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 The Root Of ALL Social and Political Evils
Mjeff87 3k posts, incept 2021-11-22
2023-09-06 12:46:12

I was sitting at a stoplight outside of a local convenience store I had just visited, and there was a guy sitting beside the road, obviously panhandling. He was very quiet, just sat there with a sign asking for any spare change anyone had. Who knows if he really was destitute or not, but he looked and played the part quite well. I just bought a 12 pack from the store, so I got his attention and handed him two cold cans of beer out my window. You would've thought I just gave him a million dollars. He smiled at me and politely thanked me and I went on my way. All I did was skip the middle part.

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Si Vis Pacem, para Bellum

You'll get less than you desire, but more than you deserve
Raven 15k posts, incept 2017-06-27
2023-09-06 12:46:31

The fact that this article must be posted on the "Cancelled" side of the Forum tells everything we need to know.

It is interesting to note that one of the things which made NYC so disgusting in the 70s-thru 90s homeless boom was that there was little to no enforcement of the laws against shitting in the street and every other public accommodation and even worse. The smell of urine is so embedded in the concrete structures, fittings and paving of the NYC Subway System that thousands of years from now anthropologists will incorrectly think that it was actually a public toilet. At least Chicago managed to keep some cleanliness.

The problem we have now is that the games of throwing money at the problems both personally and community are also paralleling the scams in the soon to be severe lack of money. This is why the homeless problem is finding other areas to soil for a variety of reasons.

Like NYC where people stopped caring about filth in many ways, the country overall is the same. And, in both places and eras it paralleled with the rule of law.

Part of breaking a society is crushing its morals and values and can be achieved through degradation of hygiene both personal and public. People are less likely to care about the law when they are surrounded by broken and filth, whether it be people or the community in general. For a while it seems fun, like in NYC where an anything goes kind of evolved in parallel with the filth. Alas, people knew during these times that they could go cleanup or aspire to better places after they had their fun or be so rich as to avoid the filth in respectable ages and roles. Not so much anymore as the tap has run dry and the problems are following everyone, everywhere.

In another thread i commented that there is a trap in that there are not enough prisons and institutions to address even vagrancy which should not have been permitted in Chicago as Karl describes. Problem is that the Left will resent resources being spent not on their preferred projects but for these people which they prefer to send elsewhere. NYC became very good at this in a not often spoken about formal program to dump the problem people elsewhere. Problem is that NYC only managed to Disney-fy a few small areas as it continued to lose more and more business even the much vaunted financial industry which has found better digs more and more over time. Let's see, surviving on foreign RE investors and a middle class selling overpriced residences to each other did not work out so well?

Everyone from the homeless drunk to the business maven or wanna-be stock market maven is waiting for the next scam to keep the wheel spinning.

Hate to break it to you, but the money is drying up. And, scams also need incentives for people to attempt them. The last incentive will be the lowest. Hope that you all enjoy the transients (migrants, van people, RVs on city streets movements) and homeless addicts. These are the last strip mining the last scam, abusing unwanted and not useful property.

You are here.

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Mission Complete

The truth is just too powerful to know. Those who hold the truth suffer more than those who believe the lie. -The Hall of Tears
Ingar 638 posts, incept 2017-02-14
2023-09-06 12:47:44

My brother and I were walking along M street in Washington,AC/DC years ago when we encountered 4 or 5 bums sitting on the sidewalk and panhandling. My brother gave one a couple of bucks. When we got out of earshot of the bums I asked him why he gave them money when he knew that they would buy drugs or alcohol. He was a reformed alcoholic and told me that the sooner they hit rock bottom, the sooner they would straighten up. He was doing his small part to help them get there. I think that they have to be in an intolerable personal hell to want to get out. Modern society enables them to tolerate their problems.
Greenacr 896 posts, incept 2016-03-15
2023-09-06 12:48:01

So I have to confess my sins when it comes to giving money to strangers.

I have a soft spot for Veterans and feel that the government has done a terrible job in taking care of them. When I come across a guy that says he's a veteran and in need of help I will quiz them on their military experience, rank, war, etc. If they pass or can BS me then I will give them $5, more if there are limbs missing. I regularly support DAV and can't walk away from these situations without donating. I also have come across a fair number of scammers claiming to be Vets and walk away.

Normally, if folks ask me for money for food/gas and they look somewhat legit then I will offer to buy a few gallons or take them to McDonalds. 90% decline only wanting cash.
Tappedout 300 posts, incept 2020-09-21
2023-09-06 12:48:29

For over 10 years now I've seen the WayMo vehicles on the road being tested. At first, there were two in the vehicle. One person behind the wheel, and one in the passenger seat with a laptop. Over time, the vehicles and sensors have changed.

About 6 or so years ago it was more common to see just one person behind the wheel.

About 2 years ago I saw the first one with no one in the vehicle.

I've seen more than once incident scene related to the testing. The funniest was when the car followed a white line of spilled paint off the road and into a fire hydrant.

Full self drive? Nowhere near ready for prime time.

The first place we should see them would be doing tasks like airport shuttle to the rental terminal. Same rout every time. More manageable set of variables. But have we seen it yet? Nope.

Your bum story reminded me of the last (And very last) time I was in San Francisco. As we were walking to dinner, someone was leaving a doggy bag by a sleeping bum. When we left dinner, we saw he made good use of it. He dumped the food on the ground and used the napkins to wipe his ass after shitting on the sidewalk.

Chemman 415 posts, incept 2021-05-03
2023-09-06 12:49:11

@Karl: "along with no liability for being intoxicated as you are not in control of said vehicle and, in fact, you're not even "intoxicated in public" because you are entirely enclosed within your private property."

In the early 2000's I was selected as a juror for a trial in which the defendant was being charged for a DUI. The facts were that a police officer noted the person exit a bar and stagger over and enter his vehicle. He then just sat in the car. When the officer arrested him he was sitting but the ignition key was still in his pocket.

Once the jury was selected we were released for lunch. When we returned to the court room we were dismissed. The defense had settled it once the the DUI charge was dropped. In my opinion the PA knew he couldn't sell the jury that sitting in your car drunk as a skunk wasn't a DUI. The defense did however accept a public intoxication charge which amounted to a meaningless fine.

I agree with you that just sitting in your vehicle no matter how soused you are shouldn't be considered public intoxication but at least the Jurisdiction I was in had a law on the books that it was.
Justme2c 63 posts, incept 2011-09-29
2023-09-06 12:49:26

People have been led to believe they can acquire power by acquiring money, not realizing that the game they (we) are allowed to play is not the same game at all.

The actual game played by "elites" is about power and control. Invisible strings behind the scenes.

Money is just how they keep score.

They are adept at feigning, but they do not actually care about you, or me. Our problems don't exist for them. Remember the old saying, "The rich really are different." Because quite literally, they don't think like you.

Another expression I grew up hearing, "How The Other Half Lives" - took me decades to find out it's actually the title of a book by Jacob Riis published in 1890. I finally read it, the universe put a paperback in my face a couple years back. Very enlightening to view NYC tenements and deliberate immigrant impoverishment through the eyes of Victorian gentility. Better hunt down a PDF, the book is so "wayciss" it will probably be banned soon.

Riis described a grimmer model of "hot-racking" than the one Karl did.

Upton Sinclair did too, in The Jungle.

It's an old game. Only the lipstick changes.

Reason: correcting the title of Sinclair's book
Throughput 149 posts, incept 2021-09-21
2023-09-06 12:49:34

A bit off-topic but this is H2-B related news from the telecom industry.
https://wirelessestimator.com/articles/2....
The article says only 6% of H2-B Visa requests are denied.
Tickerguy 198k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2023-09-06 12:56:41

@Tappedout -
Quote:
Full self drive? Nowhere near ready for prime time.

The first place we should see them would be doing tasks like airport shuttle to the rental terminal. Same rout every time. More manageable set of variables. But have we seen it yet? Nope.

30+ years ago people were talking about what amounted to a "shoe" on the driver side of a car and an express lane where the vehicles were telematically connected via same. The premise was that such a lane (presumably physically separated by K barriers or similar) could support radically higher speeds without accidents and your vehicle would basically join a "train" when it entered; you would select the exit point and the system would take it from there. That's viable and, other than outside interference (e.g. someone jumps the barriers) likely has very low risk. Since speeds could be much higher it also helps congestion.

It was never built; to be viable it has to support higher speeds otherwise its just more bullshit, which means only vehicles in acceptable condition can use it and that leads to its own set of problems. But technically that can and will work with even the technology of the day, say much less now. No problem. Its the interoperability and "must meet specs" issues that make it a thing that has never been built.

@Chemman this is the case in most if not all states. If the vehicle can be operated without you leaving your location and taking a significant action then you are in "control" of the vehicle and can be busted. This has been true for a long time; I learned of it in my much-younger years when a friend got a DUI in a parking lot this way without even starting the vehicle. From that point forward SOP for me was that the keys go into the bushes or otherwise where they're not on my person in the vehicle once I open the door. No keys (and of course you claim you don't know where they are -- you ARE drunk after all!), no capacity to operate and if they try the charge you with DUI anyway, provided you were not observed actually operating the vehicle in that state THAT you will beat in court.

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"Anyone wearing a mask will be presumed to be intending armed robbery and immediately shot in the face. Govern yourself accordingly."
Scott9mm 64 posts, incept 2021-08-08
2023-09-06 13:07:53

There is a VDH video about how the current leftist revolution infects all aspects of US society, not just politics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKEEawWc.....

Despite my concentration on the sciences (hated history), I know the French Revolution (or Mao's Cultural Revolution) was not a happy time. But I see no other destination for our current course. Our corrupt, gutless, and incompetent leaders are but a symptom. The root problem is a social rot that pervades most of American society, at least according to all we see from the media, Hollywood, and the education bureaucracy (not to mention politics).

I expect a time will come (and soon) when young men decide they want more and will take it by force. Such men will not be transsexual, gender fluid liberal snowflakes; but the exact opposite. One big question (in my mind) is where will the military and police weigh in? They possess the means for violence and are mainly composed of the same kind of young men behind the counter revolution. The other big question is what kind of "order" will emerge from the violence? When top leaders in our Government blatantly disregard their oath of office should we really expect better from foot soldiers? It would take great courage and character to restore a democratic Republic so my guess is fascism.
Metalqueen 401 posts, incept 2021-09-10
2023-09-06 13:58:41

@Tickerguy

This is just another way that the whole DUI laws have gotten completely fucked up over the last 40 years. If you are not actually driving how the fuck can you be said to be driving under the influence?smiley

MADD has been a cancer on society. They have always been about power and control not "safety" as they like to claim (sounds like the Covidians, does it not?)

Fuck them all with a rusty smiley

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Make smiley building great again!
Maudite 1k posts, incept 2009-01-21
2023-09-06 13:58:47

Short story related to me from a person I used to work with in a previous life. I thought it was an interesting way to handle the situation.

Said person was in the merchant marine prior to working in the field we met in.

Anyway he and a shipmate had pulled into San Pedro and were on shore leave wandering around seeing the sights such as they were. This was back in the 70's I believe.

They were hit on by a bum aka a "juice head" for money to eat. Not once but several times. He apparently couldn't remember who he had tried to scam for $$.

Finally the 2 merchant sailors got tired of brushing off the grifter and say "You don't want money to eat you just want something to buy booze."

Juicer: "Uhhh yep I guess so"

Shipmate: "I appreciate honesty so come with us"

They take him to a liquor store and buy him 4-5 gallons of the cheapest hi power wine they can find automatically elevating him to the status of a millionaire in his world.

He trundles off to the nearest park to party hardy with his new found score. Eventually some of his friends show up to help him spread the wealth, read get blind drunk. Now they set to cursing,fighting, throwing things, a regular mini riot. The San Pedro PD is called to bust heads and drag them in.

Later that day a San Pedro PD car pulls up to the 2 sailors and wants to know if they bought some bums some wine?.

Being truthful by nature. "Yes officer we gave one fellow money because he said he needed to eat."
They get read the riot act and told they would be run in and spend the rest of their time in jail if there is a repeat.

"Yes sir officer we wont give no one any money no matter what" smiley

Apparently in reducing the street population the grifters made a holy mess of the PD cars pissing and puking smiley all over the insides as well as fighting with the PD.

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It's been a bad year the next one will probably be worse.
Is there not one thing in your life that is worth losing everything for?
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Realist 267 posts, incept 2009-07-14
2023-09-06 15:10:38

Quote:
Essentially everything wrong with our society today comes down to the same point: Laws are meaningless unless enforced...



When you live in a society that doesn't enforce laws, you don't live in a ''country''. You live in a mob.


The corruption we are seeing in the U.S. is one of the reasons other empires and countries collapsed.

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''Whenever law ends, tyranny begins'' -- John Locke, English Philosopher
The United States is a banana republic
Survivors use critical thinking, common sense and intuition
Elkad 3k posts, incept 2009-09-04
2023-09-06 15:11:05

Guy in my Army unit got completely wasted in a bar while home on leave. Left with some girl.

Cops find his Camaro upside-down in a field. Driver door open, he's passed out hanging from the seatbelt in the passenger seat.

He got arrested for DUI.
Security cameras from the bar show her getting in the driver seat of his car.
Hospital report shows seatbelt bruising across his chest consistent with being in the passenger seat (right shoulder to left hip).
He got convicted anyway.
Unwashed 113 posts, incept 2023-06-23
2023-09-06 15:11:25

Grenacr said;
Quote:
I have a soft spot for Veterans and feel that the government has done a terrible job in taking care of them.


I'd have to agree, Vets got/get a raw deal and I will also go an extra step myself. In the late 80's I was working in Coney Island, Brooklyn NY when a guy approaches me and asked for some help, he was looking for his junkie brother he thought was there to buy drugs and stop him, to me he also looked like a junkie. I was going to tell him, get lost as he continued to tell his story of him being a medal of honor recipient from Vietnam, I said no way, you're shitting me, the guy looked terrible. He notice my, you're full of shit gestures and proceeded to show me his DD214 and sure enough there it was along with other medals. His thanks for his service was dying from cancer due to agent orange. He did present with a cancer pt appearance. I did what I could which wasn't much unfortunately.

On the other hand, down the beach in the brighten beach section was a homeless lady who lived on the street and roamed around daily with her shopping cart, of coarse with some begging involved. But on the 3rd of every month she went to the local bank to cash her SS check. Back then we still had a homeless problem but no where as bad as today. I read somewhere that panhandling was a lucrative business netting them ~30k a year, decent for late 80's. Well since reading and witnessing that I never give money to beggars/panhandlers.
78rpm 20 posts, incept 2023-08-07
2023-09-06 15:11:32

Karl Denninger for President
44dave 111 posts, incept 2021-09-16
2023-09-06 15:11:40

orangecrush wrote..
As far as I am concerned do-gooder bleeding hearts who give money to these bums (which I see happen regularly at intersections in my area) are doing nothing but enabling bad choices. You might as well hand them a bottle of Everclear, a 40oz malt liquor, or a baggie of heroin.


I keep reading these news stories about overdoses - and when you dig deeper, you find that the medics keep an "anti-overdose" drug with them so they can inject the druggies and save their lives.

I don't think they should do that. If someone overdoses, they deserve what happens to them. Injecting them with Narcan is just setting them up for another overdose tomorrow or next weekend. Let them OD and be done with it. When I read the stories about 18 people OD'd this weekend - I think, "Well, there go 18 druggies that will never do drugs again."

I don't feel bad at all when druggies OD. And of course, that makes ME the bad guy, not the druggies.
Jdough 268 posts, incept 2012-05-04
2023-09-06 15:47:03

FWIW I saw a bum drop trow and take a shit right on the side of New York Avenue in Washington DC in the late 90's. Also used to see it sometimes outside a McDonald's by my high school in the mid 90's. Maybe my area was "ahead of the curve" when it comes to non-enforcement. Our bums were pretty deranged and aggressive though too, so it could be that.

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America is a third world country with iPhones - Anonymous
Mannfm11 8k posts, incept 2009-02-28
2023-09-06 15:47:12

I hate to make an excuse for some of these people, but some of the alcoholics might die without a supply. DT's will kill a person quite often, even hospitalized. Reality rarely equates to fact for an alcoholic, that a drink puts them back on the street. They buy into the idea they can have a few and go on their way, like the good old days. I'm in my 32 year of recovery and from personal experience, the power of the idea you can do something and get away with it, ignoring risk and fact is strong. Early, I was stunned how many people die, even in upper middle class suburbia. Even though the person might be ethical in other areas, the idea of a drink falls into the category of a kid thinking he can steal a candy bar.

How to deal with these people is a big question. I would guess it is a big secret how many die every year, but most of them won't last long. In simple terms, they have lost their minds. They might know they have a drinking problem, but they can't connect the dots that drinking is a symptom of being crazy. In the drunks mind, the problem is amount, that they can stop after a couple or get drunk once, not realizing drunk means several days or in some cases, permanent. The drunk wants to be understood, when in fact they don't understand themselves. The damage of taking a drink, the loss of employment, spouse, family and life and shelter doesn't connect. Once they take a drink, those choices go out the window. I know this doesn't make sense to the average sane person, who can drink with impunity.

I have met drunks who won't stay in a shelter for the very reason Karl raises. the choise between braving the elements and not drinking after making an insane choice isn't easy. Neither is finishing a drunk, especially if the actual physical addiction has been advanced.

Think this is a minor problem? As many as 10% of the population are genetically predisposed to alcohlism. What you see on the street is often the end stage people. It is probably a bigger problem than cancer, being that it generally afflicts people in the prime of life, destroying families, careers, productivity and health. I haven't seen anything beyond the mental capacity to see the problem that can act as a solution. In short, the 12 steps are nothing more than a discovery of what one does in their lives that leads to trouble. It ends up to be simple math and the shit sandwich served is usually one you helped make yourself. How to eat it is a big secret to life. Passing the buck is the chosen solution of many, including people who have no addiction or drinking problems. Ask one of these drunks on the street why they are there, quite often it will be someone elses fault. It never occurs to them they started the wheels in motion.

The truth is I have given some of these people money, because of the awareness they might have to have another drink. Dry alcoholics have drinks offered them all the time. I can only hope they buy time to get another chance.

They have treatment centers. They work about as well as trying to screw in a reverse threaded bolt into a normally threaded hole. They do dry people out, which is necessary. You can't teach a crazy person much, because their minds can pivot on a dime. The AA program uses God, but the real thing is faith. Faith is accepting something despite argument. It is when you don't know. Abstinance has been the only long term cure for people who develop a craving once they take a drink. Faith equals I'm going to be back on the street, unemployed, panhandling, if I drink. The drunks mind goes to maybe a hangover tomorrow, like it used to be.

What you see on the street is the tip of the iceberg. Next to alcohol are the pill addicts. They are even crazier than the alcoholics, as they have to create a scheme, from the start. Everyone can understand going to the bar and a budding alcoholic can get a supply at a low price. Not the pill head. They are justified because their dealer has Dr in front of his name. Once the scripts get difficult, they might turn to heroin.

Some of this is just economic. Look at California. A tent and a place to shower can be an attractive solution to fighting the monthly charge of rent or even making mortgage payments. The State there is hammering people, someting they want to take nationwide. Who has money to rent in the Bay Area? Who can even make sense of owning rental property there? SF has actually supported open drug use for decades. I had friend go out there once. The stories he told were shocking. They merely had street cleaners and the fire department wash it all away every morning. We are just seeing the end stage of creating a haven for such behavior. The weather is mild. It isn't Chicago or even Dallas.

Maybe Fentynol is the hidden means of exterminating these people?

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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Andrew 238 posts, incept 2014-09-24
2023-09-06 15:54:38

@Mjeff87 being an Ohio native, I am reading "Dreamland" by Sam Quinones currently, and it's wild.
If I can somehow check out that miniseries I will, I heard it's maddening.
Tickerguy 198k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2023-09-06 15:54:26

As you noted @Mannfm11 there is only one answer to addiction, and that is the person addicted deciding to stop -- and meaning it. STOP for real. How you get to that mental state varies, but it is the only actual answer. Short of that you're ruined eventually, although the amount of time it takes varies from person to person.

I've known several who are ded and there's another canard which is that those who do it have a "favorite" and but for that, they'll stop. No they won't; that's bullshit and I'm very sure of it because I've seen it. They may have a favorite but they'll switch under supply pressure. Interrupting supply temporarily works for things like heroin since if you move 200 miles away your dealer is no longer there. But you'll find another one, and there is another one, and until you do you'll probably grab a bottle -- or a doobie -- or some pills -- or something, even if its bottle of cough syrup, if you're not actually prepared to quit.

The sad part is that you can't really do anything to make someone in that situation want to quit. They have to want to quit. And until they do, they won't. At some point if you're not them, but you like them, you have to choose becasue they often will try to drag you down the hole with them, and that sucks. Badly.

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"Anyone wearing a mask will be presumed to be intending armed robbery and immediately shot in the face. Govern yourself accordingly."
Chromehill 1k posts, incept 2010-03-03
2023-09-06 16:35:51

@Unwashed - About 30 years ago (early 90's), I had a co-worker who had a neighbor who was a professional panhandler. The guy lived in a normal house. Every day, he would put on stinky well worn clothes, wouldn't shave, etc to play the part. Made more money than my co-worker.


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'Power, like the reproductive muscle, longs to be exercised, often without judgement or right' - Gerry Spence

"Above all, while defending our own vital interests, nuclear powers
Tickerguy 198k posts, incept 2007-06-26
2023-09-06 16:36:04

I bet he didn't pay any taxes on it either smiley

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"Anyone wearing a mask will be presumed to be intending armed robbery and immediately shot in the face. Govern yourself accordingly."
Workerbee23 261 posts, incept 2021-09-15
2023-09-06 17:29:19

Funny story about the homeless: the kid lived in midtown Atlanta a couple of yrs ago. She lived in an apt in a converted house, 1 apt in the basement, next to the mechanical room, 2 upstairs on the main floor and 2 on the second story. Kid's appt was on the main floor, running front to back like a shotgun house. This is an older home so there were floor grates for heat and a/c.

One night she was in bed and heard a sneeze (it was pouring rain outside). She freaked out, didn't know where the sneeze had come from. Turns out a homeless man had taken shelter in the unlocked mechanical room located directly under her bedroom.

When she told the family, we all laughed, which pissed her off. We all asked, well what do you expect? You live 2 blocks down from (one of the many) drug/whore/homeless section of ATL!!

Welcome to your wake up call.

She used to give out bottles of water to the beggars at the interstate exits. The truly homeless would take them gladly (even if already opened and drunk from) as virtually all business wouldn't allow the homeless in to defile their property (trashing the bathrooms and water fountains). Eventually that stopped as the homeless were replaced by the grifters only looking for cash.

Even in the nicer burb where we lived you would see big SUV's cruising the parking lot of Walmart, usually a woman with a passel of kids looking for a handout. Didn't want a meal from the Mickie D's across the street just cash. Nope, sorry, I'm shopping at wallyworld vs Publix for a reason and supporting your family ain't it.
Onething@atime 138 posts, incept 2020-04-25
2023-09-06 17:29:38

I would say that, strictly speaking, genuine "laws" are self-enforcing. They do not require an enforcement agent. They simply operate.

What we call criminal and civil "laws" are merely policies. Policies that are sometimes enforced, sometimes not.

There are no "lawmakers" on Capitol Hill. Just policymakers.
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