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Jeepguy
Posts: 294
Incept: 2020-02-07

Ohio
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Lol businesses need to take this attitude!
Inline
Tonythetiger
Posts: 68
Incept: 2019-01-27

Fort Walton
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TG wrote:
Quote:
by the time you can get it, and take it, viral replication of the flu is either complete or nearly so.

The other side of that coin is that the current HCQ studies might be investigating the wrong hypothesis. Are any of the 200-ish studies set up to investigate the prophylactic effectiveness of HCQ and zinc together? If not, why not?

Everywhere I look I see what appears to be utter ignorance on the part of those who fund/interpret these studies. They aren't stupid people, and if I can piece together a reasonable hypothesis (HCQ + zinc as a viral prophylactic) to improve resistance to viral infection that appears to be effective and is supported by anecdotal evidence, why can't they?

Instead they go out of their way to trumpet the 'danger' and lack of effectiveness on a 24/7 basis, using that as a reason to outright ban such use on threat of revoking licenses of doctors who step out of line. And this for a drug with a 60+ year history of safe and effective use against malaria.

I don't see how this isn't professional malfeasance, but maybe it's just me.

Tickerguy
Posts: 166190
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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@Tonythetiger - If you eat meat there is very little chance you're zinc deficient.

It's also found in abundance in nuts and most species of bean.

Excess zinc is bad news, as is the case with most metals.

The HCQ hysteria is outrageous but do not descend into quackery on the other side of the debate -- and there is plenty of that to go around as well.

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 50,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me
M1919a2
Posts: 738
Incept: 2015-07-18

Washington
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@Tickerguy

Most effective statement - simplicity and clarity in one short sentence!
Exelitepwrlftr
Posts: 58
Incept: 2019-12-16

North Carolina
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Quote:
Instead they go out of their way to trumpet the 'danger' and lack of effectiveness on a 24/7 basis, using that as a reason to outright ban such use on threat of revoking licenses of doctors who step out of line.


I think most of us realize that treatment with HCQ would be very limited (admittedly I don't know how long it's prescribed for in most Covid-19 cases) however it wouldn't be near long enough to develop a heart arrythmia. Not that ****ing quickly - no way no how.

And on top of that - we're supposed to trust a vaccine that has been rushed through clinical trials and has NO proven track record over a drug that's been around AND used safely for over half a century. What the **** planet am I living on that people look at the data and decide the vaccine is less risky?

I'm beyond perplexed at the decision making process of the large majority of the population.

THIS is the salient point from the Newsweek opinion piece and IMO, why the MSM should be held accountable by the families of those who died unnecessarily from Covid-19 similarly to what Nick Sandmann is currently doing to those POSes:

Quote:
concerns have been raised by the FDA and others about risks of cardiac arrhythmia, especially when hydroxychloroquine is given in combination with azithromycin. The FDA based its comments on data in its FDA Adverse Event Reporting System. This reporting system captured up to a thousand cases of arrhythmias attributed to hydroxychloroquine use. In fact, the number is likely higher than that, since the reporting system, which requires physicians or patients to initiate contact with the FDA, appreciably undercounts drug side effects.


Quote:
But what the FDA DID NOT ANNOUNCE is that these adverse events were generated from tens of millions of patient uses of hydroxychloroquine for long periods of time, often for the chronic treatment of lupus or rheumatoid arthritis. Even if the true rates of arrhythmia are ten-fold higher than those reported, the harms would be minuscule compared to the mortality occurring right now in inadequately treated high-risk COVID-19 patients.


EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING in this country is ****ing corrupt. I know this is OT but did anyone watch the hearing with William Barr yesterday? If that doesn't tell you how corrupt the lefties are then we deserve what we get for not voting them out of office. The way he was treated yesterday was almost as disgraceful as what they did to Justice Kavanaugh in front of his wife and daughters during his confirmation hearings. The left haven't even the slightest bit of decorum left in their arsenal. Complete **** show yesterday.

Reason: missed end quote tag
Mannfm11
Posts: 6400
Incept: 2009-02-28

DFW, Tx
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KD wrote..
This virus simply isn't all that deadly. A bit more than the flu, but not much more when you get down to it, and in terms of the person-years it steals it's a piker; the seasonal flu kills plenty of young children with 80 years of life in front of them. This thing mostly kills people with 2 months left. Statistically speaking this thing is materially less deadly in person-years taken than a decently-nasty influenza.


I will repeat this stat. 1000 months is 83 years 4 months. Thus simple math is 1 month for 1 million people is 1000 full lives. If half the country is shut down, life consumed is 165,000 full lives. That would equate to 1.65 million people dying 10 years early each month. How many people have died of CV19 that wouldn't have been dead within 10 years? I bet less than 10,000. How many would have died? One hell of a lot less than were consumed in time with this nonsense.

KD, I think the flu counts are real, in the sense the death started with the flu. I took the latest flu year and back analyzed it, taking each years flu deaths from the running total, dropping the last 2 weeks of data. I curved the data by using the 2 most healthy years in terms of death to get a demographic increase (aging & population) to attempt to eliminate that effect. What I found is net the flu figures for every year, there are between 20,000 and 70,000 additional deaths this year. How many are CV19 Murders, suicides, who knows.

There are some oddities, looking at the various years. You would think a variance that wide (50,000 between years, netting out the flu) would be mainly because of the flu. Close to 2% in a sample of 2.8 million from a sample of 325 million is a pretty wide margin of error. Makes me wonder what else was killing those extra people, besides the flu some years. Kind of makes me wonder what else goes around we don't know and they don't tell us. If 51 died instead of 50, out of a population of 5000, you wouldn't think much about it, noise. But, out of a large sample, netting out a primary fluctuation, you would think the variance would be under 1%.

Who dies is clearly a function of life expectancy. A large difference in white male and black male life expectancy revolves around the sizable number of young black homicides. That might be balanced out by a higher white suicide rate, which likely happens at an older age. Much of the difference between male and female life expectancy revolves around 3 factors, homicide, suicide and accidents, all of which occur at younger ages. I looked into the official causes of death years ago and found these causes, all the started at very young ages, especially accidental death.

Where I'm going with this revolves around the 1 out of 1000 dying each month idea. Death in the USA isn't even close to 1 out of 1000. Neither is supposed life expectancy for males, females being close. ARE THEY UNDERSTATING LIFE EXPECTANCY? Or, is it so accurate that people are expiring at an almost fixed age now? Demographics are some of it, but 80 years old now corresponds to a 1940 birth year and 1950, for a 70 year old.

I bring this up for a couple of reasons, one being actuarial tables. How broke are pensions, if life expectancy is actually a few years higher than stated? On the other hand, how expensive is life insurance? Someone isn't dying, the numbers say should be dying earlier. Somewhere in the 2000-2005 period, life insurers started issuing guaranteed UL. I did the finance on these policies. I couldn't figure how they were doing it, unless they planned on collecting a lot more years than we were led to believe. Most of the first year or 2 of premium are consumed with origination charges, so making enough money out of early year lapses is not an option, though I know the surplus vanishes in surrender charges. You still have to create the annuity to provide the payout. They must have been way off for those willing to pay, because people started taking out policies to turn around and sell at a profit. Larry King, the TV guy, supposedly bought and sold so much insurance they wouldn't sell him any more, because he would be worth more dead than alive. There was a large actuarial bet against an actuarial bet, confirming my suspicion.

In any case, what was those extra 40,000 to 50,000 people in flu years 2015, 2017 and 2018? That many extra people didn't kill themselves, kill others or OD in those individual years. Net of the flu, the current year shows an excess of between 20,000 and 30,000 over these 3 years, net P&I, which one could explain with CV19. But what about suicides and delayed medical procedures? That could easily explain these net of the flu difference. It is the years where the variance is 60,000 to 70,000. Something got those extra 40,000 to 50,000 people, in the higher death years besides the flu and it appears to have been as big as CV19. Why the screaming now and total silence then?

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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Drifter
Posts: 619
Incept: 2016-02-11

Pacific Northwest
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An orthodontist pal just had two employees test positive for covid. They've been wearing masks, taking temps, etc... one gal says she can't taste/smell ****... so they all get tested. 2 out of 16 are positive.

The health dept wants to contact trace... 6days later. The ortho-- he's hesitant to violate hippa rules, but has contacted all of his patients... so now 8 days later, he and the health dept are still trying to hash everything out.

Madness. But check the resume of the chief of your local health dept... you might understand why it's a cluster**** of a Chinese fire drill.

Do you remember the study where you are in contact with anybody in the US within 5 or less people? Well who were these women in contact before... after... hundreds of people. They all need to quarantine... and everybody those people were in contact with too.

Insane. The health dept can kiss my ass.
Burya_rubenstein
Posts: 1743
Incept: 2007-08-08


Online
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Mannfm: A couple of things to consider:

First, the equivalent lives taken is twice as bad as you indicate. Given either a normal or a uniform distribution of ages, the average person will have only half of their lifespan left, or 500 months. This means that 1,000,000 people locked down for a month is 2000 people killed equivalent (1,000,000/500).

On the life inwurance thing, if you pay attention, they say as little as $9.95 a month for as much as a payoff amount, and there's some teeny tiny text at the bottom of the screen at some point during the commercial. It's a pretty good bet that if you read the full price schedule, the $9.95 figure and the payout amount in the commercial are on separate lines. And it should go without saying that there's a third dimension to the chart for age.

This doesn't mean you're wrong about what they're up to and why.
Exelitepwrlftr
Posts: 58
Incept: 2019-12-16

North Carolina
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I know this link was originally posted in the Covid-19 forum however I can only read over there and not reply. @Karl - apologies for putting this here but it is somewhat related.

One good thing that's coming out of the testing it's it's facilitated the backward looking models that show the "true" transmission rate on a state by state basis.

I remember you writing back in early or mid May that you had data showing the curves were already trending down when lockdowns were implemented and the models at https://rt.live/ would seem to corroborate your observations.

For emphasis (and to show that the government mandates have had no impact whatsoever) - I added a couple data points to the timeline for NC.

Beignet
Posts: 2011
Incept: 2008-05-16

O-Town
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How about a podcast on what vitamins/minerals to take? I also buy Life Extension, someone recommended it to me years ago from here.

I also take N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine. 600mg. MedCam Doc says this is what he takes on his you tube videos and that he takes it with Quercetin. 250mg.

Side note. Bought some zinc back in February. I purchased 50MG. It made me ill. Gave one to my son who is 20 he got nausea.

Since then I try to eat oysters once a week.

Anyone here add a drop or two of iodine to a glass of water and with selenium?

Curious.

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Kokobeware
Posts: 38
Incept: 2010-05-04

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https://www.advisorperspectives.com/comm....

A GREAT read on perception vs reality when it comes to Covid illustrating how easy it is to manipulate the sheep.
Bodhi
Posts: 2347
Incept: 2008-02-23

Canton, GA
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Quote:
Bought some zinc back in February. I purchased 50MG. It made me ill. Gave one to my son who is 20 he got nausea.


Zinc will tear up an empty stomach. Best to take immediately following a meal. I use zinc lozenges that are about 19mg each.

Quote:
Anyone here add a drop or two of iodine to a glass of water and with selenium?


I take one drop of Lugol's 2% iodine twice a day. Each drop is 2.5mg. Iodine is one of the things that helped me resolve hyperthyroidism. Best not to take iodine after 4 pm as it can interfere with sleep. Selenium is one of my daily supplements.

Reason: Lugol's 2%, not 5%
Jwjw
Posts: 8
Incept: 2019-07-13

Rocky Mountains
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@Tickerguy "you won't be able to pass more government handout money to those that try to do this since there will be enough NO votes to block it". Other than a few such as Rand Paul, the votes for handouts are there and it will continue.

@Jeepguy has it right by defending the people getting the so-called unemployment handouts. It's not their fault.

The big guys got their payroll protection handouts, and look at the bailouts to the execs of the cruise lines and the airlines.

While guaranteed basic income is here in pieces, the real problem is the big business backstops (2009, 2020). It's not a free market and the newly unemployed aren't generally responsible for this.

Break up the cartels and monopolies. In the meantime, walk around and meet your neighbors. I just got on the local "comprehensive plan committee" here. Fighting with people on Facebook is stupid. Get involved in the real world.
Exelitepwrlftr
Posts: 58
Incept: 2019-12-16

North Carolina
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Quote:
Bought some zinc back in February. I purchased 50MG. It made me ill. Gave one to my son who is 20 he got nausea


This is a common side-effect in about 30% of the population. Take it with food. That said, I'd be careful with zinc, it's really not meant to be a supplement that you take on a perpetual basis. I'd do a little research on that if I were you. It's one thing to be concerned about Covid but another thing entirely to make yourself sick by taking too much zinc.

I'm going off memory, but I don't believe it's recommended beyond 8 weeks (I think at 50mg/day). Have a look for yourself, don't quote me on that but it's worth looking into.

Reason: Edited zinc dosage to show 50mg/day
Tonythetiger
Posts: 68
Incept: 2019-01-27

Fort Walton
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Came across these articles on quercetin, vitamin C, and nebulizing hydrogen peroxide on Mercola.com. The articles contain hyperlinked footnotes that take you to a list of links for supporting material. There is a lot more information that what I'm putting in my 'Cliff's Notes' outlines below. It's worth the time it takes to read, IMHO.

NOTE 1: I had to sign up for an account in order to read the articles (email and password). There is a default option to get their newsletter email which can be deselected if you wish.

NOTE 2: The usual disclaimers apply. Use at your own risk.

Quercetin & Vitamin C

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic....

Cliff's Notes version:
Quote:
Prophylaxis: Quercetin 500 mg/day with Vitamin C 500 mg/day


Nebulized H2O2

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic....

Cliff's Notes version:
Quote:
1/4 Teaspoon 3% H2O2 in 7.25 Teaspoon filtered water

FYI: 8 Teaspoons = 1/6 cup

Tickerguy
Posts: 166190
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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I would be EXTREMELY cautious about using nebulized H2O2. In fact my reaction to that is quite a bit beyond caution.

Peroxide is an excellent disinfectant and as a gargle or similar a very effective oral debriding agent. It destroys biological material very effectively as the "extra" oxygen in it (compared with water) is highly reactive. The problem is that it is non-specific in its action.

It is produced naturally during the healing process but in a much, much lower concentration. There is evidence that it has a signalling role in this regard. But -- inhaling it is going to be uncontrolled, and that comes with a LOT of risk.

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 50,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me

Tonythetiger
Posts: 68
Incept: 2019-01-27

Fort Walton
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TG wrote:
Quote:
I would be EXTREMELY cautious about using nebulized H2O2. In fact my reaction to that is quite a bit beyond caution.

I agree 100%. I have no plans to begin inhaling H2O2 any time soon. Thanks for emphasizing the potential risks involved as part of any decision making process.

However I may find myself in the situation where I catch the Covid and progress to the point where I experience shortness of breath. At that point my options are:

1) Tough it out and possibly die at home
2) Give nebulized H2O2 a try and see what happens, risking a reversion to 1)
3) Go to the local hospital and risk the ventilator, keeping in mind that they have already killed a 26 year old in similar circumstance through borderline negligence

Given what I know at this point, if ever faced with that decision, I'm thinking the odds are pretty good I'll give 2) a whirl.

Hopefully nobody reading this will need to make that decision, but I'm prepared to. I've got the nebulizer and H2O2 standing by if it ever comes to that. I'd like to think that the prophylaxes I'm using will spare me the need of using it.

As always, opinions on the topic may vary widely. I can only speak for myself. That said, I'd like to think that providing critical thinking folks another option to consider, with appropriate and justifiable warnings, is better than saying nothing.

FWIW, it took several weeks for the nebulizer to arrive as it was shipped to me directly from China.

Tickerguy
Posts: 166190
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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I'd find a steroid I can nebulize before H2O2. That is very unlikely to kill you, it doesn't have the nasty risk profile that all IV steroids do as the impact is local, and you're attacking the problem where it is.

I'd have no quarrel with using that in a nebulizer at all; asthmatics do so all the time and it's got a long history of being reasonably safe. H2O2 is in an entirely different class since it's a non-specific therapy where attacking immune over-reaction at the source of the trouble in your body would appear to me to have a MUCH more-favorable risk:reward ratio.

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 50,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me
Purplefang
Posts: 94
Incept: 2010-03-28

Oklahoma
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I would not use H2O2.

About supplements. Dosage is important. Almost anything can be done too little or too much. You also have to consider your weight. More weight may need higher dosage. Vitamin D is tolerated well. If you are ill 10000 iu would not be too much. With Vitamin C you can easily tolerate many grams a day. I consider 500 mg to be too little if you are sick. I know nothing about zinc. I took 50 mg a few days and didn't notice anything, but I feel I probably don't have to take it. If 50 mg makes you feel bad cut back to a lower dose.

You need all the vitamins. Some are just catalysts and higher doses do not help. Anti-oxidants (C and E) may be helpful in higher doses than the minimum needed. Certain trace minerals like selenium and chromium can be deficient in your diet, but you don't want too much. This is what I take,
A - I just eat carrots
B - I take a B-complex because there are too many B's to take individually. What they call a B-50 is enough.
C - 500 mg a day, when I feel too tired or ill I take more up to 3 grams.
D - In summer i take none, because I get sun, Around October to March I take 2000 iu a day
E - 400 iu natural E, do not buy the cheap synthetic E.
selenium - 100 or 200 micrograms - organic, not selenate
others I throw in a couple times a wek
resveratrol
chromium 200 micrograms
boron 3 mg
kelp - for iodine
M1919a2
Posts: 738
Incept: 2015-07-18

Washington
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In a world (yes, the entire earth) transforming into ZOMBIES thru MASKAFICATION, these words concluding The Federalist article - The Story Of How Samuel Colt Made Men Equal - by Tony Daniel, gives one pause to consider what the world was like 200 years ago (1820s) just prior to (1840s) this man's genius and the instrument coming from that genius and giving to the individual HUMAN BEING the means to EFFECT that which is embodied in these timeless words written in blood - "...all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." 1 Statute at Large 1.

"Colts quirky, irascible individualism suggests Colt might have had an inkling of what he had accomplished in bringing his revolver into being. It was a basic transformation, on par with and preparing the way for the automobile and the personal computer.

In inventing and promoting the revolver, Colt transformed American society and seeded the soil for the triumph of democracy in the coming century, where massive attempts to transform humans into interchangeable parts in the machinery of state were met by resilient individualists who understood in their bones that a bullet could end a Hitler or Stalin just as easily as it could a common man.

Samuel Colt invented, patented (worldwide), and manufactured to high standards at relatively low cost a personal weapon that placed the individual in a rough equality with the state, where, despite frantic attempts to annihilate that individual, he remains to this day-in no small part thanks to Samuel Colt."

Link to the complete article:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/31/the....

Reason: - not recognized in paste version, so corrected
Zappafan
Posts: 4112
Incept: 2007-11-30

Atlanta
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While guaranteed basic income is here in pieces, the real problem is the big business backstops (2009, 2020). It's not a free market and the newly unemployed aren't generally responsible for this.


I'm more and more becoming aware that I am a chump to continue working. Sure, I made some good decisions earlier in life like getting an M.S. in the sciences and pursuing a tech career, but lately I can't help but notice that the work I am doing is somewhat superfluous. Who really needs more tech gadgets, more software, if that does not contribute to society?

Many corporations are now vehicles for financial engineering and not true revenue producing entities. Private equity takes respectable revenue producing but not high growth ones and hollows them out for short term payouts to investors.

The pool of interesting companies I'd actually be interested in working for keeps shrinking.

Getting a package and then signing up for leech-f%^# bucks to ride it out until the collapse sounds like a better plan than continuing to go through the motions.

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"I rule on land, air and sea, pass judgment on humanity
Winds blow from the bowels of hell
Will we give warning, only time will tell
Satan rears his ugly head, to spit into the wind": Megadeth
Jeepguy
Posts: 294
Incept: 2020-02-07

Ohio
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And yesterday governor dildo of Ohio, issued yet another pointless order!
Yes this one is all about how the bars need to stop serving alcohol at 10 pm!

And of course the commie liquor board sided with the elf!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.10tv.co....

Of course governor elf is blaming the bars and restaurants for their fake spike in cases! Oh and blaming the young folks who go to bars!

Of course it doesn't help Dr foul-**** is hopping up the fake spike in numbers in Ohio and other states in the region!

Face it, they're just trying to March us right back into a shutdown! Everyone is suspicious that they are.

Reformedhippy
Posts: 10
Incept: 2020-07-01

Rural, OK
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I would suggest adding BioPerine (extract of black pepper) to the daily vitamin regimen. It is purported to boost bioavailability of the rest.
X5920014
Posts: 68
Incept: 2007-07-27

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@Tonythetiger - hospital is still a valid option from my point of view - if you set your limits and agree on what they will do to you - I just spent 8 days at the ICU @ Emory/Atlanta - I was first clear that I refused ventilator in any way - they agreed on my request - then they proposed a shot of Remdesivir - I refused it - this poison doen't work and even if it was working, I had a cytokin storm at this stage - an antivirus would not help me anymore. Finaly we agreed on a treatment with Steroid ( to stop the storm) - antocoagulant and vitamin C (to avoid a pulmonary embolism) - heated high flow oxygen. 36 hours after my first steroid injection and the use of heated high flow oxygen (this is a lot lot better than the wall oxygen as this is humid and not cold - it doesn't burn your nose and lungs) i was begining to improve.
8 days later, I was out...i am 56 and no health issues

note that this was my second time with covid ...first time i did not want to go to the hospital (i was in Brasil at the time and not confident on the local capacities) - i was not sure what I had and treated it like a regular flu with over the counter treatments - i spent the 10 worth days of my life - so I would suggest to go to the hospital with the protocol I just explained before if you arrive at the cytokin storm level.
I now understand that the first time was covid as all the symptoms were strictly identical to the second time. This also give me few hope we have any day a vacine as my imunity , if i had one, did not last more than 5 months....
My plan is to find hydroxychloroquine,zinc and azythromycine and use them as soon as i feel any small scratch in my throat...

Reason: orthograph issue
Tickerguy
Posts: 166190
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
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Two words: "Marik Protocol"

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If you will not force justice to be done by any means necessary when over 50,000 are murdered by political hacks from both parties do not complain or expect my help when you or someone you love dies at their hand. -- Me
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