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2020-10-04 14:52 by Karl Denninger
in States , 334 references Ignore this thread
DESTROY Michigan's Government - And The Rest
[Comments enabled]

Sorry, this is how it is folks.

Attorney General Dana Nessel will no longer enforce Gov. Gretchen Whitmer's executive orders after the Michigan Supreme Court ruled Friday that one of the laws underpinning the orders was unconstitutional. 

As I pointed out in my Commission Testimony you can see at http://tnouster.us the point of "Executive Orders" is exigence.

A government executive cannot issue orders carrying a penalty beyond the point of exigence.  Any penalty.  Law, ordinance, etc -- nope.  That power is held by the legislature.  If it's a county, then it's a County Commission.  If it's a City, it's the City Council.  If it's a State, then it's the Legislature.  Ditto for the Federal government.

County and City legislatures are usually unicameral; that is, they have one body and in some states there is an executive who must concur or veto (and potentially be overridden.)  State and the Federal legislatures are bicameral; a "House" and a "Senate" with an Executive who must concur or veto (and potentially be overridden.)

Exigence evaporates quickly.  The exception and capacity for such orders exists because a tornado, attack of some sort, biological disaster such as an epidemic, etc may occur without warning.  In fact emergencies, by their nature, frequently occur without warning.  The Executive has the power to issue temporary constraints for that reason; you have to have enough time to call into session the Legislature which then considers the situation, debates and votes.  But said "exigence" only exists for the amount of time necessary to do that under the circumstances in question.

Nowhere in America do we have a King or Queen.  Any such attempt is void and the person attempting it has committed sedition.

Any Sheriff or other Law Enforcement "agent" enforcing same beyond the point of exigence is a felonious thug assaulting you with a deadly weapon.  LEOs who act outside their authority are not law enforcement agents, just as a cop who peddles Heroin on the corner and sticks people up is a not a cop when they do that, they're a drug dealer or armed robber.

Law enforcement is an action, not a person.

Beyond 30 days there is simply no excuse in any state or locale for not convening the legislative body and taking up said debate and voting.  If you cannot get consensus the order expires.  A refusal to act by a legislature, no matter the reason, is a valid legislative act.  That's why we have legislatures.  We are well past the point where every legislative body from the City Council in a town on up has had plenty of time to convene and consider the issue.  Their failure to do so is not due to exigence -- it is due to a valid, lawful choice.

MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD ANY CLAIM OF "EXIGENCE" IS A SEDITIOUS CONSPIRACY, A FRAUD, AND TO THE EXTENT THAT IT CARRIES THE THREAT OF PENALTY FELONIOUS ASSAULT OR EVEN ARMED ROBBERY AND/OR A THREAT TO KIDNAP BY FORCE OF ARMS.

Consider this -- The President can nuke an adversary unilaterally.  However, he cannot declare war.  Only Congress can do that.  He can respond immediately, in the gravest extreme, without the consent of Congress because time may not permit Congress to authorize the action.  But that power is not unlimited.  He cannot spend money not appropriated by Congress whether under an emergency declaration or not.  Yet these Governors and Mayors have asserted unitary authority -- which, I will point out, is directly unconstitutional not only at the state but at the Federal level, which guarantees all states and political subdivisions a republican form of government.

No action by a unitary executive meets that Constitutional requirement beyond the limit of exigence.

Witmer has now opened up the State to unlimited 5th Amendment "taking" liability for every bit of harm done to any person or business beyond the first 30 days of Covid19.  The entirety of the state government and its finances must be destroyed.  If you live in Michigan and are pissed off about this take it out on your Governor who unlawfully, and knowingly-so, acted as Queen.  Trying to play "Red Queen" might have been a bad idea, eh?

Tennessee, you hear me?  Mayor Larry DeBlasio in Sevier County do you hear me?

The Tennessee Legislature was called into special session a couple of months ago.  They considered and passed a liability waiver for any business that had someone try to sue them over alleged Covid19 exposure issues.  It has some exceptions, but is reasonably air-tight.  Fine.  They could have, at the same time, taken up an extension of the emergency powers, including the mask orders and authority to close or restrict businesses.  They did not, and their failure to do so was voluntary; they had every opportunity to do and didn't.

They're not alone.  In fact I haven't found a single state where the legislature passed a law related to said events.  Nor a county or city government.  There is not one such order that is valid anywhere in the country right now, and there hasn't been for months.

Drag these executives out of office by their hair.  They've committed open sedition -- a direct and intentional overthrow of governments in the United States by force of arms.

The people have every right to drag any executive -- city, county or state -- out of office by their hair six+ months down the road.  Their "orders" are facially unconstitutional as they are nothing more than a declaration of KINGHOOD, which does not exist in the United States.

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Lemonaid
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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved." Ludwig von Mises
Peterm99
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Exigence, yep! Excellent analysis/conclusion.

Using reason, logic, and common sense, you have hit the nail on the head once again. It is unfortunate that neither the judiciary, LE agencies, the political classes (at any level), or what passes itself off as the media and/or punditry seem to be familiar with any of those - and, sadly, most certainly not the overwhelming population of the country.

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". . . the Constitution has died, the economy welters in irreversible decline, we have perpetual war, all power lies in the hands of the executive, the police are supreme, and a surveillance beyond Orwells imaginings falls into place." - Fred Reed
Raftermanfmj
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Question: What, if any, rights to sue or for redress does an individual have against these thugs? I live under the foul dominion of Wolf and wonder what damages I have?

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Uwe
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Pennsylvania too. The legislature passed tried twice to revoke King Wolf's "emergency" powers, first with a bill, and again with a resolution. Both passed, and both were veto'd by the King. In the latter case, the Governor's consent shouldn't have been required, but the State Supreme Court ruled along party lines that it was.

Hopefully we learn something from this and laws or even amendments to State Constitutions explicitly limiting emergency powers to a short term (30 days seems reasonable) will be passed. Yet somehow I doubt it. In Pennsylvania there are still people begging the King to shut the State down again.

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"Corona Virus will come and go, but government will NEVER forget how easy it was to take control of everyone's life; to control every sporting event, classroom, restaurant table, church pew, and even whether you are allowed to leave your house.
M1919a2
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Flag pole upon which to

HOIST the

BLACK FLAG!
Jwm_in_sb
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Has either wolf or Whitmer bothered to issue a public response to both rulings?
Bagbalm
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Just North of Detroit
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Jwn_in_sb - She indicated she has other undefined powers she will invoke to force the same actions without needing emergency powers. But she has not detailed those any more than she has the mantra of science she claims back her actions.
Rickylc
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Lansing Michigan
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Whitmer says she has other ways to deal with those who will not obey! But didn't expound on what they might be.
Lemonaid
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Boxcars and gas chambers.

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"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved." Ludwig von Mises
Supernumb
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FWIW re: "In fact I haven't found a single state where the legislature passed a law related to said events. Nor a county or city government."

Just to keep the record straight, some towns/cities in NH are passing mask bs in the legal manner (at least).

https://www.concordmonitor.com/Concord-N....

https://www.wmur.com/article/new-hampshi....

Quik49
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Team **** you has methods too...keep pushing them

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Tickerguy
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Well @Supernumb if they're doing it through legislative process then at least it meets that requirement. It's still crap but there is no promise that a representative government will act wisely.

However, we do not have Queens and Kings, so any such E/O beyond exigence is IMHO cause for some very bad things to happen, and the government has exactly no room to complain if it does.

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Expat_tom
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If anything the local government is the most correct place for these measures to be decided.

We've had many States where the State Government Executive such as Florida and South Carolina where they have tried to limit the ability of the local municipality from making their own decisions. It is frankly just as bad as what liberal governors are doing, just in a different way.

I might disagree with these decisions made by some of the local governments, however I disagree with the larger government coming in and trying to micromanage the local government even more.

If it is wrong for the Feds to come in and override the will of the people in a State, then it stands to reason that it is also wrong for the state Governor or even legislature to override the will of the local municipality.

Conservatism has said for years that the closer you get to the People, the more local, the better the governance, yet they are willing to throw their own dogma out the window when it disagrees with their own political bias.
Redjack
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Iowa
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Local mayor decreed (her word) that masks must be worn any time you are within 6 feet of someone. Including inside private homes.

Cops took one look at that and said "No thank you!"

So the mayor is publicly saying they should defund the police. All of a sudden the cops salute and start busting heads over the decree.

We had a myth. A myth where people in uniform would respond to ethics and ideals, rather than their own interest.
Tickerguy
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@Expat_Tom -- There is exactly one way to pass a legitimate law in a Constitutional Republic. It must go through the legislative body.

It does not matter whether the political subdivision in question is a city, a county or a state. The reason we have the organizational structures we have in cities, counties and states is because the Constitution of the United States requires it. It is blatantly unconstitutional for a city to have a mayor and no legislative body. Such an alleged "government" does not in fact exist as its chain of authority is void.

The exigence exception is there because emergencies are real and occur without sufficient warning for the legislature to convene and consider the matter. But that is time limited by definition, and it is a very short time. There is no realistic circumstance in the modern era where a month is not the outside boundary. Even in the time of horses a month was more than sufficient to cross a single state from wherever you were to wherever the legislature was to be convened. Today that time is measured in hours, even in the most-exigent of circumstances. There is literally no state in the Union where one cannot traverse its boundaries within a calendar day using ordinary civilian means under any foreseeable circumstance. Even in the event of nuclear attack we are talking an extra day or so to go around destroyed or irradiated areas.

If the legislature declines to pass a bill then that is their decision. "If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice", to cite the words of Rush (the band, not Limbaugh.) To decline to act is a legitimate democratic decision.

Any individual attempting to act as a King or Queen is no longer a member of the government. They are no different than the head of a criminal gang. There is utterly no reason on God's Green Earth to treat them, or any of the minions who do their bidding, any differently.

There is no shade of gray here. The Constitution is clear; the people of the nation are guaranteed a Republican Form of Government. A state that does not comply with same is in fact a state "government" that is void as it is in open and notorious revolt against the United States and the people therein and every member of same is subject to being dragged out office by their hair using whatever force is necessary to do so.

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Karlinmichigan
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We acquiesce to rule by tyrants.

TG says

"A government executive cannot issue orders carrying a penalty beyond the point of exigence. Any penalty. Law, ordinance, etc -- nope. That power is held by the legislature. If it's a county, then it's a County Commission. If it's a City, it's the City Council. If it's a State, then it's the Legislature. Ditto for the Federal government."

Michigan County Health Departments beg to differ! Immediately after the Michigan Supreme Court ruling last Friday, the health departments of the 2nd (Oakland) and 7th (Ingham includes city of Lansing) largest counties on Saturday imposed very restrictive mask mandates (as well as other restrictive measures) on the citizens of, and visitors to, those counties. Other counties run by statists and populated by their subjects are likely soon to follow.

From
https://www.crainsdetroit.com/coronaviru....

"Oakland County -- "the order from county health officer Leigh-Anne Stafford came hours after Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey told Crain's and other news organizations that the Republican majority in the Senate would not support a new statewide mask mandate in statute."

Note the wording ...the "ORDER" from county health officer Leigh Ann...

So this unelected, otherwise unemployable scold deigns to give me orders? I don't think so. If a business owner wants to kick me out, they'll have to be the proactive one and tell me to leave -- which I will, of course. They'll be within their rights. But I'll never return and tell them so, "buh bye".

Steelpiston71
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Michigan
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Not that it matters, but it's spelled whitmer.

We prefer Stretched Gretchen.

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"We have resolution authority under Frank/Dodd... How about we USE IT?" Karl Denninger, 10/07/10 on the Dylan Ratigan Show, MSNBC.
Jwjw
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Rocky Mountains
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In May, Michigan's attorney general blamed Legislature for not extending the Governor-ordered mandates.
https://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-359-92297_92299-528092--,00.html

AG Dana Nessel was wrong. It could be appropriate for people in Michigan to each bar grieve the AG. While no cost to bar grieve, the likely result will only be making it difficult for Nessel to get malpractice insurance after leaving the AG position. Malpractice insurance is typically needed in private practice.

Start the bar grieve for maybe purposefully ignoring constitutional separation of powers: http://www.agcmi.org/

Probably should read the attorney rules of professional conduct to include specific items in the bar grieve. https://courts.michigan.gov/Courts/Michi....

You may need Dana Nessel's bar registration number. Reg #: P51346

If you haven't bar grieved attorneys before, it is a no-fee way to learn a little about how they are "regulated".
Toddmeister
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I prefer to call her wHitler, Steelpiston71.

YMMV
Jwjw
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Rocky Mountains
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Am wondering if any of the AJ crew @Jeepguy know the federal case number. I want to look it up on Pacer.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/p....
Wifi
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Seagrove Beach
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Well,well, well....

Michigan AG will no longer enforce governors executive orders after court ruling.
Quote:
LANSING, MI -- Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel will no longer enforce the governors executive orders by criminal prosecution, though she urges residents to continue following COVID-19 safety guidelines.

The announcement from Nessels office comes after the Michigan Supreme Court decision on Friday, Oct. 2, ruled the governor does not have authority to extend emergency orders under two emergency acts -- the Emergency Management Act from 1976 and the Emergency Powers of the Governor Act from 1945.

https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/202....

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Tickerguy
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The counties that try it now (and several have announced they are and will) are asking to wind up with a bankrupt county. These are now slam-dunk cases in the courts.

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I don't give a flying **** if you're offended.
Xqqme
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Ohio
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You have to take DeWine first before you head to the State up North! We call her 'Big Nurse' aka Nurse Ratched.
Tickerguy
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The financial implications both on a county and personal level for people who ignore a state Supreme Court decision or try to go around it could be quite severe.

Specifically, "Qualified Immunity" and "Agency Immunity" (you can only sue the government, not the person) only extends to actions within the remit of the agency or person. Once a court decision that is binding in your district (say much less a State Supreme Court ruling!) has issued any action contrary to that decision is outside of your remit. This exposes you to potential personal liability.

I've had government people try to ignore a court order on me before and I had very good counsel with me at the time. They got a quick lesson from said counsel in how purdy their house would be with my name on the title and that not only would we be back in court at 0800 for a criminal contempt citation we'd be filing said civil action, and no, we wouldn't drop either once we filed them irrespective of what they did later -- they immediately complied.

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I don't give a flying **** if you're offended.

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