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| Governor Scott: Do You Really Mean It? in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Bagbalm
Posts: 4258
Incept: 2009-03-19
Just North of Detroit
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Shall not be infringed is a highly complex statement that requires much study and might have meant shall not be allowed in a different era. After all people in such remote times barely had language and were still using grunts a lot. We are SO much more advanced now.
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Pika-steph
Posts: 54710
Incept: 2007-09-11
Live Free Or Die; US Army Est. 1775
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Heh. Wait 'til Riley reads this. He's gonna love it.
He just completed a college-level Constitution 101 course last week.
So, yesterday, what happens? He's outside with his little bow and arrow set (no, I don't mean a compound bow; I mean something he got from our Renaissance Faire last year). It's got real arrows with steel tips, but the force of trajectory is relatively minimal. It's hard pressed to actually stick into a target - think larger-scale, launched version of a game of darts or better yet, lawn darts with aiming.
Anyway, our neighbor, who is a city employee comes over and is all in a twitter. 'You can't have that! It's illegal.'
So, Riley being a polite child, just gathers up his bow and arrows and comes inside. Inside, while telling us what happened, he's a bit less than polite. 'Stupid, piece of crap government!' We told him we would look into finding out what exactly the law says. He said, 'I don't care, it's unconstitutional, whatever it says. It's ONE sentence!'
Riley's 9.
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Stop the Looting; Start Prosecuting - http://www.FedUpUSA.org/ "The only regulation that really works is failure."--Rick Santelli
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Peterm99
Posts: 4985
Incept: 2009-03-21
SoCal
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The nation has semantic contortionists who consider "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state . . ." to be the "meat" of the second amendment running things nowadays.
Unless and until politicians and judges who "think" that way are removed from (better yet, prevented from attaining) positions of authority, the 2nd Amendment, just like the 1st and 4th through the 10th, will be considered to be merely suggestions that are only required to be followed if convenient for the statists in power. Sadly, it seems that the majority of the voting population is OK with that - just one more illustration of the failure of the education system.
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". . . the Constitution has died, the economy welters in irreversible decline, we have perpetual war, all power lies in the hands of the executive, the police are supreme, and a surveillance beyond Orwell’s imaginings falls into place." - Fred Reed
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Ckaminski
Posts: 1578
Incept: 2011-04-08
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I take a pretty literal view of the constitution. The Founders were pretty educated, smart mother****ers. They knew what they were doing. For us to reinterpret their words is the height of hubris.
"Shall not be infringed" is not a ****ing suggestion.
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Salt
Posts: 192
Incept: 2010-05-28
NC
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If I have a Constitutional Right to legally arm myself why do I need State permission?
Boggles the mind. Really. Since you do have the Right, why do you even entertain the question? Just carry. You have the right to.
License is defined as permission by a competent authority to do that which would otherwise be illegal, a trespass or a tort.
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Atlasrocked
Posts: 363
Incept: 2009-03-23
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ckaminski is right 100%, as is Karl. Good post Karl. I am mailing in my CC form today, and I should not have to do this nor pay a fee of any sort.
When the gov't finally stops deficit spending, there will be an abrupt rise in mob store attacks at grocery stores. These are already happening sporadically around the nation. A group of well armed citizens is going to be critical to protecting the food supply of each neighborhood, IMHO.
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Mpilar
Posts: 5595
Incept: 2009-01-05
Nashville, TN
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Quote:Simply put: It is time for Constitutional Carry in Florida America! FIFY :)
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Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken
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Flyingillini
Posts: 87
Incept: 2009-06-09
Reno, NV
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Too many *******ned bed-wetting liberals. Its happening slowly in sane states.
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Marvinmartian
Posts: 750
Incept: 2011-03-16
Pasadena, CA
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The 2nd amendment, part of the bill of rights, applies to the United States of America. wikipedia wrote..However, by the latter half of the 20th century, nearly all of the rights in the Bill of Rights had been applied to the states, under what is known as the incorporation doctrine.[37] The Supreme Court has held that the amendment's Due Process Clause incorporates all of the substantive protections of the First, Second, Fourth, Fifth (except for its Grand Jury Clause) and Sixth Amendments and the Cruel and Unusual Punishment Clause of the Eighth Amendment.[38] While the Third Amendment has not been applied to the states by the Supreme Court, the Second Circuit ruled that it did apply to the states within that circuit's jurisdiction in Engblom v. Carey.[39] The Seventh Amendment has been held not to be applicable to the states. So, depending on who is sitting in the Supreme Court, Florida's 2nd amendment right may be removed by appropriate state action. |
Noodleman
Posts: 2391
Incept: 2008-11-01
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Everyone over 21 who is not a convicted felon or a certified nut and who has taken an approved firearms course should have the right to carry. They should be as prevalent as cell phones. No female should have to worry about being attacked when walking down a city street from a friend's house at 2am. I should be able to walk around East L.A. after midnight with my head held high. The pols don't like it because it puts control back into the hands of the commoner. The cops don't like it because it is honing in on their business. The liberals don't like it because it gives the commoner an advantage over the criminal. Uncivilized people don't like it because it forces them to be polite.
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"Ammunition beats persuasion when you are looking for freedom." Will Rogers, 4 Nov 1879 - 15 Aug 1935
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Morla
Posts: 815
Incept: 2009-11-09
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Yeah us modern humans don't need weapons in our new enlightened state, if bad guys show up just offer them some beads and patchouli oil. Jesus might approve but then again he was murdered.. We agnostics can't afford it.. Poor Socrates too, being the smartest guy in the room doesn't always pay. (edit)Just bought Leverage btw, my reading list is already way too long but I figured I'd help out. Bought your cow Karl, even though the milk is free here at the Ticker. (edit2) Perhaps it tastes better when you pay for it.. :) Creedence wrote..Take you a glass of water, Make it against the law, See how good the water tastes, When you can't have any at all.
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Fear of govt IS the government.. Statism is a pack of unbacked threats; If govt gets out of control, ignore it and go about life as you see fit. Where's your crown, King Nothing?
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Raftermanfmj
Posts: 3346
Incept: 2010-09-06
USA
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Quote:and who has taken an approved firearms course should have the right to carry Odd, I don't seem to recall anything about coursework in the constitution.
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I have never wished to cater to the crowd; for what I know they do not approve, and what they approve I do not know. - Epicurus
Oderint dum metuant - Caligula & Police State USA
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Noodleman
Posts: 2391
Incept: 2008-11-01
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Do you want somebody who's never handled a piece of hardware and doesn't know the first thing about it's safe operation to fire at a crook while you happen to be standing in the line of fire? I wouldn't.
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"Ammunition beats persuasion when you are looking for freedom." Will Rogers, 4 Nov 1879 - 15 Aug 1935
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Morla
Posts: 815
Incept: 2009-11-09
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Quote:Do you want somebody who's never handled a piece of hardware and doesn't know the first thing about it's safe operation to fire at a crook while you happen to be standing in the line of fire? I wouldn't. I'll take my chances with stupid, but good, people being armed rather than only the villains having guns. Besides most people who own a gun probably at least understand the very basics of how they work. Balance one against the other, try and have some perspective..
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Fear of govt IS the government.. Statism is a pack of unbacked threats; If govt gets out of control, ignore it and go about life as you see fit. Where's your crown, King Nothing?
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Mrbill
Posts: 7851
Incept: 2008-10-19
North Carolina
Online
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Before gun licensing courses, did I miss the part of history where we had hundreds of unlicensed gun owners randomly shooting people because they had no idea how to use a gun?
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Morla
Posts: 815
Incept: 2009-11-09
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Quote:did I miss the part of history where we had hundreds of unlicensed gun owners randomly shooting people because they had no idea how to use a gun? You did, luckily reality missed that too.
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Fear of govt IS the government.. Statism is a pack of unbacked threats; If govt gets out of control, ignore it and go about life as you see fit. Where's your crown, King Nothing?
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Nelstomlinson
Posts: 124
Incept: 2011-12-21
Juneau Alaska
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Noodleman, ``..shall not be infringed.'' means just that. If you want the constitution to say ``... the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, except to require NRA-approved training courses.'', start a movement to amend the second amendment.
Don't try to ignore the plain meaning of that one simple sentence, or you're just as wrong as the anti-gun politicians.
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Genesis
Posts: 130744
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Those who don't know how to use a firearm safely get exactly one unsafe display or use thereof before they do 10, 20 or 25-life in prison in Florida.
Felonious assault is enough to send you up the river; the weapon does not need to be fired.
This is a more-than-sufficient deterrent.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Ckaminski
Posts: 1578
Incept: 2011-04-08
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Before the nanny-state came and made them tools of the devil and evil incarnate, they were just inanimate tools used to feed or defend oneself.
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Uwe
Posts: 6449
Incept: 2009-01-03
19446
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Noodleman wrote..Everyone over 21 who is not a convicted felon or a certified nut and who has taken an approved firearms course should have the right to carry. Who "approves" the content of that course? How expensive is it? How difficult is it to pass this course? In the end, this is just another way to prevent people from carrying legally. Noodleman wrote..Do you want somebody who's never handled a piece of hardware and doesn't know the first thing about it's safe operation to fire at a crook while you happen to be standing in the line of fire? I wouldn't. If you fear this, you should never come to Pennsylvania. Here, anyone who is has reached the age of 21 and has a clean record can get a License To Carry Firearms, without taking any kind of course whatsoever. Of course, said License shouldn't be required in the first place. I simply offer this fact up as evidence that requiring people to take a "course" before allowing them to carry makes no difference whatsoever. Oh, and don't ever go to Vermont, Alaska, Arizona or Wyoming, because all of them have true Constitutional Carry now (at least for their own residents), and no courses are required. -Uwe-
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“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” - John Locke
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Pika-steph
Posts: 54710
Incept: 2007-09-11
Live Free Or Die; US Army Est. 1775
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Quote:Before gun licensing courses, did I miss the part of history where we had hundreds of unlicensed gun owners randomly shooting people because they had no idea how to use a gun? Aaaactually.....they use to teach it in public schools. Of course, barring that...there's always, you know, parental units to each kids proper firearms safety.  Point being, it's much preferable to teach all the basics early on and by the time they're mature enough (notice I didn't give an age) to carry a weapon, they're already an old hat.
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Stop the Looting; Start Prosecuting - http://www.FedUpUSA.org/"The only regulation that really works is failure."--Rick Santelli
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Uwe
Posts: 6449
Incept: 2009-01-03
19446
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Quote:Of course, barring that...there's always, you know, parental units to teach kids proper firearms safety. Yep. Since I recently got some new gear, on Saturday I asked my 19 year old son if he wanted to go to the range to help me break it in. I've taken him shooting before, and his answer was: "You bet!" When we got back, my 14 year old daughter asked me, "Hey Dad, when are you going to take me?" "Hmm, well, how about tomorrow?" So I dug my old Ruger 22/45 out of the safe, broke it down to check condition, and on Sunday, I sat down with her and covered the basic rules of gun safety, sight picture, and let her dry fire it a couple of times. Then off to the range we went. I shot the first magazine full to make sure the gun was working properly, then loaded another, and let her have at it. Every shot she fired hit within 6" of her point of aim, and most were better than that. I loaded a few more magazines for her, then showed her how to do it herself. She ended up firing about 170 rounds. The target in the picture below was her last 20, from about 8 yards. Those are .22 caliber holes and the 8-ring is 4" in diameter. In other words, every one of those 20 shots hit within 2" of the point of aim.  Not too shabby for a 14 year old girl's first trip to the range. I don't think I'd want her shooting at me!  I'm confident that by the time she's old enough to carry, an "approved firearms course" will be entirely superfluous. -Uwe-
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“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” - John Locke
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Pika-steph
Posts: 54710
Incept: 2007-09-11
Live Free Or Die; US Army Est. 1775
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Not surprising. Girls are just better.
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Stop the Looting; Start Prosecuting - http://www.FedUpUSA.org/"The only regulation that really works is failure."--Rick Santelli
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Traumaboyy
Posts: 201
Incept: 2011-05-20
Northwest Florida
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Great shootin UWE!! My dad...A Retired warden with FL DOC tried to shoot a small rattlesnake with a SHOTGUN, missed three times...lol...he hollered at my daughter who was in my yard to come shoot the snake....One shot with Ruger 10/22 in head!! She looked at him and said....Daddy always said you shoot like ****!!  100% agree Steph...parental units when available that want their kids to be responsible with weapons should lead by example!! Daughter loves to shoot!! |
