Detailed market commentary at The Market Ticker and Ticker Classics
(The Year 2012 In Review)
Donations accepted; we offer GOLD ACCESS for enhanced privileges. T-Shirts, caps, coffee mugs? Click here.
BlogTalkRadio - Mondays at 3:30 Central - Yes, TickerGuy has a radio show (kinda)
RSS available You are not signed on; if you are a visitor please register for a free account!
|MarketTicker Forums Single Post Display (Show in context)||
User: Not logged on
|User Info||ROFL! Buy A Tesla Electric Car? No F*#ing Way; entered at 2012-02-27 02:27:34|
Genesis: Tesla already has Roadsters with packs over 4 years old and 100,00 miles with greater than 80% capacity remaining. The different between a Tesla and your consumer electronic devices is active battery management. Much of Tesla's IP is in how to take care of the cells that make of the battery to ensure long life and high performance. For instance, heat is very harmful to Li-Ion batteries but laptops, camcorders, etc have little means to keep the battery within it's optimum temperature range. Tesla will kick on the heater or A/C if necessary to keep the battery within spec. That is the problem w/ the current generation in that the car will manage its pack to death by using power to keep the temp within range until the battery is flat. Such is life w/ a first-gen product. As I noted in my first post they have addressed this in their next car which can be parked at 50% charge for 12 months without problems. And even after that it can place itself into a hibernation state for even longer. But yes, a 20% range reduction over 100k miles is nothing to sneeze at so before buying the car make sure you can still comfortably do your normal daily mileage with 20% less range. I never said EV's were for everyone. But since the average commute is something like 13 miles each way even with a 20% drop you could still do your commute in a Volt or Leaf.|
Next, as UWE pointed out, the cost of a normal pack replacement on a Tesla is $13k. This is because Tesla can reuse and recycle the old pack. The $40k figure was if the pack is toast. The reason that the cost is higher than the cost of a bunch of 18650 cells is that there is a lot of stuff that goes into the battery management systems and such that makes up a Tesla battery besides the cells themselves. Yes, I'm sure there's some profit in there as well but if a company doesn't turn a profit on their products that company will cease to exist before long.
Also, there's a flaw in your logic in viewing the pack as a consumable. A car with the same level of performance as the Roadster (something like a 911 Turbo) costs the same as the Tesla so there is no premium for buying an EV. That expensive battery pack is in lieu of an expensive engine, transmission, and all the other bits that make a modern ICE function that also wear out and need maintenance. As I said before you are saving more then enough money over fuel at today's prices to pay for battery pack replacements.
You also need to add in the costs to discover, drill, pump, transport, and refine the diesel that goes into your Jetta. And don't even talk about sucking on the government teat as the cost of oil in the US is HEAVILY subsidized by tax breaks for oil companies and refiners, the billions and billions spent by the US military to "protect" our oil supply, etc. I am in favor of removing ALL subsidies and then let the market decide.
Finally, if you're going to bring up the environmental costs of lithium mining we also have to talk about the environmental costs of tanker and drilling platform accidents, pipeline leaks, etc. Also, the lithium in batteries isn't destroyed - it can be recycled (this takes energy of course but the lithium isn't consumed like fuel in an ICE). And while it's called a "rare earth" element it isn't very rare. There are vast amounts of it spread around the world.
As I have said countless times I am not saying that EVs are for everyone. If you truly need to be able to drive 750 miles at one time then an EV is not for you (or if you only need to make such trips occasionally you could look at a plug-in hybrid like the Volt). Modern diesels are great. We have a diesel Jeep Liberty that we use for towing and ski trips and it's a great vehicle. But for the day-to-day driving I do an EV works and it's a heck of a lot of fun.