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2018-08-12 10:15 by Karl Denninger
in Education , 174 references Ignore this thread
Crucify Them All
[Comments enabled]

It's time for a new law.

One that criminalizes "co-signing" for educational loans, with the penalty for those who accept any such application being the death penalty.  And I want that penalty to be slow and painful.

Remember, the bar in the Constitution is on cruel and unusual punishment. It can be cruel, so long as it's not unusual.

So let's make it very cruel.  How about drawing and quartering?  Or crucifixion?  The latter sounds pretty good, and I say we apply it to any University Provost, Dean or other official who allows this sort of crap to go on in their financial rape-room, er, "school".  Crucifixion is (very) cruel but it is hardly "unusual", so there you go.

Karen's grandson did not adequately prepare for the $20,000 out-of-state private college he decided to attend. When the tuition bills started pouring in, he turned to his grandmother for help. Despite her limited income, she felt she couldn't say no. Karen is not sure of how many loans or what kind of loans were put in her name. But soon after her grandson started attending school, the letters demanding payment began. She was able to defer the payments, but the relief was only temporary.

I advocate that we also apply this same penalty to any Congressvermin, federal official or President, after due process of law, of course, so it is perfectly legal and Constitutional, who fails to immediately strip the "special protections" given to educational debt under both Democrat and Republican administrations starting in the 1980s.

Returning educational debt to the status of unsecured lending and barring, under penalty of being crucified, the acceptance of any sort of "co-signer" or "joint responsibility" will put an instant end to this garbage.

It will also collapse the cost of college by 80%, returning it to something a young person can afford to do by spinning pizzas, flipping burgers, working in a mall or otherwise engaging in some sort of part-time work -- just as as was prior to the so-called "educational system" lobbying for their own version of financial gang-rape rooms just as the medical system was (thus far) successfully able to pull off.

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Posts: 1171
Incept: 2010-05-25

Houston, Texas
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This was one of the nails in the coffin of my first marriage. She wanted to co-sign, fully fund, and hold full responsibility for college for all 3 kids.
I refused.
My stance was we HELP, via checks and cash, but the kids work and pay as they go.
I never signed a note, refused to sign FAFSA paperwork, and refused to take loans to give to them.
We divorced, and I had no regrets about my decision.
I helped, as was my plan.
She....alas....dud not follow my lead.
Nor did the kids, who are now drowning in debt.

A lawyer with a briefcase can steal more than a thousand men with guns. --Mario Puzo

It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. -- Henry Ford
Posts: 48
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Amen, I looked up teachers pensions in Illinoiz top of the list Leslie Heffez last employer was university of Illinois Chicago which used to be known as Circle Campus a romper room 2 year institution which I guess is now a 4 year romper room Leslie He/she gets an annual 581 K pension who retired at 55 and contributed a total of 768K into the "system" Jesus e Christo I want a piece of that return. The last on the list of 200 top leeches gets an annual 248 K pension after contributing 287K but to be fair he/she retired at 77 so probably actuarially only will collect for 10years.
I graduated at DePaul and since |I went to JC was there 2 years at a total cost of 3600 for tuition, I paid my own bus fare.
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Scottsdale, AZ
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The schools******people with $500 plus a credit hour classes that teach them nothing. They have no responsibility that these kids are ready for the job market and simply have them sign on the dotted line. They make it look free at first and of course they won't see the tidal wave until it's too late. I don't know what the loan docs look like today, but am betting that they aren't disclosing what happens if they borrow 100% and attain a degree.
Add in the new online courses that charge the same as a classroom and the money disappears faster then at a democratic fundraiser. These kids are conned into believing their at home/online degree is worth anything. They are given classes that are easy and when they get their A on their online class, the con just begins. Getting an A is like winning a slot machine pull. It simply drags you deeper into the con. They make you believe you are smart, but only want you to keep signing up for classes at $1500 a pop. Let's not forget the $300 text books that you are forced to buy even though they haven't changed in 5 years. They do now have lease programs for books that I am betting most students sign up for and violate when they don't return the books back on time or in the right shape.

I have first hand experience with my lady friend in helping her with her online college classes. She would have to write reports or answer questions and whoever wrote the assignment didn't have a clue about grammar. I could blow through an assignment in 15 minutes without even reading the book and it was an instant A. These people aren't earning degrees, they are paying for them.
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I'm a tenured full professor and I can't wait for retirement even though I'm partially wishing for my life to go faster. (Disclaimer: I'm not in a state retirement system, I have a 403(b).)

Between the financial******of the students and the identity politics where we are evaluated based on the percentages of each group that graduates, I can't wait for it to end. It has turned out to be nothing like it was when I started and nothing like what I want to be a part of in the present or future. The wife and I have worked out an exit plan which we are working daily to make happen.


Here are my predictions for everyone to see:
S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
No sign that housing, equities, or farmland are in a bubble- Yellen 11/14/13
Trying to leave the Rat Race to the rats...
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The future liability for these 200 alone is almost (in rough numbers) not taking into account any "kickers they have is well north of a billion. Leslie retiring at 55 and likely could live 30 years is 17 million alone. Not counting whatever benefits they have attached, \I don't even want to go there. This is just the top 200 in the university "system" What about all the other teachers everywhere from \K through high school? Police, fire fighters admin staff?

We have 5 years maybe till this blows sky high??? Next recession will do it and look to Europe to start the fun rolling!
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But, how will they meet the coupon on the water park debt?
Posts: 627
Incept: 2017-06-27

The People's Republic of New York
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unfortunately, the logic that parents should not and will not sign on the dotted line because college should be affordable by part time work or reasonable loans to pay off in short time crashes into the current and even past impossibility of the student doing such. when young people with actual goals and work ethic ask me what to do, it is often working outside of the box or giving up and dropping out. all of the best cannot win a scholarship and many qualified people are not living up to their potential. colleges at the high end are figuring every way to attract more students from the lower end below their usual admissions standards. this is a spiraling of the drain issue. they are trying to keep it going as long as possible until the problem sorts itself out.

on the subject of admin and faculty pensions, many non-state universities in the private sector (accredited and serious for whatever they mean now) do not and have never offered pensions. this causes the issue where faculty never retire and become deadwood just going through the motions until they become too frail to care. if you want to see a place go down the ****ter, just let this happen. one university actually welcomed the declining enrollment of one campus as they packaged out, fired (where they could come up with something) and eliminated in the plans of closing its doors.

perhaps these pensions are created so large that if there ever has to be a retrace, there will not be as much legal and other challenges. anyone could live quite nicely with a major cutback to the current number. it would be rather funny if the insanely high numbers were designed as a buffer for the inevitable day of reckoning. a recipient could walk the high ground and say that he is taking a 60% cut. be a hero and still make out. one wonders.

There are two ways to be rich: One is by acquiring much, and the other is by desiring little.
snow, seasons, distance and dirt roads: SSDD
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked; for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" (Gal. 6:7)
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Debt that is not dischargeable in bankruptcy, is slavery.

A slave killing the slave owner would not be a bad thing in my mind.

Trying to enslave someone is a crime that can be resisted with deadly force.

There is nothing extreme about Karl's proposal.

If you look at modern society, many people WANT to be the beneficiaries of slavery.

If you want FREE STUFF, paid for by other people that cannot opt out of working to pay the taxes for your FREE STUFF, IE benefits, you believe in slavery.

What matters to those people is merely who holds the whip, who benefits , and who works against their will.

As long as they are in the first two groups, they don't care.

Demonize the people working under penalty of death, and make it socially acceptable to MAKE THEM PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE, which is the rally cry of people that actually want to benefit from SLAVERY.

Resist the Government trying to tax you and you may die if you resist forcefully enough.

If You advocate for slavery, you are a fair target for the slaves that want to destroy the slave owners and slave system.

That is why Sherman's destruction of Atlanta really should not be considered a War Crime.

Same for Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, or Nagasaki.

"Bow down before the one you serve.
You are going to get what you deserve."

Trent got it right.

Preparing to go Hunting.
Posts: 2160
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East of Sheol
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But, how will they meet the coupon on the water park debt?

When I went to college there were:
2 of us to a room.
2 military style cots.
1 sink. 2 sets of dressers. 2 study desks. We didn't even have a damned telephone in the room. The showers, laundry, and toilet facilities were communal. It didn't kill us. Only in 1984 were rooms eqiupped with private phones if desired.I didn't need one. They payphone in the hallway was enough for me todo my business or call home to see what was new.

This was in a private college in the 1980s where the tuition started out around 10K/year. If you were on the campus meal plan you walked across campus up to 3x day to get your meal.

There was only one dorm where they residents could get better accommodations and it was all female.

These costs remind me of actual paid insurance prices vs the hospital charges. Another reason the government should be out of the financial aid business. The more money that chases something the more expensive it becomes.

Personally I'm all for impalement - Vlad Tepes style. When you have fields of these staked bastards up for the world to see the crows and vultures pick the remains of their carcasses apart then we might have some change.

But before you do that asset strip them of everything and put the families that benefited from the theft out on the street. If they complain then put them out in the fields too. NO ONE has the right to benefit from theft or indentured servitude.

"Mass intelligence does not mean intelligent masses."

Reason: accidently sent before finishing
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I worked at Home Depot and commuted from home to KSU.
Even paid some rent to my parents and covered all of my costs for school.

Preparing to go Hunting.
Posts: 79
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My parents were going through a bankruptcy when I was in school (farmers, hogs got sick, and Dad decided to cash out rather than pile more debt on).

I had to sign my own loans. Got a bad rate, but then refinanced it. Paid it off two years ago. My bride had a similar situation.

The last engineer I trained has $500k in debt. I know what she is making, and it would take almost 10 years of using her salary to pay off the principle. She will never discharge that debt.

My kids are going to have some rather hard times, but we are prepping them to not go through the college circus.
Posts: 187
Incept: 2017-04-29

DeKalb, Illinois
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I worked nights and went to school days for my associates degree and for most of my bachelors degree. I worked my way through my masters degree as a tech for the Engineering College. I had assistantships for most of the way through my PhD studies, and then took an internship in city management. I got paid for that. I graduated with about $6,000 in debt, that was mostly for health insurance. I once figured out the opportunity cost for that PhD, and it was about $250,000. Since I got the doctorate mostly out of revenge on the faculty and staff at my high school who thought I was retarded until my National Merit scores came back, it was well worth the money.

I once had a conversation with my Department Chair. He told me that if it were not for graduate Assistants like I was then, and adjunct instructors like I was for 10 years, he could not get enough money to keep the doors open. Of course it was carte blanche for the football and basketball programs, but they didn't fund academics the same way. I was affiliated with that department for about 40 years. When I started there in 1974, it was a very highly respected third tier Political Science Department with a large number of senior and very experienced professors. They all died off, and were not replaced. Now, it is at best a 6th rate department. I am very glad to be retired and out of there!
Posts: 153849
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A True American Patriot!
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Everyone cries poverty when they're rapeing you up the ass.

Winding it down.

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Incept: 2008-05-16

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Okay. My experience. We leave in week for Washu. My son will be a freshman. Just paid our tuition bill. $1,220.00, next semester the same. NO STUDENT LOANS.

A friend's daughter paid $15.00 a year at UF for 4 years with a bright futures schlorship.

My son also got a full ride to UF.

I get your point, and I also hear stories about the debt load these kids take on to go their dream school. Dream school...

College can be affordable.

My advice for scholarships for any hs student is to score the best you can on standardized testing. ACT SAT.

My opinion and living it.

The FASFA was a pia. I get it. We have 1 and when he gets his seat in medical school and we paid how much for a undergraduate degree. They can . . .


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Incept: 2007-09-11

Los Angeles
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Were some of these suckered individuals or their parents to go all Django unchained, I would have zero ****s to give..about those whom they would massacre.
Posts: 2140
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Chapparral, I can see it happening.
I would try to avoid being an accessory before the fact.
You know, taking someone to the gun range for a few sessions and paying for the ammo and letting them borrow a weapon when coupled with emails about the subject at hand could be used to build a decent case for that charge.


I have been teaching all the young people I know how to shoot, and talking about the evils of predatory student loans.

I don't let people borrow firearms and take them off of the property though.

Preparing to go Hunting.
Posts: 411
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Los Angeles
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Most of the likely Djangos I know are emotionally volatile berniebots. I don't allow those kids anywhere near my personal life, not even the ones who are related through holy water. I don't lend tools or guns. Learned the hard way decades ago not to do that. The kids who lean conservative are likely to succeed on account of not heading into the liberal arts trash heap but staying in STEM or the trades. I'll give the K-selected kids guidance but even then, they can only play with certain toys under strict supervision at the range.
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