"Ask one of these drunks on the street why they are there, quite often it will be someone elses fault. It never occurs to them they started the wheels in motion."

The personal responsibility we've been discussing here recently. It always comes back to the person made a choice.

Took my morbidly obese, narcissistic, 16 pills-a-day mother on an errand today. As we are pulling into the parking lot and a woman whose body is similarly short & wide as my mother's walks by us and my mother says,
"She's fat. If I were that fat I wouldn't eat."

Absolutely, no awareness.

My husband and I went to a lake recently to enjoy the last bit of summer. An extremely obese woman was nearby wading in the water with her children. Then a grandfather wades into the water with a couple of grands. He has a big gut hanging over his pants.

My husband says to me "what do you think?" I said, "they're morbidly obese." Because the woman was so huge the grandfather "almost" seemed normal with his big gut. Men that age all seem the have the same physique.

He then says at least we don't look like that.

I turned to him and said, "I don't."

"You think I'm as big as that guy?"

"Yep."

After a few minutes he asked why people are so fat.

Because they eat too much! There are ways to handle that. Plus I think overeating has become a socially acceptable crutch/addiction. My mother isn't going to be a smoker or an alcoholic (she's too good for that!) but she can be an over eater and it's acceptable.

FWIW, hubs thinks his excess weight is due to stress.

Maybe.

It couldn't be the 6 cookies he eats after dinner or the Coke at lunch.

----------

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his desires depend upon his not understanding it.
~Upton Sinclair slightly paraphrased

One afternoon I saw a black girl crying near my street corner. Long story short, my wife and I brought them to our church, bought her and husband $400.00 of groceries and items, and got involved in their lives. Over time a pattern of edging right up to the edge of taking responsibility but then suddenly can't commit starts showing up. Arranged a job interview with my brother and guy never showed up.

The jig was up when the guy called me for a ride. Along the way he tells me, "I know that whenever I call, I can always depend on you to come through." No, those days are now over per this conversation. You've done outed yourself and confirmed my suspicions. Lesson learned.

So, when the welfare family a couple doors down moved in another pattern started. Whenever the guy saw me within literally the first 2 minutes I was listening to his financial grievances. He even once tells me he needs a new vehicle but can't finance without a co-signer. From his car after stopping me on the street while walking home. Later, his wife stops my wife while she's walking our dog and starts telling her how our neighbors are so good at helping them out with their needs. Not that we're not without compassion, but we've gotten pretty good at sniffing out grifters from the truly needy.

Here's an interesting article on panhandling in Chicago written in 1995. They interviewed several panhandlers.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-x....

----------

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his desires depend upon his not understanding it.
~Upton Sinclair slightly paraphrased

@Margbp - if he'd stop eating the fucking carbs (especially the cookies!) he'd probably not be hungry until about 11 in the morning.

Its easy to not overeat if you're not hungry.

----------

@Tickerguy

I know. Sigh.

My mom, too. Lots of carbs and refined oils in her diet.

Heart disease and obesity are rampant in our families and yet no one thinks they can do anything about it. Brother had bariatric surgery and now has a cascade of other problems that no one will suggest is related to the surgery. He even tells me to leave mom alone about her diet as she's too old now so it wouldn't matter. I don't say anything because she'd never listen anyway.

I'm the only one in the family that has lost a significant amount of weight. No one has ever asked my advice.

----------

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his desires depend upon his not understanding it.
~Upton Sinclair slightly paraphrased

The worst are the White trash meth heads. Always scheming up a grift with endless mental energy to avoid anything close to honest work or responsibility. Such a shame that it isn't more fatal like fentanyl; meth users can go on for decades. Of course by then they have about as many teeth a a jack-o-lantern and the intelligence to match.

Tg - It's more than money. I submit that Epstein's job was to get his clients into positions where bribery could be used. It ain't all about money. There's a much more nefarious side to political corruprion. It's about power and control. You think it's just dough, I know some of these assholes, and it's "not about the money".

I got a feeling that if the oppressed side takes it "hot", you will see a firestorm unlike anything in history. It will be biblical. Vlad the impaler will look like an alter boy.

I'm an old fucktard, beyond useless. I see entire bloodlines being eliminated. Civil, no. Opposite. Pent up greivances from displaced warriors due to black jesus. Maybe I'm wrong, and everyone gets their ticket punched. Everyone's a pussy. If there is a God, I hope he's on my side. I'ld like to think I'm right, maybe I'm not.

I was sitting at a stop light at an Interstate off ramp. There were a couple people with "Homeless vet. Please help. God bless" signs sitting with their dog at the bottom of the ramp. A pickup came down the ramp and the sitters threw their backpacks in the back end. A couple got out of the truck, grabbed their backpacks and the signs and walked over to the side of the ramp. My first thought was, "Shift change."

I keep thinking that a real news organization would be able to do a month's worth of stories just finding out what is really happening, but we don't have real new organizations anymore.

----------

Village Idiot

Thanks for bringing up the drunk scenario as it is both my yard stick for and the only use case for the technology. I buy my cars for enjoyment not practicality.
Unfortunately I had to obtain my current vehicle in August 2021 and there were no desirable manuals to be found. As I have returned to the labor force, in bumper to bumper traffic the advanced driver assistance shite is as useful as "AutoPilot".
Automatic emergency braking is something I fail to see how it can't be done reliably. Oh, I see Elon had to start using radar. Golly, he is the genius of our times.

I VERY MUCH will pay for actual "full self-driving."

Why?

Because eventually my acuity will fail me, and it would be very nice to still have PERSONAL mobility under my own control on a NATIONAL basis. As in "as long as I can afford the fuel I can go there" even if I cannot physically operate a motor vehicle safely.

That is what Musk has sold to people AND IT IS A FUCKING FRAUD.

----------

@ Tickerguy - @Margbp - if he'd stop eating the fucking carbs (especially the cookies!) he'd probably not be hungry until about 11 in the morning.

====

Breakfast as a meal is one of the biggest cons by marketers in the US. Look at any breakfast isle in any grocery store. It's like a card company creating a celebration day to sell their product.

With the state of the modern grocery store it is ridiculously easy to exceed 2k calories per day just starting with some sodas and chips alone... the staple breakfast of the modern age.

A: The Id does a full frontal assault on the ego.

I asked Chatgpt if it could piece together a cogent reply. This was the return:

=========

ChatGPT
Title: Society as the Unbridled Ego: A Metaphor for the Individual without the Superego

In the intricate tapestry of human psychology, Sigmund Freud's structural model proposes three fundamental components that shape an individual's personality: the id, the ego, and the superego. These elements work in tandem to maintain a delicate balance within the human psyche, reflecting the intricate dance of society's norms, values, and morality in the collective consciousness. However, imagine a society stripped of its moral compass, its superego eradicated, leaving only the primal id and the pragmatic ego. Such a society would serve as a striking metaphor for an individual devoid of their internal moral guide.

In this hypothetical world, society's superego has been expunged, akin to a person losing their moral and ethical foundation. The id, the primal and instinctual part of society, becomes the dominant force, seeking immediate gratification of desires without constraint. The ego, responsible for mediating between the id's impulses and the superego's moral judgments, must now navigate a perilous terrain, constantly striving to strike a balance between satisfying the id's relentless cravings and maintaining some semblance of order.

This society, bereft of moral standards and ethical boundaries, would bear a striking resemblance to an individual who has lost their superego, the internalized representation of societal values and norms. In both cases, chaos and discord would reign, and the consequences of unchecked impulses would be palpable.

Firstly, in a society without a superego, the id's primal urges would run rampant. Selfishness, hedonism, and the pursuit of pleasure at any cost would become the prevailing ethos. Similar to an individual devoid of moral guidance, this society would prioritize personal gratification above all else, potentially leading to widespread social unrest and discord. Without the superego's influence, concepts such as empathy, compassion, and altruism would wither away, leaving a void that the ego would struggle to fill.

Secondly, the ego, as the last bastion of rationality and pragmatism, would find itself in an unenviable position. Tasked with negotiating between the relentless id and the absent superego, it would be forced to make difficult decisions in a moral vacuum. This internal struggle would leave the ego in a perpetual state of tension and anxiety, mirroring the psychological turmoil of an individual who has lost their moral compass. The ego's attempts to maintain some semblance of order and balance would become increasingly futile as the unchecked id continues to exert its dominance.

In such a society, societal structures would crumble, and trust among individuals would erode. The absence of a superego's moral guidance would result in a loss of social cohesion, leading to conflicts, exploitation, and a general breakdown of interpersonal relationships. It is this disintegration of societal bonds that paints a vivid picture of an individual struggling to find meaning and purpose without their moral foundation.
In conclusion, when we contemplate a society without a superego, we glimpse the turmoil and chaos that may ensue in the life of an individual who has lost their moral compass. Society, as a metaphor for the individual, serves as a stark reminder of the importance of the superego, the internalized representation of societal values and ethics, in maintaining harmony and order in both our collective and personal lives. The absence of the superego unleashes the id's primal desires and leaves the ego in a perpetual struggle, ultimately resulting in a society or individual adrift in a sea of moral ambiguity and uncertainty.

===

Off topic? You decide.

I had a bleeding heart friend about 20 years back who volunteered with a local Christian ministry that provided a food bank, free clothing, free after-school daycare, and financial counseling (which [surprisingly] was a requirement to the get the free shit).

My friend had her eyes opened during the counseling sessions. She was astounded that the 'clients' had zero interest in learning how to budget or how to get out of their dependence on the government or charity. All they were interested in was getting whatever handouts they could for themselves and their "chil'ren". Her real jaw dropping moment was when she tried to explain to a client that all of the free shit they were getting was from the hard work and kindness of tax-paying productive citizens. The client responded -- 'Naw, dat's my money, I'm entitled to it, and they been keeping it from me'.

Over the past 60 years we have created multi-generations of people who spend their entire lives and energy seeking every avenue of sponging off of the production taxpayers. They have zero quilt about this pursuit because they have been taught that they are just getting what already belongs to them. Thanks a lot LBJ (as well as both parties ever since)!

I get very upset with people that drag their kids to the side of the street to beg with them. I get even more upset when people set their kids in a busy median to raise money for current sport. I don't give them any money because I refuse to reward them for putting their kids in a dangerous location.
I don't give money on the street. Ever. You can stare at me all you want while I am sitting at the red light. Not gonna happen. I do give money to certain organizations. But I am very picky.

A few years back I saw a raggedly dressed bum standing next to the main road where there was a turn off for the local Wally World. He would catch the people leaving the store at the light waiting to get back on the road and ask for money. I turned into the parking lot to get something inside and when I came out I saw him packing up his torn cardboard sign and ragged chair.

So, I watched him for a few minutes and saw him go to the back of the parking lot and get into a late model BMW. Yep, I watched as he took off his dirty ruffled overshirt and slip on a nice new looking jacket. At the time it made me wonder how much these "bums" really make.

----------

"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." --Samuel Adams

Tickerguy wrote..

They have to want to quit.

The amount of people I've seen 'quitting' smoking by slowly tapering down the amount of smokes (and then picking it up again after a week or two) is staggering. Either you quit or you don't, there is no 'I want to quit smoking', that's a fantasy of them someday not smoking.

As Mannfm mentioned, with severe alcoholics that may be a bit different with regards to DTs, but I'd venture the decision to quit and not to 'try to quit' stays the same. In my experience, anyone telling you they're trying to quit, isn't quitting.

@Treblec

Same goes for those who have dogs with them. It breaks my heart to see a dog with someone begging on a corner of a busy street, the dog simply gets startled and bad things can happen.

Children and pets need to be removed from situations such as that.

----------

Make building great again!

@margbp of course none of them have asked you how you lost weight. You see, they're all fat because of genetics. Nothing they can do about it at all. As long as they pretend your weight loss doesn't exist, they'll keep believing it.

----------

The learning curve for being dead is steep, but everyone gets it down pat on the first go usually.--Thystra, March 28, 2023

Quote:

So, I watched him for a few minutes and saw him go to the back of the parking lot and get into a late model BMW. Yep, I watched as he took off his dirty ruffled overshirt and slip on a nice new looking jacket. At the time it made me wonder how much these "bums" really make.

Back in the late 1980's our local paper did a covert observation of a 'bum' panhandling at 3rd and Division, the main exit off of I-90 into Spokane; Division is also US 395, and heads to Canada. Thousands of cars/trucks per day.

After a couple of days, the reporter identified themselves, offered to keep the 'bum' anonymous, and interviewed him with regards to his operation, his income, where he lived, what his daily and yearly routine was. He was pulling in a minimum of 30K/year, or today about 75K a year, minimum. Tax free. (During that same time period, I was making about 30K a year, paying taxes, med insurance, mortgage payment, the works).

Medical was urgent care, cash, or hospital, free.

Rent was paid to various dive hotels, under a hundred dollars a week, used four to six hotels in the region regularly. He had hot plates and microwaves; lunches he usually got for free (he set up at interchanges, always had fast food nearby). He had patterns of positioning that maximized income. 3rd and Division was (is) busy in the morning, the 'outbound' exits to the burbs are busy in the afternoons. He'd get in his nondescript car and move to different locations, change clothes and appearance to that people wouldn't recognize him easily.

Quite a system.

In the winter, he moved south, continued the operation, the back north in the summer.

He worked 5 days a week.
---

About ten years ago, I stopped at a local burger joint well known for their quality, back before prices went insane. Ordered a double bacon cheeseburger, fries, coke.

Walked outside and a 'street person' told me he was hungry. I offered to take him inside and order whatever he wanted.


He turned and walked away.


Fuck them all.

----------

Stop trying to sit at the tables that Jesus would flip over.

Billy Jack: When policemen break the law, then there isn't any law - just a fight for survival.

In the late Eighties while working as a photographer for the Oroville Mercury Register I interviewed a 'bum' who had a "will work for food" sign.

The guy was disheveled and had a sorry looking mutt dog with him.

I asked him how come he was begging?

It wasn't because he was poor, or an alcoholic or anything I expected. It was his job. He explained how he drove to different towns, set up at the entrance of a busy parking lot and sat waiting for people to give him cash. He said nobody ever wanted him to work, they would give him money and go on their way.

He had added the dog recently and he said the dog was good for another hundred a day.

He pointed to the newer car he drove and said he bought that since starting his new career.

He was amazed he could make a living and he was quite open about his scam. He couldn't believe how successful he was and I think the reason he was honest with me was because he wanted to brag about his work and how smart he was to figure his grift out.

He was selling karma. People gave to him so they could feel better about themselves.

He was selling emotional pet rocks.

The paper ran the story with the photo I made of him and his dog and many people were angry about being taken advantage of. The guy moved on to greener pastures after the newspaper story, probably a little smarter about being honest.

Maybe he began a franchise and this is why panhandling has skyrocketed?

The opposite of this story is the hitchhiker I picked up in California's Cental Valley (probably near Modesto if my foggy memory serves)

He was also disheveled and looking like he needed a shower. But he wasn't a begger.
He was a former contractor who told me he'd been making close to a million a year when his wife divorced him. After a year of her making more than him due to how the courts decided his paycheck was to be split he had enough and quit contracting.

Instead he spent his time traveling California's many waterways illegally panning for gold. He even showed me some of the nuggets from his recent adventures. He was an interesting fellow and he couldn't believe how wonderful his life was. He fished, panned gold and lived feral for a month or two then he'd come down from the mountains to sell his gold and spend time with his girlfriend.

If I had to trade places with one of these guys, I chose to be the gold panner.

----------

The problem is most people want to point a finger rather than their thumb when dealing with challenges.