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2021-02-08 18:03 by Karl Denninger
in Flash , 255 references Ignore this thread
Lock THE CITY MANAGEMENT Up
[Comments enabled]

The stupid, it BURNS.

Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri said someone remotely accessed a computer system that controls the City of Oldsmar’s water treatment facility on Friday.

The unidentified person increased the amount of sodium hydroxide being distributed into the city’s drinking water to a “dangerous” level, Gualtieri said at a press conference.

Someone "remotely accessed" a computer system that should have no physical way to be accessed from anywhere other than sitting in front of it in the building and did that.

Which means some city employee put the entire town at risk of some ******* being able to do this.

For which said city employee should be locked up right now.

How many times have I warned about this sort of thing?

******n it you're dumb.

Oh, I know, it's "more convenient" to not have to drive into the plant; you can work it all at the house!  What a fantastic idea!  Nothing could ever go wrong doing something lik.....

smiley

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Onelegged
Posts: 620
Incept: 2009-11-13

NW Colorado
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Genesis has warned about this so many times (in detail) that if you looked at his DNA strand under a scanning electron microscope set for "Cloud" you would see on the monitor the message "Told ya so, bitches!!!".

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The light at the end of this tunnel is a train. It's gathering speed. It's also delivering your special box car. Showers are on the right...
Mightymosin
Posts: 21
Incept: 2020-04-01

California
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Kind of funny, but long ago when I saw the movie War Games as a kid, I wondered why they weren't running on private copper and avoid the whole situation. Granted I was solely thinking about security as things were presented in the movie without really knowing anything about it in real terms.

Convenience. Good stuff.
Jack_crabb
Posts: 10551
Incept: 2010-06-25

Peoples' Republik of Maryland
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For the life of me I do not understand the fascination with the cloud since there is essentially zero security.

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Molon Labe
Where is Henry Bowman when you need him?
How many are willing to pledge this? We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor
Franco
Posts: 143
Incept: 2009-10-06

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I have visited several water treatment plants and the lack of security was concerning. Im talking about physical security. It appears that cyber-security is on the same level.
Tickerguy
Posts: 171483
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Waste treatment @Franco is somewhat of a less-serious issue, in that while you can cause some real hell with the local waterways that's one removed from supply.

Supply-side is a whole different game. **** with things there and people can easily die.

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I don't give a flying **** if you're offended.
Ckaminski
Posts: 5961
Incept: 2011-04-08

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Not for the folks downstream, maybe...
Tickerguy
Posts: 171483
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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True that although that sort of **** happens due to ****ups rather frequently... or if you live near Mexico where they just don't care.

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I don't give a flying **** if you're offended.

Crossthread
Posts: 8449
Incept: 2007-09-04

Surf City/Sloop point, NC
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wait UNTIL it happens to the Grid...

Fun times..

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Quote:
I've no more ****s to Give, because, It was a republic if you could keep it at all, We lost, RIP #Merica

HOLD MY BEER! [beer]
Where's Kyle Rittenhouse when U need Him?
Tickerguy
Posts: 171483
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Yep...

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I don't give a flying **** if you're offended.
Crossthread
Posts: 8449
Incept: 2007-09-04

Surf City/Sloop point, NC
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It's going to be so f-ing Funny.. (I asked about this)those 4G & 5 G smart meters suddenly going "off-line" due to a hack, or some sort..

Especially during a very COLD Spell or heat wave..
could prove more interesting than shooting transformers..

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Quote:
I've no more ****s to Give, because, It was a republic if you could keep it at all, We lost, RIP #Merica

HOLD MY BEER! [beer]
Where's Kyle Rittenhouse when U need Him?
Tickerguy
Posts: 171483
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Well at least those can be turned back on easily....

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I don't give a flying **** if you're offended.
Crossthread
Posts: 8449
Incept: 2007-09-04

Surf City/Sloop point, NC
Online
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Got a Generator? & fireplace? is all I can opine with.. ;)

i have both,,, thing is,, fighting ALL the other people..
that might NOT be in My favor..

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Quote:
I've no more ****s to Give, because, It was a republic if you could keep it at all, We lost, RIP #Merica

HOLD MY BEER! [beer]
Where's Kyle Rittenhouse when U need Him?

Frat
Posts: 4836
Incept: 2009-07-15

NKY
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"But... but... but... Our IT folks wouldn't be able to update software remotely if we take it off the internet!"

Uh... yeah. Feature, not a bug, *******s.

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We're ****ed. Where's Henry Bowman Kyle Rittenhouse when you need him?
Debtfree2200
Posts: 70
Incept: 2015-10-29

Anywhere besides the Wuhan Wet market
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Sewer systems are over run fairly often due to large influxes of water like hurricanes or extended rain events. Closes beaches and fisheries for a bit until it's tested safe from fecal coli-forms.
Wifi
Posts: 5443
Incept: 2013-02-13

The Land That Was
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Just remember, you only pay for the first one, the rest are free.

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"Freedom cannot end where fear begins."
Robby Dinero
Olddad
Posts: 71
Incept: 2019-08-22

Inman
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I have city water at the moment, but my go-to location has gravity fed spring water that's fed our family since the 1940's. I just hope they don't kill us before I get there! This makes me want to dig a well and put some folks in it (just not sure which ones yet).
Tsherry
Posts: 5044
Incept: 2008-12-09

Spokane WA
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I'm imagining what weaponized autists could do in a situation like this, where they are given the challenge to find and **** with every municipal utility system they can, through identification of open security; analysis of the systems within; most destructive series of commands that would disable the facility or cause extreme havoc; and then catalog all of that information.

On the designated day not far in the future, they open the catalog and execute.

Imagine that day....
Thomasblair
Posts: 133
Incept: 2009-04-03

NC
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Imagine if said ******* had disabled alarms and shut off the chlorine feed? Imagine if he really knew what he was doing and overrode speed limit parameters and ramped the VFDs to 200% on all the pumps for a couple hours, burning up all the motors, or maybe emptying out the clearwell and letting the clearwater pumps run dry for an hour. Plant I worked as was small-ish - about 15MGD - and our 4 clearwater pumps had 700hp motors. Those things aren't just sitting on the shelf somewhere.

I worked graveyard at the local potable water plant during college in the mid-aughts. 1a-7a shift plus a 2nd shift once/twice a week. Great job - I sat in the control room monitoring turbidity, pH, Cl levels; had to backwash a set of filters every night; made rounds collecting and doing bench tests every 4 hours. The rest of the time, I sat at the table in front of the data recorders (weekly spiral charts) doing homework for my mech eng degree.

It was an old system, built in the 70's, and we still used pots to trim NaOH, FeCl3, and NaFl injection pump speeds. We manually started and stopped raw water and clearwater pumps to keep system storage and the clearwell levels in check. We backwashed with a 40?-step checklist standing at a panel with valve control switches. We used Secchi disks to manually confirm turbidity tests at the flocculators and clarifiers. Everything by hand except chlorine injection. Awesome job. Couple years after I graduated the plant got a new RO system and controls got an overhaul to a fully-automated SCADA. I hope it's not on the cloud.

I shudder to think how many municipal water systems have put their control systems on other people's computers. Idiots, all.
Sancho
Posts: 75
Incept: 2013-12-06

Way, way south of Rio Grande
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Yes... but in case of heavy snow that does not allow you to get to the plant you can control it from home. And as a manager I can get an immediate notification on my mail if there is an important alarm....and look mom, I can have my daily KPI dashboard with gauges on my cell phone and review it from the beach...and I can select clear or dark themes too!!

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Face a bear robbed of her cubs,
but never a fool in his folly!
Proverbs 17:12
Whitehat
Posts: 4216
Incept: 2017-06-27

Elsewhere
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on a contract for a closed system monitoring and operations software install for which i am still under a confidentiality agreement i got buy-in from my clients that the system would not be open to any outside network or dial-in capability by hard physical disconnect.

The software folks did not like that all service packs and upgrades were by in person physical media load. They told me that if there was something wrong with the software that they needed the ability to update it easily.

The software people were informed that this was a closed system that operated under specific parameters monitoring variables within a certain range with known failure models and fully charted protocols for every conceivable situation. The presentation of some unanticipated failure or variable had a design safe-harbor shutdown and alert available to the system.

In other words, the ****ers needed to make sure that the code did only specific things without coding errors.

We told them that if they could not get it right the first time, there was nothing wrong with the code but with them.

Except to add functionality or better interface good code does not need to be updated.

Want to guess how many software vendors were interviewed to finally find the one that could do it. Let's just say ... many.

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smiley Gonna be a wild ride.
smiley Nuclear war is survivable.

Ameri-morons will finally learn when that one last stupid mistake unleashes consequences of compounding the previous mistakes into an epic, salient lesson. http://www.amerika.org/politics/arete-th....
Olddad
Posts: 71
Incept: 2019-08-22

Inman
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Thomasblair really knows his **** (pun intended, of course)!
Pete_brewster
Posts: 108
Incept: 2015-12-10

Canada
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"Its unclear where the hack came from or why Oldsmar was targeted, the sheriff said."

My guess? Someone who knew how to poison the city water supply if he wanted to was fired for being white and pissing off the wrong diversity hire.

This is what comes of making enemies of half the US population---and considerably more than half of the population that actually knows how to do anything other than complain.
Olddad
Posts: 71
Incept: 2019-08-22

Inman
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When my wife and I moved from the "big" city to the country our new house had a well. My (city born and bred) wife asked me what our water bill would be. When I told her we wouldn't have a water bill because the water came from a hole in the ground she didn't believe me. Yes, I told her, we needed electricity to get the water out of the hole but she couldn't believe the water itself was free. As I said in an earlier post, when I was growing up on the family land we paid neither for water, delivery or disposal; the water is spring fed into a reservoir up the hill from the house and exits to septic tank. To that end, converse to my wife's experience, I was 18 before I learned that water isn't free to everyone everywhere.

Per the rule of three's water is second only to shelter. Yet, most Americans don't give it's availability a second thought. Given our diverse backgrounds and a collectively chronic case of normalcy bias perhaps we should.
Ronniemcghee
Posts: 105
Incept: 2012-07-28

Miramar Beach
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Seeing how sodium hydroxide is corrosive to most metals ~ ingesting too high level of it results in a very bad day.

A case for the FBI?

Nah... It'll be fine.
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