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2018-01-13 20:44 by Karl Denninger
in Editorial , 4317 references Ignore this thread
Quit LYING Hawaii
[Comments enabled]

There wasn't one false alarm.

There were two false alarms, according to reports now from the ground, about a half-hour apart.

They were not false alarms due to a mistake.

Someone really thought there was a missile coming in, and realized it was false only after a half-hour -- the point at which if it had been real everyone would have been incinerated.  In other words yes, it was a "false alarm" because there was no missile but the people who sounded the alarm really believed there was an inbound attack.

You're being lied to folks.

This was not a "fat finger" mistake.

A "fat finger" mistake does not repeat itself a half-hour later and, more to the point, the original alert wasn't immediately canceled either although the very people in that office who sent the alarm in Hawaii had to have phones on their persons and thus knew it went out immediately because they got it too.

So the question you ******n well better be demanding an answer to is this:

Who thought there really was an incoming ballistic missile headed for Hawaii -- and why?  Equally to the point where the **** is actual media with more than 2 firing neurons in their head, and why didn't the original story collapse and lead to immediate demands for answers as soon as it was made known there was a second alert.

Update 1/14 10:30CT: Hawaii now claims "one employee" did this by "accident" by pushing the wrong button twice.  If you believe that bald lie you're dumber than a box of rocks.  If any state or local emergency agency can send such an alert without an authenticated source message then they are incompetent at best and dangerous at the worst.  Are you really trying to sell me on the idea that one lone employee at one console, without any required authentication of the source message, can force-transmit a message to every media outlet and cellphone that the area is about to be incinerated by a nuclear warhead?  I don't believe for one second that this is the case for the simple reason that the public reaction to such an alert is likely to cost lives and as such both authentication and two persons reviewing same and concurring would be required to send any such alert in any even half-way competently-designed system.  They're lying.

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Krzelune
Posts: 5870
Incept: 2007-10-08

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I can confirm 2nd hand that there were two alerts. Cell phone and TV..about 30 minutes apart. Neither of them could remember with 100% assurance which was first, but both thought it was the phone. They are in their 70s and were scared and panicked.
Asimov
Posts: 109618
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee Eastern Time
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Somebody doesn't want you to know the magnitude of the screwup.

That's pretty ****ing scary, because we don't know how far up the chain this was believed. Keep in mind: there *IS* a military presence in hawaii. A pretty large one.

Pacific fleet command is in pearl harbor. They have phones too. They also have the numbers for the people who matter. You can bet your sweet ass that within 5 minutes of seeing the alert (probably a LOT less than that,) they knew whatever norad did. It couldn't possibly have taken more than 5 more minutes to get a hold of the emergency alert people and tell them to get their head out of their ass.

Something ****ing stinks.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Asimov
Posts: 109618
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East Tennessee Eastern Time
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Quote:
While the agency tweeted 10 minutes after the alert went out that it was a false alarm, it didn't reach people who were not on or checking the social media platform.

For the 38 minutes it took before a corrected message was broadcast, the alert caused panic around the state.


http://abc7.com/politics/hawaii-emergenc....

Heh. Timing of the tweet fits my scenario above.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Asimov
Posts: 109618
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And later in that same article:

Quote:
The governor added that in order to prevent the error from occurring again, the state will change its procedures by having more than one person involved in pushing the correct button.

Officials also said the reason it took so long to send a correction is that there is no way to send a false alarm alert. It had to be done manually, which is something else that will be changed.


Are you trying to tell me there's a physical button with no safeguards on it that somebody can push to warn the entire state of an incoming ballistic missile? Even if the whole "button push" thing is just a simplification, the fact that a single person can make this mistake seems... unusual... given the safeguards generally used on **** like this. Not to mention the fact that we haven't seen these kinds of mistakes very often at all.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Asimov
Posts: 109618
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East Tennessee Eastern Time
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Timeline: https://dod.hawaii.gov/hiema/files/2018/....

(Some reports of warning sirens being sounded as well. They are on an entirely different system and required another "oops" to sound.)

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Bagbalm
Posts: 5323
Incept: 2009-03-19

Just North of Detroit
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I assumed it was a test in this limited area to see what people would do. They now know and can decide how to proceed in the continental US. I wonder how many extra heart attacks the ERs had roll in?
Bagbalm
Posts: 5323
Incept: 2009-03-19

Just North of Detroit
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This is a very strange idea. It occurred to me after my first post.
I'm getting to see some of the weird thought patterns these people have.
Could this have been like the black people who spray paint KKK on their garage door or Jews who key swastikas in their own car door?
Could it have been done to arouse public concern over what they see as Trump creating risk of nuclear war with North Korea? That the sheep need a good scare to make them feel it is a real worry?
Asimov
Posts: 109618
Incept: 2007-08-26

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Bag: Or... to get a bit more twisted... Maybe gaming out how many people would actually make it to cover and survive if we attacked NK and they responded with a missile.

Just adding up the numbers you know. "How many lives would it cost us, if...?"

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Krzelune
Posts: 5870
Incept: 2007-10-08

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Have you ever dealt with Hawaii government? Occom's razer definitely applies.
Dudefish
Posts: 142
Incept: 2010-02-20

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Well, Kim Jong Un just shat his tighty whiteys, that's for sure.
Dudefish
Posts: 142
Incept: 2010-02-20

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I don't know how the emergency broadcast system works today, but I worked in radio in the 1980s and so I remember a little bit about how it worked back then.

No **** here, dudes. We had a folder in the control room with two or three different color envelopes in them. We were under strict orders that they were NEVER UPON ANY CIRCUMSTANCE to be opened UNLESS we received a civil defense (i.e. nuke) alert. As you have guessed, those envelopes contained authentication codes. The alert would come with an authentication code, and if the codes matched, we were to go live with the report. Otherwise, the report would not be broadcast.

Periodically (monthly?), we had to send the envelopes back and get new ones.

So under the system we had in the 1980s, a fat finger alert like this COULD NOT have happened. It had to come from the government, and local broadcasters had to authenticate it against secret codes before broadcasting it.

So either we've gone way backwards or someone's talking bull****.
Robc
Posts: 26
Incept: 2009-09-10

Cincinnati
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Embarrassing hack maybe?
Rollformer
Posts: 188
Incept: 2013-02-13

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Interesting that it was a half hour between alarms. I would probably have given an all clear on my own after 20 minutes or so.
Click
Posts: 76
Incept: 2017-06-26

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"False Alarm"

Firstly, it's obvious there's a cover-up going on. There are steps which have to take place before an alert like that one is broadcast.

I lived on Maui for twelve years, and used it as my home base for extensive travel. But it's been too long ago to provide updated info on how the the Hawaiian emergency system works. Things have changed, but there still must be some kind of "failsafe" procedure in place. In the past, you could not just accidentally push a button and a warning would be sent out. So, unless they changed the protocol, something must really be wrong --- like in the ****ed up IT department. I could see how it could be some computer screw job or even a backdoor or, perhaps, a hacked system.. Yeah, when it comes to computers, those ****ing machines make so many SNAFUS possible. I mean, just look at the ****ing mess the SCADA systems are in. And how vulnerable are the systems? It's pretty ****ing scary.

I've been warning people for decades that man has never invented a weapon that wasn't used. And modern nuclear warfare won't be any different.....

..... The larger, more important question is: what are you and I going to do when it's NOT really a false alarm?
Elkad
Posts: 358
Incept: 2009-09-04

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This whole thing stinks.

I don't know how the infrastructure in Maui and Oahu held up, but when the 8:07 alert went out, the Big Island effectively lost internet and phones (cell and landline both). My family there couldn't contact anyone, not even locally, after getting the alert. So those (eventual) cancellation notices via twitter and FB were useless. Not until the text went out again did they know it was a false alarm.

I just thought to ask (via social media) if the warning sirens went off, haven't heard back yet.

No way to check if the local shelter was even open (shy of driving there) or anything else.

So they just buttoned up the house, and hunkered down. Mom's closest neighbors, a nice Marshallese extended family (about 20 people in 800 square feet of house - with limited English) sent a boy about 12 as a runner to ask what they should do. Mom told them "gather everyone in the house like for a hurricane, and pray. If it's real, we'll know soon. Then you come back and we make plans".
Aztrader
Posts: 7913
Incept: 2007-09-10

Scottsdale, AZ
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When it happens for real, how will Pavlov's dog act?............
Tickerguy
Posts: 151187
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Here's a nasty thought: An intentional false alarm that the person(s) responsible hope goads Trump into immediately nuking the Norks.

Remember, half the country, roughly, thinks the guy is unstable enough to nuke someone without warning -- or worse.

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Winding it down.

Bjonsson
Posts: 1063
Incept: 2010-03-10

Ventura County, California
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Quote:
Bag: Or... to get a bit more twisted... Maybe gaming out how many people would actually make it to cover and survive if we attacked NK and they responded with a missile.

This was my initial thought. Might this have been some intentional test to observe how the population reacted?... in order to learn how they might need to tweak their civil defense messaging?


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"If you don't have borders... if you don't have laws... you don't have a country."
Quik49
Posts: 4257
Incept: 2007-12-11

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Here's your fall guy.... what a crock....one guy with that much power....buuuulll****.

Vern Miyagi, who oversees the Hawaii Emergency Management Agency (EMA), said at a news conference late Saturday that the civil defense employee who pushed the wrong button regrets what took place

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Long Vaseline....

Click
Posts: 76
Incept: 2017-06-26

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So the latest from the Hawaiian Governor is only one employee is responsible and it's only a two-step process to send out an alert..... Lol.

I almost believe it. Because the people running the show now are really that ****ing stupid...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/13/haw....
Punch_rockgroin
Posts: 2339
Incept: 2008-12-31

Pacific NW USA
Online
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Thrown under the bus by Mr Miyagi. That sucks.

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Put the boots to him. Medium style.
Rollformer
Posts: 188
Incept: 2013-02-13

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Mr. Miyagi appears to be (or have been) a Major General in the Army Reserve. You would think that his military experience would make him question why one person can terrorize an entire state with the push of a button.
Quik49
Posts: 4257
Incept: 2007-12-11

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Just see the contrasting bull....

What a crock...

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/14/politics/t....




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Long Vaseline....

Cluelessinfl
Posts: 175
Incept: 2011-01-08

Florida East Coast
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Quote:
Here's a nasty thought: An intentional false alarm that the person(s) responsible hope goads Trump into immediately nuking the Norks.


Well, they're pretty ****ing stupid if they think we couldn't verify a missile launch with all our early warning assets (land, air, space..NORAD, etc.).

However, I could see someone suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome doing that. Or was it intentionally done to deflect from some other news event (Uranium One indictment)?

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Land of the Free my ass.
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