When Did You Consent?
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2018-08-06 11:37 by Karl Denninger
in Consumer , 761 references Ignore this thread
When Did You Consent?
[Comments enabled]

When did you consent to your bank "sharing" data on your account with Facebook?

Would you consent?  Under what terms?

Are you out of your ****ing mind?

Facebook's stock is up some 3.5% today on the "news" that it is working on "partnerships" with major banks, which will include access to your account data -- including balances.

May I remind you that the major credit-card processing networks -- same banks, ultimately folks -- have over the last few years, prompted by the "chip" thing in cards, quietly been changing from "Level 1" (that is, amount-of-transaction only) data from merchants to Level 3, which captures the quantity, price and exact items or services purchased?

The merchants are being coerced into this with a lower discount rate if they consent, with the argument being "better fraud detection" and thus lower losses.  In other words where the discount rate might be 2% if they just do transaction total the banks will give them a 1.5% rate if they consent to Level 3.

When were you consulted on any of this and given fair disclosure?

When was a sign posted at the checkout that every single line item in your cart was being sent, in detail, to both Visa and your bank and that they may do with that data as they please, including selling it to your health insurance firm, car insurance company and, quite-possibly, your employer?

Never.

So now you go into a restaurant and instead of the bank knowing you charged $45.02 on your card they now know you bought a $20 steak and $18 worth of beer -- and the rest was tip.

They also now know if those beers were $6 each -- you drank three -- or if you got them on happy hour for $2 and you drank nine of them!

This is extremely valuable information; among other things if you ever buy alcohol far enough away from your home that you could not have reasonably walked you are instantly assumed to drive drunk by your car insurance company and pay another $200 a year -- or more -- for your car insurance.

Think I'm kidding?

Nope.

This is happening right now, today.

Now Facebook wants the same thing, indirectly, so they can exploit it and they're going to get it.

When did you consent to any of this from either end?

Never.

Were you ever told that the local eatery went from "total transaction amount" (which you could reasonably assume) being communicated to Visa, Master Card, Discover, Amex and your bank to every single line item being reported to them?

No, you were not, just like you were not told when Verizon stuck "supercookies" on every web transaction you made through a mobile phone on their network and collected all that data on exactly where you go, when, on your phone handset.

That happened years ago and not one person has ever been prosecuted for it nor has it been stopped.

Has any of this been curtailed or this data been restricted or deemed to belong to youanywhere, or has any executive ever been indicted or prosecuted even if you get directly screwed by some "glitch", such as Wells Fargo's repeated and outrageous hosing of customers?

Nope, never.

The same screwing will happen here -- and if you think it's not worth anything and you're not "interesting enough", well, the market says you're going to get ****ed up the ass by it because the stock market just added $20 billion to Facebook's valuation this morning immediately following the announcement.

Enjoy the buttsexing of both your person and wallet folks, because it's certainly not******as long as you keep consenting.

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User Info When Did You Consent? in forum [Market-Ticker]
Wearedoomed
Posts: 4324
Incept: 2009-01-14

slightly red state
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Always pay cash. Of course, once facial recognition and other surveillance technologies become widely used in restaurants, grocery stores, etc., not even paying cash will help...

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A collectivist defines peace as the silence of their enemies, through fear, imprisonment or death. That's how they define peace. - Mike Vanderboegh
Tickerguy
Posts: 153849
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Nope, and it's trivial already given that serial numbers are on all banknotes and can be automatically scanned.

You must assume they are being, right now if you use any sort of automated checkout system, incidentally.

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Winding it down.
Jrminter
Posts: 63
Incept: 2008-10-09

Rochester,NY
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This isn't the only area where sensitve information is shared without our consent. My wife and I considered an account with a large bank that offered a very good return on their "360" account. We had some problems after creating the account, so we called the help line. The bank representative started asking security questions that had answers that I had not supplied to them but had supplied to the payroll company that my former employer used when they outsourced payroll. I was appalled. We closed the account.
Bodhi
Posts: 511
Incept: 2008-02-23

Georgia
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Quote:
Nope, and it's trivial already given that serial numbers are on all banknotes and can be automatically scanned.

You must assume they are being, right now if you use any sort of automated checkout system, incidentally.


So for now we should still be anonymous if we pay cash and use a human cashier.

Is there any way to find out if a merchant has opted in to "Level 3?"
Aaugusti
Posts: 17
Incept: 2010-10-01

Michigan
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In that case, time to start paying in Quarters and dollar coins, or pay cash at a checkout lane run by a human. It is going to be monstrous PITA.
Alosix
Posts: 1075
Incept: 2009-03-31

Behind enemy lines..
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@Jr I've run into that as well. The worse one was a form that wouldn't let me past asking for the name of my closest relative in Texas.

I don't have any in Texas that I know of.

One day that data is going to come back to bite me.. Its not like I could hunt it down to correct it either.


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"Software Development is one of those jobs, like picking lettuce, or cleaning toilets, that Americans just refuse to do." : STCM
Bluebird
Posts: 1855
Incept: 2008-05-02

SW Ohio
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I think one doesn't even need a Facebook account to have their personal and financial info sucked into Facebook. Everyone is screwed using credit cards. debit cards, store reward cards.

What does it indicate if a merchant has opted in to "Level 3"?
Tickerguy
Posts: 153849
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Quote:
What does it indicate if a merchant has opted in to "Level 3"?

There is no way to know but you must assume they have if they have a chip reader -- which basically all of them do now.

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Winding it down.
Whossane
Posts: 22
Incept: 2018-01-25

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I assume law enforcement/FBI/NSA has already begun accessing the level 3 data of some suspects. I also assume that they will argue you don't have 4A protection because you have allowed a 3rd party to access and store your data/activity in your bank account in the case of Facebook.
Tickerguy
Posts: 153849
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Quote:
I assume law enforcement/FBI/NSA has already begun accessing the level 3 data of some suspects. I also assume that they will argue you don't have 4A protection because you have allowed a 3rd party to access and store your data/activity in your bank account in the case of Facebook.

There's no argument to lose there; that argument has already been lost, and it was lost long before Face****er started this ****.

I'm waiting for the real-time link to Level 3 data from bars and restaurants back to the local cop shop. Time check is open divided by number of drinks = likely level of intoxication; roll the unit and bust the driver before he gets out of the parking lot.

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Winding it down.
1crzydmnd
Posts: 3148
Incept: 2008-03-26

Bizarro World
Online
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Gets even worse if you 'buy a round' for your buddies.

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BFYTW
Jack_crabb
Posts: 5456
Incept: 2010-06-25

Peoples' Republik of Maryland
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1crzydmnd wrote..
Gets even worse if you 'buy a round' for your buddies.


That's the exact warning I just gave to my son after reading this thread. I even wonder how many magic-blue-costumes can't perform simple division...

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Molon Labe
Where is Henry Bowman when you need him?
How many are willing to pledge this? We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor
Whossane
Posts: 22
Incept: 2018-01-25

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For those who think "I don't have anything to hide":

What happens when your insurance company raises your rates because your shopping cart is always filled with HFLC foods and none of the "healthy" whole grains or whatever the government has deemed to be healthy. They will be the arbiters of what is healthy, not you. It won't be just alcohol and tobacco.


Bodhi
Posts: 511
Incept: 2008-02-23

Georgia
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Quote:
Gets even worse if you 'buy a round' for your buddies.


I had that same thought. Even more reason to use cash.
Tdurden
Posts: 660
Incept: 2015-01-29

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Quote:
Nope, and it's trivial already given that serial numbers are on all banknotes and can be automatically scanned.

You must assume they are being, right now if you use any sort of automated checkout system, incidentally.


Probably the same with the ATM when you take out the cash.

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"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next 10 generations that some favors come with too high of a price." -Vir Cotto Babylon 5
Ckaminski
Posts: 4777
Incept: 2011-04-08

Mass-Hole!
Online
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Quote:
started asking security questions that had answers that I had not supplied


Take note:

Get a password vault.
Create random answers - do not use real data on ANY website.

For example, my bank thinks my aunts name is Tigger and I was born on Tattooine.

No one can datamine enough about me to predict these answers to compromise more than a single site over the Internet or through data sharing.
Aztrader
Posts: 8037
Incept: 2007-09-10

Scottsdale, AZ
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Must have been fake news cuz FB denied it.....

FB Facebook shares move off of session highs on apparent denial of this morning's WSJ report that the company was seeking financial transaction data (182.71 +4.93)
Tickerguy
Posts: 153849
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Uh huh -- now up 4%.

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Winding it down.
Tinman
Posts: 325
Incept: 2008-02-16

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What if I don't use the ****face place. Are they going to disclose my accounts to them? How is this even legal? Sorry... last question was stupid.
Rollformer
Posts: 330
Incept: 2013-02-13

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I actually just got a personal Amex; looking at my statement, they disclose that they collect this information. Not so much in that they say they do it, but they report on a given transaction that alcohol and tobacco were on it. They break out the tips on restaurant transactions.

I hadn't given any thought to the idea that other card companies would do the same. I figured it was Amex trying to be helpful--this would be extremely helpful for a corporate card, at least for the people trying to control their spend. But, now I am a bit concerned...

But, I get an upgraded room and $75 incidental credit when I stay at one of their hotel partners...Totally worth it...Right?

Right?
Tickerguy
Posts: 153849
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Yep.

How do you think they got that?

Line item detail on the check.

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Winding it down.
Smacktle
Posts: 1871
Incept: 2009-01-20

Texas
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Funny how easy it is to delete yourself from Facebook. But nobody does.

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The faults of the burglar are the qualities of the financier.
- George Bernard Shaw
Burya_rubenstein
Posts: 1379
Incept: 2007-08-08

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Time to go back to a human cashier I guess. It'd be rather awkward for a cashier to scan every bill they get, or at least you'd notice it wouldn't you?

I like the idea of using quarters to buy something, if you could get them en mass... Hmmm. video arcades? Are there still some around? Car washes?

As a side note, Uscans take pennies en masse. I've found the highest use of pennies to be to feed a bunch of them into a Uscan as part of payment for some item or items. I've goten as many as 70 pennies into the machine and they haven't balked at it yet. Any other way of spending that many pennies either pisses off other customers, runs the risk of the cashier balking at it, or costs from 3% to 10% of the pennies.
Bodhi
Posts: 511
Incept: 2008-02-23

Georgia
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Quote:
I actually just got a personal Amex; looking at my statement, they disclose that they collect this information. Not so much in that they say they do it, but they report on a given transaction that alcohol and tobacco were on it. They break out the tips on restaurant transactions.


I've had an Amex for almost 20 years. I never use it for general transactions, so I don't see any that detail purchases of tobacco or alcohol. I did use a Capital One card during my trip to NYC. My last evening there I used it at an establishment where my son and I tried several different craft beers. I looked at my statement and they just list the transaction as dining, no specifics. I'm going to keep a closer eye on this.
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