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Aquapura
Posts: 1323
Incept: 2012-04-19

GeorgeFloyd-ville
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Regarding tipping, there are some states that do not allow a tip credit, i.e. they are getting full minimum wage + tips. Minnesota is one of those states and I know it thus my servers get a lower % tip compared to if I were dining out in a different state. Let's be honest here. In Minneapolis the $15 min wage isn't fully phased in yet but you can't hire anyone for less than it, at least pre-Covid. So, that server is making $15/hr and on a busy night is handling at least 4 covers per hour. Let's assume its a modest place and the average tip is $10...that's $55/hr. That's a six figure income if you work it full time. I've worked in the hospitality industry. Good servers can easily clear that kind of money....of course all pre-Covid. Even in tip credit states you can still make very good income at these service jobs...if you are good at it. Drawback is always the hours and volatility of the industry (need to work at busy places), but I have worked with and know many good servers. None of them want to have a European non-tipping system as they stand to make much less income.
Jeepguy
Posts: 369
Incept: 2020-02-07

Ohio
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@Aquapura the majority of tips are no where near 10 bucks, at least in my central Ohio area!

Article clip::
As of January 1, 2020, the minimum wage for non-tipped employees in Ohio will rise from $8.55 to $8.70 per hour, a 15-cent increase. Any tipped employees will have their base pay go from $4.30 to $4.35 an hour.Dec 30, 2019
Article link:
https://www.nfib.com/content/nfib-in-my-....
My comments:
However those under 16 years of age still get screwed they only get $7.25 an hour! Yeah boy I really wonder what their motivation is?

now let us all join hands as we sing the propaganda about young folks not seemingly motivated to work! (When you're openly paid less why would you?)

Let's consider the (WHOLESALE) cost of food particularly Italian dishes!

Let's use the Olive garden as an example...

Commercial lasagna pan I'm going to guess is 13 to 14 in Long say 6 to 10 inches wide....

So take a wild-ass guess how many pieces of lasagna they could possibly serve out of one pan of lasagna... Another words how many guests does baking one lasagna actually serve?

Let's say it serves 15 people... At $15 bucks a plate that's a total of $225 gross made from just one pan of lasagna!

If it's only $12 a plate/customer and you serve 15 customers that comes out to be $180 gross from one pan of lasagna!!

Let's examine what it cost for the restaurant to make said lasagna...

I know that they're not loaded with hamburger so they probably only use a pound... Pound of burger say 70/30 mix depends on the grocery store will cost me the consumer retail 5 to $7...

the restaurant probably gets that very same pound wholesale for as little as 2.50 to $3 depending upon the quantities that they are ordering at a time...

Wholesale pasta hardly $0.30

Purchasing sauce wholesale as low as $0.65

cheese as a consumer paying retail I can pick up most cheeses that I want for two to three dollars, the restaurant wholesale we could estimate a buck 25 to a buck 50

So::::::
3.00 hamburger
1.50 cheese
.30 pasta
.65 sauce
-----------------------------------------
=$5.45 total cost of one lasagna that can serve 15 people!

Yeah sorry they're not broke! The oh so poor business whine will not work on me!
Step up to the plate and pay your employees, Don't force me to tip!

that said I also understand that business is not to be used as a cash cow! I have managed to set on either side of the desk!

I guess I'm just the type of manager that I want longevity from people, I don't want a revolving door that ultimately costs me more money because I have to hire a large number of people knowing that I'm going to lose a bunch of people because our wages aren't worth a ****... I like consistency!

And every one of those people no matter how long they stay I still have to pay unemployment whether they're eligible to collect it when they leave or not, also have to pay into workers compensation insurance!

perhaps now everyone will get the message that, oh I see through the bull****!

Yes I'm on board with the knowledge that this covid nonsense has destroyed a lot of these businesses and most of which will more than likely never come back, I'm in 100% agreement!

But for years upon years and years and years many restaurant owners have whined that the customers need to tip more and more and blah blah blah...
sorry I don't fall for that, that easily especially when I can do mathematics and I understand what wholesale costs are!

I also understand that yes some folks who work in that industry they don't want to see the tip system go away, I'm (not) saying outlaw the tip system, I'm just saying that we need to put a lot less emphasis on it...

and of course if it was really a six-figure income and or potentially a six-figure income, don't you think by now that everyone would want to be a waitress or server?
tell you what bud I have actually dated a number of those folks they've worked at bars restaurants etc many of them talked about only one time and their entire existence in them jobs and these were people by the way their mid-40s MILFs.. they talked about how it was only one time have they ever seen a large tip like three hundred bucks some say the biggest they've ever gotten is literally $50...
Of course it's largely a one-horse town but that's actually between here and Columbus Ohio! So lots of them have worked in the bigger city and yet still did not see huge tips! If people constantly tipped as much as some claim they do then I'm sorry no one would work the factory, everyone would go serve you food at a restaurant!

So it's true everyone in that business does Stand to make awesome amounts of money through tips but it's more so that you're not really going to see that! Otherwise everyone would want that job!

Asimov
Posts: 119087
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee
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Quote:
Pound of burger say 70/30 mix depends on the grocery store will cost me the consumer retail 5 to $7...


Holy ****. We always stock up at $1.49-$1.99/lb, but it's almost never over $2.49.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Tickerguy
Posts: 167489
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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I was gonna say if you're paying more than $2.99 you're getting robbed BADLY.

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 100,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me
Asimov
Posts: 119087
Incept: 2007-08-26

East Tennessee
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It would be worth the dry ice and cooler to ship it to you in ohio from here, if you're paying $7/lb for it.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.

Festina lente.
Jeepguy
Posts: 369
Incept: 2020-02-07

Ohio
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@Tickerguy
I was taking in account that some people shop Kroger and giant eagle, which they really do charge those hefty prices!

I personally shop cheap stores!
Zappafan
Posts: 4248
Incept: 2007-11-30

Atlanta
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I haven't seen ground beef under $3/lb around here in a long time. Granted I mostly shop at the higher end places, plus Publix and Kroger which are not high end.

Kroger ground beef 80/20 currently selling for $4.49/lb. I found 70/30 for $3.36/lb at Wild Fork (delivery.)

You can find some cheaper prices if you're willing to head towards the cheaper side of town and hit up the Food Depot or a Hispanic market. Certainly it won't be grass-fed, organic or any of that stuff.

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"I rule on land, air and sea, pass judgment on humanity
Winds blow from the bowels of hell
Will we give warning, only time will tell
Satan rears his ugly head, to spit into the wind": Megadeth
Jwjw
Posts: 20
Incept: 2019-07-13

Rocky Mountains
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@Mannfm11, it appears Singapore got serious about stopping fecal matter transmission of the virus. And their transmission problem and deaths went away.

"Mayors are bureaucrats and municipalities are corporations. There really isn't room for a free market or conservative in such a system."
1) Vote with your feet and your wallet, and move.
2) The mayor of my municipality is a libertarian. And I just got involved on the planning commission. Maybe you would like the place I live.
3) Stay in Texas and get off the property tax roll via allodial title. Some screamers gave "land patent" bad publicity, though I have spoken with people in TX who say they did it. It may be easier in TX because I understand property taxes are already low, so less to fight over.

Pick something and go after it, instead of being demoralized and angry.

"Municipalities are corporations". I looked in to that, and while I was on town council I also looked for the truther claim of multiple sets of accounting statements. I had a key to the offices and all of the filing cabinets, and I went through all of them on weekends by myself.
Neither of those claims are true. Anyone with an employee does get a federal tax id to use on the payroll withholding. That doesn't make them a corporation.

A big problem I have with the Alex Jones truthers is he gets them to direct their energy in nonproductive ways. Then they get upset, demoralized, and become even less effective. Hopefully @JeepGuy from Ohio snaps out of that cycle of ineffectiveness. I won't know, as I simply block his ID here.
Tickerguy
Posts: 167489
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@JwJw - Exactly.

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 100,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me
Tonythetiger
Posts: 93
Incept: 2019-01-27

Fort Walton
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@Jeepguy

Restaurant's aren't rolling in cash like you describe. Based on 10 years of keeping books at a medium size restaurant (seating ~175) I can give you these rough numbers for an average month:

Sales: $75,000 to $80,000
Bottom Line Profit: $12,000
(That profit includes money that would otherwise go toward a General Manager, as we did that ourselves, so maybe $3,000 per month lower profit if you don't want to spend 60+ hours a week running the place yourself.)

So you're looking at roughly 15% to 16% margins, which is on the high side mostly because of beer and wine sales (> 50% margins on those or roughly 1/3 of the profit). A smaller Mom 'n Pop place without alcohol might clear 9% net margins on sales. So that $15 plate of lasagna, with two sides, and a salad might add $1.25 to the bottom line, while a beer with the meal adds another $1 to $1.50. Every other penny goes toward paying for labor, the food, the bills, and taxes.

And that's when the wait-staff get paid at ~65% of minimum wage plus tips.

As for tipping, a good server will choose to work for tips any time. First, because they get more take home money that way, and second, because customers pitch a livid hissy fit when you tack on a 20% fixed tip as part of the cost of the meal. I've seen people get so angry that they are spraying spit on those standing near them arguing over the "tables bigger than 6" forced tip of 18%. It's amazing that people get so worked up over an extra 3% tip cost, maybe $2 to $3 more than a 15% tip.

Good servers can average 20% to 25% of sales from tips. When you cover 4 or 5 tables for a busy lunch/dinner rush you can pull in $40 to $50+ in 5 hours. Think they'd rather get that flat $3/hr instead? No way Jose. Ain't happening.

It's been my experience that any server who would rather get minimum wage instead of tips would be better off finding a different vocation, because waiting tables isn't their strong suit. It isn't for everyone and there's no shame in finding that out the hard way.

Believe it or not, the biggest group of tippers, by far, are other wait staff folks. I've seen those people leave a $12 tip on an $8 order so many times it stopped surprising me. They know what it's like being "in the weeds" and they tip accordingly. If you can convince your waiter that you're a former restaurant person and cut them an immense amount of slack to take care of other tables first they'll go out of their way to make it up to you, but your tip better be large enough to convince them you aren't lying about it. You only get one chance at that.

Next time you see someone in a restaurant picking up the mess at their table before they leave you can almost guarantee they used to wait tables. The folk who let their baby toss food everywhere and then leave it all laying there when they leave are the kind who make servers want to tear their hair out.

It's an interesting dynamic for sure, but it's very difficult to get those who haven't experienced it first hand to understand how it all really works. Anyone who has lived through it can't help but leave a little extra on the table for those who are waist deep in alligators, especially if you can easily afford it.


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Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it.
― Thomas Paine
Aquapura
Posts: 1323
Incept: 2012-04-19

GeorgeFloyd-ville
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Jeepguy - of course there is a decent of profit in the food a restaurant sells if you only look at the raw input costs of that food itself. The price of that plate also needs to cover the costs of the labor. It also has to cover all the overhead of the building to keep the lights on the gas to the stoves, etc. Not to mention the cost of the building itself, which is usually pretty steep rent. I've seen the pro formas, it's not a high margin business. Actually most sit down restaurants make ALL their profits on alcohol sales. Food is a zero sum game for many restaurants.

As for servers, it's a hard job. You have to be personable all-the-time. And the best hours are Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. You make your money when most people want to be social, ergo, you are not social with other people. Doesn't work for many. I can't speak for your town but a former client has locations in Dublin and Easton areas of Columbus. His best servers were all making in excess of $60k with tips as of a few years ago. Nice places, borderline fine dining with higher check average. He also hires the best and these people worked up starting in places like Dennys. Like any job you have to put some actual effort in to reach the pinnacle.

Off topic but bar tending can be quite lucrative on tips. Had a friend whose sister had a very large chest. She worked two nights/week - Friday and Saturday standing on a platform wearing a bikini and selling beer out of a giant ice bucket. Of course she had to bend over to pick up the bottles. It was a nice show. Total about 20 hours per week and was clearing over $70k in the early 00's. ALL on tips from horny drunk guys tipping a $5 on a bottle of Bud. But alas, age is not always kind and she grew out of that profession.


Tonythetiger
Posts: 93
Incept: 2019-01-27

Fort Walton
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Jwjw said:
Quote:
"Municipalities are corporations". I looked in to that, ... (and) Neither of those claims are true.

Au contraire my good man. Check out the Texas Statutes:

https://law.justia.com/codes/texas/2005/....
Quote:
5.902 (b) A change in designation does not affect the municipality's corporate existence or powers.

Now I'm not going to claim that a municipality being a corporation gives them any special powers to screw the public over via some secretive agreement with the State or Federal government. But the form of most municipalities is in fact a corporation. They are usually covered by different statutes than a commercial corporation so they're not exactly the same, but they ARE a corporation.

My tiny hometown in upstate NY used to have a large sign at the village boundary which said "Welcome to the Village of XYZ ... Incorporated in 1868" on it. That's when the corporation for my village was formed under NY State law.


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Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it.
― Thomas Paine
Ebt
Posts: 279
Incept: 2018-12-22

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I like Alex Jones. In fact, I'm one of the people that contribute $ to the Infowar! I think American journalism = Tucker Carlson and Alex Jones. Most of the rest is nothing.

But other than that, I go about my life and it doesn't demoralize me too much.
I just think A Jones has called too many things right and he be taken very seriously.
Jwjw
Posts: 20
Incept: 2019-07-13

Rocky Mountains
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@Tonythetiger, interesting. Thanks for the link!
I'm certainly not an expert in TX law, as the only time I was there I was under the UCMJ.

It would be useful to really dig in to what is provided to govts in TX. By learning what is granted, you can also find the weaknesses.

A few years back I compared the State major/minor party laws, mostly of western States. It is fascinating how the system is coded to create a two-party system in practical terms.

I'm willing to say I'm not an expert in most things. I did just spend the last four days writing contempt of court fillings against the county attorney in my family court case. I'm digging in and trying.
Fumei
Posts: 1031
Incept: 2019-01-08

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Quote:
Mayors are bureaucrats and municipalities are corporations. There really isn't room for a free market or conservative in such a system.

At least the Mayor of the Czech city of Prague does not like the gooks of the CCP.
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/39....
Baraka
Posts: 10
Incept: 2020-08-28

Boucherville, QC
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Masks don't work.

An other study from 2015...
https://www.bitchute.com/video/iHrLD7bG0....
Look at about 3:20 min.
Jeepguy
Posts: 369
Incept: 2020-02-07

Ohio
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@Aquapura
Yeah sorry your friend is imagining that servers in Columbus was making 60k!

I mean most of those under 35 in Columbus are servers, if they made anywhere near 60k a year they wouldn't bother with college!

Oh I forgot ("it's hard") yeah so are most other jobs that are in central Ohio!

Hummm 60k Workin 30 hours or hummmm hardly 21k working 35-40 hours a week... What do I do???

Yeah I'd opt for the server job!

Sorry large chest or not I do not believe that anyone behind a bar is making anywhere near 70k a year outside of the owner!

I want to see pay stubs/tax filings!!
Because I too had relatives bull**** about making big money like $500 bucks a night!!

Lol yeah ****in right the bands got 3-500 for two nights one night if they was lucky!

No server is making that, that's a bull**** story perpetuated by those who obviously wish they made more, and by cheap ass restaurant owners whom are looking to justify the crap wage by claiming that they make almost 100k a year!! Lol yeah right!

Oh because some years the business it's self doesn't even see 100k like this year!!

Do you really expect me to believe that staff with a base pay of $4.35 an hour (in Ohio) makes more or about as much as the business it's self???

Nope sorry I've heard this bull**** long ago and know better, there again if they actually made that kind of money everyone else would want to be a server!

Or perhaps these now struggling small businesses owners could go be servers and use the tips to save their businesses!

Yes the cost: so your saying I should ignore the profit margins from each plate of food, but if I so happen to pay attention to it that I should over inflate the cost of everything right down to the lousy $4.35 an hour
(servers get in Ohio) and join the oh so poor business ball fest!

Well okay... Rent yes it's high very high! I'll give ya that!

Oh and even at KFC the money that is the fast money to be made is drinks! But of course it is when you charge about 3 bucks for a cup of ice and a tad of soda!

Yes I know there's cost of keeping the joint open, however that's what we call the cost of doing business! Seems like many people forgot about that, seems like they don't there to be a cost!

Oh hummmm quick thought if the restaurant business is half as bad as you say, then gee all of these restaurant owners must be happy the Government has ruined their businesses!

I mean it was a bitch to manage and all those pesky costs!

Look fact is that it depends on the management, face it some people just can't run a restaurant no matter how much they've been in the industry!

Not every mechanic can run a repair shop, it boils down to the skill of the manager!
Ebt
Posts: 279
Incept: 2018-12-22

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I guess Mark Levin is also OK. There's a few others too, but Tucker Carlson and Alex Jones are the best.

For those of you that aren't 100%+ pro-Trump, it reminds me of something my grandfather used to say: "Mediocrity can recognize only itself".

Hard-hitting but true.
Redjack
Posts: 431
Incept: 2018-01-29

Iowa
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Jeepguy
Friend of mine is/was a head chef (after covid God knows what he is doing now). A few years back, we were BSing over drinks about opening a restaurant.

My friend, who has been in the food service industry at all levels for over 20 years, said that 80% of the restaurants fail. High overhead (including labor) eats into the profits to the point where it is either a write off for the corporation, or a labor of love. For sit down restaurants, my friend said that they are the worst investment. If the owner isn't there all the time, the staff will drink them out of house and home. Not to mention just steal the tip jar money.

Long story short, he said that while he was a chef because he loved it, it is a lifestyle not a career. I know what he made before he became an executive chef at a corporation, and let's just say it wasn't a lot.


He did know one, and I mean one, waitress who made bank. She also was suspected of turning tricks on the side.
Tickerguy
Posts: 167489
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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I've known several small restauranteurs in my life. Exactly ONE of them wound up turning it into something really, really special AND LARGE. I've seen a few that are obviously quite successful over long periods of time, but the owner is not driving a Lambo and IS working his ass off. Most fail outright.

As for servers I know a couple who have done extraordinarily well. But it takes a certain sort of person to be able to do it, and you have to love it too, because if you're sharp enough to be able to pull it off you can make as much or more doing something else. It is definitely NOT easy -- or common.

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 100,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me
Jack_crabb
Posts: 9045
Incept: 2010-06-25

Peoples' Republik of Maryland
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Quote:
It is definitely NOT easy -- or common.


But nonetheless, it does happen.

It's not unusual for a top performer - think salesman or hourly foreman of a trade crew - to make more than the owner of a company. Esp. very-small-to-medium-sized trade companies.

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Molon Labe
Where is Henry Bowman when you need him?
How many are willing to pledge this? We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor
Ebt
Posts: 279
Incept: 2018-12-22

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To me, owning a restaurant would be horrible. Very hard work and its never done. You have to be so organized and so good. I have a friend who does it up in the North Shore of MA, they've got 4 locations and he's really made it work, though I don't know how.

Tickerguy
Posts: 167489
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Oh absolutely @Jack_crabb -- I had a sales person that took home checks larger than mine as the CEO several times, and I signed the checks so I know that's not bull****. He worked on commission and that mother****er could sell ice cubes to Eskimos.

He was GOOD.

But people that good are RARE in any field.

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 100,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me

Jack_crabb
Posts: 9045
Incept: 2010-06-25

Peoples' Republik of Maryland
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I agree that it is definitely rare, but to scoff at the notion that top performers can make more than the owner is merely absurd and ignorant.

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Molon Labe
Where is Henry Bowman when you need him?
How many are willing to pledge this? We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor
Little_eddie
Posts: 1817
Incept: 2009-04-30

Delaware
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I have a lot of regular wait staff, because I like to be pampered and I tell them so and they know I'm going to tip them well in exchange.

With the current 50% limit and all the Karen's staying home I've been heavily tipping some of my girls as I know their not making any real money.

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It's Collapse, get use to it, everything else is just 'them' trying to hide it from you.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. - George Carlin
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