to point out that if the cops don't want to arrest and the prosecutors don't want to prosecute then there is no solution until and unless the people make them do so, no matter what "structural" changes are enacted.

If I rob banks and realize that as long as I never point a gun at a cop and thus don't get shot, but when caught I will be required to give back only some of the loot then as long as the economic decision -- that is, I get to keep some of the money -- is to rob banks that is what I will do.

Simply put if the probability of getting caught robbing a bank is 1 in 3 then until and unless I must pay more than three times what I steal, if I never go to jail and never get shot then robbing banks is a good business.

The Government will never stop this voluntarily folks.  Never.  From the book and Rick Scott's own words:

 

If that doesn't make clear what's going on here nothing will.

Simply put it's this: The cost of medical care can be cut by 80% with little or no disruption to the health of Americans.  In fact health is likely to increase if for no other reason than avoidable errors and physician caused infections will drop like a stone as soon as those mistakes cost providers money instead of making them money.

If we were to force a fix then the Federal Deficit goes from over $1 trillion a year to an immediate and permanent surplus and your spendable value increases this year and every year thereafter.  You become wealthier even without a single raise -- ever.  The only people who get "screwed" are the 20% of the population that is currently screwing you.

If we don't do it then in just a few short years both Federal and State budgets collapse and deficits skyrocket.

Politicians will not do it voluntarily.  There is a 30+ year record on that.

They will instead find new ways to try to screw you in a vain attempt to keep the scam going -- and expand it.  Not one of the politicians running for election in 2020 to be President nor Trump, who said he would take this on during the 2016 campaign, has or will do so.  Many of these candidates that have said they will "help" are in Congress now; Bernie Sanders, for example, has a proposal that will increase the damage -- including by giving unlimited "free" medical care to illegal invaders who have no money -- and as such you will get their bill.  Bernie Sanders has been in office since 1991, first in the House and then Senate; he has had dozens of opportunities to stop these scams and has not only deliberately failed to do so he has voted for you to get butt****ed by medical firms and insurance companies -- repeatedly and more-violently.

CATO seems to think that the GOP had an "opportunity" to explain these facts to the public when Trump was elected.  But the GOP never intended to do any such thing.  Mitch McConnell, just to name one jackwad by example, has been in the Senate since 1984; he has failed to stop any of the screwing, ever, over the last 35 years despite being in a position to do so.  Rick Scott, who is now a Senator, and Matt Gaetz, a Representative with a father who was a State Senator, both have had a vested interest in increasing the flow of cash through health insurance companies -- and both are GOP members.  Both were involved up to their necks either personally or at a family level with health company related scams.  Their reward for engaging in same by themselves or their family members was Congressional seats with which they can screw you more.

Since insurance firms are regulated as to their maximum profit margin the only way they can make more money is for the total amount spent through them to increase.  This is the essence of Rick Scott's statement and it's absolutely true no matter the form of insurance.  As another example while car insurance companies will never tell you this (because you might burn the building to the ground and eat your insurance agent for lunch) they want you to buy more cars with more expensive collision repair costs -- more often.  They're even happier when you have more crashes so long as they're survivable.  The insurance industry loved both seatbelts and airbags -- and lobbied heavily to make both mandatory (along with passing mandatory seatbelt use laws in the states) because they made more-severe crashes survivable and thus not only did the amount of money that went through the insurance company go up on the present crash you would continue to be their customer after the crash and buy another car instead of being dead and never buying car insurance again.

IIHS crash-tests vehicles.  They rate them on survivability.  In point of fact the way they advocate reducing the force vectors for the people inside is to absorb more of it in the vehicle and they're perfectly fine with the entire vehicle being destroyed.  In crashes that would not be lethal (either with or without "modern" vehicle design) this greatly increases the monetary damage to the car.  They're very open about this ("the car gave its life for the people") but not about why, and it has nothing to do with you.  The economic incentives are for crashes to continually be more and more expensive -- in fact insurance companies want even modest crashes to be "totals" -- so the amount of money that flows through the auto insurance companies continually goes up.  Likewise the automakers don't care because the more vehicles are totaled in collisions the more money they make.  The only thing neither wants is dead people because dead people don't buy any more cars -- or insurance.

These entities all say they want more auto safety but the facts are that to grow their business they must have more cash-flow that goes through them, which means they either need more crashes, more expensive crashes or both -- so long as the operator survives.  Therefore the more damage the vehicle takes the better -- so long as you live.

One of the other arguments CATO makes is that Medicare pays more out than you paid in.  This is true but remember that Medicare is paying out grossly inflated prices and a huge amount of flat-out fraud.  Subtract that back out -- which is at least half the dollars spent and more-likely greater than 3/4 and the picture looks different.  Now add a reasonable Treasury rate of interest to your tax payments over your working life until you turn 65 and you actually bought an annuity with said tax payments which, on an actuarial basis, is quite sound and leaves enough money for management expenses.  You cannot say that Medicare is a "transfer" from the young to the old under those circumstances; that theft and fraud makes it so is not an excuse when both are intentionally un-prosecuted felonies.

Neither I nor anyone else who paid those taxes are responsible for the intentional failure to prosecute nor for the commission of the acts in the first place.  That responsibility rests with the health providers, insurance companies and government.

CATO also goes after the Medicare for All scam accurately enough.  Specifically, Medicare could, right now, negotiate price and refuse to pay if the price demanded was too high.  But every time CMS has asked for this authority in any way Congress has refused to provide it -- as CATO nicely documents.  When CMS thought it had ways to do this administratively Congress passed new laws to prohibit what CMS intended to do.  Bernie Sanders, along with the rest of the Democrats know this -- many of them, including Bernie specifically, actually were in Congress for one or more of these charades and voted to stop CMS from putting a stop to even the smallest portion of the scams!

One valid point is made that I've brought up before in this column: Use your Passport if you need significant medical attention yet are ambulatory.  You won't believe the price difference, and the percentage of people who have things go wrong is much lower besides -- mostly because they can't charge you for their screw-ups.  It's true that you largely can't sue in such a circumstance if something does go wrong but the odds of successfully suing here are low to begin with and the risk of the bad outcome here is higher.  In fact these medical centers typically are equal or better than the best in the United States, better by half or more than the average US hospital and cost 1/10th as much or less.  As just one example you can frequently buy a  round-trip plane ticket to Narita, Japan and an MRI for what the local place wants for the scan alone!  No, that's not a joke, nor is it uncommon.  In fact when it comes to surgical procedures and other major medical interventions it is entirely common to pay roughly 10% of what equivalent care would cost in the US; if you have a 20% cost share with insurance you're still better off getting on the plane!  Why did you spend all that money on insurance premiums again?

So what's left?

I hate to say it -- because it's damned fatalistic -- but there are only two ways this will ever be addressed in the United States:

1. The government -- federal and state -- collapses under the weight of the cost-shifting, fraud, felony and demands for ever-more.  This is slated to happen as soon as 2024 from the figures currently available, and that assumes no recession.  If we get a recession (and we probably will before then) it could occur sooner.  The cascade of failures initiated by this event, which is likely to center in Medicare first, will destroy state pensions as well if they haven't already blown up by then and will be effectively unstoppable.  Doubling or more the Federal Deficit on both a permanent and instant basis without an immediate, violent reaction in the markets, which is what it would take to stop this, is impossible.

2. The people find their pitchforks and torches, last used in 1776, and tell both Federal and State Governments as a body politic, not as a few individuals, with a credible threat to follow through: "You either cut this crap out right now with something similar to the plan I've put forward, resign en-masse and be replaced by people who will, or we are collectively are going to do business with the '100 Heads' insurance company."   It is both pointless and insane to believe that a handful of individuals could do anything other than commit suicide-by-cop through such a declaration and action but if even a few percent of the ~100 million 50+ year old Americans decided they'd had enough of this crap and were not going to sit back and watch the medical system destroy them wholesale, never mind financially raping their children and grandchildren just as they reach their Senior years the people could force an end to all of this garbage tomorrow.

Of course the government would have to believe the people, en-masse, mean it.

Who knows if 2 or 3 million people showing up on the National Mall -- which incidentally is enough to blanket the whole thing all the way from the Halls of Congress down the road in front of the Monument to the White House waving signs -- would be enough.  It might.  Then again, Congress and the White House might not believe the people are serious -- and things could get pretty ugly.

There's no evidence that mere voting will solve this.  Obama promised to solve it, and didn't -- on purpose.  Trump promised to solve it, and didn't -- on purpose.  Hillary and Bill intentionally screwed everyone in the 1990s on this exact point, as did Bush; if you remember Bill ran on this issue and then both he and Hillary hosed everyone.  The existing candidates for office today on the Democrat side of the aisle were, in large part, in either State or Federal Government when Obamacare was passed and made the problem worse rather than better, moving the date of collapse forward instead of back.  The Bernie Sanders-style "answers" are not answers at all; they're active, intentional frauds.  This issue in fact has been voted on by the public more than once already and the votes cast demanding same and the promises made to the voters were immediately ignored -- on purpose.

In fact the level of financial******imposed on the people was increased each and every time.

Any sort of violent outcome is crap and to be avoided but if we the people do not force both State and Federal lawmakers, along with law enforcement at both State and Federal levels to put a stop to the scams, frauds, racketeering and price-fixing right now the worst sort of violence is inevitably in our future.  When the ever-escalating bill, which is 80% scam, cannot be paid -- a date that is soon to arrive -- the reactionary impact by the people will be extraordinarily severe and lawless.  Civil unrest that comes from collapsed governments and budgets isn't the sort of thing that people think of when they contemplate "war", whether civil or otherwise; rather it's you walking to the mailbox and some jackwad shoots you -- because for whatever reason he thinks you have something he should have and no longer does -- like a working EBT card.  Your kid then finds who he thinks shot you, which is only some of the time the right person, and shoots him.  That cycle continues much like the alleged Hatfield and McCoy feud; soon nobody really knows why anyone shot anyone in the first place, only that they need to do it next.  That is what we're headed for -- or worse.  Think Bosnia or, if you prefer, Venezuela.  We'll be lucky if we "only" get Mexico with their 8,500 homicides in the first three months of this year alone.  To put this in perspective that's roughly five times the US murder rate on a population basis.  Venezuela, incidentally, has a murder rate ten times ours (as of 2016; it's probably worse now.) 

If you think our civil society and "roaring" stock market will look anything like they do today when, not if, such a scenario comes to fruition you're out of your damn mind.  Right now poor, black neighborhoods see this sort of thing in Chicago -- 100 killed and more than 500 shot year to date, all centered in an area of roughly less than half the city's landmass -- the rest of the city has seen zero shootings.  But if you live in one of the "blue" areas on this map nobody has been killed in your neighborhood this year at all -- and you probably feel pretty safe.

Now take those red and deep maroon neighborhoods -- all five of them -- and make the entire city look like that.

Do you really think there will be a single grocery store or gas station left that hasn't been looted and burned to the ground within hours under such a circumstance?  Really?  What about when those counts are multiplied by five or ten?

They will be.

Everywhere.

This is what's at stake folks.  You may think you can sit on your ass and let things unfold but you're wrong, and if you sit on your ass or think any of the existing politicians are going to do jack without being forced to put a stop to this scam you're going to discover that you're tragically wrong, especially if you're one of the 80% of Americans that live in or near one of this nation's major population centers and those who actually make the things those cities need decide they've had enough of this crap and simply stop doing so.

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User Info In-Your-Face Felonies, Willfully Ignored in forum [Market-Ticker]
Flappingeagle
Posts: 3071
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Quote:
If we were to force a fix then the Federal Deficit goes from over $1 trillion a year to an immediate and permanent surplus and your spendable value increases this year and every year thereafter. You become wealthier even without a single raise -- ever. The only people who get "screwed" are the 20% of the population that is currently screwing you.


I was thinking about this issue this morning. Almost everything and everyone is so levered-and-margined-up-to-the-fuc*ing-hilt that put an end to any of the rackets in our system will cause the most horrible crash in the history of crashes.

Not only will it collapse the targeted industry, the collateral effects will take everything with them. Even most of the non-levered will be destroyed as well. Think about it, if you have a business with no debt you might think you are in good shape (and you are relatively) but in the collapse that comes what are you going to do for customers? You will have very few that can pay and maybe you can ride it out until things improve and maybe you cannot.

Here's a parallel issue. We hear economists state that deflation is bad because people will delay purchases and stall the economy. That is bull$hit. The real reason they fear deflation is because it will collapse the interest-debt-money scheme because loans get more difficult to repay in deflationary times. Already the Fed and Gov are doing everything they can to pump in new debt and money to keep the ponzi going, the current system cannot even tolerate debt remaining constant, it has to have more, More, MOAR!

Reforming healthcare would be one of those deflationary times and the collapse would be on.

The oncoming collapse might take several different forms but I believe one thing is guaranteed. The collapse will be down to bedrock, thru bedrock, and all the way to magma.

Flap

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Here are my predictions for everyone to see:
S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
No sign that housing, equities, or farmland are in a bubble- Yellen 11/14/13
Trying to leave the Rat Race to the rats...
Click
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This was another well written article which outlined many good points. A key point is the "money flow". Remember that old saying, "follow the money"? Add to that saying, "watch the volume and speed". Most people don't understand how capital flows work in our "Modern Monetary System". Knowing how money travels locally, nationally and globally is a necessary financial survival skill.

Skipping to solutions: the article detailed workable solutions that won't work. What do I mean? In my opinion "people are the problem". In other words, there are no workable solutions simply because human nature prevents the ignorant masses from choosing to do what's in their long-term best interest. A workable solution might be in their long-term best interest, but the ignorant masses will believe in the quick fixes that the politicians promise to be painless solutions.

So where does that leave those of us who see the economic disaster that's coming? It allows us precious time to prepare for events that will surprise 99.99% of the general public. Every sunny day that goes by is another sunny day that should be used to prepare for the rainy days ahead. For example, what happens when the big U.S. cities go nuts? I live in a very large city, so that's the paramount question I have to ask myself? I have to ask myself, "WHAT'S MY OWN PERSONAL WORKABLE SOLUTION"? Every man should be asking himself that before it's too late.

Again, great article.
Mr_clueless
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Quote:

So where does that leave those of us who see the economic disaster that's coming?

What makes you think an economic disaster is coming? People have been calling for it since 2009 but it has not happened. There are problems but it's not something that is going to cause a disaster. If one lives one's life forever preparing for a disaster that doesn't happen, is that a life worth living?
Drifter
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Pacific Northwest
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@Mr: Life is worth living, that's why people prepare for mishaps and disasters, such as: home invasion, hurricanes, first aid kits, putting on your seat belt, wearing a life preserver, pre-nup, life insurance... etc etc.

What's so arduous about having some extra food, ammo, water and a genset?
Smacktle
Posts: 1920
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Texas
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People make a living preparing.

Www.survivalblog.com

I just found a stash I squirreled away in 2009. Bunch of ammo, food, knives etc... That was actually fun!

Preparing can be fun!

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The faults of the burglar are the qualities of the financier.
- George Bernard Shaw
Tickerguy
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Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@Mr_Clueless -
Quote:
What makes you think an economic disaster is coming? People have been calling for it since 2009 but it has not happened. There are problems but it's not something that is going to cause a disaster. If one lives one's life forever preparing for a disaster that doesn't happen, is that a life worth living?

There were plenty of people who were utterly destroyed in 2008, losing literally everything.

And in 2000, for that matter. I knew someone who got buttraped in 2000 by taking exactly your attitude in the late 1990s and wound up blowing his own head off when he realized he was going to go from being very well off to literally homeless and jobless and there was nothing he could do about it. If he hadn't been such a pig he would have had less but been more-or-less ok. He was one of the dudes that taunted me through the last two years of my running MCSNet that I hadn't aggressively bought, on margin, every Internet stock out there as I was sure to make 10 or even 100x my money doing it.

What makes you think it can't happen again when it did twice on roughly 10 year intervals, and what makes you think you're immune, especially since you can't predict the magnitude -- but the last one was worse than the previous one, and the imbalances that were present in 08 are larger now -- just as they were in 08 .vs. 00.

Never mind that if you put that effort in and it DOESN'T happen what have you lost? Less glam and bull**** that you couldn't really afford in the first place? If you live like it CAN'T happen and it does you may well be at best eating catfood, and at worst BE food.

Frankly if you do that and it happens, given your attitude you deserve it.

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Winding it down.
Mangymutt
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Mr_clueless....cute name given your response.

Would you take any long journey without properly preparing for it? More than likely not, you would pack the clothes and supplies you need to not only give you the comforts that are important to you, but also offer you protection.

Some on this site have put out great target dates and factual reasoning on when things can break....and 2024 is one of those dates. Of course that date could be delayed 2-5-7 even 10 years. No one really knows. Heck it could happen tomorrow for all we know.

If you knew your journey was going to cover dangerous roads, heck there might not even be roads in some spots. If on your journey you did not know where the next watering hole or food supply was, would you not try and prepaid for that trip to the best of your ability?

No time in the history of the human mind has there been so much built on debt. As this Ticker points out the debt is so vast that theft has become the business model. Today? Tomorrow? 10 years from now? The last dime will be pulled forward and payment will be demanded in earnest.

What will you value then? Your house? Your car? Or just a means to survive?

No one knows just how bad it will get, just like no one knows just when this starts to take place.

But if you want to deny the reality of the world we live in today the least I can do for you is show you respect and make sure to address your cluelessness as Mr.....clueless.
Click
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"People have been calling for it since 2009 but it has not happened."

Actually, people have been calling for "it" for much longer than that. I remember the 70s and early 80s back when many Libertarians (myself included) thought "this is it, the U.S. is going to collapse". First, inflation was a problem then stagflation then interest rates. Americans were getting a good ass kicking. NYC was awash with vice and corruption and it was difficult to make a buck. Times were tough. Upstate NY felt like a depression. I basically lived in both locations, so I remember how it felt.

Fast forward to 2008-2009: that also seemed like the U.S. economy was on the verge of a disaster. Remember when the Dow was bottoming? Remember Lehman Brothers? So for many it was a "personal disaster". Frankly, I'm glad that America didn't suffer a total breakdown. It's not going to be a nice place to live when it happens.

So, currently, here I am in Houston, Texas. And I don't scare easily. I'm not scared of an imminent collapse; however, I'm ready for one. In fact, I'm ready for the big one. Think of it as "insurance". On the other hand, I'm also ready to prosper in both the city of Houston and the state of Texas and the Swamp that some people call America --- I'm ready for however long this corrupt Swamp continues on.

To anybody who thinks that "disaster" isn't coming and it's a waste of time to prepare for it, then don't worry be happy. Live your life like it's impossible for the lights to go out. As for me, I'm not just thinking of me. I'm thinking long-term for my grandchildren. If I don't live to see the next Great Depression, then my grandchildren will inherit my belongings via a trust fund and other means. But what they won't get, unfortunately, is my vast knowledge and skill set on how to manage the lock, stock and barrel of a successful Depression era business, ranch, farm and homestead. Knowledge that was passed on to me by old timers as I learned through hands-on experience. And that kind of knowledge and wisdom is just as valuable as money. And in some cases more so.

Lack of knowledge can kill the ignorant. Lack of skills, lack of resources and lack of preparation is what I see EVERYWHERE.

Good luck when the JIT and SCADA systems fail to keep the power, water, food, fuel and medical supplies flowing into the city and the sewerage and garbage flowing out. That's the day 99.99% learn what SHTF really feels like.
Mr_clueless
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@Tickerguy

The folks that were destroyed in 2000 or 2008 were folks with excessive leverage. Anybody just living a normal life with a regular portfolio of stocks and bonds saw a brief downturn and then recovered. Speculators got destroyed. But that is different from the "canned food, guns, and ammunition" type scenario that is discussed as a doomsday outcome. Can it happen--it certainly can, but at some point preparing for that type of outcome is not meaningful. It would be akin to buying expensive flood insurance in an area that hasn't experienced a flood in the last 100 years.

@ Mangymutt

We do prepare for normal/likely things that are likely to come up during a journey. We don't prepare for a volcanic eruption or being hit by an asteroid. In this scenario, the preparation is living within one's means without excess leverage. At one extreme one can be over-leveraged buying stocks and real estate and living extravagantly. At the other extreme one can trying to live "off the grid" and accumulating resources for a doomsday scenario when currency no longer works. I'm talking about being somewhere in the middle.
Goforbroke
Posts: 7532
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The tadpole and I are hunkering down.
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KD is right ... it's gotten to the point where even the legislative path won't work.

Before you read the rest, do some googling on "balance billing." It will make the following much more meaningful. And, yes, I am currently one involved from a consumer end. Chargemaster of $2700, repriced amount of $130. I am being told to pay the $2700 because of "balance billing," and yet it was an in-network yet not covered service.

Anyways ...

In 2017, in Ohio HB 52 was passed which mandated that healthcare providers provide a good faith estimate prior to service, except in the case of emergency. This was to eliminate "surprise billing" (google it).

On 12/22/16, in (relatively minor) Williams County Court of Common Pleas, a suit was filed by a plethora of provider advocacy groups (Case # 16CI000128) which requested an injunction for putting this law into effect because "providers of the state will be irreparably harmed." In 2/2019, the judge ruled for the injunction, claiming that the law, RC5162.80, "was unconstitutional."

On 3/14/2019, the State filed an appeal in Ohio 6th Circuit Court of Appeals (19WM000001, 19 WM000002 ... the case history nor documents is/are not accessible online).

Look at the original case and the behemoths against which the common man is going. http://pa.wmsco.org/eservices/search.pag....

COMMUNITY HOSPITALS AND WELLNESS CENTERS - Plaintiff
OHIO HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION - Plaintiff
OHIO STATE MEDICAL ASSOCIATION - Plaintiff
OHIO PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION - Plaintiff
OHIO PHYSICAL THERAPY ASSOCIATION - Plaintiff
OHIO CHAPTER OF THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS - Plaintiff
OHIO CHAPTER OF THE AMERICAN COLLEGE OF SURGEONS - Plaintiff
OHIO OSTEOPATHIC ASSOCIATION - Plaintiff

Furthermore, in 2017, Sherrod Brown sponsored the "End Surprise Billing Act of 2017 -- S.284." It has gotten absolutely nowhere.

Hoping that the legislative route will work is just that. Hoping.

All of this coming soon to a theater near you (if it hasn't already).

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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our Light, and not our Darkness, that most frightens us. -- Marianne Williamson

Tickerguy
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@Mr_Clueless --
Quote:
It would be akin to buying expensive flood insurance in an area that hasn't experienced a flood in the last 100 years.

And this is exactly the sort of stupidity that I'm talking about.

Most people in fact don't buy such insurance. Do you realize why that's dumb?

Probably not.

Humans are in fact quite bad at running statistical probabilities on events like this and figuring out how dangerous they really are.

The United States has undergone three shooting wars on our soil since 1776, or on average about one every 81 years. You might say "well but the last one was in the 1860s so that's a false set of claims" and my riposte is "Yeah, and if you made it through 1776 and got it again 36 years later you might disagree!"

In fact WWI was called "The War to End All Wars."

How'd that work out for pretty-much everyone in Europe?

Here's the ugly reality -- you are odds-on to be at least in a nation that undergoes a violent conflict on its own soil during an average human lifetime. That doesn't mean you get sacked -- there was plenty of land that wasn't during the Civil War, and outside of a few areas the War of 1812 didn't trash many people's "stuff" either. But it does mean you get to live through it both economically and, if you get unlucky, personally.

The odds are materially worse, incidentally, in Europe than they are in North America which makes their idiocy when it comes to personal firearms ownership even more outrageous.

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Winding it down.
Click
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"It [excessive preparation] would be akin to buying expensive flood insurance in an area that hasn't experienced a flood in the last 100 years."

You mean some place like Houston during Harvey? My land and all of the structures on it had no record of ever flooding until Harvey, yet I had expensive flood insurance. Moreover, guess whose house was the only house in the entire neighborhood which didn't have to have the Coast Guard rescue unprepared dimwits?

I was spending the summer at the Grand Canyon when Harvey struck, so I missed all of the fun; but my sons and six others benefited from me being "excessively" prepared. They had plenty of food, water, backup power and some high ground.

Regarding asteroids, volcanism, super grand solar minimums, magnetic pole reversal, magnetosphere collapse, super solar flares and the grand daddy of them all, a micro nova from our Sun: here is where I personally stand on all of that: I'm a Catastrophist; which means I'm not part of the 99.99%, I'm part of the 00.01% who understand just how vulnerable is the little blue marble we call, "Earth". ... Which also means I have very expensive catastrophy insurance, too.

The fact of the matter is that Randell Carlson, Robert Schoch and Graham Hancock are upending the main stream views on how often Earth has suffered and shall again suffer through cataclysmic events... What shapes Earth is not just millions upon millions of years of geological gradualism only. Included in the gradualism found in the Geologic Time Scale is massive punctuated change on a scale of which is far greater and occuring far more often than the ignorant masses are even remotely aware. But awareness is growing thanks to individuals like Joe Rogan whose interviews are now reaching millions. Joe just did an interview with Graham Hancock 3 days ago regarding Graham's brilliant new book, and already it has about two million views on YouTube alone. So the truth is finally getting out decades after Charlton Heston did that spectacular documentary back in the day on the true age of the Sphinx based on Robert Schoch's work...

The bottom line is that man-made collapse isn't the only risk to modern civilization, Mother Nature can, has and shall deliver a far greater blow...

Well, I've probably perturbed Karl enough with all of this Doomsday talk, so goodnight.
Mr_clueless
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@ Tickerguy

Things are a bit different now then they were back then. Technology is much advanced and the govt. has the advantage. I just can't see how something like that could happen. Look at France (and much of Europe). Things are not great, but they are far from being out of control. At every step, the folks in power have the advantage. The only the populace can do is protest peacefully. Any violence will be crushed in no time.
Redjack
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Iowa
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<I> It would be akin to buying expensive flood insurance in an area that hasn't experienced a flood in the last 100 years.</I><BR>

Let me spin you a personal story.

You may have seen, or not, the massive flooding in Nebraska. Half the infrastructure in the Eastern side of the state is gone. By gone as in if you look at Highway 30 near where I grew up, it is gone. 4 lanes just gone.

My later grandparents spent their life living in that area (both sides). They saw development start in areas that had seen flooding. The same statement "It has flooded there in 100 years!" was made.

Both of my grandfathers built for the floods. One build up his house so if the river next door was 10 feet over record flood stage he would be ok, the other moved the the farm up hill.

They never saw the flood that just happened. Both are long dead. But the preperations they made allowed my family to be unaffected. The ones in the "hasn't hit here in a 100 years!" lost everything. And I mean everything.

Neither made the move in a day. It was over a period of time. Neither saw the fruit of their labors. But the family did. My cousin watched his neighbor lose it all. Millions of dollars of rolling stock, live stock, land, and personal possessions in a hundred year flood while he road it out in relative comfort. A little company called COSTCO lost a lot of their proposed chicken farms and processing capacity because they built where the land was cheap, and the 100 year flood came. A lot of beef went down the river (look at the cattle futures) because people got greedy and forgot what happened before.

In short. You plan for the flood. You plan for the storm. Sometimes you can't plant enough, but I have seen to many people say "It will NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!" and get destroyed to bet on sunny weather forever.
Hot-dog-guy
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Karl, with respect, I think I have identified a problem. I have read through your historic literature on the topic and found it difficult to condense into bullet points.

To be blunt, and I'm sure you know this, you are just dazzlingly intelligent, you have rare qualities of recall, I suspect you are on the "idactic" end of the spectrum, your mathematical and computational capabilities are beyond most aspirations. You aren't a single-factor genius, you are a multi-spectral genius. I have only met maybe 3 people on your level in my life.

I further suspect that when you go into rant mode, there's this gap. There's this missing final piece of logic in the puzzle. I think this might reflect your genuine frustration at how the rest of us just don't get it.

This is characteristic of true genius too. You tend to presume a certain level of intelligence that simply does not exist for most of us.

Maybe other readers can help condense your theory. I'm looking for "Denninger For Dummies".

15 USC 1.5 broadly describes monopolistic behavior, price-fixing, discrimination of services of like-and-kind and fraud (misrepresentation of services). Additionally there's the issue of implied consent to services. Did I miss any of the basics? I feel this inner need to dissect these.

None of this is intended to suggest that I don't love your rant mode. I love the smell of napalm in the morning. Smells like victory.
Tickerguy
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@Mr_Clueless -
Quote:
Things are a bit different now then they were back then. Technology is much advanced and the govt. has the advantage. I just can't see how something like that could happen. Look at France (and much of Europe). Things are not great, but they are far from being out of control. At every step, the folks in power have the advantage. The only the populace can do is protest peacefully. Any violence will be crushed in no time.

Hahahaha....

TPTB haven't invented Superman-style powers. Your "faith" is amusing; the government can't even manage to handle one city's worth of natural disaster at a given time. Not then, not now. The resources simply don't exist. The day the people decide they've had enough of this crap is the day it ends -- whether the government likes it or not.

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Winding it down.
Greenrebellion
Posts: 534
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Why does literally NO ONE talk about the health care fraud. You don't see it on TV, not even Fox News. You don't see it on websites, not even zerohedge. You don't see it in newspapers. Honestly, this is the only place I've ever found that talks about it to any material degree.

Going to be tough to get a mass of people to take action when there simply are only a handful of people that truly understand the criminal extent of the US Healthcare system.
Flappingeagle
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The government is pretty good at handling what are actually localized disasters. A hurricane in what is actually a small part of Florida, floods in Nebraska, etc. So part of a state has a catastrophe, the remaining 47.5 (of the lower 48) can be used as a base and supply goods and services to help the unfortunate. Yes, you can be on your own for 3 days very easily and maybe even a week but all you need are some short-term supplies to make a week.

The story is much different when there is a nationwide problem.

Flap

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S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
No sign that housing, equities, or farmland are in a bubble- Yellen 11/14/13
Trying to leave the Rat Race to the rats...
Tickerguy
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@Greenrebellion -- Why? Oh, simple -- they all know what happens if you go down that hole.

CATO has pointed out that in their estimation half of all health-care spend is either (1) fraudulent or (2) unnecessary.

In other words you go in for a "routine" thing, the bill sent to "insurance" is $200 but that was up-coded; what you actually had, and saw the doc for, was a $100 incident. That's 50% and it's fraud.

Or, you go to get your appendix out, they do it, give you an infection and instead of $5,000 worth of medicine you have $20,000 worth of medicine "done" to you. That's 75% unnecessary; they GAVE YOU the other $15,000 worth of "need"!

BTW one of the cites in that book FROM THE MEDICAL SOCIETIES THEMSELVES is that fully ONE THIRD of doctors admit to defrauding the system by "upcoding." That's self-admitted felony! How many are actually doing it? I bet the real percentage is "nearly all, if not all."

Note that this documentation from CATO is before you get into ANY of the 15 USC Chapter 1 fraud and felony! How much is THAT on top of it? Another half, at least.

Well now we're within spitting distance of 80% aren't we?

IF you do ANY of this, however, the impact on all these "mavens" of today's business world -- and the stock market -- is instantaneous and severe. Never mind that if the people figure out that they've been routinely butt****ed for 15% or more of their income and a significant number of people, likely including a friend or family member, has been bankrupted, harmed or even killed by INTENTIONAL carelessness or worse you might actually get some percentage of the 330 million Americans to find their pitchfork, torch and maybe even a gallon of gasoline to go with it.

Why has there been ZERO press on the CATO book? That would be why. Why do NONE of the media want to talk with me about any of this? That would be why. Why did LEVERAGE, which incidentally has a FULL SECTION on this (and on which I've expanded since its publication) get effectively "memory-holed" by the press instead of being covered? THAT WOULD BE WHY.

Incidentally there was, right after Trump's election, supposedly a series of meetings with various actual health care providers (real docs, and really good docs) which I was going to be a part of. Postponed twice, and then indefinitely -- never rescheduled. Gee, I wonder why?

You think Trump doesn't know all of this having run a company for 20+ years? Bull****. If I figured it out and was all over it almost immediately when MCSNet got ass-rammed a few times by the health "insurance" complex that was part of our benefit system do you really think HE doesn't know exactly what the **** is going on and how criminal it is?

Like Hell he doesn't.

The only way politicians will take this on and fix it instead of pulling Chris Christie's is if and when the people en-masse find that pitchfork and torch and make clear that this crap either stops RIGHT ****ING NOW "or else." One or a few people will simply be jailed or shot if they get "uppity" about it. But if even a single percent of the population decided they were not going to put up with this **** and it was going to stop NOW that would be the end of it in a single afternoon; there is not a snowball's chance in Hell that all the cops in the land could do a ******ned thing about two or three MILLION people deciding as a group to take that decision IF THEY ACTUALLY MEANT IT.

Nor does any of this need "new laws" -- so were the people to decide this neither you or they are advocating for "lawlessness", "anarchy" or anything like it. You're in fact demanding that EXISTING 100+ year old law be enforced RIGHT DAMN NOW or you're going to act with exactly as much regard for the law AS THE MEDICAL SYSTEM HAS -- that is, NONE.

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Winding it down.

Asimov
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Green: Why? Money. Gobs and gobs of money.

TRAIN LOADS of cash.

Why, exactly, do you think there are so many medical ads on the major broadcasters?

It's CERTAINLY NOT because you need to know about some stupid drug your doctor will be recommending anyway if he thinks he can get away with telling you that you need it.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Goforbroke
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Only six states provide protection for balance billing ... FL, CA, CT, IL, MD, NY.

12 states provide limited protection with hold harmless provisions. CO is one of them. These states still allow providers to send bills, and in CO, providers have sent bills where the patient may not understand the right to not pay the balance portion.

The rest? They can charge whatever they want up to the billable amount (Chargemaster price).

The fraud is in every nook and cranny of the system and will be impossible to eradicate without killing the whole beast.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/fam....

Quote:
But even though the hospital was in-network the term used to describe agreements for reduced rates negotiated between providers and insurance companies the plastic surgeon who operated on Reid Rupp was not. Five weeks later, the Rupps received a medical bill for more than $17,000.

Surprise billing the term used in the industry has become more common as hospitals contract out for more services. About 65 percent of U.S. hospitals contract out their ER staffing and management, according to 2014 data from Merritt Hawkins, a physician staffing company.

Christman (the doctor) said he couldnt specifically discuss Rupps case because of patient confidentiality.

Christmans office and his debt collector have continued to try to bill the Rupps. A June 21, 2017, letter from Christmans accounts receivable department to Reids father Christopher says: Please be advised that there are two ways of settling this debt timely payments or protracted and unpleasant collection effort. At this time the choice is still yours. Please send payment today.

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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our Light, and not our Darkness, that most frightens us. -- Marianne Williamson

Tickerguy
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Quote:
The rest? They can charge whatever they want up to the billable amount (Chargemaster price).

And the people can burn to the ground whatever they want too -- politically or otherwise. A single person who does so physically can be (and WILL be!) either labeled a felon and jailed or shot.

But a million people at once who decide that's the end of that bull**** right here and now? Good luck with that Mr. Hospital Administrator -- and cops. smiley

So why the **** aren't the people in the damned streets? There are only a few of them and a ****LOAD of citizens.

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Winding it down.
Jack_crabb
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Mr. Clueless is appropriately named.

That is all.

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Molon Labe
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Asimov
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Quote:
So why the **** aren't the people in the damned streets? There are only a few of them and a ****LOAD of citizens.


Societal norms and indoctrination.

At some point they will break down and when they do, it's gonna be messy. Just like so many other times in history.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
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