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2018-04-13 07:00 by Karl Denninger
in States , 141 references Ignore this thread
What Happens When You Give In To Terrorists
[Comments enabled]

When you negotiate with terrorists what you get is..... screwed.

The head of Oklahoma’s largest teachers union is calling for an end to a teacher walkout that has shuttered schools for nine days after Republican leaders said they will not provide any more new revenue for public schools.

Oklahoma Education Association President Alicia Priest said Thursday it is time for teachers to shift their focus to electing pro-education candidates to the Legislature.

So let's lay this out.

The only threat the teachers actually had, other than striking (at which point they don't get paid, and eventually will starve -- so they'll return to work eventually) -- is to oppose existing state lawmakers.

They went on strike and got hundreds of millions of dollars of tax increases passed, an amount to fund about $6,100 in increased salary per teacher on average.

They demanded more than 10 large, and got 60% of it.

But did that sate the beast?  Did they put down their weapons?

No.

The very same threat they began with remains and they intend to execute on it.

In other words the legislature, in caving to their demands bought themselves exactly nothing.

This is why you don't negotiate with terrorists; they don't stop being terrorists if you "appease" them.  Their original threat is never retired, it never is put away and will continue to be immediately and permanently pressed onward.

The people of Oklahoma probably didn't learn from this and neither did the legislature.

All the people can do now is stick the middle finger up and refuse to elect the people the teachers want elected or they will continue to be extorted on a continual, never-ending basis.

Oh, and while the residents of Oklahoma (and its legislature) are at it repeal the tax and salary increases since it in fact bought the people nothing in terms of an actual cease-fire.

What needs to go on the Oklahoma ballot is a state Constitutional amendment banning all public unions.  Were I living in that state this would be what I would now be advocating for and working toward in response.

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Cobra2411
Posts: 11713
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Philly P.a.
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It's hard, dirty work indoctrinating today's youth... All the taxes should be belonging to the teacher terrorists.

Public unions need to be gone. Plain and simple.

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Government: A device that allows you to get blind ass drunk and your children die from alcohol poisoning.
Seadog
Posts: 25
Incept: 2009-12-28

Desert Southwest
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Same crap in AZ. Governor caved and wants to give these pricks 20% over two years. Meanwhile, every election is full over school board props that want an override for the this, that, and the other. In essence, for the administrators. Gotta spend, spend, spend.

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Trust but verify except if the government is involved then just verify.
Captainkidd
Posts: 1134
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Houston, Texas
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I have 2 relatives that are teachers in Oklahoma.
We discussed this, and I opined that it was nothing but an extortion, and if teachers aren't happy with their compensation, perhaps a career change is the best option.
Things escalated...LOL
I HAD 2 relatives that are teachers in Oklahoma.....


smiley

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A lawyer with a briefcase can steal more than a thousand men with guns. --Mario Puzo

It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. -- Henry Ford
Goforbroke
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In Ohio, I guarantee this happens in every school district.

Boards of Education are petrified of teachers calling a strike if they (the teachers) don't get what they want in negotiations, which are generally held every 2-3 years.

Teachers compare their raises/rates of pay with other/adjacent school districts and say, "See? Look what they are getting!"

What this means is that it is a never-ending upward spiral.

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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our Light, and not our Darkness, that most frightens us. -- Marianne Williamson
Tickerguy
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I have two words for them: **** you.

Now I want a state where I can "opt out" of property taxes if I'm either somewhat older or (as in my case) snipped, so I cannot make more kids.

If I was effectively forced from my home by these **********s as an "old dude" I might go hunting -- why the hell not? I'm already dead at that point and you can only sentence me to death or life in prison once, so.....

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Winding it down.

Demosthenes
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Online
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The state seizing the means of production or distribution of a good or service never seems to turn out well.
Bodhi
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Georgia
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Quote:
Now I want a state where I can "opt out" of property taxes if I'm either somewhat older


The Georgia county I live in (Cherokee) allows you to opt out of the school portion of property taxes at 62. My tax bill dropped 70% after I filed for the exemption. Rules vary by county.
Krzelune
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For some reason the general public puts teachers on a pedestal. From my experience a minimum of 80% of public school teachers are useless or even worse than having no teacher at all. The students would be better off in a classroom with a hundred other students and one of the 20% of teachers that aren't useless.
Vermonttech
Posts: 21
Incept: 2012-11-26

Malta ny
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Well, related to this horses****, I got a letter from the State yesterday. Because my 28 Y/O son lives in the house, my already crazy property taxes are going WAY up. They consider his income as part of mine for property tax purposes and the State sets rates based on income. They figured out where he lives by cross matching address on income tax records. When I called they also mentioned going back several years. Great! I get to purchase MY home from the State AGAIN so that the cash starved State can give my money to the illegals that THEY INVITED to the two largest cities. WTF!
Tickerguy
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What the ****?! Your property tax rates are INCOME BASED?!

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Winding it down.
Asimov
Posts: 109815
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee Eastern Time
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Quote:
if I'm either somewhat older or (as in my case) snipped, so I cannot make more kids.


Why not just if you have kids? I mean, if you're not using it, why pay for it?

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Emg
Posts: 178
Incept: 2012-11-20

Canada
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Banning government schools would be a better idea. They only serve two purposes these days: indoctrinating kids in SJW twaddle, and providing 'free' childcare.

They'll be gone in twenty years regardless, because they make no sense in a post-industrial world.
Tickerguy
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@Asimov - that works too but I'm aware of NOWHERE that does THAT.

IMHO we should get rid of this "free public education" bull**** to start with, but that's a Constitutional Amendment (at the state level) thing; there is no requirement at the FEDERAL level for it, but it is in the State Constitutions and getting rid of it is something I'm not aware of anyone serious pursuing.

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Winding it down.
Asimov
Posts: 109815
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East Tennessee Eastern Time
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Agreed 100% on getting rid of public schools.

And I really could care less what replaces them, especially if there are no "standards" except local ones and teachers get paid for....

You know, I was going to say performance, but then it would be based on the definition of performance... And there are definitions of performance is public schools that I abhor.

I simply don't know of a way to quantify teaching performance that satisfies me.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Ckaminski
Posts: 4562
Incept: 2011-04-08

Mass-Hole!
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Quote:
Your property tax rates are INCOME BASED?!


Move.


You've just convinced me to move somewhere there are A) very few kids, and B) property taxes lower than my yearly clothes allowance (which is pretty low).

Flaps10
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PNW
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Property taxes that take your income into account? Sounds like income tax to me.
Nevertoolate
Posts: 1518
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San Antonio de Bexar de runover with illegals, Texas
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Texas freezes your "school" taxes at the value in the year you turn 65. That's about 2/3rds of ones total tax bill. Problem is by the time you get to 65, they are already so high you can't afford them. Pushing 3% of FMV until then. It doesn't reduce them, it just keeps 2/3rd of them from going up from there on. 600K house is about 15K per year. So 2/3 is frozen from there on. Wow great relief!

Root of the problem is in the 254 counties in the state, there are over 1,000 school districts. That's superintendents, asst. supers., and all of the administrative staff. The TEA (Texas Education Agency) is the state run agency that keeps this going.

New Super came into the town I lived in. He got the job AND his wife got a job teaching 2nd grade. Out of 128 applications! She obviously was the best choice?
Yeah, right?

Within two years, he was pushing for two spring breaks rather than one. Went by admin offices and they let it slip that "both" he and the asst. super would be gone to Colorado during the break. Did a little research and found that they both owned a time share in Colorado for "THAT" week of the new winter break in mid February. Got his ass fired. Public revolt.

The next guy that interviewed came from Presidio ISD (a ****hole on the border in W Texas. He refused their original salary offer and wanted 60K more. I told him in a public meeting he should pay us 60K year to get him out of that place.

I ran for school board and lost. They went ape**** just thinking I might win. Glad I am old and kids are grown. F em.

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Democracy is a conversation between 2 wolves & a sheep discussing what's for dinner. A Constitutional Republic is found when the sheep pulls out a gun & makes clear that his 2nd Amendment Right will be exercised should the wolves attempt to hold such a "vote."-KD 9-29-15
Goforbroke
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Ohio is one of (I think) four states which allows school districts to levy income taxes. The most "popular" are the unearned income taxes because they get the senior vote and those whose incomes are derived from investments.

Very dangerous precedent.

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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our Light, and not our Darkness, that most frightens us. -- Marianne Williamson
Tickerguy
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I thought about running for the school board here but having had several interactions with them the cesspool is so deep, so wide (including intentionally covering up abuse in the schools!) that I decided I'd rather not wind up contaminating my life with that **** -- especially considering that my kid is no longer subject to it directly and neither am I.

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Winding it down.
Nevertoolate
Posts: 1518
Incept: 2007-08-26
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San Antonio de Bexar de runover with illegals, Texas
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People who earn more most likely have more valuable homes. That's the connection.

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Democracy is a conversation between 2 wolves & a sheep discussing what's for dinner. A Constitutional Republic is found when the sheep pulls out a gun & makes clear that his 2nd Amendment Right will be exercised should the wolves attempt to hold such a "vote."-KD 9-29-15
Goforbroke
Posts: 7335
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Time to feed the chickens.
Online
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Quote:
I ran for school board and lost.
I was on our local school board for 3-1/2 years ... didn't make it the full 4 years, as it was absolutely frustrating and a total waste of time.

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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our Light, and not our Darkness, that most frightens us. -- Marianne Williamson
Nevertoolate
Posts: 1518
Incept: 2007-08-26
A True American Patriot!
San Antonio de Bexar de runover with illegals, Texas
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Never looked at anything political again. This was in a small town where everyone knew everyone too. People were boycotting my business and all kinds of evil things. And it was only 1996. The playbook they are using today has been around for a long time. The schools are screwed up even worse. I moved there in 83. The home I bought had taxes of $1,200 per year. Total. Today, that home's taxes are north of 20K per year and the same guy I sold it to still owns it and has made no improvements. Simple math.20,000/1200=16.67 increase or 47% increase per year. Bye!

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Democracy is a conversation between 2 wolves & a sheep discussing what's for dinner. A Constitutional Republic is found when the sheep pulls out a gun & makes clear that his 2nd Amendment Right will be exercised should the wolves attempt to hold such a "vote."-KD 9-29-15
Tickerguy
Posts: 152426
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Yeah, **** Texas. I looked at moving there a few years ago -- it LOOKS like a low-tax state, but it sure as **** is NOT. Colorado, for all its liberalism, is a LOT cheaper believe it or not -- even with their income tax!

The reason is right there -- property taxes. They're outrageous.

Now you can do worse -- you could be in Illinois that has both insane property tax AND an income tax.

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Winding it down.
Aztrader
Posts: 7961
Incept: 2007-09-10

Scottsdale, AZ
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Our town is pushing for a new town property tax they say is needed to keep the town up to snuff. These politicians need to run the town like a business and stop spending money on BS projects. The vote is in May and I plan on voting no. This money isn't for the schools, but a slush fund for politically sponsored projects.
As a single person with no kids, I can't stand it when I drive by these palatial high schools that cost millions to run. A property tax is one of the most regressive taxes because you can never escape it. When these teachers complain about salaries, the local paper needs to publish every state salary including teachers and administrators so the voting public can see what's really going on. Funny thing is that I have never seen this anywhere.
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