To All The 'Factoring' *******s Out There
The Market Ticker - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Logging in or registering will improve your experience here
Main Navigation
Display list of topics
Sarah's Resources You Should See
Sarah's Blog Buy Sarah's Pictures
Full-Text Search & Archives
Legal Disclaimer

The content on this site is provided without any warranty, express or implied. All opinions expressed on this site are those of the author and may contain errors or omissions.

NO MATERIAL HERE CONSTITUTES "INVESTMENT ADVICE" NOR IS IT A RECOMMENDATION TO BUY OR SELL ANY FINANCIAL INSTRUMENT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO STOCKS, OPTIONS, BONDS OR FUTURES.

The author may have a position in any company or security mentioned herein. Actions you undertake as a consequence of any analysis, opinion or advertisement on this site are your sole responsibility.

Market charts, when present, used with permission of TD Ameritrade/ThinkOrSwim Inc. Neither TD Ameritrade or ThinkOrSwim have reviewed, approved or disapproved any content herein.

The Market Ticker content may be sent unmodified to lawmakers via print or electronic means or excerpted online for non-commercial purposes provided full attribution is given and the original article source is linked to. Please contact Karl Denninger for reprint permission in other media, to republish full articles, or for any commercial use (which includes any site where advertising is displayed.)

Submissions or tips on matters of economic or political interest may be sent "over the transom" to The Editor at any time. To be considered for publication your submission must include full and correct contact information and be related to an economic or political matter of the day. All submissions become the property of The Market Ticker.

Considering sending spam? Read this first.

2018-10-12 13:17 by Karl Denninger
in Editorial , 197 references Ignore this thread
To All The 'Factoring' *******s Out There
[Comments enabled]

I'm dealing with my late Mother's estate and the number of bottom-feeding jackals who have been calling me is off-the-charts.  More than a few send surface mail as well.

The basic scheme is that they want to buy the house out of the estate for about half it's actual market value.

Uh huh.

That might be something someone who is a sole heir could agree to but if you're an Executor ("Personal Representative") for an estate where there are multiple heirs you're asking to get your butt sanctioned or even sued if you do a deal with these *******s.

Why?  Because you have a fiduciary responsibility to the Estate's heirs and devisees, that's why!  You have no more right to sell the property for half its fair market value and screw everyone else than you do to hold a bonfire with the cash in the estate on the driveway!

Now if you're the only heir then who cares -- if you wish to take half the value and do it right now, ok, that's fine.  It's your money; go ahead and burn it.

But if there are other heirs and/or devisees then doing that is legally equivalent to robbing the other people and they have every right to come after you -- if the Probate Judge doesn't ram you up the ass on his or her own!

What sort of bull**** bottom-feeding garbage is this?  I've gotten at least a half-dozen letters and phone calls of substantially the same substance thus far.  That these ****ers do not have the banhammer of the law come down on them for running this crap, when a fairly material percentage of those who they try it on are probably ignorant of the potential consequence and exposure they have is outrageous.

Here's my answer to all who try to pull this crap and, if they find someone who doesn't understand what they're responsible for and what fiduciary means said person risks winding up having their "thanks" in handling an estate coming in the form of being sued to beyond the orbit of Mars and potentially even bankrupted personally by these ****heads and their bottom-feeding bull****:

smiley

Needless to say I'm no longer "nice" to anyone who calls me with such an "offer."

Go to responses (registration required to post)
 

 
Comments.......
User: Not logged on
Login Register Top Blog Top Blog Topics FAQ
Showing Page 1 of 2  First12Last
User Info To All The 'Factoring' *******s Out There in forum [Market-Ticker]
Lenguado
Posts: 2414
Incept: 2010-01-12
A True American Patriot!
Orlando, FL
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
So FRAUD as a business model.

Now WHERE have I heard that theme before?!?!!?

----------
I just realized... they aren't saying, "Keynesian Economics"
they're saying "Kenyansian Economics". Grass Huts for everyone!
smiley
Welcome to historys first Double Dip Depression
Krzelune
Posts: 6194
Incept: 2007-10-08

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Ass Holes come out of the woodwork when someone dies. It has really gotten bad. And that doesn't even count the money grubbing relatives that usually lurk about.
Tickerguy
Posts: 154633
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
These ****ers had better be careful I am taking names and making a list, and if they **** someone else I'll be more than happy to testify against them and take THEIR house even if I have to drive 1,100 miles to do it.

----------
Winding it down.
Click
Posts: 313
Incept: 2017-06-26

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Half?

There isn't a year that goes by that I don't get lowball offers in the mail for my properties, and those start at 20% of retail. And nobody has died.

FYI: there are real estate gurus who "teach" courses on how to buy and sell real estate. It basically goes something like this: head on down to the country recorder's office and find out who owns what. Then mail them a lowball offer.

I bet tens of thousands of people who own "distressed property" and who just got wacked my hurricane Michael will get lowballed by somebody who just finished up a real estate course.

Another thing that drives me crazy is when I'm cruzin down the street in one of my classics; and then some joker approachs me and tells me how much he loves my ride; and then he lowballs me...

I own a 160lb American Akita. A real handsome boy. But I can't take him out with me because without fail some dimwit will try and stop me to ask "what kind is he", "where did you get him", "I want one"... This happens every single time. Now, I appreciate dog lovers and classic truck lovers, I really do, but can I please take my dog for a ride in my classic without somebody making me an offer? --- or asking a lot of questions?

If I want to sell my house, property, truck, dog, gun or anything else I'll put a ****ing for sale sign up... and the Mexicans here in Houston are the worst lowball offenders. Sorry, but it's true.

Ain't Mex-America great? Again?
Wa9jml
Posts: 230
Incept: 2017-04-29

DeKalb, Illinois
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I had the opposite problem when I was an executor. My cousin and her husband apparently did not want to ever get their house paid off. They refinanced for 30 years, and took out a home equity loan to remodel part of the place. So, there was no equity at all in the house. Fortunately, the attorney recommended a top flight realtor, who had a brother who was an expert handyman. He cleaned the place completely, and fixed all the ceramic tile that was coming loose from the floors, by replacing it with laminate. Then, she had the place sold in a week and a half, and wrote the sales contract so that it covered most of the needed remodeling. Selling that house was the key to getting the estate settled properly.

The only problem I had was with the "friends" of my cousin who I had living in the house so that it would not be robbed. I had to get them so angry with me that they would move out in a huff. I knew what would get them that mad, and did it. It would have been a problem to get them officially evicted. After they left I had the locks all changed in an hour.
Punch_rockgroin
Posts: 2408
Incept: 2008-12-31

Pacific NW USA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I always like to see the handwritten CASH FOR YOUR HOUSE coroplast signs splattered on every vertical surface around here. Wonder what the response rate is for those?

----------
Put the boots to him. Medium style.
Burya_rubenstein
Posts: 1395
Incept: 2007-08-08

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
If I may ask: what would be a fair percentage of the market value to offer? And how are you determining fair market value?

I am asking not to defend these *******s, which I hate at least as much as you do (I'm surprised you even answer any calls from someone not on your contact list). But because I may also have to deal with this issue some day, and will need all the help I can get.

(Though I'd guess it more likely that the coming Collapse will render the whole matter academic. But still, just in case...)
Kfell
Posts: 12
Incept: 2014-09-09

New Hampshire
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
The Golden rule being marginalized and ignored again and again. Folks just do not have any respect for each other anymore.
Snooze
Posts: 3055
Incept: 2007-07-09

florida
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Ain't nothing new...150 years ago they were called Carpet Baggers.

----------
Wealth is found in the warmth of the sun, in the coolness of moist soil, in the taste of fresh air, and in the pulse of your heart. Plant a seed and harvest your riches.
Tickerguy
Posts: 154633
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
@Burya_rubenstein
Quote:
If I may ask: what would be a fair percentage of the market value to offer? And how are you determining fair market value?

Appraised less (real estate commission and closing costs, plus perhaps 2 or 3 months carry costs such as R/E insurance and property taxes)

Less than that why would take the deal unless you need the money "right now", and in the case of a probate estate YOU NEVER DO because there's typically a FOUR MONTH or more "bar date" for money claims against the estate during which you can't distribute funds because you must pay all valid claims out of whatever is in the estate FIRST.

So the "you can get money right now" claim is a LIE in all cases where you're administering an estate. You CANNOT get money "right now." If you liquidate an asset "right now" (which you can do and in many cases you SHOULD do) you STILL can't have it "right now" because you can't pay it out until the bar date on claims OR you will find yourself PERSONALLY liable for any deficiency! If there's no risk of a deficiency (e.g. there's a lot of cash and no debts) then why the hell do you give a **** how fast the house sells?

If the estate is insolvent then it gets REALLY fun because if you start paying out claims and do it in the wrong order you can ALSO get butt****ed. Indeed the first order of business BEFORE you file probate and get appointed is to find out IF the estate is insolvent because if it is you want nothing to do with it, period, and you walk away with your middle finger in the air. Not only will you get nothing in that instance but anything you advance (e.g. retainers, filing fees, etc) other than funeral expenses (which are privileged) is almost-certain to come STRAIGHT OUT OF YOUR ASS.

In other words all these guys are LEGITIMATELY offering is to save you the carrying and transaction costs of a common real estate transaction. Ok, so if they take all but $100 of that then I met my fiduciary responsibility (since I am arguably getting the highest cash value within reason) AND they get a "good deal" in that they would otherwise normally PAY those costs (the seller doesn't actually pay anything, the buyer always pays all costs -- duh!)

Those costs aren't trivial -- real estate commission is typically 6% and depending on where you are taxes can be hideous. Title and other closing costs are real (and most of them are on the seller in a traditional transaction.) Why would you take less than that? It's a direct breach of fiduciary responsibility to do so unless there is some special circumstance that makes it a non-factor -- and that's damned rare.

It's one thing for someone to offer to buy out your house if you need money "right now", you have a clean title and are ALIVE. But once you're DEAD whoever is handling the estate CANNOT just simply say "oh here, have some money" because under the law creditors have a statutory amount of time to present claims and if you pay the money out before that time has run and there are legitimate claims out YOUR ASS IS GOING TO FRY.

There is a place for various "factoring" folks out there -- for instance, if you're OWED an estate you can usually "sell it" to a factor for about half of whatever it realistically is. They give you the money NOW and they get an assignment. The price of that is REALLY high (half is about right) but if you need cash right ****ing now and you're an heir (estates usually take AT LEAST six months to settle -- and often more than a year) then it's an option if you have **** for credit and otherwise can't borrow the funds at a REASONABLE rate (credit cards are VERY reasonable by comparison!)

But not these ****ers -- in the context of an estate they have exactly ZERO legitimacy unless there is only one heir who stands to get anything, and even then it's a **** deal. List conventionally 25% below appraisal with a "zero conditions, cash only" clause in the listing and you'll likely sell it on a quick close basis in under a month. What sort of value can they possibly offer beyond THAT?

----------
Winding it down.

Niti
Posts: 655
Incept: 2008-03-20

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I just sent in the mother's estate paperwork this past Saturday. It was due on the 8th. Pennsylvania has an inheritance tax. Thankfully most taxes will be paid under "separate billing" because most of the estate was non-probate and I don't have to deal with that issue. And that does appear to be an issue.....

You're not joking about people coming out of the woodwork to "help" you with the real estate (mom's house). Many phone calls and letters.
Chaparral
Posts: 439
Incept: 2007-09-11

Los Angeles
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I had a few of the bloodsuckers come to my parents door after my dad passed about ten years ago. They didn't make that mistake twice.
Benthere
Posts: 92
Incept: 2018-06-16

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
There is a corollary to what Karl shared...its hunting around for houses for sale due to a divorce in process. When I decided to move to the great SW an acquaintance suggested \I pick an area, seek out a crusty RE lawyer and or realtor who knows an equally crusty divorce lawyer (or three) who may know who may be needing to sell a home to end the stalemate over division of assets and lowball em. Usually WAY more pressure and emotion then an executor selling mom or dads place...usually bad memories in the place to be expunged.
Franco
Posts: 66
Incept: 2009-10-06

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
How do these people know to contact you?
Tickerguy
Posts: 154633
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
When you open a probate estate there's a legal notice published; they're using that data. That's what pisses me off so much -- there's no legitimate reason for them to call a Probate Executor with something like this.

----------
Winding it down.
Weezie
Posts: 6937
Incept: 2008-05-19
A True American Patriot!
Caution: Congress at Work
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I hear ya.

I inherited 60+ woodland acres on good PA 'Marcellus Shale'. The timber alone is worth $500K, the gas underneath perhaps low seven figures.

Get ****ers all the time wanting to buy for $1,500 an acre. Even had someone try to file a quit claim hoping that I lapsed on paying the taxes. Jesus H, Dad's only been dead for less than a year.

That said, my sister in law, the executor of my MIL's estate, is taking her sweet ass time. A stock portfolio and a non-qualified IRA (think six figures) nearly went to the state because she never answered calls or filed the right paperwork on time - I told her that all she had to do is write a letter with her Executor seal and an original death certificate to the company holding the assets and give them the names of the beneficiaries to contact and the division so they could get the right forms to those involved. Of course, because she ****ed around with the non-qualified plan, we couldn't roll it/transfer it and have to take it in cash, which triggered ****-all taxes. Now the BIG IRA has until December 31st and she's FINALLY getting around to that. The house will be going through the second year of a Northeast US winter because paying $1,500 to hire folks to move out the stuff you don't want and donate it so the realtor can put it up for sale is apparently too hard and too expensive as compared to maintaining an unoccupied house for who knows how long.


----------
jihad pressure cooker tea party guns Constitution Bill of Rights play doh squiggly line prepper home garden cluster****
Benthere
Posts: 92
Incept: 2018-06-16

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Probate exists to collect taxes and cover the executors ass from jealous in laws whispering to their spouse that said executor/sibling is f**cking them. Avoid at all cost for small estates. It can be done if the deceased is willing.
Tickerguy
Posts: 154633
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Yeah you have to set things up correctly before you croak tho.

----------
Winding it down.
Mangymutt
Posts: 681
Incept: 2015-05-03

Vancouver WA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Hopefully, you are not also dealing with unreasonable family members. As that can make a stressful situation even worse.

We all know friends or family that have torn themselves apart over settling an estate. People seem to get into their heads that they "deserve" just a little more than the other person. Sad really.

But add on top of that the bottom feeders who try and take advantage of an already difficult situation, you have the potential for untold misery.

Best of luck to you on settling this estate and if you are in a position I hope you are also able to assist in settling your sisters also.
Tickerguy
Posts: 154633
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
It's all good family-wise...

----------
Winding it down.
Tsherry
Posts: 1413
Incept: 2008-12-09

Spokane WA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I dealt with those ****ing parasites twenty years ago when my mother passed away (20 years ago tomorrow, actually).

Once I figured out that the nice gentleman on the other end of the phone was really a rat-**** maggot (which took awhile, I was trusting and naive), I told him to take his offer and shove it up his ass.

That didn't stop him. He just became threatening, stating (falsely) that he had claims on the estate; that he was owed tens of thousands, etc. None of it true. I found out where he lived, drove into his driveway, and started the same **** with his wife who was cutting flowers. He came tearing outside when she started yelling and stopped cold when he saw me.

Last I ever had to put up with that **** from that guy.

Sold the house about a month after the probate nonsense was finished, full price offer plus 10%. Good market at the time. Then distributed cash assets to the brothers, and was done.

I hoped never to do that again. Sadly, didn't happen. Had to 'help out' when my MIL died. Before she passed, I tried to get my BIL to get the estate in order before she passed by getting joint names on accounts, selling the car that would never be driven again, getting the retirement funds identified along with insurance. Nope. Didn't take my advice. Took two and a half years to settle out.

You can only lead a horse to water.

----------
Omne mendacium est.
Weezie
Posts: 6937
Incept: 2008-05-19
A True American Patriot!
Caution: Congress at Work
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Well, at least Tsherry, you didn't get accused of being 'greedy' and wanting to be 'disrespectful' and 'rush things'. I just pointed out that there were good five-figure tax implications if SIL didn't hurry up on something and again when I said that she needed to at least CONTACT the companies to make sure the dividends, etc. were at least going into the estate account. You see, dividends that are returned because a bank account is closed due to the account holder being deceased gets accrued and the company has to note that - after 14 months, at least in MIL's state, if the information isn't updated or they're notified that the assets are part of a probate, they can be turned to the state. (Not to mention that estate taxes are much higher than personal taxes and since there are no more bills, having income producing assets sitting in an estate is brain dead ****ing stupid when there are enough cash reserves to more than take care of incidental until the house is sold - whenever the **** that may happen.)

I happened upon that letter in a big ass pile of papers my SIL had when we visited this summer. I asked her if she was doing anything and it was 'oh, I'll get to it - sigh...' while giving me the stink-eye.

Wasn't until I told hubby point blank that $XXX,000 was going to go to the state because of sister sitting on her ass did things get done. But, I was the 'greedy' one because I insisted she 'hurry up.' Jesus H. - I didn't make those rules. Hell, I'm even suggesting that she HIRE SOMEONE USING THE PROCEEDS THAT WOULD NORMALLY GO TO MY HUSBAND'S SHARE to finish the administration and clean up, etc. so it gets done and lightens her workload. But I'm ****ing "greedy."

No, I'm not 'greedy' - I just don't see a reason to lose assets to the state, have to take lump payments from IRAs because the time window to roll them into an inherited account closed because she ****ed around, or pay another year of taxes, heat, insurance, and etc. on an empty house. Nor did I think my in-laws worked their asses off and scrimped and saved so their children could******away their money making dumb ****ing decision. But, sure, I'm the '*******.'

18 months for an estate with MINIMAL final bills and NO DEBT. That's just ****ing off the wall.

Sorry folks, needed to vent. Gah!

----------
jihad pressure cooker tea party guns Constitution Bill of Rights play doh squiggly line prepper home garden cluster****
Gable
Posts: 845
Incept: 2009-07-04

Retired in NC Mountains
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
The basic scheme is that they want to buy the house out of the estate for about half it's actual market value.
Quote:


We have a rental property in Orland and we receive two to three letters a week offering the same ****...we pay cash, no closing costs....


----------
In all of history, no government became more honest, less corrupt, or respected its citizens' rights more as it grew in size. E.L. 2016
Goforbroke
Posts: 7456
Incept: 2007-11-30
A True American Patriot!
Time to feed the chickens.
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
hunting around for houses for sale due to a divorce in process
Yup. There are RE agents who daily visit the County Clerk of Courts for any new divorces, in which case real estate will likely be up for grabs (and chances are, whoever gets it can't make the payments). In many municipalities, divorce filings are published in the local paper. Unless an attorney knows the clerks really well, divorce files are open (i.e. not sealed). In my divorce settlement, anything that had to do with money was expressed as a percentage of account balances as of a certain date. None of this is anyone's business but the two parties, but the courts clearly don't feel that way.

Yet again, a case where buzzards are feeding on the misfortune of others.

----------
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our Light, and not our Darkness, that most frightens us. -- Marianne Williamson
Login Register Top Blog Top Blog Topics FAQ
Showing Page 1 of 2  First12Last