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Evergreen
Posts: 101
Incept: 2021-12-26

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Franco,

Guessing here...

It was a Scott Adams periscope in which he was describing liberals/woke (whatever you want to call the nutcases running around and practically stroking out over Charlottesville, Trump, the concept of liberty, etc.) people who either hear or create a ringing sound in the ear. At least, that's the recollection. Whatever the exact origin, the inference is it's a sound so piercing that it blanks out everything. Or something to that effect.
Asimov
Posts: 135606
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee
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Reeeing...


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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Frieza
Posts: 178
Incept: 2019-03-09


Online
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Sonoran_monk wrote..
Imagine an onomatopoeia of impotent frustrated rage shrieked by a soy filled communist.
Why imagine?
Threedigit
Posts: 390
Incept: 2008-01-28
A True American Patriot!
16th and K, NW
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Apologies, I goofed when I quoted Raftermanfmj. The last part should read:

Raftermanfmj wrote..
A great many "what ifs" and most are unlikely to pan out. It may have worked in a racially homogonous America of 75 years ago (and did) but what you'd likely have is lower IQ and more r-selected racial cohorts increasing in number as they'd be getting pregnant and having more children.


I don't think the issue here is race, because all races and ethnicities respond to incentives and disincentives. That said, it could still be dysgenic. For example, a Black doctor is more likely to respond to incentives than a White with an 85 IQ and poor impulse control.

But it's not as dysgenic as it seems, because the people who respond to incentives are more likely to be the ones who can afford babies at some point in their adult lives.
Bountyhunter
Posts: 1614
Incept: 2007-12-05

Newport Beach, Ca
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What if certain states required the father be identified before any abortion was performed and had first right of refusal on snatching the kid with no mother involvement bet that really ****s with the my body my choice fems 😂

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Our world is run by the MOB, ie the Banking Cartel. The number one recipient of commercial banking donations. Barack Obama. Nuf said.
Its enough to convict OJ with an ALL black jury. LCruiser 1/29/09
Aspnaz
Posts: 59
Incept: 2021-06-22

Hong Kong
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Successful societies are built on solid foundations and the family unit has proven to be the only foundation that works. Look back over however many civilizations in the past and they all were successful and growing when they respected the family unit as the foundation.

Woke is part of the plan to destroy the family unit. Sexual liberation in the 60s was the the first blow, gay marriage, child transvestites, removal of responsibility from parents etc are all tactics aimed at destroying the family unit. The result will be the same as has happened to all previous civilisations: society will collapse and a new civilisation will emerge.

Woke does not have any track record of success. Woke is the destruction of all that humanity has learned in the past, it also idolises all that society has learned to reject in the past. Exactly why people have decided to destroy the family unit is probably as connected to the destruction of religion, the family unit and religion being complementary and both require discipline.

Religion and family requires people to apply self control to their urges, but the modern way of thinking is that we can have anything we want so self control is not relevant. But religion teaches you some pretty basic, proven rules, such as no sex before marriage, no murder, no stealing etc. But because this comes from religion, the simpleton woke folk reject these basics that have been proven to help society.

Woke and, more to the point, the money behind all these woke groups like Antifa, BLM etc, have decided to destroy modern society by attacking the family unit. It is a good strategy and it will work. It worked in ancient Greece and in Rome, so it should still work today. Soros will die before his dream is realised, but he will have done enough damage before he departs for hell.
Aspnaz
Posts: 59
Incept: 2021-06-22

Hong Kong
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@Tickerguy said

Quote:
That's ****ing dumb folks. Telling people they must "turn to God" in order to address a problem is telling people they have no agency and are neither responsible for themselves nor are we to hold politicians responsible for the incentive systems they generate and promote since we can just "turn to God" and it will all be ok.


I agree with your view on "turn to God" to fix everything, but religion is involved because a big part of the sexual revolution was the opening of doors that enabled people to disregard the teachings of religion and the society pressure to abide by those rules.

The common sense of the religious rules had been overcome by technology, the people were now in charge, not God. It did not take long for the rest of the religious rules to be disregarded, such as gay sex etc. despite the HIV scare. Sure, they had all been broken in the past, but the sexual revolution moved us past religion, we were now in charge. That was the start of the steady decline: throwing out all the wisdom of the past and replace it with technology.
Tickerguy
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@Aspnaz - Many of the "religious rules" were, objectively, technological limitations. For example how many Christians will happily eat ham or shellfish? Well, its forbidden. No? Bull**** and don't run that crap about the letters from an apostle in prison overruling what Jesus actually said -- that he was NOT overturning any of Mosaic Law -- either.

In a world with no refrigeration and nothing called a "thermometer" to assure proper cooking pork and shellfish were frequently dangerous to consume, particularly if not immediately consumed. Many other animal flesh sources had much less risk. Today the risk with shellfish and pork still exists, of course, but proper cooking and attention make both tolerable. In a land with neither refrigerators or thermometers the attrition rate from consuming either was quite elevated compared with not.

The moment you take a black sharpie marker to an alleged "Holy Book" you may as well admit that in fact it was written by man with all manner of distortion and influence, inspired or not.

Because it was.

Faith isn't a bad thing and certainly has its place. But tying strictures to deities is a fraught thing; you can easily wind up with women having Burkas forced on them under pain of execution (or rape) as anything else, so one should be rather careful about application to said "principles" when it comes to mandates.

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Civil Society requires 99%+ consent.
Stop consenting and it is forced to stop. Always.
No violence required.

Burya_rubenstein
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I'd have been happy if guys hadn't been told that they simply must persue sex or else they must be Fags.
Dbigkahunna
Posts: 232
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Giant Side of Texas
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Mann, as big ******* LBJ was he was a true convert for a socialist, democratic society. My opin
ion is he really believed government could make things better for poor people. His background was seeing government programs in the agricultural sector pull poor people up and he believed offering the poor the same opportunity would being them the same. And in some areas, it did. In Appalachia where my people came from, many took the handouts and did something with it. Trun, in many places they did not, but look at Raleigh and the surrounding area.
But these were few. Robert Byrd thought he could do it in West Virgina. What region is the poster child for Hillbilly Heroin? And a bunch of these are people of little color.
By the time LBJ was beyond wormfood, the Democrat party had glamond on the power of continuing these ideas and programs. And they attached themselves to one specific group. Seeing the advantage that came from embracing disadvantaged groups, this became their MO. And remains that till today. If you are part of the freakshow, the clown car will zoom up to get you in to take you to their Big Tent.
Clowns and Freaks is what the Democrat party has become. Not to say Republicans don't have their own clown car picking up freaks to take to their own circus.

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Blessed, Grateful and Living a Dream
Metalqueen
Posts: 85
Incept: 2021-09-10

Escapee from NoVa
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@Pete_brewster

My thoughts exactly.

I have no idea why some people would be celebrating the idea with forcing women to proceeding with pregnancies in the face of a full on ****storm [****storm] but there is no bottomless pit to stupidity no matter what the flavor.

Most of the what-ifs as this point are complete fantasy land.
Metalqueen
Posts: 85
Incept: 2021-09-10

Escapee from NoVa
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@Tickerguy

In regards to your point on religious rules and the history behind them smiley smiley smiley
Reformedhippy
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Rural, OK
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@Tickerguy

I second Metalqueen's admiration for your most recent post on this thread.

I know we have many self professed Scripturists that frequent your forum.

It has been on my mind quite a bit recently, that should a Christian profess to believe that Jesus was indeed the Jewish Messiah, would he not then also continue to be a practicing Jew?

And if not, would the whole of the Old Testament then be not the foundation of his Christian religion, but instead the letters collected by other men generations after the events described?

Sonoran_monk
Posts: 450
Incept: 2021-08-16

Between a saguaro and an arroyo.
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Certainly religious rules were the ones that tended to be the socially adaptive behaviors that sustained civilization. It was convenient to anchor it to "the will of God". Giving it an external authority creates a layer of abstraction and a sense of purpose outside of the people you deal with day to day.

Not all rules are suitable for all peoples. If you are in a situation that is an evolutionary mismatch then you are going to be in an uphill struggle.
Tickerguy
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@Sonoran_monk - Evolutionary facts don't give a crap about your preference or which way you point when and how you pray.

Further, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable to a present-day observer from magic and as a consequence it is impossible for any society to envision such advancement other than in the realm of fantasy. Some of that fantasy might some day turn into fact, but at the time it is always fantasy. That's just how it is.

Attributing someone getting food poisoning to a curse from above is an example of this. At the time nobody understood bacterial waste products, viruses and similar. If you ate something and got extremely sick or died it might be reasonable to attribute that, given the lack of such understanding or means of inquiry, to being smote by God, especially when you see a pattern of people who all ate the lobster and all got REALLY sick or dead -- but the other people, who killed and ate a calf at the same time, did not.

Of course today we know that undercooked pork can be dangerous and so can uncooked or undercooked shellfish -- and we know why too, and that the reason for such illness is not that God was "pissed" at someone who ate a forbidden thing. Vibrio anyone?

Is it reasonable for a person who observes this to think God cursed the people vomiting all over the place, ****ting themselves for a week and dying of dehydration as a result -- or simply from the toxicity itself? Sure, if you have no understanding of pathogens. You see repeatedly that it happens to people and make the association. But correlation is not causation, whether written in a book or otherwise.

How many more examples would you like?

Shall we put forward another, since I'm having fun today?

Oh, why not.

Let's posit that some identifiable element has double the risk of serious mental disorder compared with other people. I'll define "serious mental disorder" -- it screws the person afflicted seriously enough that they are unable to rationally process information and reach a defensible result.

If you force into a workplace representation by that element in ratable proportion to the population through threat of lawsuit or otherwise you now force employers, effectively, to hire people who have negative value to the enterprise.

Not every enterprise, mind -- some may not be impacted by whatever that particular disorder is. But in all that are that's what you've done.

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Civil Society requires 99%+ consent.
Stop consenting and it is forced to stop. Always.
No violence required.

Sonoran_monk
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Incept: 2021-08-16

Between a saguaro and an arroyo.
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Yes, I don't disagree with you. These 'rules' particularly the dietary ones were worked backwards since the science understanding wasn't there, 'God' got the credit or blame however you'd like to look at it.

Just as you can't legislate morality effectively you can't ignore the realities of economics for long without consequences.
Eleua
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N 47.72/ W 122.55
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@Reformedhippy

Quote:
that should a Christian profess to believe that Jesus was indeed the Jewish Messiah, would he not then also continue to be a practicing Jew?

And if not, would the whole of the Old Testament then be not the foundation of his Christian religion, but instead the letters collected by other men generations after the events described?


I'll take a stab at this.

Practicing Jew...what is that? Is that someone who self-identifies as a Jew, someone that keeps the OT Jewish laws for religious reasons, someone that adopts the modernistic Jewish belief and the Talmudic practices?

From the Christian's POV, they see themselves as largely non-ethnically Jewish, but the heirs of the blessings of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, per the Parable of the Tenants, among others in the NT scriptures. They hold to the belief that the OT laws and customs were not eliminated, but fulfilled (big difference), and are thus non-binding from a condemnatory POV. Therefore, they do not see themselves as Jewish, but heirs of the blessing that they believe God revealed through the Jewish nation. Jesus lived under the OT law, and it was His life, and death that fulfilled it. IOW, things changed at 3pm on April 3, 33AD. (best guess for the date)

The central tenant of the Christian faith was that the Levitical sacrifice tradition of recorded Hebrew faith was, once and for all, fulfilled and replaced by Jesus' own death, and any attempt to rekindle the temple/Levitical sacrifice ceremonies is an active diminishment of what Jesus did, and therefore is sacreligious.

Jesus spoke of the "old covenant" and the "new covenant." This is what He was discussing. Christians believe that the entirety of the OT was nothing more than a setup for Jesus. Jesus Himself was saying that the scriptures pointed to Him, not someone else. That's why the Jews of the day wanted to stone Him.

Additionally, Christians do not accept that anything the people calling themselves Jews do is part of God's new plan. They believe the Talmudic traditions are heretical, although in recent times (past 100 years, which represents only 5% of Christianity, and is a minority position even today), some Christians start to confuse/conflate the modern state of Israel, along with people calling themselves Jews, and their new faith traditions to be somewhat on par with the NT church beliefs. We can get into what is behind this, but various heresies have come and gone. The NT writings of the various Apostles had to deal with the Gnostic heresy, which is why some of the writings seem bewildering to modern Christians.

IN MY OPINION (and it is an opinion), modern Judaism is wholly anti-Christian and bears little to no doctrinal relationship to that which Jesus fulfilled. The "Dispensationalism" heresy we have had for a little over 100 years (purposely) confuses/conflates modern Jewish practice with Biblical practice, and goes against what Jesus said on The Cross - IT IS FINISHED. Dispensationalist Christians (think Pastor Hagee, Hal Lindsey, and a crap-ton of American churches) have a bizarre, disjointed belief that God is still working His blessing through the Jewish people.

Christianity has two formal commandments, which embody the commands God wished to preserve from the OT law -

1). Love God with all you have
2). Love your neighbor as yourself.

There are some minor commands from the Apostles, which serve much of the same purpose as the OT laws, and that was pretty much for the structure of the new Church, and how the practitioners would set themselves apart from both Jews and non-Jews.

Most Christians would believe the OT was a setup for Jesus' ministry and sacrifice, the Gospels recorded that ministry and sacrifice, and the Epistles explained it in terms of the "New Covenant" and how the Old Covenant was fulfilled.

As with any biological population, belief distributions are not binary but over a range. YMMV, but I don't think what I wrote above would stray too far from anyone who understands what Christianity is. There are significant stylistic differences, but the core doctrines are shared.

If you took a Roman Catholic, Evangelical Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox and put them in a room and told them to discuss the nature of God, and Jesus' advent and crucifixion, AND EACH STUCK TO THEIR BOOK, you would have three people that were in agreement. Ask them about the role and authority of their church, and you would get a smiley.

Add in a Mormon, or Jehovah's Witness, or many others, and you will quickly find the nature of God to be in dispute, and at that point, nothing else matters.

This is supposed to be a representation of what most Christians believe for the purposes of clarity, and isnt necessarily any call for you to believe it. I find it quite common to misrepresent what Christians believe to more easily condemn it. Many on the far-Right want to see Christianity as nothing more than the global distribution of quasi-modern Judaism. IMHO, nothing can be further from the truth. Both the Bible and the Talmud make it quite clear that Jews and Christians separated 2000 years ago and are at odds with one another, with no reconciliation between the two positions possible.

Therefore, Christians do not believe they are practicing Jews, but the heirs of the blessing God revealed/brought about through the Hebrew nation.

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Diversity + proximity = WAR
We are governed by sexual degenerates, Satanists, traitors, retards, cowards, sociopaths, and megalomaniacs - CHANGE MY MIND
That kind of sums up the last month since the election, a giant amber alert for Trump's balls. - Davkj1
Reformedhippy
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Thank you @Eleua, I mostly expected a thorough, reasoned, and sourced reply from you and you did not disappoint, as usual! There are many facets and nuances that I do not understand based on very elementary exposure in my formative years. I will take the content of your post with me on further exploration.
Tickerguy
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There's plenty to debate with @Eleua's read of this; one of the amusements is, of course, that the "Good Book" itself was written and edited by men. Now "inspired word of God" perhaps, but direct word of God, no -- and that we know with certainty.

As for the view that Jesus' death released the entirety of Mosaic Law from Christians, well, that's an interpretation but one that I suspect is rather far afield from most Christians. That Christ's death and resurrection reduced the entirety of Christianity and its requirements to two commands as Eleua states is a bit interesting, given that this in turn means that the proclamations against gay sex (for example) are void, extra-marital sex is perfectly fine (except when violating another man or woman's oath, as in the case of adultery), the "cleaves to his or her spouse" goes up in smoke since that predates Jesus' death and thus now divorce and remarriage is ok provided its by mutual assent or for cause and on and on and on. Indeed essentially the entire premise of sin as a discrete event is gone too if measured against the 10 Commandments, since they are no longer in force. After all if Leviticus and Deuteronomy is no longer of meaning in terms of stricture neither is Exodus.

This goes into the weeds fast if one accepts that "fulfilment" of Mosaic law means that as a Christian you tear the Torah out of the Bible and light it on fire, leaving you only with Jesus' teachings and, by way of example but not command since the apostles are clearly men and no more than a modern Priest in terms of stature as regards the letters and Acts. They're sermons when you get down to brass tacks, assuming you accord "ordination" in whatever sect is in question to be membership in the "Priesthood", as was clearly true for the apostles and the charge delivered at Pentecost.

I don't think you'll find many Christian sects of today that, if you were to present a view that the entire Old Testament was to be ripped out and set on fire as Christ fulfilled it, they'd agree that's correct. Certainly the Catholics don't and neither do the Protestant denominations I have a reasonable degree of familiarity with, nor do the Evangelicals I'm familiar with.

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Civil Society requires 99%+ consent.
Stop consenting and it is forced to stop. Always.
No violence required.
Reformedhippy
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Yes @Tickerguy, that was the direction in which my subsequent thoughts have been brewing.
Why would Christians study and include the OT at all then?
If we are preserving roots why wouldn't precursors to Judaism then also not be included in the scriptures?

Faith and rational argument are difficult bedfellows as one can almost always be used to bludgeon the other.
Cultural norms tend to form a compromise, or at least endeavor.

When I was a child my mother explained the difference between Jews and Christians as this:
Christians believed that Jesus the Messiah had come and Jews did not.
(They did not diverge until that point as OT being proof of the shared roots)

Local evangelical stations air preachers who discuss their belief in the second coming while Jews are still waiting for the first.
If a Messiah comes now, whether it is the first time or second time, whether it is Jesus or another form,
are the Jews and Christians both not equally fulfilled in His coming? Or will they fight over to whom this one belongs?

I find it an interesting enough topic to explore by various means, including perhaps seeking the opinions of a Hasidic and/or Orthodox Rabbi.
If Jesus had been their Mesiah, what would being a Jew look like today?

Add: Mea Culpa if I've derailed your NAD thread too far,
I'd be happy to take this over to the bar unless you favor the public debate.

Tickerguy
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It's ok here.... it's way, way off-topic but I have no risk of Google getting pissed off, and it does in a significant way intersect with the topic, so I'm ok with it.

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Civil Society requires 99%+ consent.
Stop consenting and it is forced to stop. Always.
No violence required.
Jamesthe1st
Posts: 2
Incept: 2022-05-05

Texas
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The Old Testament only makes sense by Catholic truth. Everything in the Old Testament is foreshadowing of what God was going to do by becoming the man Jesus. The religion of the Jews in the Old Testament is true, but incomplete because God had not fully revealed Himself yet, He only spoke to the Jews in gradual scattered ways as it says in Hebrews. Now every man has sinned, and has inherited the original sin of Adam and Eve and so none are justified in the eyes of God. God sent His Son Jesus to redeem mankind and cleanse of our sin through receiving His grace through the sacraments of the Holy Catholic Church.
The ritual prescriptions in the Old Testament foreshadow the sacraments, they are acts that signify that God's people are set apart from those outside and that God's justice requires acts of penance and restitution from us for our sins. Of course since was before the coming of Christ, these actions had no power to justify man, rather they served to prepare the Jews for the coming of Christ. This is why the Catholics don't keep many of the old ritual and ceremonial prescriptions.
However some of the law of Moses touches on aspects of the natural law and the divine law of God, or in other words morality. Morality because it is based on the natural order God has made does not change. That is why the moral commandments of the Old Testament still apply while the ritual and ceremonial things do not.
Tickerguy
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smiley

I see your sharpie marker in action.....

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Civil Society requires 99%+ consent.
Stop consenting and it is forced to stop. Always.
No violence required.

Proverbs16.33
Posts: 98
Incept: 2021-10-22

WNC Foothills
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When this upcoming post was mentioned in a previous thread, I admit that this is not at all what I was envisioning. I was thinking it would be focusing more on the states' rights issue. But I must say that this is a fantastic sociological exposition on some very relevant and widespread issues...which are further entangled in many more of our current issues and social ills as well.
I will stay out of the religious side of it other than to defer to the many great Christian Apologists (apologist from the Latin apologia, which means "defense") out there who are much smarter than I am and who have great explanations for all sorts of questions being raised here.
Krzelune
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Psalm 82:1

God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment.

gods?

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Ancient Nerdian Saying. "There is no Cloud, there is only someone else's computer" h/t LQ
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