Civility?
The Market Ticker - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Logging in or registering will improve your experience here
Main Navigation
Display list of topics
Sarah's Resources You Should See
Sarah's Blog Buy Sarah's Pictures
Full-Text Search & Archives
Legal Disclaimer

The content on this site is provided without any warranty, express or implied. All opinions expressed on this site are those of the author and may contain errors or omissions.

NO MATERIAL HERE CONSTITUTES "INVESTMENT ADVICE" NOR IS IT A RECOMMENDATION TO BUY OR SELL ANY FINANCIAL INSTRUMENT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO STOCKS, OPTIONS, BONDS OR FUTURES.

The author may have a position in any company or security mentioned herein. Actions you undertake as a consequence of any analysis, opinion or advertisement on this site are your sole responsibility.

Market charts, when present, used with permission of TD Ameritrade/ThinkOrSwim Inc. Neither TD Ameritrade or ThinkOrSwim have reviewed, approved or disapproved any content herein.

The Market Ticker content may be sent unmodified to lawmakers via print or electronic means or excerpted online for non-commercial purposes provided full attribution is given and the original article source is linked to. Please contact Karl Denninger for reprint permission in other media, to republish full articles, or for any commercial use (which includes any site where advertising is displayed.)

Submissions or tips on matters of economic or political interest may be sent "over the transom" to The Editor at any time. To be considered for publication your submission must include full and correct contact information and be related to an economic or political matter of the day. All submissions become the property of The Market Ticker.

Considering sending spam? Read this first.

2018-10-31 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in Editorial , 226 references Ignore this thread
Civility?
[Comments enabled]

So suddenly we have people demanding civility -- after the "it's all right-wing" lie was exposed.  Not only was the prop mailer clearly a flat nutjob (and apparently had a rather large list of people he intended to send props to), not only was he all over social media a few years ago praising Code Pink as "real women", but, well.... he just doesn't work real well as a right wing terrorist.

Then the other shoe, er, mass-murder dropped -- a nutjob who decided to shoot up a synagogue.  Not exactly the sort of "right winger" one expects, given Trump's (and the right's general) support for Israel -- and by extension Jewish people.  Oops.  Suddenly the narrative looks increasingly shaky -- that this really is just about nuts and social instability generally, rather than one side .vs. the other.

Never mind the left's incessant incitement to assault, harassment and even riot -- Antifa anyone?  Or Maxine Waters exhorting people to run Republicans out of.... restaurants!

So here's the deal, as I see it.  The left -- and many on the right -- have made a mockery of the Rule of Law for decades.  They've set the example -- all through Congress in point of fact and through the Executive, including our former and current President.  I remind you that the Executive is required to faithfully execute the laws of the land, not (illegally) run guns to Mexican drug lords or look the other way while the medical system robs Americans of over $3 trillion a year.

Then you have the media, pundits and even Paul Ryan, who all claim that the 14th Amendment protects and confers birthright citizenship.  This despite the clear congressional record at the time by Senator Howard, the sponsor in the Senate, who explicitly said otherwise.

...[E]very person born within the limits of the United State, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of person.[2]

Even Wikipedia, a hard-left publication, admits this to be the true text of his speech.

People like to cite the case of Wong Kim Ark, which went to the Supreme Court 30 years later.  But Ark's parents were legal permanent US residents.   That clearly does not apply to either birth tourism or illegal invaders coming here while pregnant or becoming pregnant after arrival and cranking out a child to avoid deportation and avail themselves of the rights of US Citizens.

Never mind that Congress had to pass a specific law in the early 1900s to address this issue with native Americans -- who were clearly born on American soil.  The intent of the 14th Amendment is clear and so was Congressional intent -- which is why a specific law was needed to deal with native Americans.  This is not subject to dispute as it is historical fact and the Democrats, and leftists in general, have been lying about this very fact for decades.

But more on the left for a minute.  Nobody on the right disrupted a Clinton -- or Sanders -- speech with violence including property destruction and assault.  But several on the left did so, including the outright locking down of the University of Chicago during the last Presidential campaign, prohibiting now-President Trump from delivering an address there.  The violence of so-called antifa has continued since.  Where are the felony charges?

When Mueller suddenly gets hit with an allegation of sexual assault that appears quite suspect even though Kavanaugh was literally raked over the coals by one of the same void level of provenance there is "concern" and "retractions."  Where are they on the Kavanaugh/Swetnick claims?  Note that in the Kavanaugh case there is evidence of intentional spiking of a story by NBC news which knew one of the alleged "witnesses" had claimed not only that she had been misrepresented but that she had been outright conned, yet they sat on the story until after the confirmation was complete and a criminal referral was made by Senator Grassley.  

Peace beats war.  Especially civil war.

But not if the terms of "peace" are capitulation and, much worse, do not include atonement and admission of prior sins by the people suing for peace.

So here are my terms, and what I argue should be everyone's terms:

  • No more birthright citizenship.  Revoke it immediately - period.  It was clearly not the intent of the authors of the 14th Amendment and any claim otherwise is a bald lie.  That legislation was required to deal with this for native Americans, along with the original text of the speeches by the sponsoring Senator and others when the 14th Amendment was debated and passed is historical fact.

  • No more illegal invaders.  They leave -- now -- all of them.  Those who try to come (like this "caravan") are treated as an invasion force and the nation(s) they travel through are declared complicit and actively involved and thus fomenting an invasion of a sovereign nation -- ours, to be specific.  All of their assets in the US are seized, all trade ceases and all money flows stop.  Period.  We put up whatever wall we need and if they continue to try to come we repel them by force if necessary.  Mexico either chooses to stop this crap right damn now or every single bit of their financial and trade connections with the US are severed.  Period.  At the same time 100% E-Verify is enforced and any employer who does not use it and cannot prove it goes to prison and their firm is seized and shut down.  Enough!

  • No more "not my President" and "Resist" crap, and anyone in the government doing so must be outed and dismissed right here and now.  This includes but certainly is not limited to everyone involved in that "bomber farce" where it is clear that couriers were used to carry packages already flagged for political purposes.  I want names, I want ranks, I want offices and I want it all in public with them out right now, no pensions, no retirements, nothing -- you're done and you're prosecuted.  Period.  Ditto for any other scheme uncovered in any other branch of the government all the way back to the election and forward forever whoever wins in the future.

  • The rule of law is enforced right now on the medical monopolists -- end of discussion. "Most-favored nation" pricing for drugs becomes law.  Robinson-Patman, Sherman and Clayton are enforced on all medical providers and insurance firms.  Everyone pays the same price for the same product or service -- period.  Any who try to conspire to restrain trade or price-fix go to prison.  This happens now and is enforced nationally starting tomorrow.  (Yes, this will produce an instant recession -- a very deep one -- but it will be short-lived and we will be the most-competitive nation for business inside of 12 months.  Suck it up folks and do it.)  You will no longer need Obamacare or anything like it, even with pre-existing conditions.  A plan to implement this is found right here.

  • No more outright horsecrap out of the media.  There's no law to enforce here so this is entirely voluntary.  However, as far as I'm concerned if CNN, NBC, the NY Times and Washington Post (among others) won't cut this crap out I will raise a glass and toast if they are all reduced to ash when the shooting, looting and burning starts -- and it will, it is just a matter of time.  We all have political bias and the right to our opinion but the outright lies promulgated by these people are outrageous and must not stand.  If there is to be "peace" then it must include an immediate cessation of this crap not only today but forward on a permanent basis as this is a major cause of partisan hatred.  Here's looking at Acosta you ****face but make no mistake -- the entirety of CNN's executive management and board of directors approve or that piece of **** would have been fired long ago.

  • Technology and financial firms that attempt to "de-platform" companies for alleged "hate speech" or other discretionary discriminatory practices are shut down instantly.  This must end now.  Utility services are just that, and in this world of information they may not discriminate.  Period.  GoDaddy must be destroyed, as just one example, as must PayPal if both do not immediately and permanently end their discriminatory practices.  No ifs, ands or buts -- period.

I can keep going (specifically on the 2nd Amendment) but that will do for now.

If those terms are unacceptable as a minimum, not as an "opening bid" to be negotiated down from then screw you if you're suing for peace.  I'm not interested if "peace" means subjugation, lies and more invaders.  I'll take the other option as much as it will suck because we're headed there anyway within the next few years via fiscal and economic collapse if we don't cut this crap out right ****ing now.

If that's where we're going then let's get it over with.

Go to responses (registration required to post)
 

 
Comments.......
User: Not logged on
Login Register Top Blog Top Blog Topics FAQ
User Info Civility? in forum [Market-Ticker]
Aquapura
Posts: 784
Incept: 2012-04-19

South of Canada
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I can accept those terms.
Emg
Posts: 249
Incept: 2012-11-20

Canada
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
The left only demand civility when the're losing, and it works because cucks have always been eager to roll over before, rather than destroy them.
Djloche
Posts: 3850
Incept: 2008-07-07

Vancouver, WA
Online
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Those calling for civility will get none. They will be lucky to get BBQ sauce before they are eaten.


----------
"The Constitution is the IDE. The 2nd Amendment is the debugger."
Goldmanssack
Posts: 2038
Incept: 2009-07-08

38320 / 07849
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
smileysmileysmileysmiley

----------
"But like every one of the super-states that preceded it, it has one iron rule: Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." - The Obsolete Man, The Twilight Zone, 1961.
Mangymutt
Posts: 724
Incept: 2015-05-03

Vancouver WA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
The only issue I have with those terms is what is to become of the already established Birth Right Citizens?

I am not speaking of children who still reside and are dependent on their parents, but the ones who where born in the United States to foreign nationals, but have lived in the U.S. and out grown their parents.

In my eyes the parents are firstly at fault and second it is the fault of the people who allowed this scam to not only take root, but to flourish. The child being born holds no fault, but as minors should be subject to their parents actions.

Birth right children should have always been considered the nationality of their parent/s but the fact is our politicians have turned a blind eye to this for over 50 years and that equals grown adults who know nor other country but the United States.

What of them?
Tickerguy
Posts: 154882
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
@Mangymutt -- The answer on a retroactive basis is "You're a permanent resident, but not a citizen, provided you're at least 18 years of age. You can apply for citizenship as can any other permanent resident, demonstrating that you have paid ALL your taxes and have NO criminal record of ANY sort, exactly as anyone else must demonstrate. If you cannot so-demonstrate then your petition will be denied (exactly as it would be for anyone else)."

----------
Winding it down.
Click
Posts: 336
Incept: 2017-06-26

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I don't think Karl really believes that his terms will be accepted by the other side.

This fight is to the death. That's what I believe.

On the one side there is a long list including but not limited to American culture, English as the predominant language, The Bill of Rights, personal responsibility and accountability and success or failure in life based on QI, work ethic, creativity, productivity, charisma, talent, business acumen and so on and so forth. The individuals who belong to this group have been losing badly for the past 100 years. And I see no change in trend.

On the opposing side of this fight to the death (i.e., the winning side for the past 100 years) is also a long list including but not limited to Marxism and all of its variants, Latin American political ideologies such as Peronism, European collectivism, an army of American Progressives, a large herd of RINOs and the most devastatingly destructive group of all: the ignorant masses who desire a Big Brother to care for their every need.

It's the ignorant masses who are mostly to blame. They get the government they deserve. Unfortunately, the rest of us have to suffer, too.

I predict that when the next Great Depression hits is the time when one group finally prevails completely over the other. The only other possibility I see is both groups inflicting enough damage on each other that a tipping point is crossed and Western Civilization collapses into a Dark Age...




Tickerguy
Posts: 154882
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
@Click -- the economic dislocation is starting NOW. And the folks at the Fed know it too -- I just heard a commentator affiliated with same state what I've been saying for a while, which is that the federal deficit spending has a NEGATIVE multiplier on output.

They know. And the problem is that said negative multiplier means the deficit will grow due to that negative multiplier; this is not a one-off, but rather an exponentially-increasing disaster, and it will detonate within the next handful of years.

----------
Winding it down.
Wifi
Posts: 818
Incept: 2013-02-13

Seagrove Beach
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
This should be pinned, damn fine ticker!

----------
Hurricane Evacuation Plan
1.Grab Beer
2.Run Like Hell
Xqqme
Posts: 742
Incept: 2009-01-09

Ohio
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
IMHO the next Great Depression happens when there is no faith left in the 'system'
Been hoarding 'seed corn'. But it just occurred to me, what if there is no fertile soil in which to plant?
Vernonb
Posts: 2260
Incept: 2009-06-03

East of Sheol
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Yep.... those are minimum terms..

The sad fact is that law enforcement is so corrupt in itself they will never address the issue.

The first thing to do is dismantle the fbi and start anew. Otherwise nothing but a mob will finally bring justice.

----------
"Mass intelligence does not mean intelligent masses."
Click
Posts: 336
Incept: 2017-06-26

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
"The economic dislocation is starting NOW".

Regarding the market: I'm still sitting on the bench; however, it's is worth repeating what I said a month ago. If I had to choose, I'd short the stock and bond market. My bais remains short the rallies in growth stocks. If an individual knows how to short high-beta growth stocks, then the risk seems favorable in my opinion. If I had to buy stocks, I'd weight almost totally defensive at this point. But that's just my opinion, and I don't offer advice.

The real malinvestment is the historical low price of risk. Interest rates are at a 5000 year low. The EU actually has 1.7 trillion in negative interest rates. Currently, the Swiss 10 yr bond is yielding -0.01.... And those are just two examples. Don't even get me started on the BBB grade bonds. I wish Ludwig von Mises was alive to see and offer a comment on this unbelievable, global credit expansion.

And what about the central banks? Does the Fed really know that their dynamic stochastic general equilibrium model is not going to warn them of an impending crash? I think a lot of those PhDs actually believe in their models. None of the models warned of the 2008 crash, yet they still believe. It's just crazy. I wonder how many of them really know how dangerous it is for Western Civilization to deliberately misprice tens of trillions in risk assets?

I don't know just when the nuclear malinvestment bomb(s) "detonate" or what triggers them, but I do know that the fallout from will kill off whatever "civility" is left in an already deeply divided America.

Civility will be replaced with overt hostility when the bonds hit the fan.


Mickey
Posts: 40
Incept: 2014-05-19

Chic
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Why worry--the US is becoming a Banana Republic due to diversity and bankruptcy

When you have time, take a look at these videos of the Liberals the last 25 years calling for closed borders, appropriate flow of the right people, fences, asimilation (first by speaking english).

these videos illustrate what type of people we are dealing with. And the beauty of it is most was said in Congressional Sessions or in Bill Clintons situation at the state of the union. Obama was like this before and after he became president.These are two faced sobs'

my simple rule is "what do they bring to the party"-if they add to the strength of the US all is ok with me. If not, then turn around and walk away. But they have to fit in and add to the country.

Ask not what the US can do for you, ask what you can do for the US (changed JFKs commnet a bit-but that does that make me a liberal?)




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdAyn89h....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=728SW65t....
Bernie Sanders:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw3K0F6G....
this next one from Sanders really funny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-k6qOf....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUP7wEVv....

This adds Harry Reid from 1993

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWc1qT8M....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12e6uKM8....

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4656370/s....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUWJHmRj....

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4631739/b....


Rickysa
Posts: 2107
Incept: 2007-08-22

Southern Pines, NC
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
On the one side there is a long list including but not limited to American culture, English as the predominant language, The Bill of Rights, personal responsibility and accountability and success or failure in life based on QI, work ethic, creativity, productivity, charisma, talent, business acumen and so on and so forth. The individuals who belong to this group have been losing badly for the past 100 years. And I see no change in trend.

On the opposing side of this fight to the death (i.e., the winning side for the past 100 years) is also a long list including but not limited to Marxism and all of its variants, Latin American political ideologies such as Peronism, European collectivism, an army of American Progressives, a large herd of RINOs and the most devastatingly destructive group of all: the ignorant masses who desire a Big Brother to care for their every need.


Our Revolutions Logic :

It's a rather longish article but seems to articulate quite nicely the state we are in regarding division:

Quote:
The American republics essence had been self-restraint toward fellow citizens deemed equals. The Constitution of 1787 had been its paradigm. Under its words and by its laws, Americans had enjoyed safety and predictability for themselves and their way of life. But Progressives subordination of the Constitution, laws, and institutions to their own purposes and for their own primacy ended all that. The rest of Americas increasing realization that only fire can fight fire has followed naturally.

This is our revolution: Because a majority of Americans now no longer share basic sympathies and trust, because they no longer regard each other as worthy of equal consideration, the public and private practices that once had made our Republic are now beyond reasonable hope of restoration. Strife can only mount until some new equilibrium among us arises.


https://americanmind.org/essays/our-revo....

feedback most welcome.
Flyanddive
Posts: 3190
Incept: 2008-10-10

Detroit
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
The House flip likely coming next week, will amplify these problems x100.

----------
"I've seen people go into real poverty trying to pretend to be rich."
Mickey
Posts: 40
Incept: 2014-05-19

Chic
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Another thought:

we have the debt ceiling coming up I think Dec 7, kicked from Sept 30 which was kicked from March 31.

In the past, the Treasury Secretary resorted to extraordinary issues to keep the doors of govt open, but the Tres secretary has sufficent tax revenues coming in to pay for debt service and Soc Sec, medicare, Medicaid Military etc--the big stuff. This time around, the way I see it, is tax revenues stay stable at maybe 260 bil a month but spending - the nexessary type, wil be above the $260 billion, which means something has to give.

i reality the general fund will take the money from the social security and medicare trusts--oops, they did that in 1995.

The general fund will raid the govt employees pension funds (I hope the legislators funds gets tapped out first).

I really expect them to be very closed mouth on this, keep us in the dark. Depending on who wins The House next week will determine how this all proceeds.
but we are at a milestone timeframe.

the treasury just announced it plans to issue $425 billion of new debt this quarter--thats a $1.7 trillion run rate.

Wa9jml
Posts: 254
Incept: 2017-04-29

DeKalb, Illinois
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Alexis de Tocqueville wrote on the Revolution in France, that the Bourbon Monarchy's chief mistake was to center all of the political power in France to the King's Court. The peasants were heavily burdened with taxes, and also with forced labor on things like road projects. The nobility were titled, and had some immunities, but were essentially powerless.

This meant that there was a considerable amount of pure hatred between the French classes. That eventually boiled over into a blood bath.

I can see the same sort of thing happening here. Hillary Clinton's declaration that the long suffering Trump supporters were merely deplorables. This was echoed by Obama's foolish statement to the west coast elite along similar lines. I know a fair number of Progressives. They think that they are safely within the ruling elite, due to their advanced degrees, and most of them look down on people who actually do manual labor for a living. I have several advanced degrees, and I early on learned to discount merely academic credentials. Most of the people I dealt with in city government were amazed that just because I have those advanced degrees I am not a totally incompetent and inept individual. Academics tend to view people and their concerns as abstractions. This is a very serious mistake. But dealing with abstractions is always much easier than dealing with reality. Most academics never learn this.

Codevilla, in the essay I linked to before, says that those of us in Flyover Country thought that our interests would be best served by electing Republicans. That illusion vanished in 2008, when the presidential candidates of both parties, quickly returned to Washington to bail out profligate bankers. Most of the Republican Party joined all of the Democrats in this bailout, and then another non-voted upon bailout was done that had even less transparency than the first one had. The result was that the illusion of voting Republican was demolished along with the mirage of government of, for, and by the people.

The Democrats and their funders are now trying to swamp the country with people who are used to dictatorships and banana republics. This will become their new electorate, replacing the Deplorables. Most of the invaders are military age men, so I fully expect them to be heavily armed shortly after their arrival. All the better to smash the Deplorables.

So, when the economy tanks, and I believe that to be inevitable now, there is going to be a blood bath here that will be far worse than the ones that the Jacobins set up in France. There has not been much common ground here for about a century, and now things are even more divided than they were in the 1850s. Just along different lines.

Rickysa
Posts: 2107
Incept: 2007-08-22

Southern Pines, NC
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
Codevilla, in the essay I linked to before


I hadn't seen that post, apologies for re-posting
Wa9jml
Posts: 254
Incept: 2017-04-29

DeKalb, Illinois
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
@Rickysa, no apologies needed. That essay deserves a wide audience.
Dcsleeper
Posts: 461
Incept: 2012-10-11

Northern VA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Their whole mantra is that civility will return when Dems gain control of the house.

um **** YOU.
Lobo
Posts: 520
Incept: 2013-12-25

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Wa9jml wrote..
The Democrats and their funders are now trying to swamp the country with people who are used to dictatorships and banana republics. This will become their new electorate, replacing the Deplorables. Most of the invaders are military age men, so I fully expect them to be heavily armed shortly after their arrival. All the better to smash the Deplorables.


All those military age men look like they came from Central America. When the shooting starts, people are going to make quick decisions based on what they can see and that will likely continue for quite some time. SoCal will have very different dynamics compared with West Virginia.

With regard to the "Resist" crap:
Quote:
Ben & Jerrys is launching a new flavor, Pecan Resist, which the company made to promote activism in the U.S.

The Limited Batch flavor chocolate ice cream with white and dark fudge chunks, pecans, walnuts and fudge-covered almonds is part of the companys campaign to "lick injustice and champion those fighting to create a more just and equitable nation for us all," it said Tuesday.

Ben & Jerrys is donating $25,000 to each of four organizations working on behalf of people of color, Native Americans' environmental justice and women Color Of Change, Honor the Earth, Womens March and Neta.


"Promote activism," huh? Activism works both ways, Ben & Jerry.

----------
Village Idiot
Tickerguy
Posts: 154882
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Soy boys don't run very fast...

----------
Winding it down.
Gable
Posts: 859
Incept: 2009-07-04

Retired in NC Mountains
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I have to admit Karl's original post and the comments after have greatly reduced my perception I was semi smart.

Kudos to this thread and what it reveals. smiley

----------
In all of history, no government became more honest, less corrupt, or respected its citizens' rights more as it grew in size. E.L. 2016
Mangymutt
Posts: 724
Incept: 2015-05-03

Vancouver WA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Karl - Your 7:42 response is about as complete a solution for a complex issue that you nor I created. I can get behind that 100% even as it stands the way you laid it out. But because our elected officials are idiots I think it would be a good idea to put a say 10 year limit on that portion of it. If someone who is in a position to use that portion of your plan can not get their stuff together within that time frame, to bad. The time limit would also prevent future anchor babies from trying to find loop holes.

Login Register Top Blog Top Blog Topics FAQ