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| Loan Modifications: A JOKE in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Curbyourrisk
Posts: 3605
Incept: 2008-08-19
Farmingdale, NY
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I was told by my BAC mortgage guy...we were bought by them when they bought CFC, who bought our mortgage from our first broker. That since we owe more on the mortgage then the house now appraises for.....although I would challenge that....we could not refinance. The idiot I was dealing with sounded like a complete schmuck. This happened on Friday.
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Time is up.
I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no Santa Claus, the tooth fairy does not exist and American justice does not involve the courts.
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Digalert
Posts: 217
Incept: 2009-09-19
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Welcome to socal, capitol of the option-ARM, land of the $500k mortgage and home to the $57k average income.
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Drjerry
Posts: 591
Incept: 2007-11-06
Seattle
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There was a time when a Realtor would not even show you a house selling for more than 2 1/2 times your annual income.
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Ralf
Posts: 50
Incept: 2009-07-11
USA
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There's another good reason banks don't want to record losses on houses: credit default swaps tied to the mortgages on them.
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Risingcream
Posts: 4417
Incept: 2007-09-07
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So most suburban homes should be less than $300,000?
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Civilization...ancient and wicked. --Subotai
“The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success”
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Genesis
Posts: 131439
Incept: 2007-06-26
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3x household income is a MAXIMUM for reasonable affordability.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Vegasradar
Posts: 8720
Incept: 2007-07-11
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I have ZERO faith they will do the right thing therefore the pain will be worse than need be
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Be the change you want to see in the world. ~Mahatma Gandhi
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Reza30
Posts: 289
Incept: 2009-02-15
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Quote: What regulators and lawmakers need to understand is this: Prices will fall - one way or the other. We are only able to determine who bears the loss of making these unsound loans, not whether the losses are ultimately recognized. Unfortunately for us Karl, the productive tax payers will bear the "loss" until they are no more. We are experiencing a reverse sort of Darwinism here: the survival of the (un)fittest. Read for yourself... Quote: According to the US Debt Clock (http://www.usdebtclock.org), the current US population is 308 million. Of that total population, just over 35 percent (108.7 million) are taxpayers. The rest are those who pay no net tax, government employees, dependents and those who are unemployed and/or on welfare. These percentages would be similar in any nation with a mature welfare state.
If you subtract Americans under 18 from the almost 200 million Americans who do not pay tax, the US is in a situation where many more people vote for a living than work for one. This too is an inevitable end result of any mature welfare state. The fact remains that in the US, 108 million productive people are supporting almost 200 million drones. Those same 108 million people are paying the ever increasing interest bill on the so-called “public debt”. And finally, those same 108 million people are the only REAL source of the wherewithal to eventually repay the debt. At current levels of US federal government spending, it would take a cut of more than 50 percent just to balance it - especially after the servicing costs on the existing debt are taken into account. To actually BEGIN to pay the debt would take budget cuts even bigger than that. As long as more people vote for a living than work for one in the US, that simply is NOT going to happen. A productive minority CANNOT support a non productive majority. http://www.investmentrarities.com/best_o....
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J0nx
Posts: 3080
Incept: 2008-08-12
The trashcan of the nation
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Quote:3x household income is a MAXIMUM for reasonable affordability. Yeah I went that route gen and the neighborhood turned into a section 8/illegal alien cesspool that is down over 70% from peak. Buying an affordable home is full of pitfalls as well. I'm wishing now that I had bought a 400k home that I couldn't afford over the 200k one that I could...
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The fraud and lies are only allowed to continue because the people allow it. Either through apathy or ignorance, they still allow it.
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Steelhead23
Posts: 2073
Incept: 2008-09-09
Portland OR
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Gen, Your analysis is spot on, but there is more to this story. The program is not just to "pretend" (aka lie), it is also to "extend" and that is likely the reason for all this pretending. Please note: for those who are currently employed, this very nasty recession has been a nothingburger. Oh sure, they lost some of their 401k money, but they're still eating T-bones and drinking Glenn Livet. If taxes don't go nuts and they stay employed, they'll likely vote to "extend" the tenure of our current gaggle of politicos. Sadly, decision-making for U.S. politicos has gone from "how can I help my countrymen" to "how can I keep this cushy job." So, when the issue is: Do we take action to force debt deflation and accept a broad downgrading of debt instruments and possibly bankruptcies among large financial institutions, or, do we do all we can to kick this can down the road and let the next gaggle of politicos worry about it, the answer is simple. Kick the can. BTW - the cost of such decisions is born by local units of government which are often in the unenviable position of putting a tax lien on a property where the owners are either in foreclosure or bankrupt. The rest of us have to pay higher taxes to keep up basic services or do without. And it will get worse.
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"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" —Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild Benjamin Bernanke For-profit commercial banks are a menace and should be eradicated
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Risingcream
Posts: 4417
Incept: 2007-09-07
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Jonx, your affordable home is just as overpriced as the unaffordable homes.
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Civilization...ancient and wicked. --Subotai
“The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success”
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Imaboomerdropout
Posts: 305
Incept: 2009-09-13
NY
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Meredith Witney mentioned on CNBC this morning that the loan modification program was failing because they couldn't produce the documents. Was she talking about the original mortgage note? She mentioned about 2/3 of them.
If that's so then won't the banks have a hard time foreclosing also? Catch 22 maybe?
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Jjm
Posts: 187
Incept: 2009-11-10
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Steelhead, I have to agree with your take on the situation. Barring some six-sigma event, the present order will continue and we will muddle along from one bubble to the next. Stories about the Dow reaching all time highs in 2010 are circulating, and unlike earlier this year, I'm not convinced it can't happen. There is so much money sloshing about that TPTB can just spray it on any fires that pop up. Poof! instant fix and we all move on. The New Normal is here.
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"In a mania, all investments are at the mercy of the greater fool. As in: if you can’t find one, you’re it." -- Alex Daley
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Genesis
Posts: 131439
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Ima, no, the borrowers can't produce documentation of sufficient income.
That's because they didn't have sufficient income. They bought based on a lie, and if they provide current 1040s or W2s they're busted.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Deejunk
Posts: 715
Incept: 2008-10-11
Now DC - Solar Power.
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I bought a McMansion at less than one third (1/3) of my annual income and it did not turn into a cesspool because I immediately put up a big "For Rent" sign with a rent amount three times the going rent rate.
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0321_guy
Posts: 121
Incept: 2009-09-22
Former .Gov Exterminator
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""Meredith Witney mentioned on CNBC this morning that the loan modification program was failing because they couldn't produce the documents. Was she talking about the original mortgage note? She mentioned about 2/3 of them.
If that's so then won't the banks have a hard time foreclosing also? Catch 22 maybe?""
It is my understanding that once they separated the deed of trust and the promissory note in the securitization process the mortgage becomes null and void?
That is why so many people are keeping the homes when they sue the bank or are being foreclosed on. The bank can't produce the note.
The note and the mortgage go together. And once you separate them there's no more foreclosure. They sold them both separately. The note evidences the debt and the deed of trust authorizes foreclosure. So if somebody bought the deed of trust that authorizes foreclosure but they didn't buy the evidence of debt they have no evidence on which to foreclose. And the person that bought the evidence of debt that didn't get the deed of trust they only have a note to prosecute on. They can't foreclose.
This is how I understand this whole mess.
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It is easy to believe that something must be true because everyone believes it. But the truth often comes to light by daring to question the unquestionable, by doubting notions which are so commonly believed they are taken for granted. Is it possible what you think is real is just a public relations scheme?
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Imaboomerdropout
Posts: 305
Incept: 2009-09-13
NY
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Thanks Gen, saw that in another thread after I put my foot in my mouth again.  Guy, I read that the owner has to demand the note before going to court for that to work though. True? How many owners know that?
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Logastellus
Posts: 56
Incept: 2008-10-14
Atlanta
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Gen,
they will go with continued foreclosures for one simple reason. This strategy allows them to drag out the process far into the future. MEANWHILE, the banks continue to fatten up their reserves by screwing customers with higher fees. Therefore, they will be in a much better position to weather the storm this way, rather than taking one big huge hit all at once.
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Deejunk
Posts: 715
Incept: 2008-10-11
Now DC - Solar Power.
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0321 - Imagine - free houses that you own but also cannot sell except by tax sale... Just keep paying the RE taxes if you want to keep and don't if you want to sell. Also, you can bid on your own property.
Genesis: Maybe I missed or forgot about the discussion of how this works with title insurance companies... I would think if only part of the claims come up, wipe out!
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Jwm_in_sb
Posts: 1096
Incept: 2009-04-16
California Desert
Online
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"So most suburban homes should be less than $300,000?"
Yep...they sure as hell should. Welcome to reality Clownifornians. Real Estate is not a Religion anymore.
I remember mixing it up online in 2005 and 06 with idiots on Piggington board and even Mish about real estate in California. I moved here in fall 04 with my wife from Chicago (where I had a newish house that was purchased for 3 times my single income in a nice suburb called Darien). I could not fathom funding some SoCal Douchbag's retirement by overpaying their 30 year old stucco ****box. N-F-W......You can't believe the grief I caught for viewpoint.
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Jethrodull
Posts: 81
Incept: 2008-02-25
North Texas
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If they ever really do implement a " modification" program could it include a provision where if they reduce principal the lender gets a "call option" on any future apprciation in the home. Current homeowner gets to stay in the house with reduced cost of mortgage, current lender takes a kick in the shorts but has potential to recover some of the loss if the home appreciates?
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Otiswild
Posts: 5677
Incept: 2009-03-09
Inside you, the force is!
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Don't forget 100-120x rent as well, though in this environment rents are more liquid?
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Phdude
Posts: 98
Incept: 2009-05-26
NJ
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Otis: 120x rent?
Does that mean that your monthly rent * 120 must be less that your yearly income? (rent affordability---seems too high though)?
Or does it mean that the PRICE of a house should be monthly rent * 120?
I guess the latter makes more sense...
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Deejunk
Posts: 715
Incept: 2008-10-11
Now DC - Solar Power.
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I always wanted to rent, like forever and ever SO when a house came along that was 10x the size of my current apartment but cost only 2.5 years rent, I STILL hesitated. Buy later did buy. I recovered my investment in rent I did not have to pay after being there for 3 years.
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