The Deception of So-Called 'Health Petitioner' Weissman
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2017-01-05 09:26 by Karl Denninger
in Health Reform , 861 references Ignore this thread
The Deception of So-Called 'Health Petitioner' Weissman
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There's been zero major media coverage of this, but it has shown up on the web:

Steven I. Weissman, sent President-elect Donald Trump a petition to end predatory pricing in the healthcare industry. The petition, signed by more than 104,000 Americans, was delivered Wednesday evening to Trump Tower in New York City. It is the first petition of its kind, and the first one the president-elect has received regarding healthcare.

Weissman became the president of a Miami hospital when a friend, who founded the hospital, passed away. During his tenure as president, Weissman was able to get an inside look at how healthcare operates in the U.S., and, in his own words, it was “sickening.”

“The biggest problem in healthcare is that there is no pricing at all,” Weissman tells The Daily Caller News Foundation. “It is not a coincidence that the only product or service permitted to be sold in the U.S. without legitimate pricing, is the one which has imposed tremendous financial hardship.”

All of this is already illegal.

It is illegal in the State of Florida under 501.001 - 501.213 to engage in any sort of deceptive practice when it comes to any good or service offered to consumers.  There are additional particular provisions related to seniors, but the general framework is valid for everyone.  There is no exception in that law, nor in similar laws in other states, for any part of health care.

Not actually having a price or varying same based on method of payment without prior disclosure is a per-se and blatantly deceptive act.  Try it when offering oil changes to the public for their cars and see how long you stay out of jail.

Further, these practices are illegal under the entire body of 15 USC Chapter 1.  It is not possible for such an industry to maintain these practices without collusion and yet collision in fixing prices is per-se illegal under 15 United States Code.

It is further illegal to discriminate in pricing of commodities (that is, physical goods) sold, manufactured or used in interstate commerce between buyers of like kind and quantity.  This means drugs, medical supplies and hardware of various sorts, all of which are manufactured and shipped in interstate (and international) commerce cannot lawfully be priced differently between consumers of like kind and quantity of same.  That, once again, is long-standing law (Robinson-Patman) and part of 15 United States Code!  For what it's worth I shoved a several hundred thousand dollar purchase order up a major vendors ******* on exactly that basis when I discovered they were engaged in discriminatory pricing during my years in running MCSNet.  They folded and gave me the same price they had charged others for like kind and quantity.  I had to cut a purchase order with a committed delivery schedule that was rather larger in quantity than I would have preferred, but it was very worth it.

In point of fact this "petition" is amusing but in a non-funny sort of way on several levels.  First, it's hardly new; you can read my Ticker on this point, which in fact was the first that was put in the "Health Reform" category on the Ticker immediately after it was created in 2009.  Or, if you prefer, click here and start reading backwards on the timeline among those articles that remain available.

Second, you can read the voluminous set of articles I've written on this point both before and since in which I have clearly delineated that these practices certainly appear to be in rank violation of both state and federal law and yet nobody goes to jail nor does the government at any level give a damn about you being raped blind by these firms. In fact they not only cheer it on they allow their court systems to be used in your pursuit if you don't knuckle under!  This is not small-ball either -- it constitutes almost one dollar in five spent in the economy today, or somewhere north of $3 trillion a year that is extracted with roughly 80% of it happening due to these practices.  If it's not worth prosecuting at a state or federal level when at least $2 trillion is stolen from you every year exactly how much has to be taken before it will be?

Third, you can contemplate whether passing another law will do a damn thing when nobody will insist on the enforcement of existing law that speaks to the same issue, the same point, and contains not only monstrous civil but felony criminal penalties as well.  This is a body of law that has been on the books in many cases (15 USC) for over 100 years and yet exactly zero hospital administrators have been charged nor have any of the so-called "networks", despite it being clear to anyone who has read said law that these practices are already illegal.

Finally, if you think Trump is going to do one damned thing about any of this you need to get your mouth off his Johnson because he not only won't he will actively make it worse.  We know this to be fact because his HHS appointee is one of the architects in Congress of the existing system and has attempted, in the past, to shove balance-billing, which is an artifact of said system, down the throats of those on Medicare -- that is, Seniors.

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User Info The Deception of So-Called 'Health Petitioner' Weissman in forum [Market-Ticker]
Fedwatcher
Posts: 1927
Incept: 2009-04-07

Southern California
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Since at the county level of government the DA, grand jury, police, and judges have the power to prosecute these cases, we see how deep this corruption is.

These elected and appointed individuals refuse to enforce the law without directly receiving bribes from the hospitals.

They instead seek to receive these bribes when they climb-up the political ladder to higher office.

It will take many election cycles of voting-out incumbents to Drain The Swamp.
Themortgagedude
Posts: 10110
Incept: 2007-12-17

saint louis
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We'll all see soon enough. If you're right we go down in flames as a country. Here's hoping the Orange Menace gives them different walking orders. Not holding my breath though.

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I think its time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that our founding fathers intended for us. Ronald Reagan 1964
Themortgagedude
Posts: 10110
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saint louis
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He was on with Tucker Carlson on Tuesday. He's the dude I texted you about. Pretty much gave a blueprint on how they been screwing us forever.

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I think its time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that our founding fathers intended for us. Ronald Reagan 1964
Tickerguy
Posts: 147632
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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I understand.

Now ask why he wasn't arrested on the spot, seeing as he confessed, on the air, to what certainly appear to be very clear and intentional violations of both state and federal law.

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Winding it down.
Themortgagedude
Posts: 10110
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saint louis
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He didn't make the connection that he really was admitting to criminal behavior. I agree that he was however.

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I think its time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that our founding fathers intended for us. Ronald Reagan 1964
Tickerguy
Posts: 147632
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Well of course not, thus, the "request" for a "new law."

But there's no need for a "new law"; long-standing, indeed, 100+ year old law is more than sufficient.

Of course if the law is never enforced then it's worth zero -- old, new or otherwise.

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Winding it down.
Gauntlet33
Posts: 8
Incept: 2009-03-30

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Fedwatcher: "It will take many election cycles of voting-out incumbents to Drain The Swamp."

Yeah, I would say not in our lifetimes (unless we literally have a "civil war"), and based on human greed for corruption, maybe not ever. Also, as you know, we have 535 Congressmen: 435 Reps elected every 2 years, and 100 Senators elected every 6 years. Elections to the Senate are staggered over even years so that only about 1/3 of the Senate is up for reelection during any election. We could "drain the swamp" through election but for argument's sake, say 50% of elections vote in a new swamp monster (sort of a "half life"). Trump is likely one himself - even if he was the better choice over Hillary. Anyway, I'm no math whiz but I would guess it could take 50 years to drain...and our republic may be unrecognizable by that time.
Smitty
Posts: 147
Incept: 2014-09-24

SW Ohio
Online
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Government prosecutors are simply too busy spinning the hamster-wheel of the War on *some* Drugs to bother with trivialities that threaten financial doom...such as the criminal enterprise heath care system.

Not all crimes are created equal...

some are more equal than others.


Certainly-if restoration of Rule of Law is desired by President-elect Trump-all USAs & DUSAs need given pink slips directly after noon festivities Jan. 20.

Hell, -they- themselves should be prosecuted for obstruction of justice...or something.

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There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

-Soren Kierkegaard
Tickerguy
Posts: 147632
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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It is NOT going to happen.

Do not believe in it... you might blow your own brains out when it doesn't happen.

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Winding it down.
Themortgagedude
Posts: 10110
Incept: 2007-12-17

saint louis
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Your cup is less than half full tonight. I say you need to fill it up with some ale.

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I think its time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that our founding fathers intended for us. Ronald Reagan 1964
Tickerguy
Posts: 147632
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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My cup is overflowing with realism. Those who do not drink of same had better lube up, because your ******* is about to be several sizes larger than it is now, and you also better lay in several cases of Depends as it's damn hard to keep your **** where it belongs when your butthole looks like something out of a gay porn movie after Mr. Hands' "best friend" gets done with it.

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Winding it down.
Ckaminski
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Mass-Hole!
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Karl, you have such a way with words.

Tickerguy
Posts: 147632
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Yeah well...

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Winding it down.
Themortgagedude
Posts: 10110
Incept: 2007-12-17

saint louis
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Oh dont worry Im ready to be disappointed. I'm nothing but a realist on this. But hope is a good thing. And I'm not ready to give up yet. Maybe after we've eliminated all other options we can do the right thing.

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I think its time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that our founding fathers intended for us. Ronald Reagan 1964
Analog
Posts: 1359
Incept: 2010-12-29

arkansas ozarks
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I too want bright light of day to sanitize the stinking mess

but all we get are tiny specks of starlight, like Weismann's statement.

Seems to me dawn is inevitable
even if my candle may not last the night.

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Never trust a computer with anything important.
Tickerguy
Posts: 147632
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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I've gotten to the point where I'm praying for flaming asteroids of death to strike a LOT of people.

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Winding it down.
Themortgagedude
Posts: 10110
Incept: 2007-12-17

saint louis
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I've got 2 cities in mind for those flaming asteroids. DC and Chicago. Bring them on.

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I think its time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that our founding fathers intended for us. Ronald Reagan 1964
Analog
Posts: 1359
Incept: 2010-12-29

arkansas ozarks
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O, for the power to hurl those fireballs.

It's a good thing i'm not Emperor.

Inline

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Never trust a computer with anything important.
Themortgagedude
Posts: 10110
Incept: 2007-12-17

saint louis
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I think its time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that our founding fathers intended for us. Ronald Reagan 1964
Fotos240
Posts: 4
Incept: 2009-01-13

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I hope Trump knocks the stuffing out of the Biotechs and Big Pharma in particular, but I really doubt hell do anything.

Anyone want to talk about what a RIP OFF those industries are, along with the medical monopoly in this country?

My daughter is on a new bipolar depression medication (after a nasty divorce between her troll mother and me). Thank the heavens I have really good insurance. It cost me $15 bucks with my insurance for a months supply of 30 pills. Take a look at the freaking retail price!!!

$1884.09 for THIRTY PILLS!
Inline
Tickerguy
Posts: 147632
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Sigh... who do you think is paying the rest of the money?

It is exactly this attitude that is why we are in the mess we are in

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Winding it down.

Azbob
Posts: 1295
Incept: 2007-07-27

Tx
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She just needs to get off those euphoric carbs but that's the problem with our society.
Riverrat10k
Posts: 109
Incept: 2009-10-23

On a rock in the river
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Ok, this is a real number follow up to my comment on this thread or the previous one about Patient First offering a "cash discount" for the uninsured or out of network.

I was required to go back to get my blood pressure meds refilled (yes,
TG, I know, I already lost 40 lbs since last Feb following your advice/data, 30 more to go.)

My bill: Charges after Insurance Adjustments (What Adj???)=$178.53
Your Payment: 30.00
Insurance Payments: 134.36
Balance Due for this Visit 14.60

Think the "adjustment" is down from $299 cash price listed as "max visit cost for most services.

Now, from PF's website:

Initial visit for routine medical problems 109.00

TG, I am not hopeful, but I WILL pursue this. The pricing differential is blatantly illegal under both Federal and VA consumer law for all other industries. Wonder how far a civil suit under VA law would go?

Why not $109 for everyone, minus my $30 copay, "insurance" pays $79, done deal.

Can't get "fair" pricing for government programs unless the medical/insurance scam is dismantled, as doctors just refuse to see Medicaid/Medicare patients and build a cushy relationship with an "insurer".

My God, we are so ****ed.



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A motion to adjourn and go fishing is always in order.
--me channeling Heinlein
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