Dr. Nebbeling usually did 12 injections ( one vial of glucose) at each visit. Focusing injections on the area that needed most help. I think cost was $135.00 per visit. Took 6 visits on each knee and then 4 on my ankle. By visit 3 I knew things were getting better and working. I had to spread out treatments on the knees ( could not do both knees per visit) by alternating knees on each visit.

Ortho docs only cut they do not rebuild and worn out joints do not need less cartilidge they need more.

HTH

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Do not count on entitlements of any sort. Whether you're retired or not, figure out how you'll make it without them. I'm completely serious about this, even though I know it's well outside of consensus. The simple fact of the matter is that the United States is more than $100 trillion in the hole when one looks at the discounted future value of entitlement promises. The money doesn't exist and can't be made to exist. These entitlements on a forward basis will not be paid. If you're 80, you'll probably not lose access to them during your remaining years. If you're 65, or worse in your 50s or younger, it's an entirely different matter.

.

This is one reason that I decided to start taking Social Security at age 62, rather than wait for full retirement age, because by age 65, there may not be any, or at least a lot less. However, Social Security can be fixed. Medicare as it currently stands is done. Put a fork in it, it's done. Plan on buying your own very expensive medical insurance if you can get it at all.

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and learning how to grow some of my own food because I feel like those skills will be useful/necessary in general.

I grew my first garden this year. I highly recommend getting as many grow seasons in before you "have to have" food. I've learned so many little things about growing plants (where to put them, watering schedules etc) that are specific to the property your growing on and the climate your in. Little details that aren't covered by books.

Bearb319, Thanks for mentioning that. I had never heard of it.

I will file it away for future reference because I am still improving with my diet and physical therapy routines. Nice to have another option. I also find the theory behind its efficacy attractive to me personally.

And from my vantage point, that it is not covered by insurance simply means it comes at an honest price.

Anecdotal- So I had been considering Vibram 5fingers for a while now. Several people at crossfit use them, as well as a few friends. I had seen people running in them. Well, after the this thread and the video put up as well as the recommendations. I took the plunge. Wow. I haven't run like that since my early teens. I had always run on the balls of my feet when I was younger (early 80s), and I was fast. People told me I was running "wrong" for not heel-striking. Well, I ran the prescribed 5 minutes today and the pain I usually feel in my meniscus was absent. Plus I noticed my stride lengthened dramatically all on its own. I was simply flying. I'll try and update in a few weeks as my feet, ankles and calves strengthen. I'll run longer and see if the speed sticks.
I can say that for me, without a doubt, they made a HUGE difference. Immediately. If you are on the fence and can afford the 80-100 bucks do it.

Spank- where did you pick them up from?

I walked the freakin dog barefoot for a mile tonight and I got blisters. I have baby skin feet from almost never being outside barefoot. But it does feel much better being barefoot.

Mike-

REI. I went for the KSO (keep stuff out) series with the mesh top. Basic sole, as I don't plan on hiking in them, so no need for the lug sole. Yeah, take it easy man, baby steps. Especially barefoot. These give a lot of protection, but I caught my big toe once while running this morning. F'ing OW!!! I'm fine, it just hurt. Good luck.

me too Spank
I went and got a pair the other day from REI
been breaking them in by wearing around the house for about 20 minutes or so

Yesterday I jogged a lap in them and noticed that my regular speed seemed a little slow- so I may be able to up my MPH

— I always run on the balls of my feet in VERY loose shoes

I also walk around barefoot/flip flops as much as possible but these shoes still take some breaking in
as I feel some pain in my shins from them- probably because they are stretching my toes out?

I just hope they don't give me an injury

Watch out trying to change over too fast to those things. I picked up a pair and like them immensely.... but they WILL (and do!) put the heat on your calves when you start using them!

My home is a barefoot (socks only) place to begin with to keep the wear and trash off the carpets; if you usually wear shoes all day it's probably going to be even worse. Vibram says "no more than five minutes to start" and pressing your luck is likely to lead to you having VERY tight calves the next morning as a consequence.

I'm normally a mid-foot striker in "regular" shoes; barefoot (or these things) promote a mid-to-forward strike, which is good from a form and injury perspective, but it also stresses the calf muscles in ways you were NOT using them if you were using conventional shoes!

I'm doing about 1/4 of my usual run in them and then switching; fortunately around the neighborhood I have a reasonable modification to my route that allows this without much trouble. I suspect I'll be running entirely in them within a few weeks, but don't rush unless you want to wake up feeling like you have bricks in your lower legs the next morning....

Stand on one leg with toes (or ball of your foot if you can't on your toes) on lower step somewhere you can hold for balance. SLOWLY do calf presses until you can't anymore. Be very sure to extend your heel below the step so you retain flexibility.

Switch legs. Repeat.

Switch legs. Repeat.

Switch legs. Repeat.

Switch legs. Stretch - no more exercise.

Switch legs. Stretch - no more exercise.

Do a minimum of 3x's a week.

You'll wake with cramps in your calves at night for weeks or months. Eventually they will stop and your calves will be incredible strong.

I used to do 300-500 per leg per set while reading at night. ~260 pounds, 6'1, could run a mile without sweat. I was the fat kid out there running track.

The idea is that your calf is a spring, you need to treat it as such. Your heel has no business hitting the ground when running.

Yep. Stick on a pair of those Vibrams and go for a run and you will use that spring. ANY heel-strike in those is instantly corrected by your body without any need to do so on purpose or pay attention to it at all.

Your body knows what to do when you run; all the "padded shoe" things do is trick the body into thinking you DIDN'T heel-strike when you really did. Of course when you stop doing that your calves need to start doing the job they're supposed to, and like any muscle they have to be worked to get stronger.

Yup. Never heard of the shoes before reading this thread, but I'm all for them just on that basis alone.

They're just protection from things like stones and objects that might otherwise go through your foot (to a point; they won't do **** for a nail, but then again nothing other than a safety sole will.) A ~3-4mm thick synthetic sole for your foot that maintains each toe's individual freedom of movement. Insanely damned expensive for what you get however.

I also like them as boat shoes; decent grip and can be flooded with salt water without being damaged, non-marking. That was my fallback - if I decided they sucked for running they'd be useful as boat shoes.

CRAP!
that ONE LAP I did in those shoes yesterday pulled my inner/ass hamstring! I thought i was having extra bad deferred cramp pain all night

—nope!
be careful guys & gals

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if I decided they sucked for running they'd be useful as boat shoes.

funny— that is what my husband said — they look like they'd be great boat shoes

I'm thinking they would be awesome for dive booties. Scrambling over the lava rock to do shore dives here can be a pain, especially since most dive booties don't have good traction on the bottom (damn moss/algae on slick lava is a pain when your encumbered with dive gear).

But also good for hiking as a lot of the valley trails require you to cross streams.

Probably wouldn't want to kick a winch or a cleat with those...

Mpil, true, but same with most other "boat shoes" that are water-friendly.

Docksiders are fine for what they are, but they really don't get along that well with salt water immersion.

As dive booties these would be interesting. I may try them in that service and see what I think. I have gone through SEVERAL sets of booties trying to find ones I like, and am VERY VERY VERY partial to ones I use now. Slipping with 100+ lbs of **** on your back is a VERY bad thing; I frequently if not usually dive with doubles and often cave-dive; shore entries are bad news too if you slip, especially if there is any sort of surf.

I can echo KD's comments RE: short initial runs. I did my 5 minutes yesterday, and while it felt great I could definitely feel the load on my ankles and calves. Calves are sore today, but notihng horrible. I've been working out for a bit so they are conditioned. Also, I exchanged the set I got for one size smaller. These should fit like a glove, don't size them like regular shoes. They will stretch a little bit. Gonna do my next crossfit class in them tonight, I'll report back.

They don't work so good for dive booties, for me at least, as my Mares fins rub the top of my foot where the 5 fingers don't have protection.

Ankle-high 5 fingers would be REALLY cool if they existed...Ankle support for these...nice.

I dive with Scubapro Jets with spring straps, and I suspect these won't work at all for that service for that reason, but I'll try 'em - on land at least ;-)

Nope.. no support on the tendon for the springs...

Funny how the 5 Fingers hijacked this thread...

Karl, et al.

Karl, there is one item that you didn't mention and I wish you had, Where and what instruments would you invest in to preseve capital over the next 12 months.

I started a new thread in the Traders Club Section, would appreciate members advice posted there for all to see ...

Thanks

I practiced bugging-out this weekend.

Nice truck!

I like the New Balance Minimus shoes, the are very close to the five fingers shoes. but, no toe slots, you can wear socks. Anyway, they get you running without a heal strike too. no padding to speak of, and I can definitely tell that the knee stress is much less!

Barefoot running technique is the way to go! i can feel my feet and calves getting stronger fast.
http://www.runningandrambling.com/2011/0....

Another great minimal shoe that would be great for the woods and hunting even.

http://www.runningandrambling.com/2009/0....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QnTAtlqan8I/TW....