Heros and Zeros: Vegas
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2017-10-10 09:32 by Karl Denninger
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Heros and Zeros: Vegas
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Update 2017/10/13: Now we have yet another timeline from the various copshops out there. IF you can't even get the basic facts straight (like, who called you and when -- you know, time-stamped 911 calls?) what else are you lying about?  Sorry, but I still ain't buying what you're selling -- ed.

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Time to call out a few, given that Reuters is making excuses (big shock).

I'll start with the heroes.  Among them was the unarmed hotel security guy who attempted to interdict the shooter but could not get through the door because the shooter had driven screws into the frame.  He took a round to the leg when the shooter blindly emptied a mag through the door of the suite but he'll be ok.

Next up is the ex-service member who stole a truck and used it to transport injured people out of the kill zone.  If they prosecute that guy, and you know they're thinking about it, everyone involved in attempting to do so needs to hang from a public gallows in the middle of the Las Vegas strip.  This guy put himself in harm's way, he saved lives, he did it at great personal risk and he made a decision that the jackbooted ****heads in our government can and might attempt to use to destroy him.  He in fact took more risk than dying in that if they come after him a felony grand theft auto conviction will ruin him for life, and his only defense to the charge is drawing a jury that refuses to convict him.

Not far behind that guy are the multiple reports of others, some active duty service members on leave, some off-duty officers and others who are just ordinary people, who (1) dragged, carried or otherwise got others out of the kill zone or behind hard cover where they could not be shot (again), (2) used their bodies as shields over the top of others, in some cases with tragic results and (3) took other actions that made them easier to hit but shielded or otherwise saved others.  There have been multiple reports of such people; they put their own life on the line for others.  Some of them were severely injured and I do not doubt that some number of them died.

There are undoubtedly many more than can be readily identified who took similar actions. 

They're heroes.  All of them.

Now let's talk about the zeros and be prepared to get pissed off.

VERY pissed off.

LAS VEGAS (Reuters) - Las Vegas had spent years planning for the worst: training its police force according to an anti-terrorism protocol it adopted in 2009 to respond to mass shootings, chemical attacks, suicide bombings, and planes flying into buildings, according to city officials and security professionals.

But when it came to Sunday night’s attack that killed 58 people and wounded hundreds more at an open-air concert in the city, police found themselves with few options to stop the gunman quickly, they said. It underscored the difficulty American cities face in protecting citizens from attacks that can take unpredictable forms.

Reuters even had the gall to run a photo of these guys posing on a balcony somewhere in the city.  I don't recognize the exact vista, but it doesn't matter.  That they would laud these people is outrageousnot one of them did one effective thing to end the attack.

It gets worse.  Much worse.

At 9:59 p.m., Campos (e.d. The unarmed security guard above) was shot in the leg after Paddock fired 200 shots into the hallway. Paddock began shooting into the crowd six minutes later, contradicting original reports that Campos’ arrival is what stopped Paddock’s mass shooting.

Between the time that Campos was shot and Paddock began shooting, Campos notified authorities of what happened, which Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department Undersheriff Kevin McMahill said Friday was “absolutely critical” as it gave police Paddock’s exact location.

**** you Kevin McMahill.  Your ******n department is directly responsible for the deaths of these people because your officers are cowards.

Those primped-up clowns up-armored, up-armed and then sat in the ****ing stairway for over an hour despite knowing this dickhead was loaded up and actively shooting innocent, unarmed and defenseless civilians from above.

The cops sat on their asses while the gunman shot and killed all the people in the crowd despite having every ability to stop it before it ever happened while knowing exactly where he was.

If you, in the military, sat and cowered behind hard cover while the enemy shot up your unit your ass would sit in front of a court martial for cowardice before the enemy under Article 99, you'd be convicted, you would go to Leavenworth as you'd be charged with those deaths due to your intentional inaction and then you'd get a dishonorable discharge when your sentence was served.

It is in fact possible under Article 99 to get the death penalty for cowardice of this sort in a military unit.

When these cowards finally blew the door open to the suite the shooter had ceased shooting (presumed dead of a self-inflicted gunshot) for roughly an hour.  Their "action" consisted of showing up to mop up his blood and sweep up his cartridges.  They saved exactly zero lives and took exactly zero effective actions to end or otherwise limit the assault.  They might have actually saved at least one life if they had gone into the crowd and attempted to stabilize those who had been shot rather than prance around in their body armor and play TV-style SWAT.

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN IN CASE YOU MISSED IT THE FIRST TIME: The effective actions of the police with regard to stopping the jackass during this incident number an exact zero.  They are ALL outrageously arrogant, cowardly *******s in that they posed for photos instead of apologizing and offering to resign for their utter failure to do one single effective thing with all the money, equipment and alleged "training" the people of Las Vegas and the State of Nevada have showered upon them in anticipation of exactly this sort of event.  The only thing those ****heads cared about was getting their ******n pension and every penny of it should be forfeit along with their job -- right damn now.  These rat bastards shouldn't be able to show their faces in public ever again without seeing the bird.

The lies being accepted by the media are even more-outrageous.

“Our officers showed incredible restraint. They can fire that distance. It’s not safe to do so,” said Robert Chamberlin, a member of the Las Vegas police department’s counter-terrorism force. “You are firing 32 floors up, from 500 meters (yards). So the trajectory of our rounds...even if we were accurate, they’re going to go up into the ceiling, up into the next floor.”

That is a knowing lie.  The floors (and of course ceilings, since the ceiling in your room is the floor of the one above) are poured reinforced concrete.  All high-rise buildings of reasonably-recent construction are put together this way and Mandalay Bay is no exception; the "grid" is made of steel and then the floors themselves are poured in place. The rounds thus fired, if any had been fired and if fired accurately enough to go in the broken window were most-certainly not going to go up into the ceiling and next floor because the surface they would impact is reinforced concrete.  The arrogant doucheface who made that statement knows this; his claim is thus not a mistake or an error, it is a lie told to attempt to excuse his personal lack of action, probably because they had staged exactly nobody and thus had no one in a reasonable position to immediately attempt to engage the shooter.

Now it is true that to get him you'd probably have to have a line of fire somewhere close to level because he was likely prone on the floor.  So what?  These ****heads didn't even try to get in; they cowered in the stairwell!  Even if they had challenged the gunman and he didn't at that moment kill himself for every second you distract him and either force him to keep his head down or induce him to shoot back at the cops with his weapons that had severely-degraded accuracy that is one second he cannot use to shoot at the compact mass of civilians below where hits are nearly certain!

In addition there were all sorts of zeros at and before the incident itself, but expecting a 100% correct response and interdiction by authorities is not reasonable.  It won't happen.  The hotel missed him hauling two dozen weapons and thousands of rounds of ammunition into his room, for example.  Roughly 1,000 rounds of 5.56 will fit in a military-surplus "ammo can" that is under a foot on a side but all that lead is heavy; 8 of those stacked on a luggage cart is definitely going to draw attention.  Sticking the same contents in a big suitcase would make it impossible to lift; said suitcase would weigh over 200lbs! The weapons themselves aren't all that heavy (~11lbs each) but 20 of them are and they're also relatively large -- civilian-legal 16" barrels are, well, 16" long -- minimum, of course, plus the rest of the mechanism assuming they're assembled.  So figure a rifle has a 2', roughly, minimum length dimension broken down.  Hauling 20 of them into a room again, is not impossible but will take multiple trips and some planning.

Then there's "where the hell do you put all of that where the cleaning crew won't find it by accident?"  We're talking about more guns than fit in most residential gun safes and a good part of a closet full of ammunition.  There's plenty of closet space in a hotel suite, of course, but guns look like, well, guns.

This guy was a known high-roller so him being there wasn't odd, and apparently we now have reports his room was comp'd.  Ok, but how'd he get that room?  The hotel was full.  Special request?  Made when, may I ask?  No answers on that so far.  But let's just leave the hotel thing this way: The hotel missed multiple opportunities, but this guy did apparently attempt to get rooms with this sort of view over festivals over the previous few months, did succeed, and nobody thought it was odd.  That's sort of like 9/11 -- nobody really thought boxcutters were weapons to be afraid of on airplanes.  They were wrong, and that points out the simple fact that unless you notice that something is odd and dangerous you're not going to be bothered by it.  The world is full of odd people and you can't arrest or detain someone for being strange; the strange has to also be accompanied by something that appears to be harmful.

Just like with 9/11, however, there were multiple additional things that were missed and those we can properly charge to the authorities in specific terms since they continually have, use and demand a nearly-airtight "surveillance state" in the US.

Prior to 9/11 the FBI received actual reports of suspicious activity at a flight simulator in Florida.  They ignored those reports and, as it turns out, those were the hijackers.  Florida's Governor Bush issued driver licenses to several of the hijackers despite exactly zero of those being issued to citizens; in other words, he issued Florida Driver Licenses to foreign nationals who did not have green cards.  He was never held to account for this nor was the Secretary of State.  Those credentials were used to board the planes.  If either of those two things hadn't happened neither would have 9/11 and that's a fact so we can properly charge all 3,000 deaths to both the FBI and Governor Bush because in both cases there was no legitimate excuse for refusing to investigate the report nor is there one for issuing state identification credentials (driver licenses) to non-permanent residents.

Similarly, in this case if the hotel had paid attention to a guy hauling multiple large and heavy items up to his suite, vastly out of character for someone who is coming to gamble for a few days, there would have been no attack.  But they didn't.  The only real difference is that Las Vegas hotel security postures aren't really set up for this purpose and it's not really their job either, when you get down to it.  Their posture has always been about not getting robbed with the crazy amount of money they have in the counting room and the cage, and with good cause.  That might change a bit now, of course. 

The bottom line when it comes to what is now showing up in the light of day is this:

For a rage-monster attack, which this appears to have been thus far, the most-important thing is to offer resistance to his assault immediately.

To offer resistance you must be armed in some fashion and be there, which means the most-effective way to stop these attacks and limit their body count is for everyone to be armed all the time.  Had just one person in an adjoining room had a gun and used it, even ineffectively in this instance it is a near-certainty that the shooter would have killed fewer than 10 people and injured less than 50.

He got more than five times the body count and ten times the injury rate because (1) nobody in the immediate vicinity, all of whom were ordinary civilians, were armed and the LEO response was their usual SWAT-style chicken**** nonsense of up-arm and up-armoring first to "coordinate" and "protect themselves" instead of immediately storming the floor despite knowing exactly where the shooter was several minutes before he started shooting at the crowd.

This is EXACTLY the same sort of horse**** that played out near Orlando.

THE SECOND AMENDMENT PROVIDES THE IMMEDIATE AND NECESSARY ANTIDOTE TO THESE SORTS OF ATTACKS. THE POLITICIANS AND OTHERS WHO HAVE CONTINUALLY DESTROYED BOTH ITS INTENT AND THE BLACK LETTERS IN WHICH ITS WORDS ARE WRITTEN MUST BE HELD TO ACCOUNT FOR THESE DEATHS ALONG WITH THE RANK COWARDICE OF THOSE WHO DARE CALL THEMSELVES POLICE OFFICERS BUT ARE IN FACT COWARDLY *******S WHO ARE SO MORALLY AND ETHICALLY BANKRUPT THAT IT WOULD BE AN INSULT TO SWINE TO CALL THEM "PIGS".

THE LATTER'S COWARDICE, WHICH WOULD BE A CRIMINAL ACT IF A MEMBER OF THE MILITARY DID THE SAME THING IN A COMBAT ZONE, IS WHY THIS JACKASS MANAGED TO KILL 50+ AND WOUND MORE THAN 500.

THE BLOOD AND LIVES OF THOSE INJURED AND KILLED IN LAS VEGAS ARE LITERALLY ON THE HANDS OF EVERY LAST ONE OF THOSE COWARDS.  NOW I KNOW WHY ALL THOSE LOCAL COPS LOOKED SO DAMN SCARED ON THE TEE VEE -- THEY KNEW WITHIN HOURS OF THE ATTACK THAT THIS WOULD COME OUT AND WHEN IT DID THEY WOULD BE EXPOSED FOR THE COWARDS THAT THEY ARE AND THAT THEY ARE WHY THE SHOOTER MANAGED TO KILL MORE THAN 50 AND WOUND MORE THAN 500.

LET ME BE CLEAR JUST IN CASE YOU HAVE TROUBLE WITH READING: THE LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY IN LAS VEGAS WAS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERY ONE OF THOSE DEATHS AND INJURIES BECAUSE THEY COWERED IN A STAIRWELL AND LET THAT ******* SHOOT CIVILIANS UNTIL HE WAS BORED, THEN KILL HIMSELF AT HIS LEISURE, INSTEAD OF DOING THEIR ****ING JOB AND IMMEDIATELY STORMING THE ROOM.

WE NEED A FEDERAL ARTICLE 99 THAT APPLIES TO EVERY LAST LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY AND WE NEED IT NOW SO THOSE WHO ARE COWARDS UNDER FIRE INSTEAD OF MANNING UP AND DOING THEIR JOB CAN BE TOSSED IN PRISON, THEN STRIPPED OF THEIR PENSIONS AND REPUTATION AFTER THEIR JUST SENTENCE HAS BEEN SERVED.

IN ADDITION THE SECOND AMENDMENT MUST BE RESTORED VIA FEDERAL PREEMPTION TO ITS ORIGINAL WORDS IN FULL ON AN IMMEDIATE BASIS SO THAT EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN CAN CARRY OPENLY OR CONCEALED AS HE OR SHE CHOOSES EVERYWHERE AND ALL THE DAMN TIME, THUS PROVIDING THE ORDINARY PERSON A FAIR CHANCE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.  THIS IS MADE NECESSARY BY THE FACT THAT THE SO-CALLED "POLICE OFFICERS" HAVE REPEATEDLY SHOWN THEY HAVE AND WILL REFUSE TO DO THEIR DAMN JOBS.  ANY POLITICIAN WHO REFUSES TO TAKE AND ENFORCE THIS ACTION RIGHT HERE AND NOW MUST BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE FOR CAUSE, ASSET STRIPPED TO THEIR UNDERWEAR AND SEE ONLY MIDDLE FINGERS WHEREVER THEY OR THEIR FAMILY GO FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.

PERIOD.

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Asimov
Posts: 109514
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East Tennessee Eastern Time
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Amen.

People need to keep in mind that there is no requirement that any cop has to risk their life to protect yours.

If you want protection, you better damn well provide it yourself.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Quik49
Posts: 4094
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This will never hit MSM.... the basic story is now buried so deep it isn't even funny. A friend posted on FB to a thread from a GA cop (32k followers) that was going on about the hero guard....I popped in and called bull**** with the latest news about the stairwell squatters....the cop then went and updated his post to include it...even so, not a word about their inaction...but the thread is taking it on.... The hypocrisy of LE disgusts me...so many lives lost because of their inaction...yet the story is still about the security officers actions and not the inaction of the squatters

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Long Vaseline....

Callingit
Posts: 1
Incept: 2017-10-10

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yeah. I called bs on this story immediately. I did not even follow the news, waited till the dust settled. Then, the following day I read an account of what happened. I immediately wondered how he could shoot for 8 minutes with no response for over an hour, no awareness of where he was (w broken windows!) etc. In Iraq, one shot we had a guess where it came from, sustained fire in a couple seconds we had a direction and estimate on range and immediately called it up and actioned on it. Immediately! Here they sat on their doughnuts and did nothing while people were dying. And people wonder why I have so little respect for LE... run around in their uniforms and hide behind their badges, here their badges were pretty small except for in front of the camera... maybe that is why the LV PD Chief looks so pissed, he figured out his whole organization is a ticket writing sham bunch of cowards...
Nadavegan
Posts: 47
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The South
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I lived in Las Vegas for several years, way back in the day. Let's just say that the LVPD never had a reputation for NOT gunning people down. Maybe had the shooter been a person of color driving 7 mph over the speed limit, things would have turned out differently.
Edn
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AGREED!!!!!
Tickerguy
Posts: 150073
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A True American Patriot!
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Quote:
I lived in Las Vegas for several years, way back in the day. Let's just say that the LVPD never had a reputation for NOT gunning people down. Maybe had the shooter been a person of color driving 7 mph over the speed limit, things would have turned out differently.

They only shoot at people who don't shoot back.

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Winding it down.

Drifter
Posts: 141
Incept: 2016-02-11

Pacific Northwest
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If memory serves, cops sat on their ass at Columbine as well. Even if they couldn't get in through the door, shooting a few rounds threw it would have distracted the gunman from his targets.

I cannot fathom why the police have become an almost sacred cow with a large chunk of the body politic, especially on the right.

The same goes for some firefighters battling fires around Brewster/Omak, WA. A small satellite fire was spreading, firemen were just watching until a rancher pulls up in his D4 Cat, and put it out himself. Instead of getting a thanks, the fire captain threatened him with prosecution for bulldozing on National Forest land.

If I were a castaway on Gilligan's Island, I wouldn't be trying to escape.

Ckaminski
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Mass-Hole!
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You don't write in ALL-CAPS very often, but when you do holy **** is it amazing.
Als
Posts: 576
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When people realize that every case that has ever hit the Supreme Court has been ruled that the police are NOT required to protect the public, they're shocked.

The police are only required to protect the politicians and witnesses for the state. That statement came for two police officers I know.



Jpg
Posts: 439
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MI
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It became obvious after Columbine that "SWAT" actually stands for

Jpg
Posts: 439
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MI
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It became obvious after Columbine that "SWAT" actually stands for

Sniveling
Whining
Abjectly
Terrified.
Krzelune
Posts: 5781
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However, If he would have been a criminal sleeping in a house with kids, pets and spouse, SQUAT would have charged in potentially shooting the dog, babies and spouse instead of waiting for him to go buy a six pack.
Spanktron9
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Reality.
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Dr. Alford invented the solution to this over a decade ago. I'm quite sure LV SWAT has at least one and has trained with it. The breach alone would have likely taken out the shooter.
http://explosives.net/product/gatecrashe....

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"Winter is coming." -Motto of House Stark
"Don't coast through life. Grab it by the hair and **** it half to death." - Jotapay
"Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general" - Mark Rippetoe
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Als
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The most important thing that has come out of this is ISIS and other Islamic terrorists now know that the local police will not engage an active shooter.

It's like open invitation to come in and slaughter as many civilians as they can with as few personnel as they need to do the terrorist act or acts.

Since you don't have to worry about an armed response until the local law enforcement has brought in an overwhelming force, you don't need a large contingent to repeal the opposing force while your engage in a terrorist act.

So the terrorists now know they have at least an hour or longer before they will be engaged with lethal force.
Elkad
Posts: 327
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So a panel shows a held-open door on 32. (not the shooter's door)
Unarmed guard (one of 200 on-shift) goes to investigate.
****bag sees him on hallcam, blasts 200 rounds through the wall/door, hits guard once.
Hotel calls police.
5-6 minutes later the shooting out the window starts.

I've got another problem. Look here.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/unarmed-se....

17 ARMED guards on shift, plus 183 unarmed guards who could have grabbed fire axes, rocks, or whatever else. And probably a weapons locker with at least a few more firearms in it. They had 6 minutes to get to their downed co-worker before the shooting started, and another 9-12 minutes of listening to "machine gun" fire out the door.

WHAT IN THE EVERLOVING **** WERE THE GUARDS DOING WHILE PEOPLE WERE DYING?

Yeah, he ran screws into the door so it wouldn't open. Did they even try? Did they try the door from the connecting room? His suite is a big curved thing, did they try going through a wall at the other end?

Do they even have a response plan other than "hide and wait for the police" if their own hotel gets attacked, even just an armed robbery?
Tickerguy
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Quote:
Yeah, he ran screws into the door so it wouldn't open. Did they even try? Did they try the door from the connecting room? His suite is a big curved thing, did they try going through a wall at the other end?

Shotgun to the hinge area; three blasts (one for each hinge.) Blows the hinges right off the door and then screws or no screws, it can be kicked in easily.

10 seconds, maximum, and the door is "open."

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Winding it down.
Alosix
Posts: 993
Incept: 2009-03-31

Behind enemy lines..
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Quote:
WHAT IN THE EVERLOVING **** WERE THE GUARDS DOING WHILE PEOPLE WERE DYING?


That is the whole deal isn't it.

Those that want us to give up the 2nd, want us to rely on that for 'protection'. TV really is going to be the death of this round of civilization.

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"Software Development is one of those jobs, like picking lettuce, or cleaning toilets, that Americans just refuse to do." : STCM
Quik49
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Still trying to understand how the guard saved lives..... and hour AFTER he quit shooting they entered...WTF ...he's there 6 minutes before the shooting and they enter an hour after he stops..... So, why did he stop?...earlier reports are he stopped because they were coming in...no?

"About an hour after Paddock quit firing, a SWAT team gained entry to the suite by blowing the doors off with explosives. Paddock was found dead inside from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Without Campos action, the mass murderers rampage that killed 58 people could have been even more deadly."

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Long Vaseline....

Tickerguy
Posts: 150073
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He spent 200 rds on Campos that he could have spent on the crowd below.

What the DICKHEADS in the media DON'T say is that ALL the rounds could have been spent on the SWAT team (blind, mind you, with them able to take hard cover behind the CONCRETE sections of the walls and then blast the door off the hinges) instead of on the CROWD BELOW.

It's their ****ING JOB to storm the ******n room. Instead they demonstrated UTTER COWARDICE and dereliction of their DUTY.

These dickheads all need to be fired, stripped of their pensions and the entire ****ing department DISBANDED.

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Winding it down.

Quik49
Posts: 4094
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ok...makes some sense.
Those guys in the stairwell prior to the "A-Team" showing up had a rifle...and odds are it wasn't a musket or bolt action WWI Springfield 30-06....could have done a little spraying themselves.

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Long Vaseline....

Rjrstan
Posts: 21
Incept: 2007-08-13

Carlsbad, CA
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"I'll start with the heroes. Among them was the unarmed hotel security guy who attempted to interdict the shooter but could not get through the door because the shooter had driven screws into the frame. He took a round to the leg when the shooter blindly emptied a mag through the door of the suite but he'll be ok."

Heard this morning that this security guy was sent up to that floor because people heard "Drilling". He arrived before this guy started shooting into the crowd.

Kinda makes this sentence even more infuriating.

"What the DICKHEADS in the media DON'T say is that ALL the rounds could have been spent on the SWAT team (blind, mind you, with them able to take hard cover behind the CONCRETE sections of the walls and then blast the door off the hinges) instead of on the CROWD BELOW.

It's their ****ING JOB to storm the ******n room. Instead they demonstrated UTTER COWARDICE and dereliction of their DUTY."
Nadavegan
Posts: 47
Incept: 2017-05-03

The South
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The reports of the security guard saving lives would have HAD to have been known to be false by the police and press. There's no way that detail gets mistaken.

It reminds me of the scene at the end of "LA Confidential" where the spin doctors realize that is isn't enough to have a villain to pin the corruption on; in order to get the public to buy their story, they need to assign a hero as well.
Asimov
Posts: 109514
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee Eastern Time
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How long after the shooting started did swat arrive?

That's one question I've not seen answered. I'm quite sure it wasn't in the 6 minutes after campos was shot.

Had the shooting already stopped when they got there?

I've not seen that timeline yet.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Alosix
Posts: 993
Incept: 2009-03-31

Behind enemy lines..
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Quote:
So, why did he stop?...earlier reports are he stopped because they were coming in...no?


Given the change in gaurd timing. I'm starting to believe the rumors of negligent discharge a bit more. For this guy's collection, he still appeared to be a bit of a gun newb.


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"Software Development is one of those jobs, like picking lettuce, or cleaning toilets, that Americans just refuse to do." : STCM
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